Multiple Fastpasses??

Somebody just got served.




Now, let's be fair. Those folks are selling "plain, white envelopes."

Oh, yes, "plain, white envelopes." :furious: Talk about a loophole! Don't you just wish we could have a nice, "friendly" debate with thoses dandies?:mic: That would be most interesting!:scared1:
 
Here are some other laws that are on the books (but probably not enforced) that we might want to consider...

Georgia has a law prohibiting people from saying "Oh boy" in public.
...................................................
The Georgia town of Conyers ventures to curb speech by prohibiting utterances of the phrase "Two fried eggs and a fritter for a quarter."
...................................................
In Atlanta it's against the law to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole or a street lamp.
...................................................
In Hawaii it is against the law for you to insert pennies in your ear.
...................................................
It is illegal in Idaho for a man to give his sweetheart a box of chocolates weighing less than 50 pounds.
...................................................
In Illinois, animals can be sent to jail. A monkey served five days in a Chicago jail for shoplifting. Similarly, in South Bend, Indiana, a monkey was convicted of the crime of smoking a cigarette and sentenced to pay a fine of $25 plus the cost of the trial.
...................................................
Women in Joliet, Illinois, can be arrested for trying on more than six dresses in one store.
...................................................
In fire-sensitive Chicago, it is against the law to eat in an establishment that is on fire.

You can't use elephants to plow cotton fields in North Carolina.
...................................................
It's against the law in Oklahoma to get a fish drunk.

From... http://www.allamericanleathers.com/sillylaws2.htm
I am guilty...guilty...guilty....guilty on all counts.

I really am trying to talk my monkey into cutting back, although last time he just stole more cigarettes.

And about eating lunch in a building that is on fire....Oh boy! I guess I gotta stop setting fire to restaurants, and start paying for my meals. Maybe I can use the pennies I keep in my ears.
 

Here are some other laws that are on the books (but probably not enforced) that we might want to consider...

Georgia has a law prohibiting people from saying "Oh boy" in public.
...................................................
The Georgia town of Conyers ventures to curb speech by prohibiting utterances of the phrase "Two fried eggs and a fritter for a quarter."
...................................................
In Atlanta it's against the law to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole or a street lamp.
...................................................
In Hawaii it is against the law for you to insert pennies in your ear.
...................................................
It is illegal in Idaho for a man to give his sweetheart a box of chocolates weighing less than 50 pounds.
...................................................
In Illinois, animals can be sent to jail. A monkey served five days in a Chicago jail for shoplifting. Similarly, in South Bend, Indiana, a monkey was convicted of the crime of smoking a cigarette and sentenced to pay a fine of $25 plus the cost of the trial.
...................................................
Women in Joliet, Illinois, can be arrested for trying on more than six dresses in one store.
...................................................
In fire-sensitive Chicago, it is against the law to eat in an establishment that is on fire.

You can't use elephants to plow cotton fields in North Carolina.
...................................................
It's against the law in Oklahoma to get a fish drunk.

From... http://www.allamericanleathers.com/sillylaws2.htm

That is so funny! I actually laughed out loud!!!:rotfl2: :lmao: :rotfl2: :lmao:
 
I think it's a difference in wording. You want to call what you posted as "policy", which is fine with me. Call it what you like. I call it a "guideline", and after watching Pirates, you know all about guidelines. ;) But the truth is that CMs are trained to accept any FP for that day after the window opens. If you believe it's wrong to go to an attraction outside of the window, that's cool. I will continue to go late, and as Disney allows me to as part of their pollicy based upon how they train the CMs.

Perhaps the "policy" is written in a way that gives Disney flexibility to enforce the return time if they ever wish to in the future. So if they suddenly change their minds and require that people return within the window, they would already have the wording in place online and on the FPs themselves. If they do that, I'll comply without complaint (well without complaining outloud anyway). It's their park; their rules. It would make sense, to me, that a company would write their guidelines in such a way to give them the most flexibility.

Now that I have sort of admitted that their guidelines ask that you return within the window, will you sort of admit that the CMs are taught a different policy? :confused3 They are not taught to allow late entry by breaking the policy. They are taught that's how FP works. Big difference IMHO.


