More updated Fastpass+ information

[mom2rtk]

Establish a market for selling FP+ add-ons?

Now you're just talking crazy.

 

[Angel Ariel]

People never operated under the same knowledge and information base as to what Disney allowed with FP usage.

Here's the thing, though...the people who can't be bothered to know the rules about the current FP system aren't going to be bothered to know the rules of FP+ either.

We ran into a pair in WDW last week who thought they couldn't get FPs until they used the ones they had (regardless of when they got them). Turns out they'd gotten the FPs 2 hrs prior to when we ran into them, and they were able to get new FPs right then - instead of 2+ hrs later when the return time for the FP they were holding opened.

The time when you can get another FP is clearly stated on the FP ticket, and people can't be bothered to read them. I honestly don't see that ever changing, so in that way the "playing field" will always be a bit uneven, slanted to those who *do* read the rules and pay attention.

 

[Brian Noble]

Yes, but as was my point earlier - how many of those theme parks had that expedited access available for free for over a decade before converting it to a paid system?

Perhaps if Disney had converted it to a paid system 6-7 years ago, when Universal did, there would be less consternation about the proposed changes. After having expedited access for years, I most certainly would be more upset if they changed it on me now than I would have had they changed it in FP's infancy.

Oh, I don't expect them to eliminate free access. There will still be some level of FP+ that is "free". But, the question is: how much, for how long, and will there be additional access you can buy, either directly or indirectly?

What's more, if Disney does push in this direction, I expect they will do it slowly, in boil-the-frog fashion, just as they have been doing for EMH.

Consider the following number of EMH hours in a "typical" summer week over the past three years, plus this upcoming one:

2010: MK 8, EP 7, DS 5, AK 5
2011: MK 8, EP 4, DS 4, AK 2
2012: MK 7, EP 4, DS 4, AK 2
2013: MK 3, EP 3, DS 3, AK 2

The 2013 calendar was originally published with 5 weekly EMH hours in MK (two 2-hour PM, one AM), but they canceled the Friday PM session when they revised the calendar on the 15th. So, over four years, they went from 25 total EMH hours to 11.

That's substantial---especially considering a random week in January of 2010 had 16: one three-hour PM and one one-hour AM in each park.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Establish a market for selling FP+ add-ons?

well I guess 3 free with pay for add-ons would still be better than charging for the whole shebang like they do everywhere else.

what can I say? I'm an eternally half-full glass kinda guy.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Here's the thing, though...the people who can't be bothered to know the rules about the current FP system aren't going to be bothered to know the rules of FP+ either.

We ran into a pair in WDW last week who thought they couldn't get FPs until they used the ones they had (regardless of when they got them). Turns out they'd gotten the FPs 2 hrs prior to when we ran into them, and they were able to get new FPs right then - instead of 2+ hrs later when the return time for the FP they were holding opened.

The time when you can get another FP is clearly stated on the FP ticket, and people can't be bothered to read them. I honestly don't see that ever changing, so in that way the "playing field" will always be a bit uneven, slanted to those who *do* read the rules and pay attention.

More speculation. No one knows how aggressively Disney will market the FP+ system and make it more visible and a requirement when you make general reservations online or when a guest checks in.

Yes, but the field now doesnt have any hidden features of an FP or FP+

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Oh, I don't expect them to eliminate free access. There will still be some level of FP+ that is "free". But, the question is: how much, for how long, and will there be additional access you can buy, either directly or indirectly?

What's more, if Disney does push in this direction, I expect they will do it slowly, in boil-the-frog fashion, just as they have been doing for EMH.

Consider the following number of EMH hours in a "typical" summer week over the past three years, plus this upcoming one:

2010: MK 8, EP 7, DS 5, AK 5
2011: MK 8, EP 4, DS 4, AK 2
2012: MK 7, EP 4, DS 4, AK 2
2013: MK 3, EP 3, DS 3, AK 2

The 2013 calendar was originally published with 5 weekly EMH hours in MK (two 2-hour PM, one AM), but they canceled the Friday PM session when they revised the calendar on the 15th. So, over four years, they went from 25 total EMH hours to 11.

That's substantial---especially considering a random week in January of 2010 had 16: one three-hour PM and one one-hour AM in each park.

Reg Park hours expanded though right? At least for this summer they did for sure.

The dininng plan would be another example that fits your boil the frog approach. That thing used to be like $40 a day with tips and appie. Now it's $55 with neither.

 

[Tekneek]

DDP is a great example, just like EMH. They start extending something that actually is a value. People start using it. Slowly, the value decreases. People are already hooked on it and aren't noticing the declining value. Profit!

