New credit card guarantees. Restaurant list, policy & common questions in 1st post

[tarheelmjfan]

I couldn't agree more. I absolutely abhor the 180 day policy, but if I want to get ADRs at places like 'Ohana and others, I make my ADRs at 180 days. But I guess that's where I differ from those up in arms about the new policy. I find the 180 day thing eliminates flexibility a million times more than the new policy does. To me when you make those ADRs, that's when flexibility pretty much goes out the window - not the day of the ADR (or even the day before). But apparently, so many other people did not feel that way and instead they felt that there was no real obligation for them to fulfill their ADRs - until now I guess.






That's everything in a nutshell right there. I guess too many people want to have their cake and eat it too...or possibly let the cake go to waste simply because they got a little tired even though hundreds of other people could have had that cake.

It's funny how those of us for the policy see things so clearly one way, & those who are against it do the same. It's hard to imagine how the other person couldn't see it your way. It seems so obvious. We can argue this from now on, but we'll never agree on it. I guess that's human nature.

This really isn't personal to me. If it were, I'd say exactly how I feel about it, but I'll refrain. I really don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I don't come to the DIS to argue. It's usually not in my nature at all, but the posts on this thread have just struck a chord with me.

Basically, the way I see, if they could accommodate everyone that wanted to dine in a certain restaurant that day, I would see no need for this policy. Until they expand the restaurants to accomplish that, anyone who books it should be expected to show up. If not, they should incur a penalty (me included). Too many people would have liked to have had that ADR. They shouldn't have to take what those who book months in advance are willing to gift them by cancelling last minute & awarding them with a walk-up. It's humorous to suggest you're doing someone a favor by booking up the most desired ADRs, then letting them have your table, if you decide you don't want it at the last minute. To sum it up, until everyone can get what they want, people should stop booking in advance what they're not totally committed to. For some people CRT, Ohana, Chef Mickey's, or Le Cellier are their La Nouba or World Series. It's that important to them, or their child.

Some have stated that if you are a no sow, your table is being held with an ADR and cannot be given away. I am not sure this is correct. Believe me,I like Disney and want to support them, BUT, if they only hold a ressie for 20 minutes then the next walkup should be able to get my "NO SHOW" ressie. The luck of the draw for those w/out an ADR, maybe someone 20 min previously didnt get in, but at that time, there were no available table and since there was a NoShow, now there is. If there are so many of these NoShows that this policy needs to be implimented, then even if that "no Show" is late, another table should open up quickly when the next "NO SHOW" doesn't arrive.
Also If Disney want's to charge me $10 per person for, then they better not give that table to anyone else, after all, I paid for it! They put a value on it and charged me, so now it is mine. So if we have freinds in the park that day, and they see all the tables are filled during me ressie time, they shoudlnt charge me or they are profiting twice from one table.
hmmm, there is something rotten in the Disney Dining reservation system and it's their PolicyMakers! :

The problem is if they left the tables empty for even 10 mins. waiting for someone to show up, that time would add up quickly among all the tables in the restaurant. They would be backed up quickly & lose a lot of potential revenue. They want to be able to turn the tables as soon as it can be cleared.

DVCers book stays all the time just in case...I can see people doing it with ADRS.




And hundreds of other people can have MY cake....it is called a walkup! If I call and say I cant have MY cake then give it to another party...so simple! You make it seem that we are selfish bc we might not want or cant have a MEAL....I will say it again it is a meal folks not World Series tickets.

Anyone who sees it as just a meal & doesn't put importance on it probably shouldn't be booking it in the first place. There's hundreds of places at WDW to get a meal, if that's all it is to them.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Right, I get that. But my point is why does the fact that these people can't plan a vacation 6-months out trump my point that I can't foresee if my kid is going to get sick 6-months out?

People who are in favor of this policy like it because they see it benefiting them. People who are opposed don't like it because they see it hurting them.
My GUESS is Disney likes this policy because it makes them money.

It seems to me there's a way to make ALL parties happy.... don't charge people who call to cancel, but go ahead and charge the no-shows who don't cancel; advertise walk-ups; and don't release all tables to the 180-day window.

