New Common Core math curriculum a disaster

[dis-happy]

I just had lunch with a friend this afternoon. The younger ds homeschools but the older dd attends a well regarded public high school. She said her dd started school this year being told that due to CC there would no longer be separate math classes of Algebra, Geometry, Pre-calc, etc. they would only be offered Math 1-2-3-4 for the four years of school and the previous classes would me meshed and integrated and cross over. Ie. Math 1 would have algebra and geometry mixed (but not as cleanly as saying it like that). Not sure if the entire US will be going to this method but it sounds terrible to me.

 

[DizBelle]

The Federal Department of Education & NEA were not responsible for developing the Common Core State Standards. The Common Core State Standards were developed through the National Governors Association (and the Council of Chief State School Officers). Each state legislature was responsible for deciding whether or not to approve the Common Core Standards for use in its state. They were approved by 46 states, although the implementation of the standards has been stalled in several of them.

Now, the NEA did vote to support the standards (although not the testing), but were not responsible for their development.

What you could reasonably say is that switching to Common Core did give states an excuse to not have 100% proficient students by the end of this year, as NCLB mandates. NCLB itself is a failure because 100% proficiency is not possible.

Sure it is. You just have to adjust your definition of "proficient".

 

[cobright]

The problem is, though, that we're all raising our kids to chase the same 20% or so of American jobs - the ones that require a college degree, pay a good salary, and don't involve unpleasant or dangerous working conditions. We're going into trillions of dollars to do it, not to mention alienating students who don't fit the college-prep mold.

I think you have a valid perspective, but I've been on both sides of this coin.

My family was always on the lower end of middle class. College was never discussed because we couldn't afford it. Since I wasn't going to college I chose non-college track classes because they were easier and more of the electives were things I enjoyed.

I graduated with a modest GPA and through a small fund set up by my great uncle before he died, I was able to begin college at the community college. And I found myself woefully out-gunned. I would have to take a dozen remedial courses just to get to the point where my math and science classes would count towards a degree. I was making good money working my way up the ladder repairing industrial machines at a factory so I quit college.

14 years later, after breaking most every bone in my body (not all at once) I decide to give up heavy machine repair and go back to school. I had to start from scratch and I racked up some debt, but now I have an advanced degree and I can provide for myself writing as an expert on several subjects, I can speak 3 languages, I can teach...

or I can go back and work on robots. I have options I never had the day I stepped out of highschool.

Look at what programs like Kalamazoo Promise do to graduation rates. Promise every kid they can have a college education if they want one and a lot of those kids who didn't fit the college mold suddenly do.

 

[Robbi]

Not every child tests well- even very bright children. This common core looks nuts. I've always been a "kids will excel if we expect them to excel" type person but this looks like a system dooming kids to failure. I have a 3 week old grandson and if this is the stuff he'll be subjected to, I'll ask my daughter if I can homeschool him. All of my kids have done very well as adults and they were at least partly homeschooled.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I just had lunch with a friend this afternoon. The younger ds homeschools but the older dd attends a well regarded public high school. She said her dd started school this year being told that due to CC there would no longer be separate math classes of Algebra, Geometry, Pre-calc, etc. they would only be offered Math 1-2-3-4 for the four years of school and the previous classes would me meshed and integrated and cross over. Ie. Math 1 would have algebra and geometry mixed (but not as cleanly as saying it like that). Not sure if the entire US will be going to this method but it sounds terrible to me.

I'm curious why you think this is such a terrible idea. I went to high school in 2 countries, first in an elite private high school in the U.S., where the top level honors classes were done this way, as a way of condensing 5 years of high school math into 4, and then in Canada where this was the way it was done for everyone.

It worked well for us. In Canada kids who were on level got a full year of Algebra in 9th, and then 10th and 11th had all the content from Geometry, and Algebra 2, but instead of doing one then the other there was half a year of each each year. It meant that kids didn't have a whole year to forget Algebra, and there was a little grade forgiveness for kids who struggled in one and excelled in the other. Instead of getting an A in Algebra 2 and a C in geometry, they could get B's in both.

I don't have a problem with the old way of doing it in the U.S. either, but I don't see this as some horrible newfangled idea.

 

[Colleen27]

I think you have a valid perspective, but I've been on both sides of this coin.

My family was always on the lower end of middle class. College was never discussed because we couldn't afford it. Since I wasn't going to college I chose non-college track classes because they were easier and more of the electives were things I enjoyed.

