My experience of DAS & FP+

[aaarcher86]

It works as it is intended, which is to have the DAS holder wait for their turn to ride just as a non-DAS holder does.

I agree. That's exactly what anyone else leaving and wanting to ride something would have to do. I don't see that as unreasonable at all.

 

[mom to minnie&mickey]

Exactly. This is equal accommodation. You are required to wait like everyone else but can do so more comfortably by not being confined to the line. The previous GAC was a superior accommodation. Not equal

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

Exactly and well said.

 

[DLRwish]

Well, in my opinion, it's a pretty fine distinction between the CM asking for a diagnosis and nothing more, and the CM asking for nothing more than a diagnosis that's given.

Yes, I grant that the former falls outside the strict letter of the ADA and the latter doesn't. But that's a "Strange in Fact, but True in Law" technicality worthy of W.S. Gilbert himself. As any two people with a given diagnosis can tell you, any two people with a given diagnosis don't always have the same needs.

As we've pondered here many times before, is minimum technical compliance with the black and white letter of the ADA the one and only goal of WDW's policy for accommodation of people with disabilities?

I totally agree. It's not equal service when a certain diagnosis is enough for obtaining the card. Discriminatory ( action ) indeed.

 

[jenineh]

They way I see it is just saying my kid has Autism should not be enough to get a DAS. I really think it should be needs based. My son has Aspergers and when we went 4 years ago I never even knew these accommodations existed. Even if I did know I wouldn't have used it. We fully prepared him on what to expect. For me, it's about teaching my kid to live as close to a neuro typical as he can. I don't see him as disabled and so when we go again in May we will not be asking for accommodations. I do realize there are kids on a different part if the Autistic Spectrum that need the card I just think it shouldn't be given out just by saying my child has Autism. Just my 2 cents.

 

[OurBigTrip]

They way I see it is just saying my kid has Autism should not be enough to get a DAS. I really think it should be needs based. My son has Aspergers and when we went 4 years ago I never even knew these accommodations existed. Even if I did know I wouldn't have used it. We fully prepared him on what to expect. For me, it's about teaching my kid to live as close to a neuro typical as he can. I don't see him as disabled and so when we go again in May we will not be asking for accommodations. I do realize there are kids on a different part if the Autistic Spectrum that need the card I just think it shouldn't be given out just by saying my child has Autism. Just my 2 cents.

Well said, and I agree 100%.

 

[ttintagel]

We will just have to disagree on that point then. If someone has a good grasp on aspergers which is pretty specific I don't see the need in having them carry on for another 10 minutes.

Anyone who thinks that you can have a pretty good grasp on the needs of any one random individual with Asperger's obviously does not have anything approaching a pretty good grasp on Asperger's at all.

 

[book_junkie]

We were there Thanksgiving through the first weekend in December, and we got the DAS for my husband- he has Crohn's. After a disastrous start with trying to use our FP+ (basically we weren't supposed to have them was the conclusion because we were AP holders but weren't staying on site- whole separate post), we got the DAS- first time using any of the systems aside from FP-.

He waited his turn in line at GS at Studios (this was after having to bolt twice while waiting for the FP+ members to attempt to fix our MBs), and explained that he couldn't wait in lines because he had a condition that would cause him to leave quite suddenly, and that he didn't have a lot of stamina. The CM had him sit down, then filled in his info, took his picture, went over the pass, and boom, we had it.

We used it in combination with FP- because that was all we had, and were able to ride Toy Story Midway Mania for the first time- we got a return time that was an hour out, then rode ToT with fast pass, then sat in the ABC Commissary for a bit, and then enjoyed the animation studio for a bit so that he could have AC and shade before riding.

We did the same at Epcot with Test Track and Soarin'- since his mornings can be unpredictable and the FPs are going so quickly we had planned to use our FP+ but nope, so we used the DAS instead, and found shade. We were even allowed to use the back entrance to Star Tours once because he didn't think he could make the queue.

We didn't have any problems, any questions, or any nasty CMs. We had nasty GUESTS staring about the pass, but that is their own problem.

I'm sorry if anyone has any problem with cast members- I definitely can recommend going to the Studios to get theirs.

 

[aaarcher86]

Anyone who thinks that you can have a pretty good grasp on the needs of any one random individual with Asperger's obviously does not have anything approaching a pretty good grasp on Asperger's at all.

Oh please. Aspergers is a specific form of autism (or was). While there are different severities they'll all share commonalities. There isn't a wide spectrum of Aspergers like there is autism. Aspergers is specific a point on the spectrum.

 

[jenineh]

Oh please. Aspergers is a specific form of autism (or was). While there are different severities they'll all share commonalities. There isn't a wide spectrum of Aspergers like there is autism. Aspergers is specific a point on the spectrum.

