My 2 cents on the young child/alligator tragedy at the Grand Floridian

[disneysteve]

I read the article written by a mom about the blamers and shamers...I instantly felt shamed because I had the conversations with coworkers earlier about the parents responsibility

I have to admit I have mixed feelings on that article. We do live in a society that is quick to place blame. The problem is that we also live in a society where nobody ever wants to accept responsibility for their actions.

Most "accidents" aren't accidents at all. Most of what people call accidents are very clearly the fault of someone not doing what they were supposed to be doing. If you are texting while driving and rear end the car ahead of you, that was no accident. If you get a splinter in your eye while running your table saw because you couldn't be bothered to put on your safety goggles, that was no accident. If you got drunk and fell down the steps, that was no accident.

Was this incident an accident? We'll probably never know. Given that fact, we shouldn't be blaming the parents who certainly have been through hell and will have to live with this for the rest of their lives. No matter what actually led to the boy's death, it's an awful tragedy that no parents should ever have to suffer through. And even if we learn that they did intentionally put their son in harms way, I think they've already been punished far more than any legal proceeding could possibly punish them.

All of that said, I think the conversation should be about whether there are things that could be done to lessen the chances of this happening again. Yes, it's the first time in 45 years but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen again tomorrow if someone else wandered into the water. I think Disney has captured 6 gators since this happened. The fact that they were able to grab that many in such a short time makes it pretty clear that gators on property are not at all rare.

 

[disneysteve]

one afternoon a cast member in charge of pool activities took a large bag of sand toys to the waters edge fir the children to play with, and yes some were in ankle deep water getting buckets of water from the lagoon.

That's a huge problem! You can bet that won't be happening anymore.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

All of that said, I think the conversation should be about whether there are things that could be done to lessen the chances of this happening again. Yes, it's the first time in 45 years but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen again tomorrow if someone else wandered into the water. I think Disney has captured 6 gators since this happened. The fact that they were able to grab that many in such a short time makes it pretty clear that gators on property are not at all rare.

According to this Reuters article, Disney is going to install signage warning guests of alligator risks:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-florida-alligator-child-idUSKCN0Z10I4

 

[disneysteve]

the signs are only written in English while many visitors can not read English.

That's a good point. Some graphic of a swimmer with a circle and slash as a universal "no swimming" sign would be better considering how many foreign guests Disney gets.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

That's a good point. Some graphic of a swimmer with a circle and slash as a universal "no swimming" sign would be better considering how many foreign guests Disney gets.

 

[k5jm]

Going by that theory, speed signs should say "60 - because going any faster could cause an accident"

But you have to take a drIvers' test that includes the comprehension of speed limit signs to be able to drive in the US.

 

[Princess Jes]

But you have to take a drIvers' test that includes the comprehension of speed limit signs to be able to drive in the US.

You obviously have to do the same here too, but I think my broader point was that you shouldn't have to list every possible outcome on a sign for it to be relevant.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

You obviously have to do the same here too, but I think my broader point was that you shouldn't have to list every possible outcome on a sign for it to be relevant.

Excellent point my Australian goddess!

I still remain vigil about safety, and my stomach is still in knots thinking of what ifs.

Again, we can argue to the cows come home but honestly if people think "no swimming" constitutes a danger or threat of wildlife in the lakes...I'm not siding with Disney on this one. Again had the guest been SWIMMING then I'd feel they ignored blatant safety signage.

Let's hope this never happens again, ever.

 

[Robo56]

First off. I have been reading some of the things being written by folks here on the dis about this tragic event at Disney World.

The dis was started many years ago to help other travelers coming to Disney World with helpful, kind information to make their trip planning easier. It then grew to include helpul advice on Universal, Seaworld, cruises, Disney wedding information and more. This board reaches out to many from other countries as well.

I remember the first time I came to the Dis with questions about a trip I was planning for myself and son and daughter-in-law and little granddaughter who was 4 at the time to Disney World. I remember the kind information that I received from posters here.

With their help I planned a great trip for my family. I still remember the look of awe in my granddaughters eyes when she met Mickey and Minnie for the first time. I bought all her clothes from the local Disney store. I wanted her to remember her special trip to Disney World.

Just like that precious family who brought their babies to Disney World for a family vacation. I bet this was a dream vacation for them too.

First off there should only be support and loving prayers being sent out for this family.

Second you can debate to your hearts content about Disneys liability here, but the signage did not indicate that there were deadly predators in the waters on that beach.

