Mulan Is Back

[tonilea]

As to me calling the police po-po, I do that only here as an abbreviation. And no I do not teach my children slang. I just like how Madea refers to them as this. Also, I did not call the policeman a 'Barney Fife'- I may get angry but I don't get stupid. And even when I am angry, I am still a bit respectful- I don't slam doors etc... just so you know.
Mulan

Like I said, I know you are angry and frustrated and who could blame you. I certainly don't think you are stupid, I know you are educated. I just hate hearing the police referred to as the po-po. To me, to only makes the person using it look bad. KWIM? Of course, I might not feel this way if DH wasn't a ::cop: and I wasn't a former officer.

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

Like I said, I know you are angry and frustrated and who could blame you. I certainly don't think you are stupid, I know you are educated. I just hate hearing the police referred to as the po-po. To me, to only makes the person using it look bad. KWIM? Of course, I might not feel this way if DH wasn't a ::cop: and I wasn't a former officer.

Absolutely no offense to you or DH. I do get angry at the officers and I use that term very loosely for the ones who just don't give a dam about anything. Sorry, but he could have had DAMM sit and listen to what I had to say and try to resolve this- Sorry, but the answer "take it to court" doesn't always solve problems that are immediate. And furthermore, going to court costs money! I have to date spent over $16,500 on this whole court matter. Will it ever end? NO!
Mulan

 

[tonilea]

Absolutely no offense to you or DH. I do get angry at the officers and I use that term very loosely for the ones who just don't give a dam about anything. Sorry, but he could have had DAMM sit and listen to what I had to say and try to resolve this- Sorry, but the answer "take it to court" doesn't always solve problems that are immediate. And furthermore, going to court costs money! I have to date spent over $16,500 on this whole court matter. Will it ever end? NO!
Mulan

I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for you, but the officer could not detain him and make his listen to what you had to say. IMO, DAMM was absolutely wrong, but he could have slammed the officer with a civil rights violation.

 

[momx2]

Absolutely no offense to you or DH. I do get angry at the officers and I use that term very loosely for the ones who just don't give a dam about anything. Sorry, but he could have had DAMM sit and listen to what I had to say and try to resolve this- Sorry, but the answer "take it to court" doesn't always solve problems that are immediate. And furthermore, going to court costs money! I have to date spent over $16,500 on this whole court matter. Will it ever end? NO!
Mulan

I understand you are angry and upset, but you are dead wrong. The police have no obligation to make your ex "sit and listen". The fact you actually used your children to make him come in the police station to get him to listen to you angers me for your children. Communication with your ex is your problem, not your children's or the police officer's problem. You really should just send the letter certified or better yet have your attorney do so. You and your ex handled this inappropriately, IMO. The children will pay the price for these actions. This has been going on way too long.

 

[mommytobug]

Like I said, I know you are angry and frustrated and who could blame you. I certainly don't think you are stupid, I know you are educated. I just hate hearing the police referred to as the po-po. To me, to only makes the person using it look bad. KWIM? Of course, I might not feel this way if DH wasn't a ::cop: and I wasn't a former officer.

I know exactly where you are coming from. DH used to be an officer and it is very disrespectful and also "redneckish" to say the least to call an officer Barney Fife. They also have rules and limits. That officer can't use his authority when he has none. "sit down, mister, and read this letter" Are you kidding me?

I guess I am wandering if in your heart of hearts, you knew he was not going to take the letter. I knew it and I only hear one side of this story. I would not have taken it either. I would let your attorney communicate or try to. You are never going to get him to do what you want him to do. There are some wonderful policemen in this world who put their life on the line daily. Mine was one several years ago. After being shot at and going to court where the jury heard witnesses, etc, justice was not served. So, they don't always have the upper hand on everything. You probably feel the same way when nurses are all grouped together. I have no idea what to suggest. I am just so glad I am not in this mess myself. It must be exhausting for you and him to continue to struggle over these innocent children. Good luck and I hope he shows Sunday!!

 

[mommytobug]

I understand you are angry and upset, but you are dead wrong. The police have no obligation to make your ex "sit and listen". The fact you actually used your children to make him come in the police station to get him to listen to you angers me for your children. Communication with your ex is your problem, not your children's or the police officer's problem. You really should just send the letter certified or better yet have your attorney do so. You and your ex handled this inappropriately, IMO. The children will pay the price for these actions. This has been going on way too long.

Agreed. I see people in therapy every day who grew up in these circumstances. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior so my guess is that our posts go ignored. That is Ok, we tried.