I graduated with a modest GPA and through a small fund set up by my great uncle before he died, I was able to begin college at the community college. And I found myself woefully out-gunned. I would have to take a dozen remedial courses just to get to the point where my math and science classes would count towards a degree. I was making good money working my way up the ladder repairing industrial machines at a factory so I quit college.

14 years later, after breaking most every bone in my body (not all at once) I decide to give up heavy machine repair and go back to school. I had to start from scratch and I racked up some debt, but now I have an advanced degree and I can provide for myself writing as an expert on several subjects, I can speak 3 languages, I can teach...

or I can go back and work on robots. I have options I never had the day I stepped out of highschool.

Look at what programs like Kalamazoo Promise do to graduation rates. Promise every kid they can have a college education if they want one and a lot of those kids who didn't fit the college mold suddenly do.

I think there's a lot of room between the curriculum currently being pushed (which in my son's HS gets every kid at least through trig/pre-calc before graduation) and being unprepared for freshman-level college work. My son will need more advanced math just to get out of high school than I'll have when I finish my bachelors. And that's on the lower/easier track; the college prep track runs through AP calculus.

I get that more education means more options, but I'm not convinced that makes obtaining that education on the traditional timeline a good investment for everyone. There's nothing wrong with going back to school to change fields as an adult, nor is there anything wrong with a career in the trades. Our county has a program that gives kids a chance to get through the first year of specific trade programs - CNC machining/programming, welding, CAD/CAM, automotive repair, and a few others - so that they only need 1 year at the community college to earn their associates in their chosen area. Will some of those kids go back to school when they're middle aged in search of less physical or more fulfilling work? Sure. So will some of the kids who get 4 year degrees in the field that interests them at 18 or 20. But now access to that program is limited because kids have to get all their graduation requirements out of the way in addition to taking the technical courses, and depending on the school's scheduling that isn't always possible.

As far as K-Zoo Promise, what have the long term success rates been? Are kids graduating from college or are they just giving it a shot because it isn't costing them to do so?

I have mixed feelings about the idea of making college universally accessible/affordable because the logical outcome of success in that endeavor would be reducing the worth of a four-year degree to not much more than a diploma is worth now - if almost everyone has one, it no longer sets you apart as more marketable to employers. I think a far better course of action would be to return to the idea of college as preparation for careers that require post-secondary skills, revive the idea of trade schools and vocational programs in high school, and try to deflate the college-spending bubble, but sadly I doubt we'll see any of that happen in our lifetimes.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

But a flood of CC textbooks is now hitting the market, and for some reason, our district picked this one.

One of the biggest no-no's is buying a textbook and having that textbook dictate your curriculum. Districts should create their own curriculum and then find resources that align to it.

 

[Help Please!]

I know get to teach all of my state standards (for music), along with state standards for theater and P.E., and NOW, I also (in 40 minutes per week), must also teach CC Math and CC Language Arts standards! What are they thinking???

 

[cheer25mom]

One of the biggest no-no's is buying a textbook and having that textbook dictate your curriculum. Districts should create their own curriculum and then find resources that align to it.

From what I understand, the accountability requirements for common core throw the idea that districts have options out the windows. They will be teaching to one of 2 test sets to meet the federal accountability guidelines. You teach to the test, or lose your funding.

 

[TeresaNJ]

This 100%. We have a serious lack of skilled tradesmen in this country. Not everyone can and should go to college. My Dad would hire 100 skilled welders today if he could, but the reality is that there are none to be found. College grads in business, english, history with no experience are applying in droves. They don't have the skills to do the job, and the skills they have are not in demand. Forcing kids to do college prep curriculium and get a degree, any degree, is not resulting in success. What those who are not going to be successful in that arena need is a solid skills based program that offers some type of certification option. My DH has a history masters and couldn't use it. He is a 3D structural designer, no degree required. He was lucky to get into a training program that paid him while he trained. Many aren't so lucky.

This! My DD, who has two degrees, one in art, and one in elementary education, cannot find a full-time job, & works part-time as an art teacher, so is putting off getting married to her fiance, who also has a degree in graphic arts, and cannot find a full-time job, and is unemployed at the moment. My bff's son, with a degree in finance, cannot find a full-time job, & works in a pizza restaurant. My other friend, who's son has a batchelor's degree in history and a Master's degree in education, cannot find a full time job, so subs and lives at home with his parents. My nephew, with a degree in accounting, cannot find a full-time job, lives at home and works at a golf course. My son, who did not go to college, but learned a trade, has a very good job, has bought a home, gotten married, has a toddler, with another baby on the way. Who was the dummy?

