My Timeshare Better Than DVC?

[spiceycat]

Westgate is a nightmare to try and get out of their contracts.

contact the florida attorney general NOW and the BBB.

http://www.myflorida.com/dbpr/lsc/timeshare/index.shtml

http://www.orlando.bbb.org/newsearch2.asp?ComID=073300101774

oh if you want a good laugh - in this website is a sales person trying to defend Westgate.

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Battlefield/8949/

Westgate is very, very, very well known for the hard sell.

try your best to get out of the contract. if you can't (and kept trying) then Westgate is a nice resort. the problem the sales people kept trying to get you to buy more. Expect every trip to their resort to be hassled to buy more.

believe me I know I make the mistake once of buying Westgate _ NEVER, NEVER again.

if you have a fixed week great. then you can use their site to make your reservations - most places don't require their owners to make a reservation for a fixed week - Westgate DOES!!!

if you have a floating week - then guess what you get a bunch of extra charges.....One guy with a floating week tried to get one in the summer at another resort - Westgate actually wanted to charge him $500 (?) for this exchange.....

you can exchange through II for far less. but you must have a week at westgate before you can exchange it.

if you want to know how to get around some of the extra charges that Westgate will try to tack on you

www.tug2.net

they really are sharks.

thank goodness that DVC does not do business this way! I DVC - hate Westgate.

oh by the way one night I got a phone call from someone who had seem my posts on both dis and tug - asking me why I hated Westgate.....considering that I have never listed my name (the one in the phone book is different) - he could only have found me though things that I aren't quite legal......

good luck!

I really hope you can get out of Westgate - they are a BIG pain!!!

 

[joepoe]

Don't let them hold you hostage till the cooling off period is over!!! You know..."oh we sent it...you haven't received it?" and "I faxed it to you", until day 11 when you will hear "I'm sorry , but you are beyond your 'cooling off' period". Keep on them and involve an attorney if necessary.

As far as how many points for DVC...buy the amount you can afford. When DH & I first purchased, we bought 200 points and figured that would give us about 3 weeks in a studio, less time the bigger the unit size went. Also look at the time of year yuou generally go. If you go at a "premium" time of year, you'll need more points.

Your guide hsould be able to help you flesh it out. I find the DVC guides to be wonderful, helpful, and not at all a pushy hard sell.

I thought the law was they had to give you a copy of the rescind letter when you purchased??

 

[Kerry Dig]

Do you own a week at westgate? I own every other year since 91. I would stay there when my kids where very young. Now that my kids are a little older, we have stayed inside Disney, now they want to stay there all the time, we really got the taste of staying inside Disney. So now im in the process of buying 200 pts. I really would never stay at westgate again...but im planning on using that week, when we want to go other places. If i could sell it i would, but dont know how to go about that, i dont want to get soaked up with up front costs. So thats why we decided just to use it on other vacations, other then Disney. We really did get use to having a villa, instead of hotel rooms and there are great resorts threw II we could get.

 

[spiceycat]

kerry - I own a Westgate Villa there trade value has gone down, down - I can get the same week same villa with my South Africia using RCI. my SA cost $500 - my westgate cost $7,000 - it is an every odd year.

I actually found several buyers last year. I called Westgate to find out how much they now charge to change the owner. I tried and tried and tried for around 6 months.....I got send to this number, they told me I had to write this person, this person told me he couldn't help because my villa was paid off and needed to get in touch with so and so, etc.

about my 10th person I gave up.

I am considering writing to Florida attorney general to see if he can get the information out of Westgate.....

Westgate had no reguard for their owners at all. they treat them horrible. As you will find once you are a DVC member.

Westgate gives alot of money to any business or non-profit than can cause them trouble. Even so some states have refused to give Westgate a license based on consumer complaints.

 

[greenban]

kerry - I own a Westgate Villa there trade value has gone down, down - I can get the same week same villa with my South Africia using RCI. my SA cost $500 - my westgate cost $7,000 - it is an every odd year.

I actually found several buyers last year. I called Westgate to find out how much they now charge to change the owner. I tried and tried and tried for around 6 months.....I got send to this number, they told me I had to write this person, this person told me he couldn't help because my villa was paid off and needed to get in touch with so and so, etc.

about my 10th person I gave up.

I am considering writing to Florida attorney general to see if he can get the information out of Westgate.....

Westgate had no reguard for their owners at all. they treat them horrible. As you will find once you are a DVC member.

Westgate gives alot of money to any business or non-profit than can cause them trouble. Even so some states have refused to give Westgate a license based on consumer complaints.