I'd say you're exactly right on all the points in the second paragraph. I'd also agree with the last paragraph, but I have a feeling we'd disagree on the time frame for the cancellation. That would go back to the second paragraph.

 

[Colleen27]

LOL Have you not read any of the posts explaining over and over and over and over..... why some people who don't abuse the system are indeed upset about these changes.

Just go back a few pages and read one of mine if you've really forgotten.

It is a difference in the definition of abuse, I think. All of us who have cancelled ADRs due to illness, travel delays, bad weather, just plain too tired or not hungry are abusers too, just of a different sort than the intentional no-shows. That, and a BIG dose of skepticism about exactly how common illness and transportation issues are at Disney World.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'd say you're exactly right on all the points in the second paragraph. I'd also agree with the last paragraph, but I have a feeling we'd disagree on the time frame for the cancellation. That would go back to the second paragraph.

Because it wouldn't be the most fair answer......... or because it wouldn't be what benefits you the most?

 

[Colleen27]

But here's what WOULD have made a difference: if Sci-Fi advertised, when I called a couple hours out, that a walk-up was available.

And that seems to be what Disney is trying very hard to avoid - for whatever reason, walk-up availability is not only not a priority, they seem to view it as a negative. They're not setting up a system that will make last-minute availability better; they're setting up a system that will more efficiently pack restaurants to the gills 180 days in advance, with potential for some day-prior availability, but continue to exclude the possibility of actual walk-ups.

 

[Colleen27]

The problem is if they left the tables empty for even 10 mins. waiting for someone to show up, that time would add up quickly among all the tables in the restaurant. They would be backed up quickly & lose a lot of potential revenue. They want to be able to turn the tables as soon as it can be cleared.

Except that ADRs aren't reservations. The table should never be sitting empty; if Family A hasn't yet checked in for their 6pm ADR they'll just seat Family B first even though their ADR is for 6:10. When Family A does check in they'll go to the top of the list, but in the meantime other families will continue to "line jump" them. The only reason tables would sit empty is if there are NO parties of an appropriate size for the table waiting to be seated at any given time. That's why the "no walk-ups in a half-empty restaurant" so completely defies logic.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Because it wouldn't be the most fair answer......... or because it wouldn't be what benefits you the most?

As I said, it went back to paragraph two. We're both seeing it from our own perspective. I'd be surprised, if everyone isn't. I don't think anything less than 24 hrs. is enough time to benefit anyone other than walk-ups, & those who want to cancel at the very last minute. It does nothing to help those who would call for an ADR wanting to plan their day around it. It also does little to discourage people from booking "just in case" ADRs.

Except that ADRs aren't reservations. The table should never be sitting empty; if Family A hasn't yet checked in for their 6pm ADR they'll just seat Family B first even though their ADR is for 6:10. When Family A does check in they'll go to the top of the list, but in the meantime other families will continue to "line jump" them. The only reason tables would sit empty is if there are NO parties of an appropriate size for the table waiting to be seated at any given time. That's why the "no walk-ups in a half-empty restaurant" so completely defies logic.

It doesn't make a lot of sense, but the tables have to be empty for a reason. Without working there I don't know, but it seems to me this policy has to have a least something to do with a no show problem. I'm not really sure how they do things, & try not to speculate. There may be something to the ADR system at the individual restaurants that we're not aware of. Again, I have no idea. I do know I've seen people turned away & several tables sitting empty, but I can't say for 100% sure why that was. I didn't ask.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

And that seems to be what Disney is trying very hard to avoid - for whatever reason, walk-up availability is not only not a priority, they seem to view it as a negative. They're not setting up a system that will make last-minute availability better; they're setting up a system that will more efficiently pack restaurants to the gills 180 days in advance, with potential for some day-prior availability, but continue to exclude the possibility of actual walk-ups.

I think you've summed their goal up nicely. They're trying for a more efficient system that they can predict as far in advance as possible.

 

[Colleen27]

It doesn't make a lot of sense, but the tables have to be empty for a reason. Without working there I don't know, but it seems to me this policy has to have a least something to do with a no show problem. I'm not really sure how they do things, & try not to speculate. There may be something to the ADR system at the individual restaurants that we're not aware of. Again, I have no idea. I do know I've seen people turned away & several tables sitting empty, but I can't say for 100% sure why that was. I didn't ask.