 

[momx2]

DAMM showed, he wouldn't come in the PD so I had the kids sit on the far side of the room so he would have to come all the way in. I handed him the paper and said "this is about communication and visitation with the children" he said, "I'm not taking anything from you, you can serve me in court! Come on kids!" I said, DAMM take the letter. And I got the kids back and told them to come back with mommy so we can get the po-po to talk with daddy. I went up to the window and asked the po po to come here, he did, I handed him the letter and quickly explained that DAMM has shut off all lines of communication and this letter is a solution by my atty to fix things and he is refusing to take it. DAMM says, if she wants to give me papers she can do it in court and out the door he went with the kids! I asked the po-po for help and he just stood there like DUH! I snatched the paper out of his hands and said "he((, I guess I gotta do everything myself, your no help at all!" and I left so angry and so furious I could have punched or screamed or worse. Yeah, I was that mad! DAMM did not see me react- thankfully. But then I went to my car and yelled and screamed that justice is a crock of S--- and this whole darn situation isn't fair and if God, Karma, fate etc couldn't do anything for me then the heck with them all!
DAMM has literally cut all lines of communication off! Cell phone gone, house phone- he doesn't answer, email- he doesn't know and probably won't comply. Even if I send the letter "delivery conformation" doesn't mean he will read the thing.
Sunday, if I don't get the kids back, then I will go to co on Monday and attempt to retrieve them. Then I will go see my lawyer down there and get a court date ASAP. DAMM wants me to take him back to court- he's not gonna do anything cause he doesn't have the money, but I'm pretty sure when JTB heres that he has cut all lines of communication off DAMM may be in real serious trouble!
Sometimes, I wish I could think quicker. I should have held DS in my arms till Barney Fife did something and not let DAMM leave and then if he attempted to remove DS from my arms I could have kicked him and taken out his knee at least!
Mulan

You really need to go back and read this! I re-read it and it is worse the second time than the first. I know you are upset, but this is ridiculous. You're lucky you didn't end up in trouble with the police. Do you actually think an appropriate solution is to hold your own child hostage in a sense. At this point you are doing as much damage to your children as your ex. You really need to stop using juvenile abbreviations and grow up! Do it for yourself and for your children.

 

[hematite153]

Mulan--so far the responses have focused on your language and unrealistic expectations. I agree with a lot of what's been said.

But, I also have a comment that is more directly responsive to what you said. Many people on this board (myself included) have repeatedly told you to respond to your ex with "it's in the court papers" or "talk to my lawyer" and nothing else. For him to respond to you with the same basic language is actually a sign that he's learning something. He's learned that you and he do not have a relationship where you can speak without it becoming confrontational--that actually strikes me as a good thing. Yes, it will cost you money to have your lawyer send the letter, but, you should pay it. Have your lawyer send the letter to his lawyer and if you're concerned about Sunday night call your old lawyer now so that she will be up to speed and ready to go on Monday if needed.

It would be great (for your kids and for you) if someday you and your ex were to have a relationship where you can civilly discuss your kids. However, you are nowhere near that now. Don't try to push it. Get your lawyer to communicate for you and go to court as needed.

The other thought in my household. It is disturbing that you called your kids back to you as part of an argument. I know that you want to be a role model to them and teach them about good relationships. Calling them back creates the sense that they are just a bargaining tool for you, rather than loved for who they are. Please be careful to always be the "better not the bitter" in front of them. But, the biggest part of this thought....

Thank God you didn't come up with your 'plan' quickly enough!
(I'm serious, send some prayers out!)

If you had used your kids that way the police may have had to become involved and may have had to arrest you for holding your own son hostage. Can you imagine the trauma that would have caused everyone? Including the likely transfer of custody that would have occurred?

 

[2poohbears]

Mulan -
I agree that you should have your attorney communicate this kind of thing to DAMM. That makes it official - and no excuse for not understanding or not receiving the information. There are problems every time the two of you try to talk to each other. On top of that - your children do not need to witness this stuff.

I know you are upset, and fearful, about the children being with DAMM. I don't blame you, but you really need to think about how you will respond whenever situations like this one come up...and I'm sure there will be another in the future. Put the children first. Holding onto your son so DAMM couldn't take him at a scheduled visit would NOT be a good idea. I think you could have gotten into a lot of trouble by doing that. Don't give DAMM the ammunition he needs to get those kids, or make more trouble for you. You should stop yourself from acting out whenever you are angry, because you will most likely do something to hurt yourself and/or the children.