Hey Spiceycat, slightly off thread......could you explain your first paragraph to me (the ONLY timeshare I own is DVC, so I'm not clear on even and odd, red weeks!?!) Do you own a South African Timeshare that cost $500.00 compared to 7K for westwood?


To the OP.

Best of luck! We're pulling for you!

-Tony

 

[PoohD]

We bought 300 DVC points so we could get a two bedroom during the school vacation periods. We love the flexibility. We are going down for two nights in Dec. to a one bedroom at OKW, two nights again at OKW in April and then traded a week in Colorado in June (which was less than 200 pts.). We aren't stuck to the same week every year and we can use a few days at a time if we want. Eventhough we bought into Saratoga Springs, we like Old Key West because there is more space and it uses the fewest points. We do have to pay close to $1000 a year for maintenance but the price of a unit with two bedrooms, a living room and two baths sure beats a hotel room.
I hope everything works out for you.

 

[spiceycat]

Hey Spiceycat, slightly off thread......could you explain your first paragraph to me (the ONLY timeshare I own is DVC, so I'm not clear on even and odd, red weeks!?!) Do you own a South African Timeshare that cost $500.00 compared to 7K for westwood?


To the OP.

Best of luck! We're pulling for you!

-Tony

yes - but it is Westgate.

the South Africia I brought several years ago for $500. It is a white week at a not in demand area - but it trades pretty nice for Orlando. I can get mostly what I want. there are a bunch of timeshares in Orlando. and RCI is different from II - some are the same - but mostly they are different.

SA does not trade well at all with II. It now only trades so - so with RCI. but for Orlando it is still a great bargin. there were some people who got Hawaii and the Carribean with their SA and now they are fussing that it is worthless. just depends upon your point of view.

I also have a Panama City Beach timeshares I got for $1,500. II will give me a bonus week for it....RCI won't. It trades with both companies. I got SSR studio last May with it. My cousin got a Marriott in Sept with the bonus week.

of course the problem is I got this timeshare to use. I live about 4 hours from it.

to the OP - I really hope you can get out of Westgate! My Westgate is every odd year. My SA and PCB are every year.

 

[lark]

Hiya

Thanks for all of your help. We are writing a formal letter and was told to write a complaint to General attorney florida office. They will try and help us, as we were never told we had a 10 day cooling off period.

Fingers crossed it all works out. I dont fancy going down the re-sell market I think we will lose money and it appears that timeshares dont sell well apparently attorney said.

Good luck with trying to rescind. Sounds like an uphill battle for you. As for reselling the timeshare you've just purchased, you are going to be very disappointed. You're looking at probably a 60 to 70 percent haircut, and several months of looking for a buyer.

There are two cardinal rules of timesharing:

1) Never never never buy from a developer. (There are a few caveats here -- which I only mention because this is a DVC board. In some rare cases (like with DVC), the developer keeps the resale value very high artificially with a right of first refusal. Even then, though, the resale market is cheaper.)

2) Never never never pay anyone an upfront fee to list your timeshare for sale.

You've already broken rule number 1. Don't feel bad about it. Tens of thousands do every year. That's why the timeshare industry is so infamous. Live and learn, and just chalk it up to a learning experience and enjoy your timeshare. If you do decide to sell, though, you've now been warned about the second rule, and if you violate it, you really have nobody to blame but yourself.

 

[Kerry Dig]

I wish i could just get rid of it, but I probably wont sell it. The reputation westgate has is awful. So if i exchange it every other year and go somewhere else, at least i wont be staying at westgate. I would never stayed outside of Disney again. I had such a awful time last year. We stayed at the westgate towers. it was suppose to be a 5 star resort. When i tell you how awful it was, i could just scream all over again...I think i told everyone off in the lobby..and im not that type to do that. We checked out the 2nd day we were there, and i called Disney stayed at the POFQ. Thats when i decided i will always stay right in Disney. We go every year, so Dvc is worth it for us. And we are expecting our 3rd child in Feb. ..so we have alot of Disney ahead of us..and im not complaining

 

[bongo59]

This post should alert everyone that you must be informed and ready before you jump in....................If your out of your rescind time which it appears you are you will have few legal rights...............the fact that you say you were not told is not going to matter given the way the statutes are written in Fla..............and attorney who is in Fla may be able to fight for you on another account but the rescind time protects the seller and buyer ....................The Moral of this thread is "caveat emptor"...................I feel for you and hope it works out but given the facts you have posted i think youre the proud owner of a timeshare that could be bought at bid4assets.com for 20 cents on the dollar.

