My Sister's Budget-Busting Predicament...

[kristenrice]

My sister recently turned in her leased vehicle, a Kia Sportage. She had a 5 year lease and turned it in with 12,000 miles LESS than what she was allowed. She had all of the scheduled maintenance performed on it (and the documents to prove it) and returned it to the dealership about two months ago.

Yesterday, she got a bill in the mail for $1600!

Apparently, they had let the car sit in the lot for THREE WEEKS without doing anything with it. Now, they are claiming that the car needs a new engine (because it wouldn't start) and it needs a new front and rear bumper (due to "damage") and four new tires.

Um....first of all, if the car needs a new engine because it won't start, how do they think she got it to the lot to return it in the first place. On top of that, Kia's have a 100,000 mile warranty so a new engine should be covered. Second, there was no damage on either the front or the rear bumper when she returned it. It sat on the lot for THREE WEEKS so anyone could have bumped into it. Third, the car was on a 5 year lease...of course it has tire wear! They want to charge her $157 per tire to replace them to "new" condition.

My sister and her husband are like everyone else nowadays, just trying to make ends meet. She never wanted a lease in the first place, but it was the only way she could afford a "reliable" car. She did not want to turn it in, but she had no choice. Now, she finally got smart and bought a used Jeep Compass. So, since I have no experience with vehicle leasing, where does she go from here? She does not have the money to pay the bill but she also does not want to damage her credit either. There is no way she should have to pay these ridiculous charges, but what can/should she do?

 

[Scrapfriend]

I have never turned in a lease before, but I thought they checked the car over when it arrived and all neccessary paperwork was signed at the time? Did this not happen with her car? At the least she should check her documents and see what the fine print says about returning the vehicle.

 

[DisneyAndRedSox]

That is terrible!

When I turned in my Pilot, Honda set up an appt and had in independent company do an inspection and I got paperwork saying I owed nothing. Did she do any inspection or get any paperwork?

 

[bumbershoot]

Well first she needs to contact them, to at least talk about the engine.

Did she take any pictures of it recently to show the lack of damage?

The tires...that might just be a normal thing, especially with a 5 year lease. I only had 4 year leases, which seemed long enough.

But when I turned mine in (I had VWs) my end of lease bill was 1300, and that felt normal to me, even though I didn't have much wear and tear at all (some of it was over-mileage).

I'm sorry she has been surprised by this...big problem with leases is taht people just don't know what they're getting into, and don't think about (or don't know about) the end of lease charges that most companies charge...I know that I myself put them off for 8 years by rolling over leases into another lease. I let myself think that they were waiving the fees...but actually they were just putting it into my new lease payment! Ouch!

Good luck to her!

 

[dawson5]

didn't they send her info before her lease was up? We've leased 4 vehicles now and each one (Fords & Volvo's) we've gotten a letter about 3 months prior to the end of lease outlining every detail for lease turn-in. On the Ford Expedition, Explorer and F-150 that we turned in, they sent the letter along with a sturdy cardboard cutout that had various holes and measurements in it. They were to give you some kind of a guideline of what they considered normal wear and tear (dings & scratches smaller than an inch were considered normal). Then there was the coin test for the tires:

The Penny Test for Tire Tread Depth-2/32" remaining tread depth
Place the front side of a penny upside down into several tread grooves across the tire. If part of Lincoln's head is always covered by the tread, you have more than 2/32" of tread depth remaining.

If you didn't have that amount left on the tires, you were responsible for new tires.

Each of our leases were either picked up at our home or turned in at the dealership. We've only had to pay for damage on one (hubby scratched the bumper on the F-150) and that was $250. I believe there was a maximum amount for damages written into the lease, don't remember for sure.

I think she needs to dig up her paperwork and see what the guidelines for vehicle turn in are. I don't know if she can bargain with them on these items, I would assume she could, worst they can say is no.

 

[msmayor]

The biggest mistake was turning it in without receiving back paperwork stating what the condition of the car was at the time it was turned in. Unless she can prove the condition of the car on the day she turned it over, she's going to have a tough time disputing the problems.