I will unequivocally admit that that it certainly appears they are instructing their CM’s to allow this practice. I can’t claim it to an absolute truth as I have never asked a CM and I certainly am not privy to what they are actually instructed to do, but I never doubted what you and many others have been claiming here. The only part that I will not concede is likely truth is that they are taught “that’s how FP work”. Unless you have actually been present during a training session, you cannot say unequivocally make that claim either.

Let me put this in terms more familiar to me. A preponderance of the evidence supports that CM’s are being instructed to allow FP’s to be used outside of their window, as long as it within the same 24-hour period. As to whether it’s outside of the original intent of the FP, I still maintain that it is.

Honestly, none of this is relevant to me, as one of my two trips per year is always at a non-peak time and although the other always is (spring break), I have never seen a rope drop in my life and have no intentions of starting now. I genuinely don’t care if someone is hoarding FP’s to use later in the day, or for that matter, to use on a different day altogether.

It just bothers me when grown people try to make a rule fit their own purposes rather than admit that they are bending said rule to suit them. I already admitted that I often break the speed limit, (in the example used that speeders are rarely ticketed for going only a few miles over the speed limit), but I still don’t try to assert that I’m not breaking the law by doing so. In this case, it isn’t even a law, so I guess I just can’t understand why it’s so hard for adults to admit that they are using those FP’s outside of their original intent. Sorry, but the inability to do so just seems rather childish.

So I thank-you for your sort-of admission and I am more than happy to offer my own sort-of admission.
 
It just bothers me when grown people try to make a rule fit their own purposes rather than admit that they are bending said rule to suit them. I already admitted that I often break the speed limit, (in the example used that speeders are rarely ticketed for going only a few miles over the speed limit), but I still don’t try to assert that I’m not breaking the law by doing so. In this case, it isn’t even a law, so I guess I just can’t understand why it’s so hard for adults to admit that they are using those FP’s outside of their original intent. Sorry, but the inability to do so just seems rather childish.


Ok fine I admit I am using fastpasses outside of their original intent. I am so evil. I get fastpasses and never use them. I keep them for my scrapbook. I know I am just so terrible. Please tell the Disney police to write me a ticket. I know if I was a truly nice person I would give the ticket for another guest to use or not even get one because I am just using a ticket that a more worthy guest should be getting. I have no idea how I sleep at night.
 
I will unequivocally admit that that it certainly appears they are instructing their CM’s to allow this practice. I can’t claim it to an absolute truth as I have never asked a CM and I certainly am not privy to what they are actually instructed to do, but I never doubted what you and many others have been claiming here. The only part that I will not concede is likely truth is that they are taught “that’s how FP work”. Unless you have actually been present during a training session, you cannot say unequivocally make that claim either.

Let me put this in terms more familiar to me. A preponderance of the evidence supports that CM’s are being instructed to allow FP’s to be used outside of their window, as long as it within the same 24-hour period. As to whether it’s outside of the original intent of the FP, I still maintain that it is.

Honestly, none of this is relevant to me, as one of my two trips per year is always at a non-peak time and although the other always is (spring break), I have never seen a rope drop in my life and have no intentions of starting now. I genuinely don’t care if someone is hoarding FP’s to use later in the day, or for that matter, to use on a different day altogether.

It just bothers me when grown people try to make a rule fit their own purposes rather than admit that they are bending said rule to suit them. I already admitted that I often break the speed limit, (in the example used that speeders are rarely ticketed for going only a few miles over the speed limit), but I still don’t try to assert that I’m not breaking the law by doing so. In this case, it isn’t even a law, so I guess I just can’t understand why it’s so hard for adults to admit that they are using those FP’s outside of their original intent. Sorry, but the inability to do so just seems rather childish.

So I thank-you for your sort-of admission and I am more than happy to offer my own sort-of admission.

Well if my hubby is lying about his FP training, there's gonna be h-e-double hockey sticks to pay for it. :rotfl:

I have already admitted that I use the FPs outside of the window. I have also admitted that they ask that you use them within the window. So you can derive at the conclusion that I am admitting that I use the FP outside of what Disney would prefer. I never denied that. What I deny is that it's against their policy to do so.
 
