Multi-Site POS Revision Dated 01/19/19

[DougEMG]

I agree that if they REALLY want to differentiate their Direct Sales from Resales, that their best option really is to increase the value of Direct by increased perks specifically tailored to them. Yes, I understand they can't just hand out discounts. They need to do things without impacting the profits of the other divisions, and they cannot just change policies as they desire, when those policies have been set by the other divisions. But I don't think it would take much in the way of perks to swing the sales balance in their direction. The biggest thing they really should do is create the belief in the minds of their Direct purchasers that those Direct purchasers are getting a special deal, with special benefits and special value.

Here are some suggestions that I think are reasonable, and not too expensive:

1. Give a ONE YEAR Annual Pass to the purchasers, once, for every 50 or every 100 points that they purchase.

2. Let Direct Purchasers have 1 extra FastPass per day, per person who is staying in their unit. (So they could have 4 instead of 3 per day.) Preferably in perpetuity, but at least for 5 years.

3. Allow Direct Purchasers to get their FastPasses one week early, while they own the contract.

4. Allow Direct Purchasers to make Dining Reservations one week early, while they own the contract.

5. Give Direct DVC Purchasers one free 12 ounce bottle of water per day, for each person staying in the unit. They could easily provide this by having the DVC Owners go by the Reception area and show their Magic Bands and pick them up. What does a bottle of water cost? 5 cents?

6. Every year, send the Direct Purchasers a T-Shirt (or something similar that people would see) that says, "I purchased DVC Riviera from Disney. It's mu home." (increase Membership fees for Riviera by $10 per year to cover this.)

I think there are a number of other Perks that would make people happy, make people feel that they got a great deal, and make people want to Buy Direct, because it makes them feel special. I don't think it would take much for people to choose Direct over Resales, if Disney did that.

I am surprised that they haven't done something with the FP. That doesn't technically cost them lost dollars to provide either extra FP or earlier FP; unless of course they have a plan to monetize FP in the future!

But extra FP is definitely one of the biggest benefits that would encourage me to buy direct.

 

[skier_pete]

I am surprised that they haven't done something with the FP. That doesn't technically cost them lost dollars to provide either extra FP or earlier FP; unless of course they have a plan to monetize FP in the future!

But extra FP is definitely one of the biggest benefits that would encourage me to buy direct.

Yeah- an extra FP a day would be a pretty big incentive - but if they had to give it to ALL existing DVC members, that's a LOT of extra FPs given out each day.

This is all great talk though - they've clearly decided the tactic is not "increase the value of direct sales" but instead "decrease the value of resale".

 

[TK-Tampa]

Current thought on this situation.....

I don't think the restrictions will reduce the resale value of the L14 resorts, absent a slight blip perhaps right now as people are trying to evaluate the impact the changes on their own situations.

DVC - at least the L14, is a huge value over time, particularly when comparing resale to direct pricing. With the recent jumps in direct pricing, the resales prices, under normal circumstances, would also increase. Therefore, what Disney has done with this announcement is to slow the rate of resale prices increasing, rather than having it keep in step with their increases. Once all this shakes out, future buyers will realize that having the ability to book at the 11-month window for the next 20+ years at the current resale pricing is still a tremendous value, even if they may never get to use it at Riviera, Reflections, et al.

 

[freediverdude]

I agree that if they REALLY want to differentiate their Direct Sales from Resales, that their best option really is to increase the value of Direct by increased perks specifically tailored to them. Yes, I understand they can't just hand out discounts. They need to do things without impacting the profits of the other divisions, and they cannot just change policies as they desire, when those policies have been set by the other divisions. But I don't think it would take much in the way of perks to swing the sales balance in their direction. The biggest thing they really should do is create the belief in the minds of their Direct purchasers that those Direct purchasers are getting a special deal, with special benefits and special value.

Here are some suggestions that I think are reasonable, and not too expensive:

1. Give a ONE YEAR Annual Pass to the purchasers, once, for every 50 or every 100 points that they purchase.

2. Let Direct Purchasers have 1 extra FastPass per day, per person who is staying in their unit. (So they could have 4 instead of 3 per day.) Preferably in perpetuity, but at least for 5 years.

3. Allow Direct Purchasers to get their FastPasses one week early, while they own the contract.

4. Allow Direct Purchasers to make Dining Reservations one week early, while they own the contract.

5. Give Direct DVC Purchasers one free 12 ounce bottle of water per day, for each person staying in the unit. They could easily provide this by having the DVC Owners go by the Reception area and show their Magic Bands and pick them up. What does a bottle of water cost? 5 cents?

6. Every year, send the Direct Purchasers a T-Shirt (or something similar that people would see) that says, "I purchased DVC Riviera from Disney. It's mu home." (increase Membership fees for Riviera by $10 per year to cover this.)

I think there are a number of other Perks that would make people happy, make people feel that they got a great deal, and make people want to Buy Direct, because it makes them feel special. I don't think it would take much for people to choose Direct over Resales, if Disney did that.