 

[sigillaria]

We went to Westgate for the free prize years ago and barely got out of there with our shirts on--talk about high pressure!!

Besides DVC we own at Vistana which is stuck on one side of WDW--a beautiful resort but I would never buy a NON-DIS again.

1--I will never be able to sell Vistana-there is a zillion timeshares in Central Fla.
2--I can sell my points at OKW for a profit (bought in 1991) and hopefully HH also (bought in 1995). DIS is unique.

 

[Lisa P.]

Angel659, you've read the bad news and I agree with it. Now... where to go from here?

Knowing that it's unlikely that you'll get out of the contract, you may choose to pursue it still with an attorney. You'd need to hope that they messed up the paperwork regarding the recission protection - not much chance with these sharks but it's your call as to whether this is worth pursuing.

Assuming that it's too late to rescind, you have 4 options that I can see.

1. Toss it up to a hard lesson learned (don't make large purchases without due diligence) and simply ENJOY vacationing with what you've bought, either at your resort or by trading through II (Westgate Lakes trades through II).

2. Keep it and let your disappointment spoil your enjoyment of timeshare ownership. This is very easy to fall into; it's very common.

3. Try to sell it and take a large loss (you'd have to pay off the loan at the closing).

4. Walk away. Consider the down payment as total loss and then default on the rest of the loan. This may be a black mark on your credit report (don't know how this works for overseas owners) and only you can decide if you find this option acceptable on an ethical level. I'm just listing it since some people do it.

Personally, I like option 1. Join TUG (see my sig below) and learn to make the most of your timeshare ownership! Yes, you paid too much. BUT, you've bought something that appealed to you when you saw it. You surely could envision some lovely vacations there in the future! Make the most of the positives and move on. That's my take, FWIW.

From what I see, you bought an EOY (every-other-year) ownership with EOY maintenance fees. Some EOY weeks bill you for 1/2 the maint fees annually and some bill for the full amount EOY. Don't be surprised if they bill you in the latter part of one year for the usage the following year - that's normal.

If you bought a 3BR lockoff which could split into 3 units, that's a very large unit. $16,800 for EOY = $33,600 for annual on this very large unit. Since it's a 3BR lock-off w/3 units, this is $11,200/1BR/usage week. For a developer purchase, it's pretty common pricing. (We're just spoiled by resale pricing. The typical first time buyer buys developer, then may add with resales later.)

Here's a GOOD thing: Large lock-offs are popular. They're nice and they're not that common. Large families & travel groups need the space. If you are able to reserve the week between Christmas and New Year's (or maybe an Easter week), you may be able to rent it for $1,000-$1,300, more than covering your maint fees. And certainly, if you plan to stay yourselves during these prime holiday weeks, rentals are not cheap (certainly DVC is sky high during these times).

Later, as your travel needs change, a 3BR lock-off is very flexible. Smaller lock-off units can be a great value when trading so lock it off when trading through II. Your maint fees of $549 (need to add taxes separately in FL) will go a long way with a 3-way lock-off. Those small units only cost $183 (+ taxes) each (+ trade fee) to exchange. That's a very good deal for a week in a timeshare condo.

We plan to go to Disney every other year... must have a living area and... kitchen. We will be travelling with a party of 5...

You'll probably need a 2BR for a while. You could use 2BR of your lock-off and deposit a 1BR with II. Use it to trade via II. If possible, request exchanges to resorts which only have 2BR units (no smaller units) and II will then permit a trade up in unit size. Look through the II catalog when you get it to see where this is possible. Or, once your II account is set up, use it to look online for larger unit availability. Trading this way will give you a week's vacation during your "off" years from Orlando. Or it may provide for a 2nd week at a warm FL beach to follow your Disney week. Remember, see TUG (below) to learn the ins and outs of trading and owning! HTH!

 

[Cruelladeville]

Angel--if you can't get out of the contract, and you only paid the down payment, default on the loan, if it's possible in England. Since you will lose a lot of money anyway, if you pay this loan up, you might as well default now. At least you won't need to pay any more money, and you can still pursue the other legal avenues. My daughter did this with a Vistana, and the company eventually just tore up the contract, and sold her week to some other unsuspecting person. She didn't get her down payment back, but at least she didn't "throw good money after bad". For some reason, it was never reported to the credit bureau, either, so it never affected her credit.

Good luck, and maybe next year at this time you will have joined DVC!