I usually agree with your post but I will have to disagree with this one. My child has Asperger's and I know many other kids that do and they all have different traits and needs and they are not on the exact same point on the Spectrum. These kids do have different needs. Which is the reason I believe the DAS should be needs based. There are plenty of kids with Asperger's who don't need any accommodations at Disney.

 

[aaarcher86]

I usually agree with your post but I will have to disagree with this one. My child has Asperger's and I know many other kids that do and they all have different traits and needs and they are not on the exact same point on the Spectrum. These kids do have different needs. Which is the reason I believe the DAS should be needs based. There are plenty of kids with Asperger's who don't need any accommodations at Disney.

I'm not trying to say they're all the same and I do think it's coming off that way so I'll apologize for that. My point was that Aspergers in general has a specific grouping of traits and issues. The way those issues manifest will range. Naturally there is a range of severity. But you could bullet point the general issues that fall under the diagnosis. If someone with Aspergers didn't need the DAS they more than likely wouldn't be in to ask for it.

I can only give the horrible example of someone saying they have cancer. It's a pretty broad idea with different issues (autism). Someone saying they had lung cancer it would be easier to pin point the general issues because it's a specific type (Aspergers). Again, not the best example of what I'm trying to say.

I'm 100% for the DAS being given for needs and not a diagnosis. I disagree that giving it to someone that said they have Aspergers without digging deeper is discrimination like someone said. I can understand why a CM, upon hearing that, and being familiar with the diagnosis (perhaps a child of their own) wouldn't dig deeper although I don't think it's the best practice.

I can't honestly see the conversation as, 'what are your needs?'... 'He has Aspergers' ... 'Alright let's get started.' I imagine it was something more such as ''he has Aspergers with a brief comment on the biggest issue the child might have.'

I think the word discrimination is getting tossed around far too loosely with this whole thing. But I don't want to get the thread closed going back and forth about certain disabilities.

 

[KPeveler]

If it's not their goal, it should be.

I respectfully disagree. I am not saying Disney should give extra bonuses or special treatment to guests with disabilities. But it is not a bad thing to look for the spirit of the law too.

Technically Disney need not even use the DAS, especially in parks that are completely accessible like AK or DCA. They could deal with other needs on a case by case basis, much like attractions are dealing with guests with vision impairments who needn special seating now.

Instead Disney has tried to come up with a fair system that addresses many needs in a predictable, standard way. It is not perfect, any more than the GAC was. And it will not fit all guests' needs. But they did not need to even try to create the system.

So understanding the spirit of the law and going above and beyond, without giving preferential treatment, is not a bad thing.

 

[KPeveler]

We need to be careful using the word "discrimination" on this board.

The CMs suggesting any type of restrictions on the DAS by diagnosis or suggesting the DAS is only for people with "mental" or "behavioral" or (whatever term they use) disorder is incorrect and can be harmful.

The CM flat out asking if a person has a specific diagnosis in order to qualify for the DAS is just plain wrong.

I have even heard of CMs (this is second hand) who suggested only certain groups need the DAS and they were using derogatory terms to describe the group who qualified for the DAS. They were saying this to my friend in a wheelchair, not realizing she already had a DAS herself!

Yes, CMs can mess up, but I think part of the problems we are running into with some CMs is about their training. Needs such as autism and related disorders were emphasized as a possible reason for needing the DAS and they took away from that a range of reactions - basically they could do anything from say "i was taught the DAS was for autism" to something a little more general. They were also told the DAS was NOT for mobility disorders. This can have the same effect as the autism education - they want to be able to take absolutes when in fact disability is nothing but shades of grey.

We need to be patient with the CMs and also not be afraid to help educate them when necessary. Sometimes this means asking for another opinion or their lead. Sometimes it means more explaining on your end. It may not be fair that the responsibility of education falls to us, but we all know life is rarely fair.

I always start my explanation of why I need my DAS with physical issues that make many lines at DL dangerous for me. Sometimes I just get a blank look until i mention the panic attacks and sensory disorder. These are things likely mentioned in their training, so they get it. My physical issues are rare and I doubt were something they were taught.

We need to be careful with the word discrimination. It implies an active desire to enforce a prejudice. Most CMs who may say something incorrect or just plain stupid are usually not discriminating, they are just ignorant (or perhaps apathetic).

I am glad this discussion seems to have stayed relatively civil. Let's see if we can keep it that way.

 

[ttintagel]

Yes, CMs can mess up, but I think part of the problems we are running into with some CMs is about their training. .

I agree - training and managerial support. These are both things which cost money for extra staffing, which is something no big company is willing to spend right now, no matter how great the return on investment might end up being from increased customer satisfaction, loyalty, and add-on sales. Bare-minimum staffing levels are here to stay for the immediate future, and as a result, Disney CM's are no different than workers across many industries - muddling along as best they can to move product and people in and out with no support from the top down, from whence it needs to come. I had big hopes that that was going to change with the new program, but I think I was being really naive. Lots of babies got thrown out with the bathwater, and the company was too cheap to hire the extra people they'd need to properly deal with the transition.