I agree, the annual pass would cost them something, but all the other things would be pretty inexpensive or free for them to offer. No reason not to do that.

 

[LAX]

I am surprised that they haven't done something with the FP. That doesn't technically cost them lost dollars to provide either extra FP or earlier FP; unless of course they have a plan to monetize FP in the future!

But extra FP is definitely one of the biggest benefits that would encourage me to buy direct.

While I am not sure when it started, DLR has been charging for FP's equivalent for some time. I am surprised it hasn't happened at WDW, given how profit-driven the current regime appears to be.

LAX

 

[crvetter]

While I am not sure when it started, DLR has been charging for FP's equivalent for some time. I am surprised it hasn't happened at WDW, given how profit-driven the current regime appears to be.

LAX

They have been charging for the convenience to book a FP on your phone, not for the actually access to FP. FP, at DLR, has been equally available as a free option if you want to run around to the paper distribution points (MaxPass and paper distribution was the exact same pool of FP). Also MaxPass doesn't just include the ability to book FP on your phone, it also includes their version of the Memory Maker (also MaxPass is included with certain AP levels). There is a rumor that FP+ may eventually have some paid options, these paid FP+ will remove from the free pool FP--something MaxPass doesn't do.

 

[LAX]

They have been charging for the convenience to book a FP on your phone, not for the actually access to FP. FP, at DLR, has been equally available as a free option if you want to run around to the paper distribution points (MaxPass and paper distribution was the exact same pool of FP). Also MaxPass doesn't just include the ability to book FP on your phone, it also includes their version of the Memory Maker (also MaxPass is included with certain AP levels). There is a rumor that FP+ may eventually have some paid options, these paid FP+ will remove from the free pool FP--something MaxPass doesn't do.

If you are given the option to access FP at WDW on your wireless devices vs. running around the park to get paper passes, which would you choose? Thus, the free option isn't really free when you factor in the time & effort to grab those paper passes. That to me would still be monetizing FP no matter how you spin it.

LAX

 

[Mumof4mice]

While I am not sure when it started, DLR has been charging for FP's equivalent for some time. I am surprised it hasn't happened at WDW, given how profit-driven the current regime appears to be.

LAX

Free fast passes are still available at DLR. But those who do not pay the max pass upcharge are at a significant disadvantage for the high demand, low capacity rides.

Even before the introduction of Maxpass, securing morning FPs for Cars required rope dropping the FP machine. Long lines were formed at the FP dispenser, and FPs were typically gone within an hour of park opening.

With Maxpass users being able to book Cars FPs as soon as they tap through the turnstiles, any free FP would be a challenge to obtain. Since DLR only allows 1FP at a time, getting a 7pm FP wipes out the whole day (unable to get any earlier FP for other rides, have to queue for everything).

 

[Madame]

Free fast passes are still available at DLR. But those who do not pay the max pass upcharge are at a significant disadvantage for the high demand, low capacity rides.

Even before the introduction of Maxpass, securing morning FPs for Cars required rope dropping the FP machine. Long lines were formed at the FP dispenser, and FPs were typically gone within an hour of park opening.

With Maxpass users being able to book Cars FPs as soon as they tap through the turnstiles, any free FP would be a challenge to obtain. Since DLR only allows 1FP at a time, getting a 7pm FP wipes out the whole day (unable to get any earlier FP for other rides, have to queue for everything).

Isn’t it still your FP return time or 2 hrs after you pulled the FP that you can pull another, whichever comes first?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Isn’t it still your FP return time or 2 hrs after you pulled the FP that you can pull another, whichever comes first?

Yes.

 

[crvetter]

If you are given the option to access FP at WDW on your wireless devices vs. running around the park to get paper passes, which would you choose? Thus, the free option isn't really free when you factor in the time & effort to grab those paper passes. That to me would still be monetizing FP no matter how you spin it.

LAX

My point is you are paying for a convenience/enhancement not strictly for the actual product, it isn't removing from the pool of free FP by any means. I would say the best comparison between MaxPass and FP+ is MaxPass is most similar to the 60 day window to staying on site at WDW. Yes I use MaxPas but my point wasn't disagreeing on the convenience at all, just highlighting a difference between MaxPass and a potential pay for play FP+.

Isn’t it still your FP return time or 2 hrs after you pulled the FP that you can pull another, whichever comes first?

Yes.

MaxPass it is a minimum of 30 min wait to a maximum of 90 min wait and if your return time falls within the 30-90 min wait you wait only up until your return time.

 

[Mumof4mice]

Isn’t it still your FP return time or 2 hrs after you pulled the FP that you can pull another, whichever comes first?

Theoretically yes. However that yields a maximum of two top-tier FPs in our experience.

Scenario 1: Slept in and got to Cars FP machine late at 9.15am
- grab 6pm cars FP
- wait until 11.15am to get next FP. By this time, only late afternoon FPs are left for the high demand rides.
- wait another 2 hours, when most good FPs are gone.