As far as the bumper damage...don't be surprised if the "damage" is only scratches or dings. Or road tar permanently stuck to the paint. That IS considered damage on a leased vehicle.

They can and will charge you for every ding, nick, scratch, dent or mark on that vehicle, inside and out...all under the vague reason of being greater than "normal wear and tear".

 

[rynosmom]

I have had three leases prior to this one all with Chrysler Finanical and with all three I was contacted by CF about 3 months before the lease was up. When I returned the car the dealer went over the car with me and listed all damage and we both had to sign the paper. I could see that there may be an issue with the Engine that would not have been visible at the time of drop off but if the car has a 100,000 mile warranty it should be covered under it. She needs to contact Kia.

 

[kristenrice]

Thanks for all the replies!

I did not get a chance to talk to her about all the details (she was pretty upset) so I do not know what documentation she received when she turned it in. It sounded like they told her to "drop it off" and they would "give her a call" later (after they looked at it and inspected it?) She didn't get that call until 3 weeks later, which is when they finally "inspected" it. Unfortunately, I think she just didn't know any better. When she showed up to return the car, they probably told her to "park it over there" and "we will give you a call after we inspect it." I doubt she assumed it would be THREE WEEKS later, but she is the type that will do what she is told without questioning it.

I will definitely ask her about any paperwork or documentation that they may or may not have given her when she turned it in. She did tell me that there was a ding in the door, which she told them about, and that she was perfectly willing to pay for that. I am wondering if she just assumed that as long as she turned in the vehicle under the mileage limit and without any damage that she would not incur any fees at all. Like I said, I have never leased a vehicle and I don't ever plan to because of situations like hers. I would prefer to drive a six-year-old car that is paid off than to pay $350 a month to drive a "new" one.

 

[marius97]

The scary thing about leases...I've leased my last several cars...is that they don't repair things usually. Our dealer described it to us this way since he knew we had kids in car seats. If our seats left dirt marks in the seats, they wouldn't clean the seat. They would replace the seat. If there were stains on the carpets from food, they wouldn't clean he carpet, they would replace the carpet. It sounds like some dealers have you go through an independant inspection when you turn it in. Others don't. Ours never have, though I think I'd prefer that.

 

[msmayor]

Thanks for all the replies!

I did not get a chance to talk to her about all the details (she was pretty upset) so I do not know what documentation she received when she turned it in. It sounded like they told her to "drop it off" and they would "give her a call" later (after they looked at it and inspected it?) She didn't get that call until 3 weeks later, which is when they finally "inspected" it. Unfortunately, I think she just didn't know any better. When she showed up to return the car, they probably told her to "park it over there" and "we will give you a call after we inspect it." I doubt she assumed it would be THREE WEEKS later, but she is the type that will do what she is told without questioning it.

I will definitely ask her about any paperwork or documentation that they may or may not have given her when she turned it in. She did tell me that there was a ding in the door, which she told them about, and that she was perfectly willing to pay for that. I am wondering if she just assumed that as long as she turned in the vehicle under the mileage limit and without any damage that she would not incur any fees at all. Like I said, I have never leased a vehicle and I don't ever plan to because of situations like hers. I would prefer to drive a six-year-old car that is paid off than to pay $350 a month to drive a "new" one.

Well, the 'ding' alone can run upwards of $500 to fix.

I had a cut in my front fender that resulted from my daughter bumping a pickup in a parking lot (no damage to the truck at all). When I went for an estimate to get it fixed, replacing the fender was the cheap part ($180). It was the painting that cost $600!!

Because of the color and finish to the paint, the new fender AND the door would need to be painted...the color 'blended' in to the door so it would look like it had always been there. If the ding in your sister's door can be just popped and/or filled, the door would still need painting...and probably blending into the rear door and front fender. That could be a good chunk of the amount she's being charged.

 

[Stitch And Friends]

Unfortunetly you sister probably will not be able to fight the tires - it is pretty standard on leases that you have to replace them once you reach a certain tread level, and if you don't you will be charged at the end of the lease. Usually when they charge you on lease end for anything, whether it be tires, brakes, body damage, etc, they will charge top dollar. As for the other stuff though, she should fight that. None of that stuff sounds like it should be her responsibility if it occured after she returned the car.

