need to vent, church related issues

[kymom99]

I actually think the discussion has been very good, enlightening and without being offending.

It’s offensive to me because some constantly degrade Catholics. I am a practicing, active Catholic. I find myself being put on the defensive.

These threads go on for pages then get locked or deleted after the damage is done.

The original threads are rarely being addressed in these posts.

 

[HopperFan]

My husband and I are god parents to a niece and nephew on my side of the family over 15 years ago.....in what we called "going through the motions" catholicism. Where our family can't quite break from the traditions surrounding birth, communion....etc. DH and I were not married in a Catholic Church so couldn't qualify to be god parents as you have to complete all the relevant sacraments. But....no problem, we found a priest who would give us the certification for $500. Everyone has a price.

CRAZY!

But, given things we experienced no surprise.

I actually think the discussion has been very good, enlightening and without being offending.

And any comments that are "not flattering" have come from direct experiences.


I come from Jewish, Catholic and Methodist grandparents. I also took multiple religion classes in college.

I would guess MOST only know or have an understanding of what they were raised in. It is very enlightening to learn about the others to have a wider knowledge and understanding.

 

[sk!mom]

It’s offensive to me because some constantly degrade Catholics. I am a practicing, active Catholic. I find myself being put on the defensive.

These threads go on for pages then get locked or deleted after the damage is done.

The original threads are rarely being addressed in these posts.

First, I’m truly sorry that you are offended by this discussion.

Second, I think that reaction is another reason that participation in organized religion is waning. Churches (as a whole and individually) see the wane but rather than look inward to see what might need to change instead get offended that people are questioning the teachings and leaving.

Never fear this will no doubt be shut down soon. I’ve enjoyed the respectful conversation.

 

[Southernmiss]

I found the discussion honest and interesting and food for thought.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It’s offensive to me because some constantly degrade Catholics. I am a practicing, active Catholic. I find myself being put on the defensive.

These threads go on for pages then get locked or deleted after the damage is done.

The original threads are rarely being addressed in these posts.

My impression is totally different honestly.

I think even the discussion related to this denomination or that one is related to the OP's OP here. People can and do learn from other faiths.

My guess is you belong to a congregation that aligns with your values and how you want to serve your community but imagine if you didn't, would you not find statements that express that? And for those discouraged at their present congregation (like the OP) the sharing of thoughts and experiences, even negative ones, may help. The simple answer in a very complex topic is to find another congregation that better aligns with one's value but making that first step may be very difficult to do and hearing others leave (even if that means they left the religion entirely) can be comforting and encouraging to someone who is torn between what they want to do and what situation they find themselves in.

And I have found what other places do to serve their community interesting to hear about and could potentially inspire others.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

You need to figure out who is in charge of your church. It's either good people that want to make a difference abut may be set in their ways, or it's bad people hiding behind the bible. Once you figure out who they arr, then you know what you need to do. Best of luck. I am so sorry you are going through this.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

DH was asked to be a Godfather to a niece. The church asked for documentation to be filled out so they could determine if he had tithed enough money to the church. When is was insufficient they told the parents they would not permit him to be a Godfather.

I found it funny church had no problem showing their real selves but I felt bad for my brother and sister-in-law since they had to tell DH.

The church my mother raised us in refused to hold her funeral for us as the pastor didn't know us or my mother. We found a church we had never stepped foot in that helped us with love and graciousness so our mother could receive her final sacrament.

The church we were raised in holds nothing but grief for us now, we cringe when we drive by.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

It’s offensive to me because some constantly degrade Catholics. I am a practicing, active Catholic. I find myself being put on the defensive.

These threads go on for pages then get locked or deleted after the damage is done.

The original threads are rarely being addressed in these posts.

Please don't feel defensive. I know many, myself included, can paint with a broad brush. I am sure you're a good person and if you find great comfort in your chuch and faith then I am happy for you, please don't let anybody make you feel bad. HUGS!!!!!

 

[Marrila]

The church my mother raised us in refused to hold her funeral for us as the pastor didn't know us or my mother. We found a church we had never stepped foot in that helped us with love and graciousness so our mother could receive her final sacrament.

The church we were raised in holds nothing but grief for us now, we cringe when we drive by.

I am glad you all found a church that was loving and gracious to your grieving family.
This should not be hard. Being kind and caring to those who morn is a pretty basic part of decent life.

 

[lovesmurfs]

The church my mother raised us in refused to hold her funeral for us as the pastor didn't know us or my mother. We found a church we had never stepped foot in that helped us with love and graciousness so our mother could receive her final sacrament.

The church we were raised in holds nothing but grief for us now, we cringe when we drive by.