I really believe there's something going on there that none of us see. No-shows don't satisfactorily explain it; if it was just a matter of people who made ADRs not showing up there'd be no reason not to take walk-ups to fill those slots. Staffing doesn't provide a plausible explanation either, because certainly the cost of more staff pales in comparison to the potential for additional revenue. For some reason Disney doesn't seem interested in walk-up business, as evidenced not only by the empty tables in popular venues but also by the reports of being turned away at the podium only to log on/call and get an almost-immediate ADR for that very restaurant. And a 24hr/previous day cancellation policy is in keeping with that; a shorter window would mean tables could be filled via walk-ups but a full day gives time for them to fill those slots with ADRs instead. I can't imagine the why of not wanting/allowing walk-ups, though.

 

[NLD]

I really believe there's something going on there that none of us see. No-shows don't satisfactorily explain it; if it was just a matter of people who made ADRs not showing up there'd be no reason not to take walk-ups to fill those slots. Staffing doesn't provide a plausible explanation either, because certainly the cost of more staff pales in comparison to the potential for additional revenue. For some reason Disney doesn't seem interested in walk-up business, as evidenced not only by the empty tables in popular venues but also by the reports of being turned away at the podium only to log on/call and get an almost-immediate ADR for that very restaurant. And a 24hr/previous day cancellation policy is in keeping with that; a shorter window would mean tables could be filled via walk-ups but a full day gives time for them to fill those slots with ADRs instead. I can't imagine the why of not wanting/allowing walk-ups, though.

This is a really good point.

It's bizarre, isn't it?

It doesn't explain the reason, but it does seem in keeping with the general trend that seems to be underway with making a Disney vacation more and more scheduled, and less and less spontaneous.... continued reports of people saying CMs have told them the FP return time will be enforced, NextGen FP coming, afternoon parade FPs being tested. Momr2k (hope I got her screenname right) has suggested they're working in advance to get systems in place to deal with an influx in crowds when the FL expansion is done. The more I think about it, the more I think maybe she's right. (Even though I don't believe FLE is going to be the huge influx of crowds to warrant all this.)

Still though, that doesn't explain why the restaurants would be such an issue... even if FLE DID bring in gigantic crowds, I'm not sure how the restaurants tie in?

All I know is it's making me worry, as someone who puts a loose structure to our trips but would prefer to allow for some spontaneity within that structure.

Honestly I wish they'd go back to no ADRs at all. Maybe just ADRs for a few of the super-popular places.... CRT, Chef Mickey's, V&A, Cali Grill.... and go ahead and pre-charge at those if they want... but leave most of them alone and solely for walk-ups.

But they do seem to be headed in the opposite direction.

 

[mcd2745]

Right, I get that. But my point is why does the fact that these people can't plan a vacation 6-months out trump my point that I can't foresee if my kid is going to get sick 6-months out?

People who are in favor of this policy like it because they see it benefiting them. People who are opposed don't like it because they see it hurting them.
My GUESS is Disney likes this policy because it makes them money.

It seems to me there's a way to make ALL parties happy.... don't charge people who call to cancel, but go ahead and charge the no-shows who don't cancel; advertise walk-ups; and don't release all tables to the 180-day window.

I'm for this policy, but I don't see it benefiting me in any way. I make one set of ADRs - and keep them (and go to those meals). So I don't personally expect to see any benefit (or harm). I'm in favor of the policy because I think it addresses an issue that needed to be addressed. Many disagree, but I believe it will significantly cut down on the hoarding and will result in less empty tables and therefore is the right thing to do. If it were totally up to me, is this exactly how I would have addressed it? No. But, this is better than keeping things as they were.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Here's the thing, though: you have no way of knowing WHY a table is empty.

You're right, I don't. What's more, it doesn't matter to me. I don't own the restaurant (well, the teeniest, tiniest, most minuscule little bit of it - but not enough for any reason to matter to me).

But if the reason for the short-cancel/no-show fee is, as I suspect, multi-purpose - to get guests to show up for or cancel with reasonable notice ADRs they made (usually long) before arrival AND to make ADRs available same day to guests who didn't know they needed to or couldn't plan ahead - then it makes absolute sense.

