"Naked" X-Ray Scans At The Airport.. Your Thoughts?

[sbell111]

The program to arm pilots has recently been defunded by the present administration.

The program certified pilots, not 'armed' them. It is my understanding that those pilots that have been certified can still carry.

Also, I noticed that you failed to comment on the issue of accidental discharges.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

The proccess of getting your conceal carry permit is a lot more invloved than a body scan.

But there is NOTHING stopping a terrorist or someone with any malintent in getting one, just time, which we have seen first hand, they are willing to devote (actually attending flight school, etc.).

 

[legalsea]

Frankly, I think it very unlikely that an airplane can be made completely safe from terrorist attacks. True, it can be made more difficult for a terrorist to board the plane with weapons, etc., but the checked-in luggage will probably remain a weak point. I guess that to solve that problem the airlines will have to prohibit all luggage, whether checked-in or carried on.

I also think that the biggest future threat will be the use of surface-to-air missiles fired from vehicles close to the airports. What do we do then? Close down all highways within a five mile radius of the airport?

 

[jlewisinsyr]

And.......???

Never bring a knife to gun fight comes to mind

WOW, seriously do read what people write before you post? There is nothing saying the terrorist couldn't have been the ones with the gun.

In the end though this whole conversation is moot, guns outside of airmarshalls will never be allowed legally on a plane, there is no person at the level required to make this policy change decision (even under Bush) that would ever support this!

 

[FireDancer]

You are not only suggesting it, you have just written that some CCP holders are terrorists. Why would a TERRORIST obtain a CCP? Why would a terrorist
concern him or herself with following the laws of this country prior to committing acts of terrorism/Jihad?

I find it interesting that since 9-11 some pilots have chosen to carry a firearm onto the plane now that they have the option. If I had to fly, and I were given the choice, I would certainly choose the armed pilots' plane over the unarmed.

Well, if weapons were allowed on a plane with a CCW a terrorist could get one to bypass having to smuggle it on. I agree that most gun laws just hurt the legal gun owners and not the criminals but this is a situation in which it could help them. Of course going through the background check could expose them, but that is a big could.

A pilot having a gun won't stop a bomb. Protocol is that the door stays locked so the pilot having a gun is for the protection of the cockpit if the door is breached. If a terrorist is in the passenger compartment the pilot won't shoot him because he will not open the door, that stays closed and locked while in flight post 9/11.

 

[shrubber]

They had rudimentary weapons (plastic knives and box cutters), not weapons that you are referring to. Bringing a projectile shooting weapon would have made it much, much worst.

How on God's green earth could it have been worse?

 

[shrubber]

A conceal carry permit is issued as a right protected by the second admendment as a citizen of the US.

By default, none of these terrorists could even apply.

When was the last time you heard of an American hijacking or attempting to blow up an airplane?

 

[jlewisinsyr]

How on God's green earth could it have been worse?

I rest my case that you don't read:

I can think of 1,000s of ways it could have been worst (the terrorists could have been those with the weapons) and they could have subdued the passengers further, completing the attack on ALL of their targets.

Remember, offering the ability to bring weapons on a plane (even with a permit) opens the doors to both the good and the bad. And remember, the bad, usually have less concern with their own safety as completing their objective, where the good are going to look to save lives.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

A conceal carry permit is issued as a right protected by the second admendment as a citizen of the US.

By default, none of these terrorists could even apply.

When was the last time you heard of an American hijacking or attempting to blow up an airplane?

Yes, because there have not been attacks committed on US soil, but US citizens...OK Bombing sound familiar? Terrorists would just change their tactics, trust me there are enough disturbed people who are US citizens that could be convinced to do what they want.

 

[shrubber]

I rest my case that you don't read:

Seriously, I don't understand. They could have been subdued further? They were all killed for God's sake.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

Seriously, I don't understand. They could have been subdued further? They were all killed for God's sake.