 

[kristenrice]

I talked to her tonight and got a little more info.

Apparently, about 6 weeks before her lease was up, she began leaving messages with the dealership, requesting a copy of her lease. Each time, they responded with, "We'll get a copy to you as soon as we can". She never received one.

Then, when she went to return the car, the dealer told her that they "take care of everything" as far as contacting the bank that held her lease. The dealer said that they make arrangements for the bank's adjustor to come out and do the inspection of the car. Apparently, that is what took so long because they forgot to do it.

So, the bank claims that the engine is bad, the bumpers are damaged (and apparently the windshield too) and the tires need replacing. According to my sister, the damages they were describing were so outrageous that she went and cross-checked the VIN's to make sure they were referring to the same car. My sister understands the tires part, but she thought they might need replacing under the terms of the lease which is why she repeatedly requested a copy so she could verify it. She would have been able to get tires on her own and not pay $150 per tire.

She called the bank today and had a brief discussion with them. They agreed to take off the charges for the windshield and bumper repair. (Hmmmm, that's interesting) but she still has to hammer out the engine part with the dealership. Oh, BTW, her car was a Hyundai Santa Fe. I think I had previously mentioned that it was a Kia.

She knows that all of the terms were probably spelled out in her lease. That is why she requested a copy of it several weeks ago. She had gone through her documentation and found that the only paperwork on the car that she didn't have was the lease. She said that she has done everything at this particular dealership and knows many on their staff on a first-name basis. She has always praised their customer service and the manner in which they go out of their way to explain things to her like repairs, maintenance and charges. So, when they said that they would take care of calling the bank for her, she had no reason to doubt them. She asked the dealer if she would owe anything when she turned in the car. He told her, "As long as you have not gone over your mileage, you should be good to go." (As it turns out, this conversation took place on a recorded line since my sister had him call her at work) She had no reason to not believe him, until now.

She is going to call the dealer tomorrow and explain to them the conversations that she had and the documentation (and recordings) that she has. She is willing to pay for the tires and the door ding, but the engine issue has to be resolved. After talking to her today, it seems she has calmed down quite a bit. She has a very level head and has worked in customer service for many years. She always treats people the way she would want to be treated so she is not going off half-cocked.

Thanks for all the advice. You guys are great!

 

[LanaJae]

We've leased several vehicles and never had a problem when they were turned back, but this is the strangest thing as I just heard a similar story about a Hyundai lease!

I am on my 2nd Kia so was relieved to know it wasn't them (not leased though).

I hope everything works out for her, sounds like she's on the right track for getting this mess straightened out.

 

[Tiggs14]

$1,600 will not even touch the cost of a new engine. They are not billing her for a new engine.

Lease turn in requirements are available from the manufacturer. We just turned in a GM and had no issues at all. We took it to the dealership to check tread depth before turning it in. We were just above the minimum requirement. If we had been under we would have replaced the tires with used tires that met the tread requirement. If they didn't change the tires in 5 years it seems right that the tread depth wasn't enough. Ours was only a 4 year lease. They will put new tires on the car and will bill you for them that is why putting used on before turning them in would be best here.

As for damage to the bumper they might have an uphill battle if they didn't document with dated pictures the condition of the car. We took close up pictures of the entire car in the dealership parking lot with the date feature turned and that days newspaper on the hood of the car to eliminate any questions of whene the pictures were taken.

I'd definately call and fight them on it but I don't know that they will do anything for them.

 

[kristenrice]

$1,600 will not even touch the cost of a new engine. They are not billing her for a new engine.

I found that strange too. She said that they are claiming that she owes some sort of fee for returning a car that wouldn't start. I think she was exaggerating (out of frustration and anger) when she originally told me she needed a new engine.

 

[NMW]

We have only ever leased one vehicle and we wont do it again. Our lease was thorugh Wells Fargo and when we called to hand it in found out that we had to bring it to an auction place and that we could NOT hand it in to any car dealer. Closest one was a 2 1/2 hour drive! Wells Fargo agreed to have an independent towing company pick it up at no cost to me because of the distance. Told us that we have $395 plus tax (came to $430) hand in fee which we did not know about. We were told that's standard on all their leases. Our fault for not knowing. We took pictures, got copies of the towing companies "damage" sheet that only showed some minor scratches and said goodbye. A month later we got a final bill for about $580. They charged us $150 for "damages" that they did not specify. We had 7 days to hire an independent appraisor to dispute the $150. We didn't bother for such a small amount. I was just glad to be done with it.

