New AP system, blame yourselves!!

[Lewisc]

Abuse also includes the guests who never even purchased an AP but would if the CM at the resort demanded it. I prefer to use the term "loophole". I can't imagine Disney ever intended that a child, who isn't old enough to reserve a hotel room, would be using the AP for a room discount. The internet has made some of these strategies too well known and popular.

I have no problem if Disney wants to say one adult AP per room. Bookings are up, Disney doesn't need as many discounts to fill the rooms and it's a reasonable rule. I have no problem if they even want to require an active AP. Use the discount to encourage additional trips as opposed to just using it as a reason to purchase an AP.

I have a BIG PROBLEM with giving Disney an non-refundable deposit and a fee to change my reservation in order to reserve a room at rack rate, higher than an available AAA discounted rate. Those are the type of terms that are imposed when a customer is getting a discount, not just the possibility of a discount. If enough guests take Disney up on this speculative booking procedure Disney will have no reason to actually produce any discounts.

Part of me wishes Disney just goes to the extreme that some of the other hotels have gone to. Half price in exchange for full pre-payment at the time of booking with either no changes or limited changes allowed.

If I can't find a rate I'm happy paying I have no problems staying offsite. There are still plenty of resorts on PL for not much more than $100. Last minute stays I wind up getting a resort offsite for less than a value onsite. Very easy decision.

I've never seen this as an "abuse" system. These were the rules as Disney set them up (three rooms, one AP, even a child's AP, only needing voucher). Disney has those "rules" because that's what it took to rent rooms. Now they are finding success in other ways, and can change their rules. Some people will abuse the rules (6 in a room, and even inventing kids to get more meals). That's real abuse. The other was allowed by Disney..you didn't have to lie about it. If this works for Disney, they will stay with it. If not, they'll change it again. In any case, if it works for me, fine, I'll keep renewing. If it doesn't, I'll either take less than the 4-5 trips I take now, because of the Discounts, I'll stay off site, or I'll vacation elsewhere. I don't think it makes much sense to say.."blame yourselves" when people were following what Disney allowed. Disney needed to fill those rooms, those were their rules. Now they think they have found other ways. I'm not a person who has to stay on Disney property to feel the magic..my magic is when I go to the park, not the hotel. I stayed inside for the price..and I'll stay outside for the same reason..and usually I get a nicer and bigger room outside. So either way, it will work for me.

 

[DMRick]

Abuse also includes the guests who never even purchased an AP but would if the CM at the resort demanded it. I prefer to use the term "loophole". I can't imagine Disney ever intended that a child, who isn't old enough to reserve a hotel room, would be using the AP for a room discount.

In my opinion, the first would be abuse, if no AP was ever purchased or intended to be purchased. Also in my opinion, Disney accepted and ok'd a child AP, so I consider it neither cheating, abuse or a loophole. I asked via email, talked to the cm in the exectutive guest area and got a note from them...and it was allowed..not a loophole, allowed. I've actually never done this, but I defend the "rule obeying" people who did. now Disney will not be allowing it, and they have let it be known..and so it be. As I stated, they are now filling rooms, they aren't so desperate and they are changing the rules. Well within their rights. For myself, if it no longer is advantageous to stay on site, then I won't. as others have stated. If it hurts Disney, they will again change the rules, if it doesn't, they won't. I don't care what the rules are, as long as they are clear and enforced. I'll mak emy decision based on what's good for me, as will others.

 

[BoyLovesBuzz]

Abuse also includes the guests who never even purchased an AP but would if the CM at the resort demanded it. I prefer to use the term "loophole". I can't imagine Disney ever intended that a child, who isn't old enough to reserve a hotel room, would be using the AP for a room discount. The internet has made some of these strategies too well known and popular.

The notion that the person who is holding the pass had to be the one that made the reservation is the stuff of message board lore. The policy was that the passholder had to be staying in the room. Thats it.

 

[MagicKingdom05]

BoyLovesBuzz,

True that is what the policy use to be and that's fine. Disney seems to be trying to make it fair for everyone so now you must have 1 adult AP per discounted room and can only have 1 discounted room per AP. I guess they are trying to prevent people from booking multiple discounted rooms on 1 AP.

 

[Madi100]

I'm not sure what I think of this whole program. I now see that it is an added perk, not required. However, how many discounts are going to be available after the people who did the online version? My only problem with this new perk is the inability to be flexible and the the fact that I don't want to purchase my AP yet. I would like to wait a little bit closer to the trip so that if I decide to use it again I can use it at a time that would work for me.

I was planning on purchasing an AP for the sole purpose of saving money on the room. I'm not trying to take advantage of Disney just get the most for my dollar. Believe me, Disney gets plenty of my money. So, if I can save money by getting a discount on my room, great. If I can get a discount on a meal, great. They are still, in the end, getting my money. If I save money on a room, I'll spend more on souvenirs or meals. If I pay more for a room, I'll spend less on souvenirs. How many threads are asking "Should I stay at Value and spend more on food or stay at Deluxe and not do as many sitdown meals?" Was I going to be the only one in my room getting an AP? Probably. We had possibly thought of getting DH one and doing an adults only trip.