 

[Robbi]

This! My DD, who has two degrees, one in art, and one in elementary education, cannot find a full-time job, & works part-time as an art teacher, so is putting off getting married to her fiance, who also has a degree in graphic arts, and cannot find a full-time job, and is unemployed at the moment. My bff's son, with a degree in finance, cannot find a full-time job, & works in a pizza restaurant. My other friend, who's son has a batchelor's degree in history and a Master's degree in education, cannot find a full time job, so subs and lives at home with his parents. My nephew, with a degree in accounting, cannot find a full-time job, lives at home and works at a golf course. My son, who did not go to college, but learned a trade, has a very good job, has bought a home, gotten married, has a toddler, with another baby on the way. Who was the dummy?

My husband got an MBA in the mid 80's just when the oil slump hit our area. He ended up learning cabinetry and furniture making and did very well. Of all the people we know from high school, some of the highest earners have been those who went into trades as electricians, plumbers,
contractors, etc. They make as much money as our doctor and lawyer friends.
Vo-tech and other alternative forms of secondary learning, including apprenticing are things to consider. When we graduated, every college graduate who wanted a job was assured of getting one. It isn't like that anymore.

 

[minkydog]

Our school district has been flip-floopin on Math programs for years !

It seems like every year or so they roll out the new program.

At first, they just had regular math. The teacher taught the lesson/new concept. They did some pratice on the board. They did some pratice on worksheets. They did some pratice as homework. Regular normal math.

They they went to "new math" where anything and everything revoloved around drawing a diagram instead of just thinking with your head and using basic skills like addition, subtraction, etc. That used that for 2 very very very long years.

Then when those kids moved up to middle school, they couldn't do math ! So they had to re-teach the kids math using " Everyday Math " That was miserable, trying to teach 6-7th graders times tables, because they never mastered real math basics in elem school.

That didn't work out too well, so last year they went back to regular old fashion just plain math.

This year they changed it again and have moved on to Carnegie Math.

I like the one they are currently using. I've used it a few times with 6-8th grade RTI math and kids seem to grasp the concept a heck of a lot better. But we shall see

Ugh. I was taught "new Math" back in the 1960s. Is it any wonder I can't do math? My DD20 was in her freshman year of HS when Georgia decided to drop the old, normal math and take up something called "Maths." What a disaster. The teachers didn't teach it--they expected the students to try it on their own and aske questions if they got stuck. Poor DD was so overwhelmed she didn't even know what questions to ask! She faithfully went to tutoring for about 3 years, during which time she failed Algebra three times. She was in danger of not graduating on time, until a great teacher took her under her wing and showed her the ropes. DD went on to college and failed College math and College Algebra each one time. Eventually she did pass Math Modeling, whatever that is. Thankfully, her field (culinary) doesn't need a lot of math. Just the basics. As long as she can understand recipe measurements, add, subtract, divide and multiply, and keep her accounts she should be okay. Or she can do what I do and let the CPA handle her books.

 

[minkydog]

This! My DD, who has two degrees, one in art, and one in elementary education, cannot find a full-time job, & works part-time as an art teacher, so is putting off getting married to her fiance, who also has a degree in graphic arts, and cannot find a full-time job, and is unemployed at the moment. My bff's son, with a degree in finance, cannot find a full-time job, & works in a pizza restaurant. My other friend, who's son has a batchelor's degree in history and a Master's degree in education, cannot find a full time job, so subs and lives at home with his parents. My nephew, with a degree in accounting, cannot find a full-time job, lives at home and works at a golf course. My son, who did not go to college, but learned a trade, has a very good job, has bought a home, gotten married, has a toddler, with another baby on the way. Who was the dummy?

That's a sad commentary on where we are as a country. I know a lot of people who are working at jobs that have nothing to do with their degrees. The sad part is, some of these people were "downsized" during the recession and have been out of work for 3 years. At least 4 of them have taking early retirement in their 50s because they simply couldn't find work.