I imagine it's a nightmare knowing your kids are with him, and wondering if he'll return them on Sunday. I'm so sorry you & the children are going through this. I wish there were a quick solution for you, but this is your life right now - so you really have to figure out how to work within what you've got. KWIM? Start thinking NOW about how you will handle the situation on Sunday, should he not show up, or should he try to make any trouble. Be ready for anything, so that you can react with thought and purpose - and not out of anger, frustration, fear. Let your lawyer know that he would not take the letter, and tell her what he said. See what her thoughts are on how to proceed.

I hope he shows with the kids on Sunday. I'll keep you all in my prayers.

 

[hereyago]

DAMM showed, he wouldn't come in the PD so I had the kids sit on the far side of the room so he would have to come all the way in. I handed him the paper and said "this is about communication and visitation with the children" he said, "I'm not taking anything from you, you can serve me in court! Come on kids!" I said, DAMM take the letter. And I got the kids back and told them to come back with mommy so we can get the po-po to talk with daddy. I went up to the window and asked the po po to come here, he did, I handed him the letter and quickly explained that DAMM has shut off all lines of communication and this letter is a solution by my atty to fix things and he is refusing to take it. DAMM says, if she wants to give me papers she can do it in court and out the door he went with the kids! I asked the po-po for help and he just stood there like DUH! I snatched the paper out of his hands and said "he((, I guess I gotta do everything myself, your no help at all!" and I left so angry and so furious I could have punched or screamed or worse. Yeah, I was that mad! DAMM did not see me react- thankfully. But then I went to my car and yelled and screamed that justice is a crock of S--- and this whole darn situation isn't fair and if God, Karma, fate etc couldn't do anything for me then the heck with them all!
DAMM has literally cut all lines of communication off! Cell phone gone, house phone- he doesn't answer, email- he doesn't know and probably won't comply. Even if I send the letter "delivery conformation" doesn't mean he will read the thing.
Sunday, if I don't get the kids back, then I will go to co on Monday and attempt to retrieve them. Then I will go see my lawyer down there and get a court date ASAP. DAMM wants me to take him back to court- he's not gonna do anything cause he doesn't have the money, but I'm pretty sure when JTB heres that he has cut all lines of communication off DAMM may be in real serious trouble!
Sometimes, I wish I could think quicker. I should have held DS in my arms till Barney Fife did something and not let DAMM leave and then if he attempted to remove DS from my arms I could have kicked him and taken out his knee at least!



That's a really great idea! If we ever get to this point

Mulan

Good job once again putting your kids in the middle of you and Damm's little escapades! The police aren't there to make DAMM listen to you. And actually you should have done what you thought of, not only would you had the police arrest you on the spot for assault on DAMM, but then possibly loss of custody, interfering with visitation, etc. and then you could really rally for posters sympathies once you got out of jail then come back on the boards and tell your sob story. Grow up and stop putting your kids in those situations.

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

Well, after reading from everyone I guess I did screw up. I guess I will never get the hang of things! I guess I thought since the court papers do say that we are to communicate like adults and not hand notes to the children etc but handle all communication with each other and he can't seem to do this- and he doesn't have a lawyer. Guess where that leaves me? Up the creek!
My lawyer CANNOT send him ANY KIND of communication- its ILLEGAL. And if they can't get his lawyer then guess what- that leaves me as the messenger!

Guess I will have to take him back to court so we can spell out everything in 15 minutes or less infront of JTB. That'll sure solve the problem!

For those of you who think this is all a sob story- its not! PM me and I will give you directions to co and you can meet DAMM first hand.

Did I expect something more from the police- yes I did! Boy, I guess I am stupider than I thought.

Mulan

 

[barkley]

Well, after reading from everyone I guess I did screw up. I guess I will never get the hang of things! I guess I thought since the court papers do say that we are to communicate like adults and not hand notes to the children etc but handle all communication with each other and he can't seem to do this- and he doesn't have a lawyer. Guess where that leaves me? Up the creek!
My lawyer CANNOT send him ANY KIND of communication- its ILLEGAL. And if they can't get his lawyer then guess what- that leaves me as the messenger!

Guess I will have to take him back to court so we can spell out everything in 15 minutes or less infront of JTB. That'll sure solve the problem!

For those of you who think this is all a sob story- its not! PM me and I will give you directions to co and you can meet DAMM first hand.

Did I expect something more from the police- yes I did! Boy, I guess I am stupider than I thought.

Mulan

why is it illegal for your lawyer to send him any kind of communications? i thought if a person did'nt have a lawyer of record all communication of a legal nature had to go directly to them (heck-even when i've been represented i've ended up getting sent all kinds of communications from the other person's lawyer, they sent them to my attny's as well but they would always c.c. me at the bottom and send one to my home or work address as well).