Same with my parents' "home" church and my father (Presbyterian). He had the bad timing to pass during Holy Week, and the pastor that they had been with for 20 years (my parents moved 5 years before he passed) refused to do his funeral service, which was going to be at the funeral home the Wednesday after Easter. So much for all of the volunteering and ministering that my parents did during that time. They even refused to include the visitation and funeral information in the bulletins.

We found another pastor at a completely different denomination (Methodist), from a recommendation of the funeral director. He met with us for over an hour, and it was truly a blessed funeral. He did a fantastic job, and no one would even have known he didn't know Dad (if he hadn't admitted it!). Fortunately, we're not in the area any longer, but I know I'd feel the same as you if I had to drive by.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

Same with my parents' "home" church and my father (Presbyterian). He had the bad timing to pass during Holy Week, and the pastor that they had been with for 20 years (my parents moved 5 years before he passed) refused to do his funeral service, which was going to be at the funeral home the Wednesday after Easter. So much for all of the volunteering and ministering that my parents did during that time. They even refused to include the visitation and funeral information in the bulletins.

We found another pastor at a completely different denomination (Methodist), from a recommendation of the funeral director. He met with us for over an hour, and it was truly a blessed funeral. He did a fantastic job, and no one would even have known he didn't know Dad (if he hadn't admitted it!). Fortunately, we're not in the area any longer, but I know I'd feel the same as you if I had to drive by.

I am so sorry you went through the same thing. Did it feel meant to be in the end? The right people honored our mom in the end because it was people within the community that absolutely were doing it for their pure love of people in their time of grief, The people that helped us were amazing and like you it just felt like they knew our mom. They spent so much time talking and learning but also ...we could see their pain for us. We were strangers! Where did their pain come from when others did not have pain for us? In the end it was beautiful and they sent us a beautiful card on the anniversary of her passing. So they really did all they could to make up for it all. Beautiful people can do amazing things.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

Because no means no and should be respected.

For me, it started in elementary school. As the only Jew in my school, I didn't understand why I knew about Christmas but my classmates had no idea about my faith and holidays. Some of the anti-semetic things I heard on the school bus are wild when I think back. One of the worst offenders wanted to catch up during a reunion and had no idea that he'd ever done anything wrong towards me.

In high school came the youth group sneak attacks. Get invited to a Halloween party with a "haunted house" and it wasn't until we got there that I was told it was a church event and the haunted house scenes were all about how non-believers were going to hell. Most others after that I was able to sniff out in advance and pass on.

I now attend weddings and funerals in churches with a bit of trepidation. About half have been fine. The other half involved a sermon about how I'm going to hell and my loved ones are going to hell for not sharing in the same beliefs. I firmly believe that those types of events should be used to sell your organization, but in a positive way, not telling visitors how horrible they are.

I haven't been able to take the High Holidays off for years because I'm a government lawyer. Judges outright refuse to schedule around those days and the DEI department of the county I work for has given me the super unhelpful advice of just continue to ask nicely. But they also cancelled the menorah lighting ceremony this year even though we had about a dozen Christian focused caroling events in the county building as usual.

No, not all of this is outright recruitment. But when I am recruited or asked where I go to church or told to have a blessed day or am gaslit by fans of Christian rock bands that the bands aren't Christian based, it gets OLD.

I am genuinely frightened for my safety and the safety of my LGBTQ family should the Christian nationalists in politics get their way. Perhaps I will be lucky because I don't *look* Jewish. But do not tell me I'm overreacting when the number of anti-Semitic comments and attacks and pro-Nazi protests are increasing by a shocking amount in my community.

These incidents are certainly on the rise. My state is 6th in the nation for anti-semitic incidents and we're considered one of the most liberal in the country.

I am not religious and I simply don't understand the intense fervour that religious people have for whatever/whomever they worship. But it's interesting to see so many points of view.

 

[PollyannaMom]

They don't want to host...alcoholics anonymous because they don't want people with "that kind of problem".

That right there would probably be the last straw for me. I'd explore other options.

 

[Chili327]

First, I’m truly sorry that you are offended by this discussion.

Second, I think that reaction is another reason that participation in organized religion is waning. Churches (as a whole and individually) see the wane but rather than look inward to see what might need to change instead get offended that people are questioning the teachings and leaving.

Never fear this will no doubt be shut down soon. I’ve enjoyed the respectful conversation.

I found the discussion honest and interesting and food for thought.

I am not religious and I simply don't understand the intense fervour that religious people have for whatever/whomever they worship. But it's interesting to see so many points of view.

Conversation has lost its way, people have to be comforted instead of challenged, & it leads to participation trophys & people not being able to take a loss or take bad news, or many realities in life. We all need to have conversations, & discussions otherwise we're doomed to head further down one groups way of life over another. (there is no "One Way" to live)

It all started with the printing press.