I was really happy with DD20 decided to go to culinary school at the local tech school. She was going to a 4-yr university, majoring in theater--which is great if that's what you really want to do, but there are a LOT of theater majors out there who work at the mall, at McDonald's, and Target (including 2 of her friends.) She's getting a great education and not paying an arm & a leg for it. When she graduates she'll have about $5,000 in student loans. She'll be able to find a job pretty easily and at least she'll never go hungry!

 

[superme80]

Ugh. I was taught "new Math" back in the 1960s. Is it any wonder I can't do math? My DD20 was in her freshman year of HS when Georgia decided to drop the old, normal math and take up something called "Maths." What a disaster. The teachers didn't teach it--they expected the students to try it on their own and aske questions if they got stuck. Poor DD was so overwhelmed she didn't even know what questions to ask! She faithfully went to tutoring for about 3 years, during which time she failed Algebra three times. She was in danger of not graduating on time, until a great teacher took her under her wing and showed her the ropes. DD went on to college and failed College math and College Algebra each one time. Eventually she did pass Math Modeling, whatever that is. Thankfully, her field (culinary) doesn't need a lot of math. Just the basics. As long as she can understand recipe measurements, add, subtract, divide and multiply, and keep her accounts she should be okay. Or she can do what I do and let the CPA handle her books.

My mom had the "new math" in the 60s as well. She is still complaining about it. I do not care for common core. Thankfully DH and I have chosen to homeschool our kids, so we get to pick the curriculum.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

From what I understand, the accountability requirements for common core throw the idea that districts have options out the windows. They will be teaching to one of 2 test sets to meet the federal accountability guidelines. You teach to the test, or lose your funding.

That's no different than what has been going on for the past few years with state standards. You have to cover the material required for students to be proficient in the standards used by the state, whether those are standards devised by the state or standards devised by the Common Core Initiative. How the standards are taught is not being dictated to teachers by the initiative. The state DOE may decide that, I suppose (in which case, that's a beef you should have with your state DOE). But the standards itself is just a list of competencies. That's it.

 

[cobright]

I'm curious about something...

Before we decide if Common Core is a good or bad idea, we should reach a consensus about whether or not the problem Common Core was designed to fix is really even a problem at all.

There is no doubt that a student in one City might graduate highschool better educated than a student from a different city. We all understand that this happens, right? So an honor roll student from Avondale might transfer to Utica (sorry, I'm from Michigan) and become a C+ student overnight, based only on his transferred work. A kid graduating from Detroit Public Schools could very well read (English) at a much lower grade level than a kid graduating in Tokyo, Japan.

We know that real life examples of these hypothetical happen. But is this issue really a problem?

Or, in a more open ended question format, at what point does this issue become a problem? I mean, the school district I came up in (Rochester Community Schools) was/is affluent and largely homogeneous demographically speaking. Is it a problem that I, as a far from exemplary student, and every other student entering highschool with my class (100% graduation rate) graduated with a better command of the English language than the average graduate of our cross-town rivals in Waterford?

I know it's a problem for the Waterford students when they compete for seats in colleges and limited scholarships and grants to attend them. But is this a problem for our society as a whole? One worthy of all this effort and hassle? Or is this simply the natural order of things that some of us get great educations, some of us get good educations, and some of us get lousy educations; and none of us really get to decide for ourselves what we get.

Is it a problem that a kid in Detroit that wants to grow up to be a doctor might be passed along with high marks right to the end and graduate with a 10th grade reading level?

If it's not a problem then I can see how someone could discount the need for a solution.

If it is a problem, then where does Common Core fail? The standards themselves, not the curriculum your school develops, not the textbook your school chooses to use, not the lack of interest in teaching a new program your school district displays.

How does requiring our students meet a set of specific minimum standards like the following (4th grade Math):

Grade 4 Overview

Operations and Algebraic Thinking
Use the four operations with whole numbers to solve problems.
Gain familiarity with factors and multiples.
Generate and analyze patterns.

Number and Operations in Base Ten
Generalize place value understanding for multi-digit whole numbers.
Use place value understanding and properties of operations to perform multi-digit arithmetic.

Number and Operations—Fractions
Extend understanding of fraction equivalence and ordering.
Build fractions from unit fractions by applying and extending previous understandings of operations on whole numbers.
Understand decimal notation for fractions, and compare decimal fractions.

Measurement and Data
Solve problems involving measurement and conversion of measurements from a larger unit to a smaller unit.
Represent and interpret data.
Geometric measurement: understand concepts of angle and measure angles.