My sister is taking a trip with her parents, and my brother. (blended family) She needs a total of three rooms. How can she save the most money? Well, if you get an AP you can save on up to three rooms. So, that is her plan. These are the rules, nobody is trying to pull one over on anyone. Just following the rules.

I wouldn't think of trying to work around the rules. I'm a rule follower, but even more so at Disney. I agree that things change. I'm sure this will affect AP, because I think a lot of people get it to book more than one room. I'm glad, though, that they are finally doing something to keep track of the APs vs. the pretenders.

 

[keys2kingdom]

OK, since only an adult AP can be used to book a room, what would my friend do? She is a single mom with 4 children + 2 nephews currently in her custody. She must have 2 rooms. Period. With one adult AP.

Just making sure everyone knows about this. The passholder website is now saying that each adult passholder can have one room per reservation but that up to two different reservations are allowed. This would allow your friend to reserve 2 rooms at the passholder rate but she must pay 2 separate non refundable deposits. Looks like Disney is making concessions already.

 

[disneyfan67]

This change was comming for a while now. I'm sure Disney monitors the big fan websites like this and knew about all of the abuses and money saving loopholes people were using. Don't get me wrong, I love going to WDW and staying at the Polynesian but Disney doesn't want us fans in their regular resorts. They would love if all of us hard core fans would buy into the DVC and leave the regular one time vistor to pay rack rates for their resorts by buying MYW packages through Disney. I just was there in May and to tell the truth I'm tired of paying through the nose to stay at the Poly. I paid over $350.00 a night (ouch!) and at the end of the trip I wish I had used the money to buy into the DVC program.

I'm skipping going to WDW for the next two years so I can save up enough and buy into the DVC. That way I can go 2 times a year and have plenty of room and a kitchen. I did the tour and was impressed with the rooms and the layout. If the rumors are true about one of the garden wings at the CR being converted for DVC ownership, then I know where I'll be staying. Like it or not, Disney is a money making machine and now that the economy is good and travel is up, so there is no reason to offer any big discounts or loopholes to save money. This isn't the same theme parks or company that Walt ran back in the 50's and 60's and geared them toward all families reguardless of income. The Disney corperation knows it has a gold mine in it's theme parks and resorts, so why offer any discounts? I don't like it but what can we do as Disney fans? Not go to Disney theme parks anymore? Not much of a choice, is there?

 

[U2FanHfx]

How would you like to show how good you are in your first year? How about company revenue growth!

Regs,

CJM

 

[BoyLovesBuzz]

BoyLovesBuzz,

True that is what the policy use to be and that's fine. Disney seems to be trying to make it fair for everyone so now you must have 1 adult AP per discounted room and can only have 1 discounted room per AP. I guess they are trying to prevent people from booking multiple discounted rooms on 1 AP.

Yes I understand that. My comment was responding to the prevailing notion, on this and the 30 other threads on this topic, that this action was "abusing" or "taking advantage" of the system. Comparing legally using a child's AP to obtain a discount to lying about having an AP to get a discount is unfair.

 

[lsteadman]

I think families with less than one parent per three children are exceedingly rare. Personally, I couldn't fathom taking four children with me, alone. Perhaps, in recognition of such a feat of fortitude, they could make exception, on a case-by-case basis. To make that part of the policy would make it much too easy for the unscrupulous to capitalize on it.

Bicker, please don't take this the wrong way but where do you live that you only see "families with less than one parent per three children" and feel that this is "exceedingly rare." I live in the Minnesota by way of Wisconsin. I have lived in several cities and on several Military bases.

This is not rare and they do take their families to Disney as well. They don't stay deluxe but they do go to Disney. Not trying to start a debate just that the statement was WAY out there.

Note: I only have 1 DD but recently traveled with a Mom and here 5 boys to Disney in May.

 

[C.Ann]

The Disney corperation knows it has a gold mine in it's theme parks and resorts, so why offer any discounts? I don't like it but what can we do as Disney fans? Not go to Disney theme parks anymore? Not much of a choice, is there?

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Sure there's a choice.. Last I knew you could still stay off-site and gain entry to the Disney theme parks just like everyone else..

 

[Lewisc]

Just making sure everyone knows about this. The passholder website is now saying that each adult passholder can have one room per reservation but that up to two different reservations are allowed. This would allow your friend to reserve 2 rooms at the passholder rate but she must pay 2 separate non refundable deposits. Looks like Disney is making concessions already.

Disney will have to find a way to link the reservations. A single parent may need 2 connecting rooms and I didn't think that could be done with separate reservations.

 

[Madi100]

I think families with less than one parent per three children are exceedingly rare. Personally, I couldn't fathom taking four children with me, alone. Perhaps, in recognition of such a feat of fortitude, they could make exception, on a case-by-case basis. To make that part of the policy would make it much too easy for the unscrupulous to capitalize on it.