No, FP are non-transferrable so, sorry you'd still get a ticket from the Disney Police if you gave it away.
 
It's the opposite of line cutting--it's letting a bunch of people go in front of you.

Good thing Disney doesn't see it that way or there'd be no FPs and we'd all be grumbling about the crappy time we had because we had to stand in lines for so long we only got to ride 3 rides our entire trip.
 
Ok fine I admit I am using fastpasses outside of their original intent. I am so evil. I get fastpasses and never use them. I keep them for my scrapbook. I know I am just so terrible. Please tell the Disney police to write me a ticket. I know if I was a truly nice person I would give the ticket for another guest to use or not even get one because I am just using a ticket that a more worthy guest should be getting. I have no idea how I sleep at night.

Interesting. I really don’t understand why that is so hard to admit with out the sarcasm.

When I admitted that I often drive beyond the speed limit, I didn’t resort to saying, “Oh yes, I’m a big bad speeder. They should lock me up and throw away the key. Forget serial killers, all law enforcement officers should be after me!” My admission was to breaking an actual law, yours is just to using a FP outside of it’s original intent.

My interest here has now become much more about this inability to admit that this is outside of the original intent of the FP system than it is about the actual practice of hording itself.

I hope you have a great time on your next trip to WDW. If I see you on my next trip, I'll even offer to get some FP's myself and give them to you. As there wil be 8 of us, I would imagine that would be considered hitting paydirt to most of you.
 
Ok fine I admit I am using fastpasses outside of their original intent. I am so evil. I get fastpasses and never use them. I keep them for my scrapbook. I know I am just so terrible. Please tell the Disney police to write me a ticket. I know if I was a truly nice person I would give the ticket for another guest to use or not even get one because I am just using a ticket that a more worthy guest should be getting. I have no idea how I sleep at night.

:confused3
 
I will unequivocally admit that that it certainly appears they are instructing their CM’s to allow this practice. I can’t claim it to an absolute truth as I have never asked a CM and I certainly am not privy to what they are actually instructed to do, but I never doubted what you and many others have been claiming here. The only part that I will not concede is likely truth is that they are taught “that’s how FP work”. Unless you have actually been present during a training session, you cannot say unequivocally make that claim either.

Let me put this in terms more familiar to me. A preponderance of the evidence supports that CM’s are being instructed to allow FP’s to be used outside of their window, as long as it within the same 24-hour period. As to whether it’s outside of the original intent of the FP, I still maintain that it is.

Honestly, none of this is relevant to me, as one of my two trips per year is always at a non-peak time and although the other always is (spring break), I have never seen a rope drop in my life and have no intentions of starting now. I genuinely don’t care if someone is hoarding FP’s to use later in the day, or for that matter, to use on a different day altogether.

It just bothers me when grown people try to make a rule fit their own purposes rather than admit that they are bending said rule to suit them. I already admitted that I often break the speed limit, (in the example used that speeders are rarely ticketed for going only a few miles over the speed limit), but I still don’t try to assert that I’m not breaking the law by doing so. In this case, it isn’t even a law, so I guess I just can’t understand why it’s so hard for adults to admit that they are using those FP’s outside of their original intent. Sorry, but the inability to do so just seems rather childish.

So I thank-you for your sort-of admission and I am more than happy to offer my own sort-of admission.

I agree, the preponderance of the evidence does support that CM’s are being instructed to allow FP’s to be used outside of their window, as long as it within the same 24-hour period. But as to whether it’s outside of the original intent of the FP, is not the issue at hand.

As I understand it, Fastpass was started in July of 1999, so Fastpass and it's inception are 9 years old. The original intent is no longer at issue. The issue is the current Fastpass policy and what the current CMs are being trained to do. I can not comment on what the CMs were being trained to do in 1999, but can comment on what the current CMs now are being trained to do, which is allow late Fastpasses for the current day they are issued.

Would you be open to striking up a conversation with a ride/attraction CM next time you are at WDW and asking about their current Fastpass policy (not the "original" policy from 1999) or what they have been trained to do? Just an idea!:idea:
 
I agree, the preponderance of the evidence does support that CM’s are being instructed to allow FP’s to be used outside of their window, as long as it within the same 24-hour period. But as to whether it’s outside of the original intent of the FP, is not the issue at hand.

