More updated Fastpass+ information

[dadddio]

So that was you took from my post?

I guess I need to be more blunt next time.

What I got out if it is that there's no point in there being angst in these threads because none of us will know how FP+ will work until it is actually launched. Was there more?

 

[sethschroeder]

Over the years they have spent many times the amount of money that someone staying club level at the GF but it's fair that the people staying at the GF for their first trip get more FP's than my cousins on their 35th trip? I don't think so.

Lets do the math -
7 billion people on earth
300+ million people in the US

That is a lot of first time people to draw to Walt Disney World
12-16 Million people go through turnstiles each year (assume average visitor goes for 7 parks days thats about 2 million different people each year)

That would take 150 years for everyone in the US to make just 1 visit to WDW

Disney unlike most big corporations has a huge customer base to be discovered (unlike your local water park which has a much lower base to draw on to get new customers)

Why wouldn't they go after the money with FP+ to give higher paying customers access to special perks in the parks to get on more rides faster.

Also look at the pricing difference:
Fort Wilderness - 7 days over 30 visits at $80 a night = $16800
Grand Floridian - $578 a night would just be 28 total days or 4 visits

I am sure Disney would rather rely on a couple coming back 4 times in 30 years as opposed to a couple coming every single year for 30 years, not to mention more than likely those staying at the GF are probably spending more as its a 1 time a decade trip as opposed to just the normal yearly trip.

 

[Turn the Page]

Lets do the math -
7 billion people on earth
300+ million people in the US

That is a lot of first time people to draw to Walt Disney World
12-16 Million people go through turnstiles each year (assume average visitor goes for 7 parks days thats about 2 million different people each year)

That would take 150 years for everyone in the US to make just 1 visit to WDW

Disney unlike most big corporations has a huge customer base to be discovered (unlike your local water park which has a much lower base to draw on to get new customers)

Why wouldn't they go after the money with FP+ to give higher paying customers access to special perks in the parks to get on more rides faster.

Also look at the pricing difference:
Fort Wilderness - 7 days over 30 visits at $80 a night = $16800
Grand Floridian - $578 a night would just be 28 total days or 4 visits

I am sure Disney would rather rely on a couple coming back 4 times in 30 years as opposed to a couple coming every single year for 30 years, not to mention more than likely those staying at the GF are probably spending more as its a 1 time a decade trip as opposed to just the normal yearly trip.

Because the cost of the camp site is only one small part of the total amount they spend there. They buy park tickets each time, spend money on souvenirs, spend money on dining, etc.

And yes, Disney does have a huge pool of potential customers but still, the vast majority of people who visit will only visit once or twice. That's why companies try to hard to develop repeat customers. The people who come back over and over again are the ones who will spend more money at Disney World than the people who just go once or twice, even if they do stay at GF club level when they come.

Plus, the people who have been dozens of times are the people who go home and tell people how much they love Disney World and encourage others to go also. The person who goes to GF club level once likely doesn't encourage others to go as much as those who go over and over again. Why? Because they probably didn't love it as much or they would go again.

 

[2Tiggies]

That's my problem with the whole thing. It's a zero sum game. If they start moving a bunch of people UP in the line, that means a bunch of others have to move DOWN.

Precisely!

Sorry life is not fair. Some people have more, not because they are "blessed" but because they work darn hard. There is already great disparity in the parks due to economic resources. Some can't afford to eat at CRT or other character dinners, is it unfair their kids don't get those unique character interactions? Some can afford private tours with unlimited FP access, should that not be allowed? Even in the beginning of WDW some could afford more ride tickets than others, was that unfair? I think Walt's vision was to have a place where all families could have a great experience, not that all families could have the SAME great experience.

I can't and don't dispute that. But I think you are missing my point. Resorts already segregate guests into various tiers, some by our own personal choices and preferences, and others by economic factors. But these character meals and additional tours are extras. Rides, attractions, parades and fireworks are the reason the majority of us buy park tickets. I can experience what I feel is a value packed day at the parks without character meals. We used to do them in the past and choose not to do them now because we are at a different stage of interests as DD has got older. But tell us that we can only FP BTMR once and two other attractions and (assuming they proceed with the anticipated 3 per day, tiered approach) or face the prospect of standing in long lines and wasting park time makes me think twice about what we might actually be getting for the price of our park entry. Is just 'being there' worth x dollars a day? For some, perhaps. For me, no. I completely respect everyone's different points of view because as people, we are all different and we want different things out of our respective trips. But I am fairly confident that I am not alone in my take on this.