I'm not talking about walk-ups, and neither is tarheelfan. Snurk71's 'test' calls to WDW dining indicate cancellations will be accepted online until just before midnight the day before without incurring a penalty. There was a lot of 'concern' earlier in the thread about disillusioning first or second time visitors - yet these are the guests most likely to need same day ADRs. Seems to me, having dining plan credits and not being able to use them would upset people even more.

 

[Colleen27]

All I know is it's making me worry, as someone who puts a loose structure to our trips but would prefer to allow for some spontaneity within that structure.

Honestly I wish they'd go back to no ADRs at all. Maybe just ADRs for a few of the super-popular places.... CRT, Chef Mickey's, V&A, Cali Grill.... and go ahead and pre-charge at those if they want... but leave most of them alone and solely for walk-ups.

But they do seem to be headed in the opposite direction.

It makes me worry too, and I am a planner. I travel with a pretty diverse group, ranging from my 60-something mother down to my 3yo DD, and that seems to up the odds that something unexpected like illness will get in the way of my best laid plans (and I am a planner - I have our daily touring plans for Jan already saved on my computer, but I won't print them until we're a week out because I know park hours may well change between now and then).

I wish they'd shorten the ADR window to correspond with the 45 cancellation penalty/package payoff date so that fewer people would be booking "on spec" for trips that they may or may not take, and that they would hold out some tables for walk-ups and leave the Fastpass system well enough alone. But you're right - it seems like Disney is going in the exact opposite direction and it is making WDW less desirable as a destination for my family. I don't want more structure and deadlines in my vacation than in my real life! We're thinking our post-Fantasyland expansion trip in the winter of 2013/4 may be the last for a while if these trends continue.

 

[mom2rtk]

This is a really good point.

It's bizarre, isn't it?

It doesn't explain the reason, but it does seem in keeping with the general trend that seems to be underway with making a Disney vacation more and more scheduled, and less and less spontaneous.... continued reports of people saying CMs have told them the FP return time will be enforced, NextGen FP coming, afternoon parade FPs being tested. Momr2k (hope I got her screenname right) has suggested they're working in advance to get systems in place to deal with an influx in crowds when the FL expansion is done. The more I think about it, the more I think maybe she's right. (Even though I don't believe FLE is going to be the huge influx of crowds to warrant all this.)

Still though, that doesn't explain why the restaurants would be such an issue... even if FLE DID bring in gigantic crowds, I'm not sure how the restaurants tie in?

All I know is it's making me worry, as someone who puts a loose structure to our trips but would prefer to allow for some spontaneity within that structure.

Honestly I wish they'd go back to no ADRs at all. Maybe just ADRs for a few of the super-popular places.... CRT, Chef Mickey's, V&A, Cali Grill.... and go ahead and pre-charge at those if they want... but leave most of them alone and solely for walk-ups.

But they do seem to be headed in the opposite direction.

FWIW........ I also agree that the crowds from the FLE won't be anywhere near what I think they are planning for. But I do the expansion was the first chapter in their answer to WWOHP and they could be hoping and planning for crowd issues similar to what Universal has dealt with.

I think the ADR change is in anticipation of all these new guests being angry at not being able to get tables at the restaurants they have heard so much about. There is nothing they can do to increase seating capacity except to maximize the tables there. (Nothing wrong with this, I just disagree with the way they are going about it).

They recently announced a firm adherence to the 3-12 age limit at the Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique. Once again, this is their only way of keeping the event as available as possible to all the new little patrons coming through the gates.

Add to this their testing of parade fastpasses, and I find myself wanting to be a fly on the wall in some of their planning meetings.

 

[Mkrop]

Right, I get that. But my point is why does the fact that these people can't plan a vacation 6-months out trump my point that I can't foresee if my kid is going to get sick 6-months out?

People who are in favor of this policy like it because they see it benefiting them. People who are opposed don't like it because they see it hurting them.
My GUESS is Disney likes this policy because it makes them money.