Geometry
Draw and identify lines and angles, and classify shapes by properties of their lines and angles.

Mathematical Practices
1. Make sense of problems and persevere in solving them.
2. Reason abstractly and quantitatively.
3. Construct viable arguments and critique the reasoning of others.
4. Model with mathematics.
5. Use appropriate tools strategically.
6. Attend to precision.
7. Look for and make use of structure.
8. Look for and express regularity in repeated reasoning.Operations and Algebraic Thinking (4.OA)

That's what CC expects all kids to do by the end of 4th grade.

Is it a problem that a kids chance of being able to do all of this is so heavily influenced by where he or she was born?

 

[jodifla]

While what you posted sounds reasonable as far as listed goals, the boots on the ground, real life experience is different for those early adopter states.

And the teachers in Pontiac and Detroit aren't going to be able to teach this new curriculum any better than the old one.


Here's a principal in New York who was a big fan, then changed her mind when she saw the plan in actually in action at her school:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...3/04/principal-i-was-naive-about-common-core/


Principal: ‘I was naïve about Common Core’

" ...

I confess that I was naïve. I should have known in an age in which standardized tests direct teaching and learning, that the standards themselves would quickly become operationalized by tests. Testing, coupled with the evaluation of teachers by scores, is driving its implementation. The promise of the Common Core is dying and teaching and learning are being distorted. The well that should sustain the Core has been poisoned.

I hear about those distortions every day. Many of the teachers in my high school are also the parents of young children. They come into my office with horror stories regarding the incessant pre-testing, testing and test prep that is taking place in their own children’s classrooms. "

 

[jodifla]

Here are the testing results from New York: (and yes, it's true: Almost every child who is black, Hispanic or learning disabled fails.)

http://wfpl.org/post/kentucky-education-commissioner-responds-new-yorks-common-core-testing

Below is a summary of New York’s statewide 3-8 grade exam results:

31.1% of grade 3-8 students across the State met or exceeded the ELA proficiency standard; 31% met or exceeded the math proficiency standard
The ELA proficiency results for race/ethnicity groups across grades 3-8 reveal the persistence of the achievement gap: only 16.1% of African-American students and 17.7% of Hispanic students met or exceeded the proficiency standard
3.2% of English Language Learners (ELLs) in grades 3-8 met or exceeded the ELA proficiency standard; 9.8% of ELLs met or exceeded the math proficiency standard
5% of students with disabilities met or exceeded the ELA proficiency standard; 7% of students with disabilities met or exceeded the math proficiency standard

 

[Luv Bunnies]

DS15 just started his freshman year and is in the first high school class that will adopt Common Core. Students who are already on the Algebra 1/Geometry/Algebra II/Trig track will continue with it. Freshman who would have started with Algebra I were placed in International Math I.

At back-to-school night, the math teacher explained the class as being a combination of Algebra I and Geometry. Next year will be another combo class, so in two years they will have covered all of both courses. What surprised me is that there is currently no textbook and no written curriculum for International Math I. The teacher took a seminar over the summer, and must create his own curriculum until he is given the materials. Luckily, this is an experienced teacher and I got a sense that he could handle it. A first year teacher might have a lot of trouble being thrown into that situation.

The kids are required to do a lot of classroom discussion about the concepts and how they fit into the real world. A substantial part of their grade is based on their participation in the discussion. A lot of parents weren't happy about that. Usually, a participation score involves showing up on time, paying attention, turning in homework on time, etc. They complained that their kids are shy or not confident enough in math to speak up and their grades will suffer. The teacher explained that he isn't looking for right answers, just a reasonable attempt to join in. He said so far, there are only three kids in class who have no trouble speaking up and have been leading the discussion (my DS included, no big surprise there). The teacher is trying to get the other kids to come out of their shells and contribute, but they seem resistant.

The jury is still out for me on how well this is going to work for DS. Math hasn't always been his strongest subject, but he seems pretty confident with how and what this teacher is presenting. We'll see how it goes as we get further into the year.

 

[mom2rtk]

I find this discussion of integrated algebra/geometry interesting. My oldest is a junior in college. When he went through high school several years ago, they were doing an integrated series of courses. CPAG 1 and 2 (College Prep Algebra and geometry), probably 8th and 9th grade. 2 years later our second son went through and they were back to splitting the courses out with algebra, geometry, trig then Calc, all separate. I asked the teacher about it and didn't get many details but it was generally was not regarded as successful.