 

[fbb]

Isn't it possible to be disappointed on both counts? Maybe they would have chosen a FP for the afternoon parade or for Wishes had they known they wouldn't be watching the night parade. It is possible to have the night parade cancelled but have Wishes go on as planned. Or maybe Wishes was at 10, went off fine, then the rain started and the parade was cancelled. Too bad, so sad. Missed opportunity. But isn't that technology cool?

IMO, just rewards for those who would use a FP for a parade or Wishes.

 

[dadddio]

IMO, just rewards for those who would use a FP for a parade or Wishes.

The fact is, it's no different than having a late day FP for your fave ride and then it going down. It's a bummer, but the busted ride is the angst, not the FP opportunity cost.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The fact is, it's no different than having a late day FP for your fave ride and then it going down. It's a bummer, but the busted ride is the angst, not the FP opportunity cost.

But currently if the ride opens again before the park closes, you'd be able to use your expired FP to ride it. If the final MSEP of the night is cancelled, there is no other potential use for that FP

 

[crazycatlady]

Precisely!



I can't and don't dispute that. But I think you are missing my point. Resorts already segregate guests into various tiers, some by our own personal choices and preferences, and others by economic factors. But these character meals and additional tours are extras. Rides, attractions, parades and fireworks are the reason the majority of us buy park tickets. I can experience what I feel is a value packed day at the parks without character meals. We used to do them in the past and choose not to do them now because we are at a different stage of interests as DD has got older. But tell us that we can only FP BTMR once and two other attractions and (assuming they proceed with the anticipated 3 per day, tiered approach) or face the prospect of standing in long lines and wasting park time makes me think twice about what we might actually be getting for the price of our park entry. Is just 'being there' worth x dollars a day? For some, perhaps. For me, no. I completely respect everyone's different points of view because as people, we are all different and we want different things out of our respective trips. But I am fairly confident that I am not alone in my take on this.

You are not alone.

 

[doggydoc]

Precisely!



I can't and don't dispute that. But I think you are missing my point. Resorts already segregate guests into various tiers, some by our own personal choices and preferences, and others by economic factors. But these character meals and additional tours are extras. Rides, attractions, parades and fireworks are the reason the majority of us buy park tickets. I can experience what I feel is a value packed day at the parks without character meals. We used to do them in the past and choose not to do them now because we are at a different stage of interests as DD has got older. But tell us that we can only FP BTMR once and two other attractions and (assuming they proceed with the anticipated 3 per day, tiered approach) or face the prospect of standing in long lines and wasting park time makes me think twice about what we might actually be getting for the price of our park entry. Is just 'being there' worth x dollars a day? For some, perhaps. For me, no. I completely respect everyone's different points of view because as people, we are all different and we want different things out of our respective trips. But I am fairly confident that I am not alone in my take on this.

But that is question of your personal perception of value for your dollar and not about "fairness". The arguments in favor of limiting and tiering of FP's are that it is more "fair" than the current system. That certainly is debatable. My point is that the ability to increase your personal experience through paid extras is a long standing Disney practice. The addition of increased FP access is no different and certainly no less "fair" than any of the long-standing examples I have already mentioned.

 

[sethschroeder]

Because the cost of the camp site is only one small part of the total amount they spend there. They buy park tickets each time, spend money on souvenirs, spend money on dining, etc.

And yes, Disney does have a huge pool of potential customers but still, the vast majority of people who visit will only visit once or twice. That's why companies try to hard to develop repeat customers. The people who come back over and over again are the ones who will spend more money at Disney World than the people who just go once or twice, even if they do stay at GF club level when they come.

Plus, the people who have been dozens of times are the people who go home and tell people how much they love Disney World and encourage others to go also. The person who goes to GF club level once likely doesn't encourage others to go as much as those who go over and over again. Why? Because they probably didn't love it as much or they would go again.

GF Club Level would run you around $800-1000 a night which in turn means for the hotel portion 16-20 nights at Disney to spend just as much as your friends.

Also you talk about tickets sure that is a piece ($380 with everything / person) but you forget about the dining that your friends most likely don't do that the people going 2-3 times in 30 years would.

$200-300+ a day by going to "signature" restaurants on the premise
special safaris (200+)
special experiences like that of the 4th floor at GF (250+)
fireworks cruise (300+)

Also when you are talking about the GF its not like they can't book those same exact rooms for when those people don't come the very next year and take 10 years off between trips. So now we are talking about different people each year having their "first" disney experience and unloading into disney's pockets.