*edit*
And just to stay on topic, OP yes you might want to look into something new.

 

[lovesmurfs]

I am so sorry you went through the same thing. Did it feel meant to be in the end? The right people honored our mom in the end because it was people within the community that absolutely were doing it for their pure love of people in their time of grief, The people that helped us were amazing and like you it just felt like they knew our mom. They spent so much time talking and learning but also ...we could see their pain for us. We were strangers! Where did their pain come from when others did not have pain for us? In the end it was beautiful and they sent us a beautiful card on the anniversary of her passing. So they really did all they could to make up for it all. Beautiful people can do amazing things.

Yes, absolutely. In the end, we were so glad it all worked out the way it did.

 

[JLTraveling]

The church my mother raised us in refused to hold her funeral for us as the pastor didn't know us or my mother. We found a church we had never stepped foot in that helped us with love and graciousness so our mother could receive her final sacrament.

The church we were raised in holds nothing but grief for us now, we cringe when we drive by.

We had a sort of similar experience. My mom passed away in New Orleans, but she grew up in Florida. We were not affiliated with any church in New Orleans, but by law the funeral had to be conducted by a member of the clergy. So we found a wonderfully welcoming Unitarian church. The minister met with us for maybe 30 minutes and then performed a stunningly beautiful ceremony.

My extended family insisted on a second funeral in Florida, at the church my mom was raised in. The minister never bothered to meet with us at all (my grandmother still attended that church, and gave him the basics). The service was cringeworthy, to say the least. It was like he was talking about a totally different person. That left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth.

 

[ronandannette]

We had a sort of similar experience. My mom passed away in New Orleans, but she grew up in Florida. We were not affiliated with any church in New Orleans, but by law the funeral had to be conducted by a member of the clergy. So we found a wonderfully welcoming Unitarian church. The minister met with us for maybe 30 minutes and then performed a stunningly beautiful ceremony.

My extended family insisted on a second funeral in Florida, at the church my mom was raised in. The minister never bothered to meet with us at all (my grandmother still attended that church, and gave him the basics). The service was cringeworthy, to say the least. It was like he was talking about a totally different person. That left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth.

What? How on earth could there be such a law, let alone it be enforceable? Please explain, if you don't mind - I'm fascinated. Sorry for you, and anyone, who has any degree of difficulty added, no matter what the cause, at an already sorrowful time.

 

[sk!mom]

We had a sort of similar experience. My mom passed away in New Orleans, but she grew up in Florida. We were not affiliated with any church in New Orleans, but by law the funeral had to be conducted by a member of the clergy. So we found a wonderfully welcoming Unitarian church. The minister met with us for maybe 30 minutes and then performed a stunningly beautiful ceremony.

My extended family insisted on a second funeral in Florida, at the church my mom was raised in. The minister never bothered to meet with us at all (my grandmother still attended that church, and gave him the basics). The service was cringeworthy, to say the least. It was like he was talking about a totally different person. That left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth.

I’ve been to so many cringe worthy (to me) clergy led funerals. Funerals where the clergy turns it into more of a sermon rather than a celebration of their life and comfort for those who loved them. I always wonder if this is what the deceased or family wanted. If it is and they are comforted, then it’s fine. It’s not about anyone but those closest.

I have noticed more and more people not having a traditional funeral. It seems that the need to wait or plan something very small during the worst of Covid empowered people to step away from traditions. I frequently see now “service to be held later” or “family grieving privately.” It seems positive to me for people to realize that they do not have to buy into spending a fortune unless they want to.

I went to a celebration in a beautiful park where we shared a meal, listened to favorite music, and then shared memories. It felt meaningful and comforting. It was held 4 months after they passed on the deceased’s birthday.

A lot of change in organized religion in recent years. I predict more coming as most congregations are aging and gen X, millennials, gen Z do not seem to see much value in the machine of organized religion.

 

[maxaroni]

We have had several personal issues with the church through the years. The one that hurt me the most was when my mom was in hospice. We knew the end was near, dad called the Catholic Church that they belonged to and was told that no one was available to come for last rights. We were not in the position to be calling around to other churches, trying to navigate through my mom’s last hours. The church never said anything about calling around to other churches in the area to come over, nothing. My mom passed away that night, the church called the following day and said someone could come over later that day. Sorry, too late.

 

[JLTraveling]

What? How on earth could there be such a law, let alone it be enforceable? Please explain, if you don't mind - I'm fascinated. Sorry for you, and anyone, who has any degree of difficulty added, no matter what the cause, at an already sorrowful time.

I wish I could explain. New Orleans is governed by Napoleonic code rather than case law like the rest of the United States. What that means exactly, I'm not entirely sure. But the result is some incredibly wacky laws.