 

[Nancy F]

Don't hate me but... I'd be willing to pay BIG BUCKS to have unlimited FP. But I don't want to have to tour the parks with a Cast Member. The Hubby and I choose to vacation sans family and friends. Why would we want to have a stranger tag along. No VIP tours for us.
Nancy

 

[Tekneek]

Don't hate me but... I'd be willing to pay BIG BUCKS to have unlimited FP. But I don't want to have to tour the parks with a Cast Member. The Hubby and I choose to vacation sans family and friends. Why would we want to have a stranger tag along. No VIP tours for us.
Nancy

I'm pretty sure Disney will not orphan their VIP tour business. Only way to FP everything will require that VIP tour. Now, they might let you buy into the next best thing at a lower amount.

 

[Wood Nymph]

If the purpose of introducing FP+ is so that mom, dad and the two kids can have a ride on TCM that is guaranteed to them, thereby bringing them back for more, then wouldn't selling fast pass pluses to the highest bidder achieve the opposite? They want to increase the ability of all guests to have an equal chance to get a fast pass. Selling them to the highest bidder wouldn't fit that purpose.

To be honest, I don't think Disney wants to encourage the guest who will ride Space Mountain ten times in a row. Multiply that by large groups of heavy ride users, and you get fast pass sell outs and long ride lines.That kind of ride usage by large quantities of guests might be part of the reason that Disney is looking to level the playing field.

 

[grimley1968]

I know it's kinda late for it, and I'm not going to participate in debate about it, but I just wanted to say thanks to the OP for posting the link in the original post. It really is good information.

 

[clareita]

More speculation. No one knows how aggressively Disney will market the FP+ system and make it more visible and a requirement when you make general reservations online or when a guest checks in.

Yes, but the field now doesnt have any hidden features of an FP or FP+

It is irrelevant how much or in what way Disney markets FP. They could have commercials, billboards, banners over your online reservation, and some people will still be wandering around the park wondering what a FP is. At the end of the day, those of us who exercise even the barest modicum of thought and planning will make better use of what Disney offers to everyone.

It never ceases to amaze me that people will pay thousands of dollars, or maybe even just hundreds of dollars if they are local, on a WDW vacation and yet be unwilling to spend $15 on a guide book. Or even bother checking one out of the library at no cost.

 

[Turn the Page]

It is irrelevant how much or in what way Disney markets FP. They could have commercials, billboards, banners over your online reservation, and some people will still be wandering around the park wondering what a FP is. At the end of the day, those of us who exercise even the barest modicum of thought and planning will make better use of what Disney offers to everyone.

It never ceases to amaze me that people will pay thousands of dollars, or maybe even just hundreds of dollars if they are local, on a WDW vacation and yet be unwilling to spend $15 on a guide book. Or even bother checking one out of the library for no cost.

Or even just take a quick glance through a times guide or park map when they get there. Like I said earlier, you just can't fix stupid. No matter how many advertising dollars you throw at it.

 

[Brian Noble]

Reg Park hours expanded though right? At least for this summer they did for sure.

The dininng plan would be another example that fits your boil the frog approach. That thing used to be like $40 a day with tips and appie. Now it's $55 with neither.

I don't think so, at least not by that much. "Typical" summer hours.

2010: MK 9-11, EP 9-9, DS 9-10, AK 9-8
2011: MK 9-12 (some 11, some 1), EP 9-9, DS 9-10, AK 9-8.
2012: MK 9-11, EP 9-9, DS 9-10, AK 9-8 (some 7)
2013: MK 9-11, EP 9-9, DS 9-10, AK 9-8 (some 7)

And yes, the Dining Plan was the other thing I was thinking of.

 

[UNCFanatik]

It is irrelevant how much or in what way Disney markets FP. They could have commercials, billboards, banners over your online reservation, and some people will still be wandering around the park wondering what a FP is. At the end of the day, those of us who exercise even the barest modicum of thought and planning will make better use of what Disney offers to everyone.

It never ceases to amaze me that people will pay thousands of dollars, or maybe even just hundreds of dollars if they are local, on a WDW vacation and yet be unwilling to spend $15 on a guide book. Or even bother checking one out of the library at no cost.

yes, in the past people have displayed that behavior. I fully agree.

However, it remains to be seen what will be done by Disney in order to funnel people to the FP+ system. To achieve their stated goals, they need people to fully utilize the FP+ system. They known that say for example 25% usage of FP+s will not work. you underestimate the importance of having guest use the FP+ system in the over all grand scheme of things. They will be more motivated more than ever to make sure FP usage increases.

I predict you will see an overall increase in FP usage. There is my bit of speculation

 

[EagleScout]

Or even just take a quick glance through a times guide or park map when they get there. Like I said earlier, you just can't fix stupid. No matter how many advertising dollars you throw at it.