Disney does want people to come to the value resorts and they are a good source of run-rate revenue to ensure there is enough money coming in at all times. In the end when they start charging 600/700/800+ for a night at the deluxe they need to show value and FP+ is a potential for them to show free value. (Free to disney because they don't have to pay for it but value because without the throw in there might be a charge to use the service)

 

[dadddio]

GF Club Level would run you around $800-1000 a night which in turn means for the hotel portion 16-20 nights at Disney to spend just as much as your friends.

Also you talk about tickets sure that is a piece ($380 with everything / person) but you forget about the dining that your friends most likely don't do that the people going 2-3 times in 30 years would.

$200-300+ a day by going to "signature" restaurants on the premise
special safaris (200+)
special experiences like that of the 4th floor at GF (250+)
fireworks cruise (300+)

Also when you are talking about the GF its not like they can't book those same exact rooms for when those people don't come the very next year and take 10 years off between trips. So now we are talking about different people each year having their "first" disney experience and unloading into disney's pockets.

Disney does want people to come to the value resorts and they are a good source of run-rate revenue to ensure there is enough money coming in at all times. In the end when they start charging 600/700/800+ for a night at the deluxe they need to show value and FP+ is a potential for them to show free value. (Free to disney because they don't have to pay for it but value because without the throw in there might be a charge to use the service)

If they were having trouble getting people to pay for GF, I would get your point, but as far as I know, they are still selling those rooms even without a FP bump.

 

[Turn the Page]

GF Club Level would run you around $800-1000 a night which in turn means for the hotel portion 16-20 nights at Disney to spend just as much as your friends.

Also you talk about tickets sure that is a piece ($380 with everything / person) but you forget about the dining that your friends most likely don't do that the people going 2-3 times in 30 years would.

$200-300+ a day by going to "signature" restaurants on the premise
special safaris (200+)
special experiences like that of the 4th floor at GF (250+)
fireworks cruise (300+)

Also when you are talking about the GF its not like they can't book those same exact rooms for when those people don't come the very next year and take 10 years off between trips. So now we are talking about different people each year having their "first" disney experience and unloading into disney's pockets.

Disney does want people to come to the value resorts and they are a good source of run-rate revenue to ensure there is enough money coming in at all times. In the end when they start charging 600/700/800+ for a night at the deluxe they need to show value and FP+ is a potential for them to show free value. (Free to disney because they don't have to pay for it but value because without the throw in there might be a charge to use the service)

And those staying at the GF do get more value for the increased price. Proximity to the Magic Kingdom, nicer rooms, nicer beds (or a bed at all versus sleeping on an air mattress in a sleeping bag), better pool, better restaurant options, better location overall, better transportation. The list goes on and on.

People staying at deluxe resorts already get more perks than those staying at value resorts or the campground. If they are paying the same ticket price to get into the park then the fact that they are staying at a deluxe resort shouldn't preclude them from waiting in line or utilizing the fastpass system like everyone else.

Someone up thread noted that some people use the VIP tours to avoid waiting in lines. I have never used one so I don't know from my own personal experience but I have read in other threads that the VIP tours do not get you to the front of the line. It's just that the tour guides have touring plans down to a science and utilize fastpasses to their full extent so those on VIP tours don't wait in long lines but not for any reason that savvy uber users couldn't do on their own without paying for VIP tours. If that's the case, the argument that people have always been able to pay extra for the privilege of not having to wait in line at the parks is inaccurate.

But yes, people have always been able to pay more for extra things like character meals and back stage tours. However, people have not paid the full ticket price only to be told that they can't go on certain rides because they didn't pay for that. In my opinion, that is the similar to saying that people who stay in a deluxe level resort get unlimited fastpasses while those staying in value resorts get 3 or whatever number they decide on.

 

[fbb]

But currently if the ride opens again before the park closes, you'd be able to use your expired FP to ride it. If the final MSEP of the night is cancelled, there is no other potential use for that FP

That, too, but I was going more with the angle that a FP for a parade or fireworks wouldn't add to my experience of them, nor would it decrease the time and energy spent to view them.

 

[2Tiggies]

But that is question of your personal perception of value for your dollar and not about "fairness". The arguments in favor of limiting and tiering of FP's are that it is more "fair" than the current system. That certainly is debatable. My point is that the ability to increase your personal experience through paid extras is a long standing Disney practice. The addition of increased FP access is no different and certainly no less "fair" than any of the long-standing examples I have already mentioned.

Again, not disagreeing with you entirely, but my personal perception is based on the distinction between the parks and resorts. While there will likely always be additional perks for those who pay more to stay at more expensive resorts (and I don't have an issue with that in principle), I do feel that your attractions and shows are the primary reason for choosing and attending parks so if they start working those privileges to cover what we have all come to expect are standard park offerings, there are folk who are going to lose out.