 

[bongo59]

she likely will be held to Fla law and not UK law...........and with the new bankruptcy laws just passed even if she defaults.............she has to pay it in full.......no more chapter 7.............every individual now has to go 13.............but here is a hitch...........you can set up a corporate trust for less than 500 bucks here in the US and sell the timeshare to your corporate entity.............ie..............you get them to buy your timeshare by proxy for you...........then you can default and corporations can still file chapter 7 under the new laws............and your credit is not ruined.........the corporate credit will be............but not yours...............just make sure when you set it up your dont guarrantee any losses incured personally.............any good business/corporate lawyer could do this in his/her sleep......................

 

[angel659]

We only paid $200 down payment, as they said they would let us pay it back to them over 3 months, due to xmas.

If I default on this loan can they stop me from entering the USA? I would hate to go to florida and be declined at orlando airport, coz I owe america money. Also wouldnt they register it with some debt collectors

We are filing a complaint with attorneys of florida, but what exactly do they do?

We have phoned again asking them to fax over this document we had signed, but we have not received it, hearing how dodgy this company is it would not surprise me if they managed to get it forged somehow.

I have a sour taste of Westgate and would hate to give them anymore money. I have heard the apartments are not kept cleaned and its generally a noisy and horrible place to stay. Especially knowing that $16,000 is overpriced. I feel so stupid. Yet to proud to let them win. Stupid hey!

Thanks for your help it has really answered some questions. Wish I knew this before and would love to let all the English travellers know what they are getting themselves into.

 

[MiaSRN62]

My daughter did this with a Vistana, and the company eventually just tore up the contract, and sold her week to some other unsuspecting person.

I honestly don't know the situation with you daughter Cruella, but not everyone who buys a timeshare is "unsuspecting". We purchased Vistana in '94 and felt well-informed and understood we were buying as an affordable way to vacation with a larger family over time. We were actually able to buy a default loan from the developer (for $7K less) at the time when we expressed an opinion that the amount they wanted for the new construction was too much for us. We own 7 nights prime time at Vistana and are deeded for life. We can split our 7 nights during the year as we see fit. Even if we took a loss should we decide to sell, we never signed on the dotted line looking to make a profit or anything down the line. We have been happy with our stays there over the years and felt we were treated fairly at the timeshare presentation. We could have walked out in '94 and not bought without a hitch. We weren't treated anything like the OP and we were informed of a backing out period outright----trying to think back now, but it may have been 14 days and this was very clearly stated to us before signing. We also own DVC and are even happier with this purchase, but just felt compelled to add that not everyone who buys non-Disney timeshares in the Orlando area is unsuspecting.
Just wanted to add this, and if your dd was treated unfairly by Vistana that is really ashame and practices such as that should never be allowed. I'm glad she was able to get out of the contract if that is what she wanted.

 

[susieh]

We only paid $200 down payment, as they said they would let us pay it back to them over 3 months, due to xmas.

If I default on this loan can they stop me from entering the USA?

If I were you I wouldn't pay them another penny and would spend my time checking out the details on the US Embassy website about entry into the US. I can't clearly remember the questions on the Visa Waiver form but I dont recall anything about money being mentioned.

Do you have a solicitor here? It may be worth getting someone to look over the contract and see where you stand. The local CAB (citizens advice bureau) may be able to help too. Or does your or your DH's employer have a legal assist service (mine does). I'd explore all avenues possible.

 

[angel659]

I am confused. You say I owe a deed, but how has people managed to go to DVC and get them to change it over to them?

Is is a deed with Westgate or Florida?

If I could get DVC to cancel it and go with them that would be great.

 

[spiceycat]

the deed is with florida.

but Westgate must change their membership to the new owner. they charge for this - so does DVC.

if you are paid in full (no money owed on the original contract) then some people have given their timeshares back to the company they brought them from because of the higher maintence fees. they didn't wish to pay the maintence fees anymore. this doesn't work when you still owe them money.

 

[angel659]

I have just been on the phoe to DVC they cant change it for us, we will have to sort it out with Westgate. God I am regretting this buy.

Anyway, got a quote from a lovely man called Jim.

He said because we want to go away every other year he suggested we bought 200 points every year. One time payment of £19,600 and a discount of 1600.

This would give us a 1 bedroom apartment in Saratoga Springs. Based on when we travel in October. It sounds really good, for an extra say $3,000 we will be staying in Disney. I am so shocked at the price. I so thought it would be more, hence why I said yes to Westgate thinking if its this expensive here, cant imgaine how expensive it would be with disney. Instead we were ripped off by Westgate.

My husband is tempted to forfit the loan and just buy the DVC. We are awaiting for a DVD and information.

The only other way I can think of is if we rented out our accomodation out with Westgate to try and make money. Enough to cancel it after so long.

I dont know I am so confused and still feel so used by them.