As I understand it, Fastpass was started in July of 1999, so Fastpass and it's inception are 9 years old. The original intent is no longer at issue. The issue is the current Fastpass policy and what the current CMs are being trained to do. I can not comment on what the CMs were being trained to do in 1999, but can comment on what the current CMs now are being trained to do, which is allow late Fastpasses for the current day they are issued.

Would you be open to striking up a conversation with a ride/attraction CM next time you are at WDW and asking about their current Fastpass policy (not the "original" policy from 1999) or what they have been trained to do? Just an idea!:idea:
Actually, maybe you should ask about the "original policy" and the "current policy." Perhaps it has always been, since 1999, that the CMs were trained to accept late Fastpasses and you are totally wrong about the "original intent." I think I might like to have that conversation with a CM that's been there since 1999. Could be very interesting, don't you think?
 
I dunno about you, but I always pay $30-50 for one single plain white envelope. ;)

Gee, I just got a whole case of envelopes last week.....maybe I should sell them at half that price....then I too could afford Grand Floridian Concerige, :lmao:
 
It just bothers me when grown people try to make a rule fit their own purposes rather than admit that they are bending said rule to suit them. I already admitted that I often break the speed limit, (in the example used that speeders are rarely ticketed for going only a few miles over the speed limit), but I still don’t try to assert that I’m not breaking the law by doing so. In this case, it isn’t even a law, so I guess I just can’t understand why it’s so hard for adults to admit that they are using those FP’s outside of their original intent. Sorry, but the inability to do so just seems rather childish.

You are making a “rule to fit your own puproses” as well- you are assuming there is a “rule” included on the FP ticket or somewehere that we should all follow- or admit to breaking. Most of us don’t see that “rule” that you have inferred.
The language on the FP ticket and in the “How to use FP” explanantion from Disney site- is just that- an explanation/guideline how to use it.

No hard and fast rules-except-

“Cannot accept early arrivals. Valid only on date printed”
CANNOT and ONLY being the keywords and the only absolutes.

From all accounts and real life experiences shared here- the rule is- FP are to be accepted til park closes- that is what the CMs are taught and that is what is enforced- can’t see why Disney would do that unless that is actually the “rule”

So to expect others to admit to breaking a rule you assume exists is sort of odd or perhaps childish?

My interest here has now become much more about this inability to admit that this is outside of the original intent of the FP system than it is about the actual practice of hording itself.

I suspect Disney’s original intent when introducing the FP system was to keep people out of the lines and get them into shops and restaurants spending money. It’s all about the bottom line and efficiency at Disney. So if I “hoard” FPs all morning I can spend my money on cold drinks at my resort pool all afternoon. Then when I return to the park I can be very efficient in using all my FPs, allowing me to shop or eat or drink or spend money in some way.
So technically I am using FP as they were intended to be used, and have no intention of admitting to breaking some sort of rule you made up.
 
I agree, the preponderance of the evidence does support that CM’s are being instructed to allow FP’s to be used outside of their window, as long as it within the same 24-hour period. But as to whether it’s outside of the original intent of the FP, is not the issue at hand.

As I understand it, Fastpass was started in July of 1999, so Fastpass and it's inception are 9 years old. The original intent is no longer at issue. The issue is the current Fastpass policy and what the current CMs are being trained to do. I can not comment on what the CMs were being trained to do in 1999, but can comment on what the current CMs now are being trained to do, which is allow late Fastpasses for the current day they are issued.

Would you be open to striking up a conversation with a ride/attraction CM next time you are at WDW and asking about their current Fastpass policy (not the "original" policy from 1999) or what they have been trained to do? Just an idea!:idea:

Unless you have evidence to support the supposition that the original intent has been effectively altered in some way by someone with the authority to do so, then I believe we still have to assume that it applies. I think perhaps there is some confusion with what CM's may be told during training and the intended use of the FP.