It seems to me there's a way to make ALL parties happy.... don't charge people who call to cancel, but go ahead and charge the no-shows who don't cancel; advertise walk-ups; and don't release all tables to the 180-day window.

wow common sense

It's funny how those of us for the policy see things so clearly one way, & those who are against it do the same. It's hard to imagine how the other person couldn't see it your way. It seems so obvious. We can argue this from now on, but we'll never agree on it. I guess that's human nature.

This really isn't personal to me. If it were, I'd say exactly how I feel about it, but I'll refrain. I really don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I don't come to the DIS to argue. It's usually not in my nature at all, but the posts on this thread have just struck a chord with me.

Basically, the way I see, if they could accommodate everyone that wanted to dine in a certain restaurant that day, I would see no need for this policy. Until they expand the restaurants to accomplish that, anyone who books it should be expected to show up. If not, they should incur a penalty (me included). Too many people would have liked to have had that ADR. They shouldn't have to take what those who book months in advance are willing to gift them by cancelling last minute & awarding them with a walk-up. It's humorous to suggest you're doing someone a favor by booking up the most desired ADRs, then letting them have your table, if you decide you don't want it at the last minute. To sum it up, until everyone can get what they want, people should stop booking in advance what they're not totally committed to. For some people CRT, Ohana, Chef Mickey's, or Le Cellier are their La Nouba or World Series. It's that important to them, or their child.



The problem is if they left the tables empty for even 10 mins. waiting for someone to show up, that time would add up quickly among all the tables in the restaurant. They would be backed up quickly & lose a lot of potential revenue. They want to be able to turn the tables as soon as it can be cleared.



Anyone who sees it as just a meal & doesn't put importance on it probably shouldn't be booking it in the first place. There's hundreds of places at WDW to get a meal, if that's all it is to them.

Please then tell me what it is then....it is a meal plain and simple...last time I checked if they serve food and you eat it from a plate...it is a meal. To try to elevate it or call it anything beyond that is silly. I dont care if the Pope is coming to dine...it is still a MEAL! It can be filet mignon or scrambled eggs, it is still a meal by definition.

And yes I can book elsewhere, but I dont like my choices being limited so I will voice my displeasure with the new system.

It makes me worry too, and I am a planner. I travel with a pretty diverse group, ranging from my 60-something mother down to my 3yo DD, and that seems to up the odds that something unexpected like illness will get in the way of my best laid plans (and I am a planner - I have our daily touring plans for Jan already saved on my computer, but I won't print them until we're a week out because I know park hours may well change between now and then).

I wish they'd shorten the ADR window to correspond with the 45 cancellation penalty/package payoff date so that fewer people would be booking "on spec" for trips that they may or may not take, and that they would hold out some tables for walk-ups and leave the Fastpass system well enough alone. But you're right - it seems like Disney is going in the exact opposite direction and it is making WDW less desirable as a destination for my family. I don't want more structure and deadlines in my vacation than in my real life! We're thinking our post-Fantasyland expansion trip in the winter of 2013/4 may be the last for a while if these trends continue.

Yep I plan but I worry too.

 

[DisneyFamily123]

Epcot. Extra magic hours 9pm-12. Carefully planned a 6:40pm ADR at Garden Grill. Planned to leave Epcot right after dinner (8pm - 8:30pm at the latest) before the 9pm illuminations fireworks so we could avoid the exit crowd and more easily get a bus so we could get DS to bed at a reasonable time and do an 8:30am character breakfast the next morning.

I would have picked a different evening for Epcot (avoiding EMH) but couldn't get Garden Grill another night that fit our schedule.

Arrived early for the 6:40pm ADR at Garden Grill. The CM was quite apologetic and honest with us that they were about an hour behind and didn't even have a pager to give us. This was during a not busy time of year so I don't buy the argument that Disney is losing money from empty tables. We were offered fastpasses for Soarin' so we did that and came back. Finally seated about 8pm.

So much for planning. We had to choose to either give up the Garden Grill ADR or the character breakfast... no way we could wait and still get up early the next morning. I'm not blaming Disney for seating us late, but I would be quite mad if I had to pay a penalty fee for missing the breakfast ADR.

However, our waiter (Patrick?) was very funny and made up for the long wait. The characters were a little boring compared to last year - maybe they were tired and worn out. Our waiter did offer to rush us out if we wanted to get out in time to see illuminations... we didn't care at that point. We planned on leaving before it anyway.

