MS claims no availability when there is plenty of cash availability?

[LoveBWVVBR]

My family has been on the waitlist for Dec. 23rd to 28th since 7 months out. I can see that there is cash SSR availability for our dates in a studio, 1 bedroom, and 2 bedroom. When I called to inquire as to why, exactly, our waitlist hasn't come though, the MS rep. was rude and dismissed my request. I don't think that she even checked! She just said that there was no availability for those dates.

Honestly, I really don't think that she checked at all. This was just a few days ago. I'm calling again tomorrow, armed with the info that I can see cash availability in every size accomodation at SSR. I know that they can convert cash accomodations to points accomodations, but I'm wondering what the specifics of that are (DH thinks that we might have to be 7 days out or less to do this?). I'm so frustrated right now because we really want to be in SSR for that week and it looks like there should be availability. Did I just get a lousy CM when I called earlier in the week? Shouldn't DVC members have a right to those rooms that are available to everyone else with cash right now?

 

[Kathi OD]

There are often times when ressies are not available on points, but are available on cash. I cannot explain the reasons clearly, but reading this thread should help you to understand why this happens.To my knowledge, cash availability is never converted back to point availability (I could be wrong about this), but I don't think that happens.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1596820

That said, trying to make ressies 7 months out for Christmas week is usually not going to work out. With how busy WDW is over Christmas, the only likely way to get a ressie is to make it at your home resort at 11 months out.

 

[Chuck S]

Cash availability has nothing to do with DVC availability. Cash reservations are available at SSR for many reasons. They can NOT simply convert cash rooms to point rooms, you are mistaken.

1)The resort is not fully sold out (there are still points available for purchase), yet all buildings are completed. Contracts repurchased by Disney through ROFR also fall into this category. Therefore, Disney still owns enough rooms to have some available for cash. These rooms can not be used by DVC members reserving on points.

2)Members traded to other locations throguht the Disney collections, Concierge Collection, Adventures by Disney, etc. In theory, those points are turned into rooms, which are then made available for cash to offset the cost for that trade. These rooms can not be converted to DVC point rooms, but remain cash rooms.

3)At 60 days out, any DVC rooms not reserved on points are then available as Disney cash rooms. However, it is becoming increasingly unlikely that many rooms are turned over for cash at 60 days. These are the ONLY rooms that can possibly be reclaimed and used for DVC members on points, if they aren't already booked on cash. And again, it is likely that NO DVC rooms were turned over to Disney at 60 days out, but were all reserved by members.

You did not get a "lousy" CM, this is the way the system was designed to work.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

The CM that I talked to was indeed lousy and surly. She seemed bothered to even be answering the phone. I've had the bad luck of getting CM's like this the last 2 times that I've called. I've never had that experience before in the past. I'm like 99.9% sure that she didn't even check the availability when I asked her about it.

We had no problem getting an identical reservation at SSR for XMas week at less than 7 months out last year. I should clarify that we DO have a 11 month reservation at the home resort (OKW). Being that my elderly grandmother is going to be along (a whole other story), OKW is not practical at this point (she won't stay on the 1st floor and can't climb stairs...**sigh**) which is why we tried to get all of the other resorts at 7 months. SSR seemed to be our most likely option since it comes up a lot at busy times IMHO. Heck, I saw it coming up for XMas week with my II traders a whole lot (guess I should have grabbed it!)

 

[LIFERBABE]

She should not have been rude to you, but that is the way the system works.

Last year SSR was not completed and it was much easier to get a room there because there was a continous stream of new inventory. Now that it is complete and all rooms have been released to inventory either as points or cash, it is filling earlier.

There are many SSR owners and contrary to popular belief, they want to stay at their home for the holidays. Obviously enough of them to fill the point inventory prior to 7 months.

 

[JimMIA]

When I called to inquire as to why, exactly, our waitlist hasn't come though, the MS rep. was rude and dismissed my request. I don't think that she even checked! She just said that there was no availability for those dates.

Sorry you had that experience with the CM, but WHY your waitlist didn't come through is obvious. Waitlists are now filled automatically, so if it didn't come through, it's because there is no availability. The CM may have been rude, but she was correct.

Chuck gave you a very clear explanation why you may see cash availability, but no points availability. It's a very common situation, but one most of us have never imagined until we read about it here on the DIS.

You just need to keep calling and see what happens. One of my daughters has had consistent good luck getting last minute waitlists during the Christmas-New Years period, but she's usually only looking for one day. I'd guess your chances of getting 5-6 days over Christmas are slim, but you have nothing to lose by continuing to try.

Worst case scenario, I'd call MS back and request first floor for medical necessity. We've done that before with our Grandma and I think it's pretty easy to get. I'm sure if you just "happen" to get a first floor room, Grandma will not return to the airport and fly home.

Good luck, and have a great trip either way.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

At this point I'll just keep calling daily then I guess. I didn't realize that SSR was easier to get last year because it wasn't completed. I guess our other option is to try to rent out the OKW reservation and book SSR with cash To me it's ridiculous that it's available with cash and not with points, but I understand the explanation of why this happens.