 

[sunnyday123]

wow.....everyone here seems to be throwing out some harsh posts. I'm sure going back and thinking about what happened Mulan realizes things could've gone differently, but have any of you ever dealt with someone like this? Try not talking to your kids,not knowing where they are, not knowing if they are coming back for a few days. You would'nt make it. Then sit there for those few days knowing you really can't drive to where they are to see if they are ok and not having their heads filled with a bunch of garbage or having someone beat on them, or hurt them emotionally. I bet my next breath you would react with the same frustration and anger. And thinking things doesn't hurt anyone and unless everyone around is psychic, they don't know it. If the other person is not acting like an adult, it's very easy to get so frustrated and angry that you react. Trust me, I've been here,done this and got the t-shirt to prove it. The only thing my ex didn't do was become physically abusive. He took her for a week, wouldn'dt let me speak to her, and told me I'd never see her again. Could I do anything? Nope. Not till the week was over. Did he tell her him moving out was my fault and that I wouldn't let her see him anymore than what he did? Yep, and a whole lot more. Let someone mess with your kids head, and then you'll understand the situation better. Could Mulan have handled it better? Sure. But it's so easy to sit in a house, never having to go through this, and say "this is what you should have done" then actually go through it. I'm not saying don't offer suggestions/criticizm, just maybe don't be so rough about it.

 

[surfgirl]

Mulan, yes you screwed up.

Don't beat yourself up over it. We all make mistakes... this is a journey. You have taken big steps in the right direction. So, you overreacted and took one the wrong way, big deal. Don't let him get to you. Luckily, it was a relatively minor mistake and there aren't any huge consequences. Honestly, that is the best type of mistake to make. Had you followed through and done what you wanted to, that would have been a bigger mistake to recover from.

no harm, no foul. not worth getting upset over.

 

[Scurvy]

I am so sorry, Mulan. I can understand your frustration. I think any reasonable person would think that the letter was a perfect idea. Sadly, DAMM is obviously not a reasonable person.

I can certainly see why you were irritated with the police officer in the heat of the moment; I would have been too. But really he doesn't have the power to force DAMM to listen. I imagine that the police also get frustrated with situations like this - even if they aren't part of the "good ole boy" network like in county, their hands are tied when it comes to this sort of thing. Even if they wanted to help you, they really can't. I don't think you were stupid to expect more from the police, but I think you have to keep in mind that they have very strict rules governing what actions they can and can't take.

I know that you don't want to have to go back to court, but at this point you really don't seem to have a choice. Obviously the current arrangement isn't working! You need to talk to your lawyer about this and see what they think - it's their job to figure this out for you and they have more experience than you with this.

At this point you also need to be prepared for him to not bring the kids tomorrow. I imagine the police also won't do much about that since he was initially supposed to have them for five weeks. Not that I am defending him - I think by not showing up before he should forfeit the whole time, but I'm not sure that the police and judge can/will see it that way. That's another reason you need to rely on the expertise of the lawyers.

Finally, I admit that I was very surprised when I read your post last night. It really did not sound like you. The "po-po" references and anger did not make you sound like the person we know you are. But no one sounds their best when they post in anger, and after following your threads for so long I know that wasn't the real you. It is one thing to vent and get it out of your system on here . . . and another to let that seep out in real life. You need to remember that DAMM has many people fooled about who is the bad guy in all of this, and as unfair as it seems, you have to go above and beyond to show everyone involved that you are the calm and reasonable one. Never give him an opening to try to pull you down to his level!

I will be praying for you this weekend. I truly believe that you will win in the end, but things may well get worse before they get better and you are going to have to be stronger than ever.

 

[Frankiesmom]

well,well,well.... here we go again. Checking in on this thread every couple of days is my guilty pleasure; since I was blocked by 1/2 of these Mulan defenders. I said the exact same thing a couple of months ago- she likes the drama with her ex- she continually puts her kids in the middle- this is nothing but a big carousel ride to her. And the saddest thing is that these poor kids will always be subjected to the horrible behavior of their parents.