I bought a Nissan Pathfinder this summer and when the sales man started talking to me about leases my husband and I both said "No way."

 

[dawson5]

$1,600 will not even touch the cost of a new engine. They are not billing her for a new engine.

Lease turn in requirements are available from the manufacturer. We just turned in a GM and had no issues at all. We took it to the dealership to check tread depth before turning it in. We were just above the minimum requirement. If we had been under we would have replaced the tires with used tires that met the tread requirement. If they didn't change the tires in 5 years it seems right that the tread depth wasn't enough. Ours was only a 4 year lease. They will put new tires on the car and will bill you for them that is why putting used on before turning them in would be best here.

As for damage to the bumper they might have an uphill battle if they didn't document with dated pictures the condition of the car. We took close up pictures of the entire car in the dealership parking lot with the date feature turned and that days newspaper on the hood of the car to eliminate any questions of whene the pictures were taken.

I'd definately call and fight them on it but I don't know that they will do anything for them.

I don't think the lease turn in requirements would come from the manufacturer but from whomever you leased it through. It sounds like you leased directly from GM. We have had one through Wells Fargo, two with Ford Motor Credit and one through Volvo Finance. All were different. I think we only had one (through FMC) where we had a fee if we did not buy the vehicle. My neighbor just turned in her lease (Volvo V70), her lease was through First Source bank, they gave her a better residual if she wanted to buy at the end of the lease. She did do her homework before turning it in though, pulled out her lease contract and talked with the dealership about what was needed to be done before turn in. First Source was a stickler on the interior, she spent some money and had it professionally detailed, she did not owe any fees after turn-in. I think the detail was under $100.

 

[bumbershoot]

I am wondering if she just assumed that as long as she turned in the vehicle under the mileage limit and without any damage that she would not incur any fees at all.

Oh, such hugs to her...

Apparently, about 6 weeks before her lease was up, she began leaving messages with the dealership, requesting a copy of her lease.

She would have been able to get tires on her own and not pay $150 per tire.

She called the bank today and had a brief discussion with them. They agreed to take off the charges for the windshield and bumper repair.

She had gone through her documentation and found that the only paperwork on the car that she didn't have was the lease.

She asked the dealer if she would owe anything when she turned in the car. He told her, "As long as you have not gone over your mileage, you should be good to go." (As it turns out, this conversation took place on a recorded line since my sister had him call her at work) She had no reason to not believe him, until now.

Why didn't she have her initial copy of the lease?

If she thinks about what she got...she got "fancy" tires on the car she drove during that time. So replacing them with cheapie ones...well it's not my style. And since I was known (in very small circles) as the flat tire queen, trust me, I replaced quite a few on my leased vehicles, and always got as close to what I had, because to me, that's just what you do when you're leasing. So when I had two flats on my Beetle, and I had Michelins...I got the Michelins...

Come to think of it, that's probably why I didn't have to pay them to replace the tires....

Was the "bank" Hyundai's leasing company? For instance, with my VW I went through their company, VCI (lovely people, they have an office about a mile from where we got married), so when the dealership people talked about the lease money stuff, they knew what they were talking about. But if I'd found a bank on my own, it would have been different.

I'm just talking here...I know it probably sounds like rude second guessing, but it's just my brain wondering where the problem started...also if it helps lurkers thinking about leases so they KNOW what they are getting into, then that's good.

Told us that we have $395 plus tax (came to $430) hand in fee which we did not know about.

Yeah, there was a standard lease turn-in fee through VCI too.



I hope she can work all this out and get the total down a bit! Once she finishes those negotiations, hopefully she'll be able to make payments. Although our paperwork didn't mention payments, I called and they were happy to let me do that. I was only asking for two payments, but their paperwork didn't even indicate they'd do that, so...