Since my grandmother will complain the ENTIRE trip if she's on the first floor, we will have to find a way to get her up the stairs to the second floor at OKW Live and learn I guess...it's time to sell the OKW points and buy somewhere where we actually want to stay at the holidays.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Sorry you had that experience with the CM, but WHY your waitlist didn't come through is obvious. Waitlists are now filled automatically, so if it didn't come through, it's because there is no availability. The CM may have been rude, but she was correct.

Chuck gave you a very clear explanation why you may see cash availability, but no points availability. It's a very common situation, but one most of us have never imagined until we read about it here on the DIS.

You just need to keep calling and see what happens. One of my daughters has had consistent good luck getting last minute waitlists during the Christmas-New Years period, but she's usually only looking for one day. I'd guess your chances of getting 5-6 days over Christmas are slim, but you have nothing to lose by continuing to try.

Worst case scenario, I'd call MS back and request first floor for medical necessity. We've done that before with our Grandma and I think it's pretty easy to get. I'm sure if you just "happen" to get a first floor room, Grandma will not return to the airport and fly home.

Good luck, and have a great trip either way.

Is there any reason why, say at the 35 day mark, that those cash rooms couldn't be released for point rentals? Do they get to right off rooms that aren't reserved with cash?

 

[Chuck S]

At this point I'll just keep calling daily then I guess. I didn't realize that SSR was easier to get last year because it wasn't completed. I guess our other option is to try to rent out the OKW reservation and book SSR with cash To me it's ridiculous that it's available with cash and not with points, but I understand the explanation of why this happens.

Since my grandmother will complain the ENTIRE trip if she's on the first floor, we will have to find a way to get her up the stairs to the second floor at OKW Live and learn I guess...it's time to sell the OKW points and buy somewhere where we actually want to stay at the holidays.

Also remember that DVC Sales had a successful "developers points" incentive this year. Meaning that many new purchasers had double points to use up, making booking during the 11 month window that much more important.

We had a first floor room at OKW last month. It was fine, had a decent view, and was far more convenient than lugging suitcases upstairs. Even though it was busy week at WDW (Jersey Week, Soap Weekend, Food & Wine) and OKW was packed, we did not hear anything from the people upstairs or the people next door.

You could request one of the three elevator buildings at OKW, that way Grandma wouldn't be on the first floor, and wouldn't have to deal with stairs. But, the parking isn't the best at those buildings. They do have the advantage of being relatively close to the check-in area, without being affected by the noise bldgs 11 to 14 may encounter by being so close to a busy area. Requests for those buildings, though, can not be guaranteed.

 

[JimMIA]

Is there any reason why, say at the 35 day mark, that those cash rooms couldn't be released for point rentals? Do they get to right off rooms that aren't reserved with cash?

I'm not sure of the answer to that, but I suspect that it boils down to who owns which rooms, as Chuck outlined above.

Some of the availability is "owned" by DVC outright.

Some of the DVC availability HAS been taken with points, but then that availability was exchanged out for cruises, II exchanges, whatever...which transfers it back to DVC. This process is what makes exchanges out possible. We don't have any claim on that portion of the availability -- we've already rented it with points and then traded it away.

If DVC allowed either of those two pools to be used for points, they would essentially be giving it away for nothing.

The third pool is OUR pool, which we purchased when we bought into DVC. As Chuck outlined, any of that inventory which is still available at 60 days is made available to CRO. MS can pull that inventory back for points ressies. If CRO rents those rooms, they don't keep the money. The money goes back into our DVC budget as "breakage income" and is used to offset some of our dues. So that inventory remains the "property" of the DVC owners, no matter how it is eventually used -- we either use the inventory, or we get the proceeds from the rentals.

I'm not sure what you mean by "write off." If they don't rent the rooms, there is no revenue, and therefore nothing to write off.

 

[Chuck S]

Is there any reason why, say at the 35 day mark, that those cash rooms couldn't be released for point rentals? Do they get to right off rooms that aren't reserved with cash?

I'm guessing that CRO pays an agreed upon amount to DVC for those rooms (the ones used for Disney trades) when they are turned over to them. So they are CROs to do with as they please, chances are, during that time of year, they will rent for $$$ cash at the last minute, or be used as upgrades for an overbooked WDW resort.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I'm not sure of the answer to that, but I suspect that it boils down to who owns which rooms, as Chuck outlined above.

Some of the availability is "owned" by DVC outright.

Some of the DVC availability HAS been taken with points, but then that availability was exchanged out for cruises, II exchanges, whatever...which transfers it back to DVC. This process is what makes exchanges out possible. We don't have any claim on that portion of the availability -- we've already rented it with points and then traded it away.

If DVC allowed either of those two pools to be used for points, they would essentially be giving it away for nothing.