Third had signs indicated that, no one would have ever been near that beach.

Fourth I'f you are not from Florida you would not be Knowledgeable about the local wildlife.

Fifth I have read that the child was sitting on the sand near the water or had his feet in the water. This is irrelevant. Alligators can jump from the water and grab their prey and be back in the water extremely fast. You don't have to be in the water to be at risk.

Sixth Alligators have a bite pressure of ton. That is 2 thousand pounds of pressure. It is humanly impossible to get their jaws open unless the alligator decides to release. I pray this fathers will know that he did everything possible for his baby, but he was up against a fierce unbeatable monster.

Seventh there is a kill spot on the top of the Alligators head. It is located slightly behind what we would call a skull and is the size of a half dollar. On a beast that is moving fast even an experienced trapper has to be very quick and accurate with a gun to hit that kill spot on a beast like that. If missed the bone fragments that fly off can kill or severely injure the trapper.

Eighth the Alligator grabs their prey and retreats quickly to the water in what is called a death roll to drown their prey.

Ninth this is Alligator mating season. They are more aggressive during this time and more likely to travel looking for food. I have seen them up on the roads during this time of year.

Disney has been where they are for many years. They are partakers of the land in which they possess and they know about Alligators, and although alligator attacks are rare occurrences, it happened.

This family will never be the same again. They have lost a child. My heart goes out to them. Their lives will be forever changed.

I doubt very seriously if there will ever be any open lawsuit. Disney will settle with this family, as they should. No amount of money will ease their pain, but it is the right thing to do. Debating on this thread whether Disney is libel or not will not help anyone.

That family would give anything to have their baby back.

Let's send out some love to this family and prayers to Gods ears for their peace during this most grievous time in their lives.

This tragic event will teach each of us to hold our children and grandchildren closer and I hope cause us to be more loving and caring to those in need.

So for my dis brothers and sisters continue to be good to one another. Lift each other up during tragic events like this, be kind to one another and help out those who seek information on the dis with a open and kind heart

Let's send some loving prayers and kindness out to the Orlando. They have suffered significant tragedies this past week and need to know that as a dis family and a nation we stand with them.

Peace

 

[Princess Jes]

Third had signs indicated that, no one would have ever been near that beach.

I'd love to believe this would be true, but it simply isn't.
People ignore signs, regardless of their content, all the time.

 

[disneymami]

Again - there was a sign that said no swimming. Do you not see signs that people break on a daily basis i.e. no smoking. People might assume that there is no lifeguard on duty - not that there are alligators/wildlife in the water. If the sign said No Swimming/Wadding - Beware of Dangerous Lake Wildlife you would have a point.

I do think Disney is at fault that if they didn't want their guest in this lake there would be some kind of signage, or cast member guarding the lakes at night not just a simple no swimming sign. You hosted a movie night on the beach luring people to believe that this was a safe area.

Again my simple opinion, and one I think the courts will rule with as well. No Swimming undefined is left up to interpretation

Below is the actual Signage...

After all these years and the abundance of alligators in the state in Florida, why doesn't the sign say beware of alligators? Or at least some words that alert the guest of the credible potential danger?

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

I'd love to believe this would be true, but it simply isn't.
People ignore signs, regardless of their content, all the time.

I know you will likely assure me it would still happen, but I have a hard time believing any parent would openly allow a small child to play in the shallow waters along a sandy beach if there were any kinds of signs or warnings like these:

I easily found these with a 20 second internet search. Disney wouldn't have even have had to come up with its own novel wording.

After all these years and the abundance of alligators in the state in Florida, why doesn't the sign say beware of alligators? Or at least some words that alert the guest of the credible potential danger?

Not just the abundance of alligators in the state of Florida, but their known occupation of Seven Seas Lagoon.

Perhaps they thought that signage warning of the perils would take away from the "ambiance"? Detract from the "magic"?

 

[Princess Jes]

I know you will likely assure me it would still happen, but I have a hard time believing any parent would openly allow a small child to play in the shallow waters along a sandy beach if there were any kinds of signs or warnings like these:

I easily found these with a 20 second internet search. Disney wouldn't have even have had to come up with its own novel wording.



Not just the abundance of alligators in the state of Florida, but their known occupation of Seven Seas Lagoon.

Perhaps they thought that signage warning of the perils would take away from the "ambiance"? Detract from the "magic"?