 

[cherjp]

wow.....everyone here seems to be throwing out some harsh posts. I'm sure going back and thinking about what happened Mulan realizes things could've gone differently, but have any of you ever dealt with someone like this? Try not talking to your kids,not knowing where they are, not knowing if they are coming back for a few days. You would'nt make it. Then sit there for those few days knowing you really can't drive to where they are to see if they are ok and not having their heads filled with a bunch of garbage or having someone beat on them, or hurt them emotionally. I bet my next breath you would react with the same frustration and anger. And thinking things doesn't hurt anyone and unless everyone around is psychic, they don't know it. If the other person is not acting like an adult, it's very easy to get so frustrated and angry that you react. Trust me, I've been here,done this and got the t-shirt to prove it. The only thing my ex didn't do was become physically abusive. He took her for a week, wouldn'dt let me speak to her, and told me I'd never see her again. Could I do anything? Nope. Not till the week was over. Did he tell her him moving out was my fault and that I wouldn't let her see him anymore than what he did? Yep, and a whole lot more. Let someone mess with your kids head, and then you'll understand the situation better. Could Mulan have handled it better? Sure. But it's so easy to sit in a house, never having to go through this, and say "this is what you should have done" then actually go through it. I'm not saying don't offer suggestions/criticizm, just maybe don't be so rough about it.

I agree, yeah maybe Mulan didnt handle this the right way but if DAMM wasnt such a pain in the posterior then she wouldnt have all this nonsense to deal with, she was frustrated with the actions of the police, JTB and DAMM . its not easy, and can sympathise with her to a certain extent , not wanting to go off topic, but my younger son is getting bullied at the school and my DH and i have been at the school constantly since Sept last year , long story and its only just in the last week because I told the Head teacher that I was now going to the Community Police that we feel she has taken further and serious action, so Mulan not that this is anything like your horror story , i know what its like to be frustrated by people who dont seem to want to protect YOUR precious children.

So for you Mulan and stop and think before acting,

 

[momx2]

Well, after reading from everyone I guess I did screw up. I guess I will never get the hang of things! I guess I thought since the court papers do say that we are to communicate like adults and not hand notes to the children etc but handle all communication with each other and he can't seem to do this- and he doesn't have a lawyer. Guess where that leaves me? Up the creek!
My lawyer CANNOT send him ANY KIND of communication- its ILLEGAL. And if they can't get his lawyer then guess what- that leaves me as the messenger!

Guess I will have to take him back to court so we can spell out everything in 15 minutes or less infront of JTB. That'll sure solve the problem!

For those of you who think this is all a sob story- its not! PM me and I will give you directions to co and you can meet DAMM first hand.

Did I expect something more from the police- yes I did! Boy, I guess I am stupider than I thought.

Mulan

First, it is not illegal for your attorney to contact your ex if he doesn't have an attorney. If ex does have an attorney, she should contact him first. I know how bad that county can be and the judge, but that should not be your excuse to put your children in the middle. You purposely sat your children as far from the front door of the police dept. as possible to make your ex come farther in the building and then ran and got them after he blew you off to force ex to speak with you. Look, I've been the child in the middle many, many times. Your child will never, never, never forget the events of last night. Moments like those are painted on their memory and they will carry it around forever. Right now, they are probably blaming themselves for everything. Now, I know you'll get the children back and be a great mom and think you erased all the bad, but it will always be there, in the back of their minds. They will always wonder when "they" will cause another problem between you and ex. I'm sorry for all your problems with ex and how he treats you, but I'm more sorry that your children are still being victimized.

 

[tonilea]

I'm not trying to trash you, but to get you to understand that the police just don't have the power to do what you are asking of them. Besides, you really wouldn't want them to have that kind of power. Imagine what would happen to you in county, since the police there are DAMM's buddies. Their scope of power is limited.

What you are expecting the police to do, is the equivelent of epecting a nurse to perform open heart surgery. Could she? Possibly, she might have the skills, but it would be illegal as heck!

 

[graygables]

First, It's a learning process, and unfortunately, children are a part of that. Mine were, too, and it was hard and I made some mistakes, too.

Here's the important thing: YOU MUST COMMUNICATE THROUGH YOUR LAWYER OR CERTIFIED MAIL. It is not the police force's responsibility to deliver letters or make someone do what you want. They have no authority like that. If DAMM doesn't have an attorney, then the letter should be mailed certified return receipt. He will either sign for it and you'll have the receipt or he won't and it will be returned to you unclaimed. THEN you go to court and deal with it there, and can show that YOU are trying to be reasonable and follow the legal channels of communication.

My ex did all kinds of posturing, but when it came down to it, I had the righteous upper hand and prevailed and he basically dropped off the face of our earth for 14 years.

I just read this yesterday: Proverbs 20:22, "Do not say, 'I'll pay you back for this wrong!' Wait for the Lord, and he will deliver you."

I'll add what my Dad used to say, "wait for the Lord and keep your nose clean" YOU do the right things and no one, not DAMM, not the judge, can say anything against you.

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