It is not rare to see a single parent with three children. My mother was a single parent with three children. My dad left in May (way back when). The very next month my mom flew us to California to go to Disneyland. Her reason? It might be the last time she could afford to take us on a trip like that. And, it was. While it is more popular to have fewer children, look around. There are still a lot of families having more than two children. With divorce rates so high it only makes sense that you will see single parents with three children or more, and they will do anything they can to take vacations.

 

[Buzz2001]

It was only a matter of time. AP holders, specifically those on this very message board, have cheated the system for years (booking many rooms to leave their options open, booking without a AP (or with a childs AP), booking at rack rate with no intension of keeping the room unless a AP rate comes out, calling 5 times a day everyday looking for discounts). Its been borderline insanity and now it may have completely ruined it for everyone who werent so *clever* and just wanted a discount, if its available. Well smart companies like Disney figure this out and implement changes to prevent customers from cheating their systems (one that allowed many of us to visit the resort several times a year). Well that could be over now and theres noone to blame but yourselves. This new system is a direct responce to the actions of those on this board, face it.

I think you have a valid point. Codes and such got so out of hand that a second board was needed to handle all the questions about when the codes would be out.

 

[SqueakyMouse]

AP holders, specifically those on this very message board, have cheated the system for years (booking many rooms to leave their options open, booking without a AP (or with a childs AP), booking at rack rate with no intension of keeping the room unless a AP rate comes out, calling 5 times a day everyday looking for discounts). This new system is a direct responce to the actions of those on this board, face it.

I have never posted anything like this but I am very offended by your remarks!!! I have never done anything like you have mentioned. In fact, we pay for our entire trip up front!! The only times I've called CR more than once was when there haven't been rooms available at the resort of our choice or a PS/ADR wasn't available at our restaurant of choice AND the CM's have told us when to try back. I am an anal retentive planner who wants everything to go just right. My bet is most of the folks on this board are much the same. If you find everyone on this board to be so inconsiderate why are YOU here?????

 

[cobbler]

I don't think the poster was saying this specifically to you or about EVERYONE on this board but in general. These things do happen and probably more so by the people on these boards than anyone else. Not everyone here does these things and everyone knows that but there are people who do.

 

[disneyfan67]

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Sure there's a choice.. Last I knew you could still stay off-site and gain entry to the Disney theme parks just like everyone else..

I was refering to boycotting Disney if you didn't like how they did things. You either accept how they do things or you don't. It's a free market and there is plenty of places that will gladly take your money. That's the point I trying to get across. Disney knows they have millions of people who will pay for their hotel rooms with no discounts available. It's a proven fact.


On the subject of staying off site. When I was at Disney for 8 days in May and stayed at the Poly, it was nice not having a car to worry about. It was a great feeling being able to walk out your hotel room and jump on a monarail and head to a park. When I was at the airport heading toward home I heard a bunch of people complaing about the heavy traffic during their stay. I thought, what traffic? I didn't have to worry about it and was'nt behind the wheel of a car for 8 days. That alone is the best benefit of staying onsite. No traffic, no worries, no problems.

 

[bicker]

Bicker, please don't take this the wrong way but where do you live that you only see "families with less than one parent per three children" and feel that this is "exceedingly rare."

I live in Massachusetts. Keep in mind that in the context of this discussion, children are those aged 3-9. 10 year olds must have an adult AP. I stand by my contention that the number of families with less than one parent per three children is exceedingly rare -- and remember the context within which I made that statement earlier -- they're rare enough that they could be handled as exceptions on a case-by-case basis.

Makes sense?

 

[disneyfan67]

I think you have a valid point. Codes and such got so out of hand that a second board was needed to handle all the questions about when the codes would be out.

I agree with you. I couldn't keep up with all of the codes and discounts anymore either. It was geting to be hard work to try and go on vacation so you could relax! LOL!

It's time to think about a DVC membership if you want to go several times a year. I'm working on trying to buy one myself.

 

[C.Ann]

I was refering to boycotting Disney if you didn't like how they did things. You either accept how they do things or you don't. It's a free market and there is plenty of places that will gladly take your money. That's the point I trying to get across. Disney knows they have millions of people who will pay for their hotel rooms with no discounts available. It's a proven fact.


On the subject of staying off site. When I was at Disney for 8 days in May and stayed at the Poly, it was nice not having a car to worry about. It was a great feeling being able to walk out your hotel room and jump on a monarail and head to a park. When I was at the airport heading toward home I heard a bunch of people complaing about the heavy traffic during their stay. I thought, what traffic? I didn't have to worry about it and was'nt behind the wheel of a car for 8 days. That alone is the best benefit of staying onsite. No traffic, no worries, no problems.

---------------

There are benefits to staying on-site and benefits to staying off-site.. On our last family trip to Disney we were there for two weeks, stayed off-site, had no traffic problems and were able to rent an entire cottage for the cost of a reduced-rate value room..

It's all a matter of how you want to spend your money, what's important to you in terms of benefits, and where you draw the line as to the "worth" of Disney rooms.. It would be great if I could get a room that I wanted on-site for the price I was willing to pay, but if I can't, I'm not going to boycott the parks just because I don't think the Disney Resort rooms are worth what they're going for.. Is that what you're suggesting that people do?