 

[Coonhound]

Yes we had the new DAS card. I guess it's difficult to explain here but in our experience this new system is not for us. We spent 8 days this trip and it was a complete stress factory for me. Between keeping up with FP+ return times and deciding when to even try to use the DAS I was always running to get somewhere or waiting to run somewhere. Specifically the DAS does not work well if you are tired and want to do one specific ride or show and there is a long return time. After trudging accross the park and then be given a return time of 40 minutes sucks. You have to now go find a suitable place to rest and wait. This happened a lot to us for some reason. Then since there is no more alternate entrances you have to push a heavy wheel chair around tight corners up and down inclines. Have you ever pushed a wheelchair in and out of Space Mountain ? I know all these attractions have elevators but we were never allowed to use them.

When getting the card I tried to explain my daughter's and my own difficulties and the CM there kept saying we don't have FOL passes anymore. I even stopped him and asked him to stop repeating that phrase to me. I got basically the same thing at all parks. Disney has taken away all accommodations and now offers a version of FP return. If you ask for anything you get accused of wanting a FOL pass. I guess my main problem is if I go to do a ride or show I need to do it then or wait there in a suitable area. I can't leave and return an hour later to try again and wait in another line. I also can't make my daughter wait in the heat.

The new system is not flexible at all. Get a return time and go thru the FP line. Like it or leave. Unless something changes I guess our Bi-annual trips to Disney are over. And that makes me angry on behalf of my daughter. She is a true Disney freak.

But isn't it better to be able to find an alternative place to wait, than to have to wait in the actual line for the ride? I mean that's the point of the DAS, right- to be able to stay out of the line and wait in a place you choose instead of the line?

 

[SueM in MN]

I agree - training and managerial support. These are both things which cost money for extra staffing, which is something no big company is willing to spend right now, no matter how great the return on investment might end up being from increased customer satisfaction, loyalty, and add-on sales. Bare-minimum staffing levels are here to stay for the immediate future, and as a result, Disney CM's are no different than workers across many industries - muddling along as best they can to move product and people in and out with no support from the top down, from whence it needs to come. I had big hopes that that was going to change with the new program, but I think I was being really naive. Lots of babies got thrown out with the bathwater, and the company was too cheap to hire the extra people they'd need to properly deal with the transition.

I don't know about long term staffing, but I would have to respectfully disagree on the training and staffing during the transition.

I know from contact with attraction CMs that they were all given over an hour of training about the DAS program before it began. Guest Relations CMs had even more training about DAS.
FOr the roll out, Guest Relations CMs and managers were working overtime and there were foaming managers in every park to help with issues that could come up.

We were at WDW from October 24 thru November 9 ( so more than 2 weeks after the roll out). We still noticed greater than usual numbers of CMs at Guest Relations and many roaming managers.

 

[stitchlovestink]

I don't know about long term staffing, but I would have to respectfully disagree on the training and staffing during the transition.

I know from contact with attraction CMs that they were all given over an hour of training about the DAS program before it began. Guest Relations CMs had even more training about DAS.
FOr the roll out, Guest Relations CMs and managers were working overtime and there were foaming managers in every park to help with issues that could come up.

We were at WDW from October 24 thru November 9 ( so more than 2 weeks after the roll out). We still noticed greater than usual numbers of CMs at Guest Relations and many roaming managers.

Well it will be interesting to see how things go as this group of CPs leave and the new set comes in next month...
There are A LOT of CPS that work Attractions. A LOT!! And to think this group is going to change as a whole TWICE a year. It will be interesting to see how much training they are given since they will be joining the work force after the 'Big Training' took place.

 

[aaarcher86]

It might actually be beneficial since they'll have no prior knowledge of the old system.

 

[SueM in MN]

It might actually be beneficial since they'll have no prior knowledge of the old system.

And, their orientation will include education about the new system.

 

[stitchlovestink]

And, their orientation will include education about the new system.

I didn't expect it not to...
DD had training regarding GACs but she never worked attractions. Every CM gets a certain amount of training regarding disabilities....and then depending on what job they will be performing depends on where they expand that training IF they expand it. And that is a big *IF*. That's how it worked earlier this year....
The problem as *I* potentially see it is that training is still very quick! They put very little focus on it and I have seen the consequences. I spent time *hanging* with these kids. I talked to them. I picked their brains, so to speak....Some get it, many do not.
We will have to agree to disagree....As I see each changeover of CP (January & August are the two biggest changeovers) as a potential rough spot for guests using DAS with the inconsistencies already reported here.