Scenario 2: successful RD of FP machine
- get 9.05am Cars FP, use immediately
- get 10am FP for most other top tier rides.
- work down the list of rides, can usually obtain 2-3 additional high demand FPs due to being ahead of the bottleneck.

 

[Mumof4mice]

MaxPass it is a minimum of 30 min wait to a maximum of 90 min wait and if your return time falls within the 30-90 min wait you wait only up until your return time.

I didn't know that! Haven't been back to DLR since the introduction of MaxPass. Ouch, it's even worse than I thought it was - the free FP option is hugely devalued!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Theoretically yes. However that yields a maximum of two top-tier FPs in our experience.

Scenario 1: Slept in and got to Cars FP machine late at 9.15am
- grab 6pm cars FP
- wait until 11.15am to get next FP. By this time, only late afternoon FPs are left for the high demand rides.
- wait another 2 hours, when most good FPs are gone.

Scenario 2: successful RD of FP machine
- get 9.05am Cars FP, use immediately
- get 10am FP for most other top tier rides.
- work down the list of rides, can usually obtain 2-3 additional high demand FPs due to being ahead of the bottleneck.

That's a case where it's best to just skip the FP. Go do the single rider line for RSR which has been short in the mornings and move on with other FP's to maximize.

 

[Mumof4mice]

That's a case where it's best to just skip the FP. Go do the single rider line for RSR which has been short in the mornings and move on with other FP's to maximize.

Absolutely! We made the rookie mistake of getting a late FP on our very first visit to DCA. Never again. Many visits later, now when we walk about DLR, the locals ask us for directions (then do a double take at the Australian accent)!

 

[DVC92]

I agree, the annual pass would cost them something, but all the other things would be pretty inexpensive or free for them to offer. No reason not to do that.

Being one of the original owners, an incentive for purchasing at the beginning was free passes to all the parks through 1999. If I remember correctly, it was for up to 4 guests. The only caveat was that when AK opened in 1998, we weren't given free entry. Therefore, I didn't go to AK until 2000.

 

[crvetter]

Being one of the original owners, an incentive for purchasing at the beginning was free passes to all the parks through 1999. If I remember correctly, it was for up to 4 guests. The only caveat was that when AK opened in 1998, we weren't given free entry. Therefore, I didn't go to AK until 2000.

Yeah this was spelled out as a part of the contracts, not even a Membership Benefit. Though I suspect we never see anything like this as it was meant to entice people to buy into an untested program (point systems weren't even really a thing along with a timeshare at Disney).

It was 1 per studio, 2 per 1 bed, 3 per 2 bed, and 4 per Grand Villa for the number of tickets a day.

 

[Aron1012]

Understood, though I guess we mainly differ on did the lack of distinguishing resale and direct protect us from ever doing so. I would argue no, since it did say new resorts could have their own terms and conditions and the Disclosure Document could be amended.

Ideally DVC reverts the change and does what has worked well vs what they are are allowed to do. Currently they hide behind we are allowed to do it and members want this. If we show them not all members want it (direct and resale) that might be the best option as I think they vetted it already, seems less sloppy than the 2020 point charts. Hopefully enough feedback, especially direct buyers who they claim are asking for it, start making comments and questioning it.

This idea that Disney can distinguish a difference between resale and direct when it comes to ownership rights (not members benefits) is something I intend to ask Yvonne about. It is something that should be concerning for every current owner of DVC. I get that they can change the perks associated with membership based on where you bought (or likely even where you own) but I don't understand how they can start to distinguish a difference in members based on how they acquired the points. Does that mean at some point if you own SSR you are no longer allowed to trade into resorts at 7 months, but only at 6 months because they don't like you any more?

If you are an owner of a real estate interest with certain deeded rights I don't see how that can be taken away or reclassified based on how you became an owner. If it is can you imagine how people are going to start to view DVC. @ziravan is right not everyone will know this, but I bet enough will know and certainly tell everyone they come in contact with this is now a possibility. It could effectively destroy the credibility DVC had worked to build over the past 20+ years.

 

[ziravan]

I’m good to go. I have contracts where I want to stay and they are direct or grandfathered enough that none of the restrictions affect ME.

And I’m not likely to sell anytime soon.

But this new scheme of restrictions is unfair to new owners. We love our DVC and the thing that bothers us the most about these changes is that, even though we love our DVC, we can no longer recommend it to others because for anybody that buys today, it’s not the same product. And I think that’s true whether you buy resale or direct: these new changes are going to affect both.

In the meantime, even if these changes obliterate the already strained 7 month window for everybody, we’ll still be staying at BCV. And Poly. And AKV. We just won’t be recommending DVC to anybody.

 

[ljmiii]

I’m good to go. I have contracts where I want to stay and they are direct or grandfathered enough that none of the restrictions bother ME.

What worries me is that if DVD gets away with altering the basic nature of our deeded ownership then all bets are off.

There is no reason to assume that as 'grandfathered' resale buyers we would continue to enjoy the same booking window as those who bought directly from Disney. 11 Months direct home resort, 8 months resale home resort, 7 months anyone else could well be in our future.