We got out of Garden Grill at 9:15pm... the exit crowd was alreading going to the buses (that would mean a long wait). But we didn't want to stay for magic hours either... we were already tired. But, instead of just waiting forever for a bus with the crowd, we did Spaceship Earth and relaxed for a few minutes before heading to the bus stop.

By the time we got back to the resort, it was near 10:30pm.... so much for our plan to get back early. Back at the resort, I'm trying to use my iPhone with a great deal of frustration with their web site to cancel and change our breakfast ADR. If I had known it were possible, I would have asked Garden Grill to cancel it for me.

I have to wonder why Disney allows ADRs 180 days in advance. I made ADRs for my last trip 180 days in advance but also changed them multiple times when Disney revised it's park schedule (hours, magic hours, fantasmic schedule, etc.). It was a waste of my time. Go back to 90 days.

I started a new page on this thread... who will be post #1000?

 

[mom2rtk]

Epcot. Extra magic hours 9pm-12. Carefully planned a 6:40pm ADR at Garden Grill. Planned to leave Epcot right after dinner (8pm - 8:30pm at the latest) before the 9pm illuminations fireworks so we could avoid the exit crowd and more easily get a bus so we could get DS to bed at a reasonable time and do an 8:30am character breakfast the next morning.

I would have picked a different evening for Epcot (avoiding EMH) but couldn't get Garden Grill another night that fit our schedule.

Arrived early for the 6:40pm ADR at Garden Grill. The CM was quite apologetic and honest with us that they were about an hour behind and didn't even have a pager to give us. This was during a not busy time of year so I don't buy the argument that Disney is losing money from empty tables. We were offered fastpasses for Soarin' so we did that and came back. Finally seated about 8pm.

So much for planning. We had to choose to either give up the Garden Grill ADR or the character breakfast... no way we could wait and still get up early the next morning. I'm not blaming Disney for seating us late, but I would be quite mad if I had to pay a penalty fee for missing the breakfast ADR.

However, our waiter (Patrick?) was very funny and made up for the long wait. The characters were a little boring compared to last year - maybe they were tired and worn out. Our waiter did offer to rush us out if we wanted to get out in time to see illuminations... we didn't care at that point. We planned on leaving before it anyway.

We got out at 9:15pm... the exit crowd was alreading going to the buses (that would mean a long wait). But we didn't want to stay for magic hours either... we were already tired. But, instead of just waiting forever for a bus with the crowd, we did Spaceship Earth and relaxed for a few minutes before heading to the bus stop.

By the time we got back to the resort, it was near 10:30pm.... so much for our plan to get back early. Back at the resort, I'm trying to use my iPhone with a great deal of frustration with their web site to cancel and change our breakfast ADR. If I had known it were possible, I would have asked Garden Grill to cancel it for me.

I have to wonder why Disney allows ADRs 180 days in advance. I made ADRs for my last trip 180 days in advance but also changed them multiple times when Disney revised it's park schedule (hours, magic hours, fantasmic schedule, etc.). It was a waste of my time. Go back to 90 days.

I started a new page on this thread... who will be post #1000?

This is where I think this policy is going to cause them endless trouble. It gives diners no wiggle room and enforces penalties. But it requires NOTHING in return.

 

[miprender]

This is where I think this policy is going to cause them endless trouble. It gives diners no wiggle room and enforces penalties. But it requires NOTHING in return.

Exactly.

And I didn't even know about BBB changing their age limit. I met a grandmother and her granddaughter this summer who both had it done.

 

[Colleen27]

Add to this their testing of parade fastpasses, and I find myself wanting to be a fly on the wall in some of their planning meetings.

I think the parade FPs are long overdue, actually; there are just too many people staking out their spots too early, and it really makes getting up and down the route difficult. If parade FPs can improve traffic flow by reducing the number of people camping out for hours for the perfect viewing spot I'm all for it.

 

[MELSMICE]

And I didn't even know about BBB changing their age limit. I met a grandmother and her granddaughter this summer who both had it done.

Not to get OT, but this has always confused me also. (or made me LOL!)