We could stay deluxe and do slightly shorter trips. We enjoy our favorite moderate resort and it allows us to have long stays each year. If I had to stay deluxe to get extra privileges I probably would. But we would either visit less often or just stay shorter. My issue with this would be that it would probably cost us slightly more for a shorter vacation, granted, at a 'nicer' resort, and we would in all likeliness achieve less from a day in the parks.

I really am trying not to let myself slide too far down the "I don't like this idea" road just yet without all the information because there is so much not confirmed yet - but I am having moments where I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here in a bid to stay objective.

 

[clareita]

Someone up thread noted that some people use the VIP tours to avoid waiting in lines. I have never used one so I don't know from my own personal experience but I have read in other threads that the VIP tours do not get you to the front of the line. It's just that the tour guides have touring plans down to a science and utilize fastpasses to their full extent so those on VIP tours don't wait in long lines but not for any reason that savvy uber users couldn't do on their own without paying for VIP tours. If that's the case, the argument that people have always been able to pay extra for the privilege of not having to wait in line at the parks is inaccurate.

I have a friend who did a VIP tour on her last trip, and believe me, no savvy uber users can get what they had on their tour on their own. It's not that you have a tour guide for one particular park, you can go to any park - and not on regular Disney transportation. They left MK by going out a CM only exit by Space Mountain, drove over to HS and popped out by RnR Coaster. They got in the FP line, rode it, and then got in their special van drove over to Epcot and popped out at Soarin. They had special transportation to any park and unlimited FPs on any ride that has FP. In addition to this, they had special seating reserved for parades and shows.

 

[Turn the Page]

I have a friend who did a VIP tour on her last trip, and believe me, no savvy uber users can get what they had on their tour on their own. It's not that you have a tour guide for one particular park, you can go to any park - and not on regular Disney transportation. They left MK by going out a CM only exit by Space Mountain, drove over to HS and popped out by RnR Coaster. They got in the FP line, rode it, and then got in their special van drove over to Epcot and popped out at Soarin. They had special transportatin to any park and unlimited FPs for all of these rides. In addition to this, they had special seating reserved for parades and shows.

Ok, but my point is they had to get in the FP line. They didn't just get to walk on any ride in the park through a special entrance and skip to the front of the line.

 

[doggydoc]

Someone up thread noted that some people use the VIP tours to avoid waiting in lines. I have never used one so I don't know from my own personal experience but I have read in other threads that the VIP tours do not get you to the front of the line. It's just that the tour guides have touring plans down to a science and utilize fastpasses to their full extent so those on VIP tours don't wait in long lines but not for any reason that savvy uber users couldn't do on their own without paying for VIP tours.

There are threads on here that report paid VIP tours that include unlimited line access. Not true front of the line access granted. I can also confirm that a friend of my daughters and her family have enjoyed such perks, however they are actual Disney VIP's so I don't know if it was paid.

If that's the case, the argument that people have always been able to pay extra for the privilege of not having to wait in line at the parks is inaccurate.
But yes, people have always been able to pay more for extra things like character meals and back stage tours. However, people have not paid the full ticket price only to be told that they can't go on certain rides because they didn't pay for that. In my opinion, that is the similar to saying that people who stay in a deluxe level resort get unlimited fastpasses while those staying in value resorts get 3 or whatever number they decide on.

Search some of the threads on early WDW ticket pricing. You used to have to buy ticket books with actual ride tickets in them. If your tickets ran out you were either done or you had to pay more. There have long been things like e-ticket nights, paid parties, EMH etc. that give improved access based on the ability to pay extra or where you stay.

 

[2Tiggies]

But yes, people have always been able to pay more for extra things like character meals and back stage tours. However, people have not paid the full ticket price only to be told that they can't go on certain rides because they didn't pay for that. In my opinion, that is the similar to saying that people who stay in a deluxe level resort get unlimited fastpasses while those staying in value resorts get 3 or whatever number they decide on.

You just worded that SO much better than I did

 

[FortForever]

I thought Disney had already released a statement that there would be no charge for FP+ (?)

It will be a nice surprise if all of this rolls out flawlessly and everyone loves it.

Sent from my SCH-S950C using DISBoards

 

[Robo]

It will be a nice surprise if all of this rolls out flawlessly and everyone loves it.

There are many things that operate flawlessly.

But, my post count would only be in the double-digits if everyone actually UNDERSTOOD those things.

This new FP+ thing is going to be a gigantic boon to "Disney Q&A boards" for a long, long time.