Lets try some basic reasoning. The passengers were subdued on the PLANES where they passengers tried to take back control. The planes then hit their intended targets, killing not just the passengers of the plane, but also those in the intended target!

 

[wvjules]

I skipped from page 22 to ask a question...

If these scanners were in place on Christmas day and you can either choose to go through it or have a pat down, and the would-be-bomber chose the pat down...tell me again just what exactly would have it prevented? (using the assumption that they chose the crotch location to beat a pat-down.)

 

[sbell111]

You are not only suggesting it, you have just written that some CCP holders are terrorists.

No, I didn't. Please reread my post and the earlier one, if you don't mind.

That being said, it should be mentioned that Al-Qaeda doesn't own the patent on terrorism, as those in Oklahoma City can attest. Do you believe that absolutely no American militia members hold CCWs? Do you further believe that none of them would/could obtain one?

Why would a TERRORIST obtain a CCP?

So he would be able to carry a firearm on board the airplane, of course (in shrubber's scenario).

Why would a terrorist concern him or herself with following the laws of this country prior to committing acts of terrorism/Jihad?

If it would further their plans, I'm quite certain that terrorist would happily follow just about every law we have on our books.

I find it interesting that since 9-11 some pilots have chosen to carry a firearm onto the plane now that they have the option. If I had to fly, and I were given the choice, I would certainly choose the armed pilots' plane over the unarmed.

Even the previously referenced USAir flight?

I used to work in the airline industry and I know many, many commercial pilots. I can think of lots of them that I wouldn't choose to fly with armed or unarmed. Add guns to the mix and the list increases greatly. (It should be noted that I am very much pro-gun.)

 

[shrubber]

Yes, because there have not been attacks committed on US soil, but US citizens...OK Bombing sound familiar? Terrorists would just change their tactics, trust me there are enough disturbed people who are US citizens that could be convinced to do what they want.

OK Bombing and these terrorist attacks are apples and oranges.

 

[FireDancer]

Yes, because there have not been attacks committed on US soil, but US citizens...OK Bombing sound familiar? Terrorists would just change their tactics, trust me there are enough disturbed people who are US citizens that could be convinced to do what they want.

Exactly. John Walker was an American born citizen that went over to the other side. Unfortunately I'm sure there are Americans who could be turned. The London subway bombings in 2005 were carried out at least partially by UK born citizens.

As we come up with countermeasures the terrorists will come up with ways around them leading us to come up with more counter measures or to rethink the current ones. That doesn't mean you throw up your hands and give up but it does mean that when implementing solutions you have to try and think of how they can counter them and preempt it instead of wait for it to happen and respond.

 

[sbell111]

The proccess of getting your conceal carry permit is a lot more invloved than a body scan.

Sure, but certainly you are not suggesting that a person with terrorism in their heart could NEVER obtain a permit.

 

[shrubber]

Abdul Mudallad could not get a CC permit........

 

[jlewisinsyr]

OK Bombing and these terrorist attacks are apples and oranges.

No, their not. Not at all, terrorists will seek out ways to acheive their goals, we have seen it, tried and true, every day.

Please explain how in any sound mind they are different. Both attempt to disrupt life, to take out their hate, and do so by planning. They will seek out ways to use advantage and cohersion to obtain success. If we can see attacks on our own soil by our own citizens, there is little to prevent terrorist groups from infilitrating our borders, making citizens of the US our next terrorist.

We have already seen them recruit US citizens to their part of the world, it will only be time until they do so (if they haven't already) under the radar.

 

[sbell111]

Abdul Mudallad could not get a CC permit........

With the proper planning, many members of Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations (and non-affiliated terrorists) could get such a permit.

 

[shrubber]

Sure, but certainly you are not suggesting that a person with terrorism in their heart could NEVER obtain a permit.

Well, certainly not.
However, the realization that there are likely to be many people aboard the plane other than yourself that are armed, rather than the scenario that we have now, certainly makes things extraordinarily more difficult for a would be terrorist, doesn't it?