As others have mentioned, many people who do not fully utilize the current FP system are not "stupid", but rather fall into one of two categories _ 1) travel with family members/friends whose dynamics (little ones, seniors, etc) are not conducive to the typical 'super FP user", or 2) choose not to, even though technically capable.

 

[Love Tink]

It never ceases to amaze me that people will pay thousands of dollars, or maybe even just hundreds of dollars if they are local, on a WDW vacation and yet be unwilling to spend $15 on a guide book. Or even bother checking one out of the library at no cost.

There are many people who know that the earliest hours are the best for empty park touring but who still choose to arrive at 11:00am, because to them, vacation doesn't mean get up early.

There are people who wait 45 minutes to be seated at a restaurant, then another 90 minutes eating, losing hours of park time to have a meal that's as tasty as your typical chain restaurant yet twice as expensive...because to them vacation includes certain restaurants.

There are many people who spend up to $75 per person per day for a park ticket, yet spend hours by the hotel pool instead of in the parks. Somehow, those behaviors don't "amaze" anyone on here.

Not everyone wants to spend time planning or reading guide books. Some people - a lot of people - are just fine with showing up and letting the chips fall where they may. They may spend more time in lines, they may not eat at the restaurants you want would choose to eat at, but they still enjoy WDW.

 

[dadddio]

I agree they're trying to reach a happy medium for both kinds of guests as you have described.
A concern of mine is that if some guests haven't got a clue how to get a FP or, how it works and that it is free, this whole new experience could overwhelm them. I'm sure Disney will market/advertise this well, like they have with regular FP, but some guests will remain clueless and will be most likely reporting back to surveys with the same feedback as the one posted about guests' 'terrifying experience'.
If there is going to be an 'x amount of days' you can pre book in advance, will the people who like to sleep in be able to get up and be ready to get their desired times? Some will, some won't.

If FP remains operational when FP+ rolls out fully, even if for a short period, would there be anything to stop a family using FP+ to pre book evening times for attractions at DHS, and buy 1 day non park hopper tickets that they could use at RD for DHS to use regular FP?
If the family were staying at say, Beach Club, this could easily be done.
Can Disney prevent that at all? If the 1 day ticket was paid with the same credit card used to buy the RFID tickets/magic bands/package, is it possible the sale couldn't be made to that family?

I couldnt imagine Disney wanting to stop that sale.

 

[dadddio]

Are they going to drop the "plus" part of it? That in itself, I'd imagine would be confusing to a lot of people since "plus" tends to mean premium in the marketing world. Or paid.

If the changes to the FP queues are an indication, which they almost certainly are, they are keeping the +. It's far more likely that what get's dropped is the 'no plus'.

I think they could very easily prevent it. From what I have read, and i don't know if this is supposition or based in fact, in order to make FP+ reservations in advance you will have to enter your ticket serial number so the FP+ reservations would effectively be tied to that ticket. If a family buys one day passes the serial numbers won't match with the ticket attached to the reservation.

All they would do is create a second profile for the second active ticket.

The thing that would stop it is the turnstyle at the park entrance gate. Right now a person can't walk into a park with a handful of tickets and go to a fast pass machine to pull fast passes for their friends. Everyone has to go through the turnstyle. The system could be set up, or maybe it is now, that there is only one ticket per person, and that person could not enter a park on one ticket, then enter another park the same day on another ticket. It wouldn't be that difficult for Disney to program it that way. They already scan your fingerprint.

I don't think that the biometrics that they get from that scan is good enough for them to rely on it to keep the second paying customer out of the park.

And FP+ is way more difficult. FP was incredibly simple in comparison. I remember seeing it on the map and wondering what FP meant. I read the blurb and immediately figured out how we could use this. I got fastpasses for a ride while my wife and son got food and a table. I came back with the fastpasses we used to bypass a line after we finished our meal.

Now, I was in the "gifted program" back in school, but I didn't find it to be a high level or complicated program to understand. In comparison, FP+/My Magic+/My Disney Experience is way more complicated. People have been going over the available information for months and we're constantly figuring out some new portion of the program. Just read through the Terms of Service sometime. It's a level of complexity that FP never got close to.

I disagree. From an in-park user standpoint, it's probably as easy or easier. As easy because instead of going to FP machines near each ride, they just go to the one FP machine and schedule multiple rides. Easier because if they have a smartphone, they don't have to go anywhere. A person could could join his wife and kid to eat lunch and schedule the FPs without ever setting down his sandwich.

 

[dadddio]

And since Disney is in the market to sell more tickets, I can't imagine why they would actually try to prevent it. I would never pay the price of a second admission for a few fastpasses.

For some reason, when I read your post what flashed into my brain is that the ten-day non-expiring pass is believed to be going away.