During a 2007 trip to MK, a group of teenagers asked the CM at the entrance to Space Mountain if 2 of them could enter the ride line while the rest of the group (about a dozen of them) rode something else and then be allowed to join the 2 holding the place in line. The CM smiled and told them "Sure." When I asked why he would allow that he told me that the first and most important thing he was taught in his CM training is to make every effort to ensure that each guest had "a magical visit". I just shook my head and let it go. I suspect that allowing guests to use their FP outside of the window is much the same thing. That story and other similar ones I have heard on the Dis lead me to conclude that CM's may well be being told to allow the FP to be used outside of the window. However, that does not negate the original intent in any manner.

Actually, maybe you should ask about the "original policy" and the "current policy." Perhaps it has always been, since 1999, that the CMs were trained to accept late Fastpasses and you are totally wrong about the "original intent." I think I might like to have that conversation with a CM that's been there since 1999. Could be very interesting, don't you think?

I would be more than happy to ask a few CM's if the opportunity presents itself. Again though, I would assume that all they will be able to tell me is what they were instructed to do in training. I doubt that many of them are aware of any actual written ploicy. Possibily an email to WDW guest relations would shed more light than asking CMs.

Let me ask a question though, even if you were to be offered conclusive evidence that it is in violation of policy, but as long as it continues to be allowed, would you not continue the same practices you're currently using? Why is it so important to think you aren't violating the original intent? No sarcasm intended; I'm just curious.
 
Ok.. found the post I was speaking of earlier.. and while I didn't remember it thusly, it does speak to the idea of "original intent" quite nicely and in a pretty authoritative way.

WOW
This just always seems to rear it's ugly head. Now we have people wanting the "rules" enforced. Where do I start??? I always try to respond to these posts because I do feel like I have some worthwhile info that comes from actual Disney management (see below). First of all, if you don't believe you should use the FP's past the time, then don't. The fact is this: If I choose to not ride during the 2 hour window, it only means that someone else will fill my magical spot on the ride (someone from the standby line). If I did enter during the 2 hr time, that same person (theoretically) will ride AFTER me. You see, when I use my FP does not affect 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who choose to ride a certain ride. This is not a rationalization, it is just basic theme park logistics. FP's do not expire (on that day, of course) and I know that for a fact.

My cousin, Scott Bowden works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing (how would you like that on your business card?) We have spoken so many times on this subject that many times when I call him, the first thing he says is "Wassup, Fastpasses don't expire"

Remember, FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise). Disney is a business and people can not spend their money in line. FP is a win-win idea that reduces your standing in line time. When you use it does not affect the flow of the ride or the dynamics of the wait for ANYONE else. Now, there is one more thing. When we adopted our child from China 2 years ago, one of the other fathers in our travel group works for the company in Buffalo that (among other things) worked with Disney on the design and implementation of the fastpass. Trust me when I say that the idea was not to reduce your wait time, but to reduce your "non-buying" time in the parks. It is not an accident that the Fastpass does not specifically prohibit late arrivals. In the original patent for the fastpass (and machine), there is a specific statement that details this "late" use. It is not only OK, it has zero bearing on the flow of the park or the wait times for anyone. Yes, you could argue that if everyone held their fastpass for 1 hour then flooded the ride, there may be some fluctuations in wait times, but that is simply not realistic. Additionally, if everyone did that, many more standby riders than normal would get to ride earlier. Remember, how or when you use your FP does not affect the number of people in the park or how many people ride the ride.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire. If a castmember tells you otherwise, politely ask them to speak with a supervisor - you are not asking for a favor, you are asking for something that is specifically allowed under the fastpass.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire.

Please everyone, stay nice - this is all about vacation stuff after all.

I know.. still hearsay, but as a long time trusted member of this board.. if you don't believe DawgDad, your standards for proof are unreasonable. ;)

Now, can we get back to the topic of the thread.. which was uh.. (looking at notes scribbled on hand) the closing of "Food Rocks" ?

No wait .. wrong crib notes.. oh yes, holding multiple fast passes....
 
CanadianGuy....now THAT is an answer with some credibility. If you vouch for the source, that's good enough for me.

However, just gotta say that unless some of the previous posters were privy to that info (and I doubt they were since they didn't reference it) then they were just shooting in the dark as much as I was. Only difference is that I openly admitted it.

Thanks CG.
 

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