The third pool is OUR pool, which we purchased when we bought into DVC. As Chuck outlined, any of that inventory which is still available at 60 days is made available to CRO. MS can pull that inventory back for points ressies. If CRO rents those rooms, they don't keep the money. The money goes back into our DVC budget as "breakage income" and is used to offset some of our dues. So that inventory remains the "property" of the DVC owners, no matter how it is eventually used -- we either use the inventory, or we get the proceeds from the rentals.

I'm not sure what you mean by "write off." If they don't rent the rooms, there is no revenue, and therefore nothing to write off.

By "write off" I mean can they claim a loss for not renting the rooms, and take it off on taxes?

 

[JimMIA]

By "write off" I mean can they claim a loss for not renting the rooms, and take it off on taxes?

In the industry, unrented rooms are called "breakage." No hotel operates at 100% capacity all the time, so there is always "breakage."

But it's like an empty airplane seat -- it's a loss of potential revenue, not an expense. There is nothing to write off, no tax advantage.

 

[DVCLiz]

At this point I'll just keep calling daily then I guess. I didn't realize that SSR was easier to get last year because it wasn't completed. I guess our other option is to try to rent out the OKW reservation and book SSR with cash To me it's ridiculous that it's available with cash and not with points, but I understand the explanation of why this happens.

Since my grandmother will complain the ENTIRE trip if she's on the first floor, we will have to find a way to get her up the stairs to the second floor at OKW Live and learn I guess...it's time to sell the OKW points and buy somewhere where we actually want to stay at the holidays.

If you understand the explanation of why this happens, then why do you find it ridiculous?

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I completely understand about unsold points and points that have exited the DVC system for other uses, cruises etc. But how do they determine the time frame under which those points should be available to CRO? Since points that are owned have no specific time associated with them who decides what time frame these "unused" points should be available for cash sale?

 

[JimMIA]

Since my grandmother will complain the ENTIRE trip if she's on the first floor, we will have to find a way to get her up the stairs to the second floor at OKW

Well, your chances of getting a first floor villa are probably about 1/3 anyway, whether you request it or not...and no matter what resort.

You have several options, if you choose to use them. One is to request a first floor villa that will be comfortable to enter and exit with an elderly grandparent. Another is to request an elevator-equipped building for medical reasons. Another option is to leave Grandma at home, but I suspect there is "another whole story" to that option. I don't mean to sound rude here, but the system is what it is. It may not be possible to make you happy on this particular trip, given the limitations you are working under.

Live and learn I guess...it's time to sell the OKW points and buy somewhere where we actually want to stay at the holidays.

I'm not a fan of "buy where you want to stay" and I am a big fan of OKW. However, I do believe in "buy where you would not be disappointed to stay" if you are typically going to vacation during peak periods, have the ability to book in your 11-month window (which you apparently do), and will be disappointed if you don't get what you want.

I also think it is extraordinarily unrealistic to expect to get anything in DVC during Christmas at seven months. If you were successful previously, you were lucky, but any time during December is always going to be very difficult. Many, many DVC owners book their holiday trips exactly at 11 months, and some book them day-by-day at 11 months to ensure they get what they want.

If this is going to be your normal vacationing pattern, maybe you should sell and buy where you really want to stay. You may or may not take a financial hit, but you'll probably be much happier...or at least unhappy about a different topic.

 

[Chuck S]

Since my grandmother will complain the ENTIRE trip if she's on the first floor, we will have to find a way to get her up the stairs to the second floor at OKW Live and learn I guess...it's time to sell the OKW points and buy somewhere where we actually want to stay at the holidays.

I know she is family...but my rules for guests (including family)...they are MY points, it is MY vacation that you have been invited to share. Complainers are not invited, and if anyone complains while on the trip, or if they cancel last minute without a medical or pressing reason, they are not invited back. So far, two relatives are on that list. And my goodness, they can't imagine why?!

 

[Chuck S]

I completely understand about unsold points and points that have exited the DVC system for other uses, cruises etc. But how do they determine the time frame under which those points should be available to CRO? Since points that are owned have no specific time associated with them who decides what time frame these "unused" points should be available for cash sale?

I don't think any member really knows how the timeframe is determined. But if it is based on the actual dates the member has traded for, it still makes sense that peak holiday periods would have a lot of cash availability. Many members probably take a cruise or trade to other locations during desirable times, just like a lot of people travel to Disney for the holidays.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I don't think any member really knows how the timeframe is determined. But if it is based on the actual dates the member has traded for, it still makes sense that peak holiday periods would have a lot of cash availability. Many members probably take a cruise or trade to other locations during desirable times, just like a lot of people travel to Disney for the holidays.

Well, it makes sense if you are Disney that the peak holiday seasons would be available for cash sale.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

In the industry, unrented rooms are called "breakage." No hotel operates at 100% capacity all the time, so there is always "breakage."

But it's like an empty airplane seat -- it's a loss of potential revenue, not an expense. There is nothing to write off, no tax advantage.

I think they must at some point budget on projected revenue, so there must be some impact if those rooms remain unreserved. (Love this financial talk!)