I wouldn't let my child swim or paddle or wade in water that has a sign saying "steep drop off" especially at night when one step could be that steep drop off. Very quick way for a toddler to drop under the water

 

[*NikkiBell*]

But again when cast members set up toys at the waters edge , and watch the kids wade in the water...I am not placing blame but stating how I think not swimming was not perceived the same as stay out of the water totaly

I am a DVC member that owns at the Grand Floridian and stay there regularly. This is surprising to me as I have never seen it happen. The cast members are aware of the dangers including the amoebas, water moccasins, and the like in that water. If you see something like this again (which I would hope wouldn't happen even more so now), please report it to the front desk.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

I wouldn't let my child swim or paddle or wade in water that has a sign saying "steep drop off" especially at night when one step could be that steep drop off. Very quick way for a toddler to drop under the water

A steep drop-off didn't kill that little boy, though. An alligator did. And it comes back to Disney:

1. KNOWING alligators were present in the lagoon
2. allowing them to remain in the lagoon despite their size, and
3. failing to warning their guests that they were a risk.

As a parent, let me tell you there is a HUGE difference between:

Hey, you may want to be careful because the water might get deep

and

Hey, you might want to be careful beause there may be an 8' gator waiting to attack you.

 

[Princess Jes]

A steep drop-off didn't kill that little boy, though. An alligator did. And it comes back to Disney:

1. KNOWING alligators were present in the lagoon
2. allowing them to remain in the lagoon despite their size, and
3. failing to warning their guests that they were a risk.

As a parent, let me tell you there is a HUGE difference between:

Hey, you may want to be careful because the water might get deep

and

Hey, you might want to be careful beause there may be an 8' gator waiting to attack you.

That's fine, but my point is, deep water and toddlers don't mix any more than toddlers and alligator infested water, at night, in water you can't see 2 inches under the surface

 

[NeuroCindy]

Most "accidents" aren't accidents at all. Most of what people call accidents are very clearly the fault of someone not doing what they were supposed to be doing. If you are texting while driving and rear end the car ahead of you, that was no accident.

This is how I was rear-ended by a girl going 50mph while I was stopped in traffic. Now my knee is destroyed and will never be the same, even after surgery and PT. But at least she got to send her text!

Fourth I'f you are not from Florida you would not be Knowledgeable about the local wildlife.

I disagree with this. Many people that aren't from FL know there's alligators all over FL. People do read, watch animal shows, and go to zoos. That doesn't mean I think it's the parents fault for not knowing, I just don't think it's fair to act like no one would know.

 

[Princess Jes]

This is how I was rear-ended by a girl going 50mph while I was stopped in traffic. Now my knee is destroyed and will never be the same, even after surgery and PT. But at least she got to send her text!



I disagree with this. Many people that aren't from FL know there's alligators all over FL. People do read, watch animal shows, and go to zoos. That doesn't mean I think it's the parents fault for not knowing, I just don't think it's fair to act like no one would know.

I'm from Australia and know Florida has gators.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

That's fine, but my point is, deep water and toddlers don't mix any more than toddlers and alligator infested water, at night, in water you can't see 2 inches under the surface

The child WASN'T in deep water, though. He was splashing along the shoreline where even the sheriff's office has confirmed it was shallow.

The child WAS in alligator-infested water. Disney knew the threat existed, but failed to make guests aware of that risk.

I'm from Australia and know Florida has gators.

Knowing "Florida has gators" and knowing where they live, how and when they hunt, their mating season behaviours, etc. are totally different, though.

I'm from Canada. I can ASSURE you, based on the many Facebook posts of my friends since this incident made the news, that many from our northern region have no idea what alligators are capable of or in which types of places we need to be extra vigilant when we travel to the south. Now *I* personally know quite a bit about gators, but I'm also Florida-obsessed and have taken it upon myself to learn about them because it interests me. For many of my acquaintances, though, while they certainly "know Florida has gators" they are not expecting to encounter one on the sandy beach of a man-made lake at the Grand Floridian in the "Disney Bubble".....unless, of course, there were signs to alert them of the danger.

 

[Princess Jes]

The child WASN'T in deep water, though. He was splashing along the shoreline where even the sheriff's office has confirmed it was shallow.

Yes, I understand that, but shallow water with a steep drop off can happen in the space of one footstep.
Hindsight from the sheriff says it was shallow, but at night, how would one know where that steep drop off was?