moral question: would you have more kids?

[NotUrsula]

Also, while your pg, the doctors sometimes still can't tell 100% if there will be something "wrong" with the child. My BFF was told that her youngest would probably have problems. Many people (including me, I'm ashamed to say now) were telling her and her husband to have an abortion. Everyone is happy now that she didn't. That child is a beautiful, caring child with abosolutely nothing "wrong" with her.

There are tests and there are tests. Some only evaluate the odds of a particular condition being present, while some can definitively detect the actual presence of a condition; the latter category can be trusted, the former cannot.

However, in some cases (T21 notably being one of them) the presence of the mutation does not predict the severity of the disability, only that the abnormality is present. Some people with T21 are only mildly disabled, while some are very seriously affected with both mental and physical disabilities. Of course, T21 only rarely runs in families, so that's not a very good example for the OP's question, either, I guess, though a definitive prenatal test for it does exist.

 

[SandrA9810]

I'm just wondering if it's really that strange for me to want to take precautions like PGD or just avoid having a child at all. My family doesn't seem to get it.

And i'm not talking about ridding the world of disabled people. It can happen in many many ways, and even taking precautions isn't a 100% safe guard. I love my brother, he's got syndrome G (and it's been reported that fragile X is connected to it, and passed along in other members).

My sister's oldest son has fragile X, diagnosed sometime around 2-3. And she was tested as well and knows she's a carrier. I don't need to be test to know I'm a carrier.

Anycase, I just got the news she's pregnant again, and planned, with child number 7. DS11, DD8, and DS6 have fragile X, DD5 is normal, DD3 is showing signs but not diagnosed yet (very little speech), DD2 is too young to tell. With the girls, even if they show the genes, it's hard to tell if it will dominate the father's good gene like it did in us.

She's already living paycheck to paycheck, off SSI for the 3 oldest, child support from the first kid (she refuses to have her hubby take parental guardianship because she'll loose the checks, even though the kid only knows him as his father), and food stamps. Everytime I talk to her, it's "ohh i have to wait till this check comes to go do this". Makes me sick. And my aunt wonder's why I got mad when I heard the news...

 

[DizBelle]

It seems to me that having children without consideration for the hardships you might put upon them is pretty selfish. Your desire to have children is outweighing their probability for a fulfilling life.

ETA: what I'm saying is that if you know there is a probability that your child will have some impairment, it should weigh into your decision. The greater the probability and the greater the impairment would weigh more heaviliy.

Who would say "I know there is a 90% chance my child will be born with no arms or legs and a 60% chance my child will never mature beyond the level of a 4 year old, but we're going to have one anyway."

 

[RitaE]

I agree it is a very loaded question. I do know families with disabled children, families with more than one disabled child, and families with a disabled child and younger siblings.

In my POV I don't think the question is necessarily .. will the baby also be affected? Let's face it, every pregnancy is a crap shoot - some have better odds than others. Your question is probably more asked in cases where the disability is associated with severe sickness, pain, and reduced quality of life.

But what they are maybe asking is "could we handle another very high needs child?"

I think many (most) parents have an almost endless amount of love. They however don't have an endless amount of time, energy, and money and when a high percentage of those things are already being taken by one child, that could very well be a no win situation to risk another.

 

[freckles and boo]

I'm just wondering if it's really that strange for me to want to take precautions like PGD or just avoid having a child at all. My family doesn't seem to get it.

And i'm not talking about ridding the world of disabled people. It can happen in many many ways, and even taking precautions isn't a 100% safe guard. I love my brother, he's got syndrome G (and it's been reported that fragile X is connected to it, and passed along in other members).

My sister's oldest son has fragile X, diagnosed sometime around 2-3. And she was tested as well and knows she's a carrier. I don't need to be test to know I'm a carrier.

Anycase, I just got the news she's pregnant again, and planned, with child number 7. DS11, DD8, and DS6 have fragile X, DD5 is normal, DD3 is showing signs but not diagnosed yet (very little speech), DD2 is too young to tell. With the girls, even if they show the genes, it's hard to tell if it will dominate the father's good gene like it did in us.

She's already living paycheck to paycheck, off SSI for the 3 oldest, child support from the first kid (she refuses to have her hubby take parental guardianship because she'll loose the checks, even though the kid only knows him as his father), and food stamps. Everytime I talk to her, it's "ohh i have to wait till this check comes to go do this". Makes me sick. And my aunt wonder's why I got mad when I heard the news...

No wonder you are asking this question. People have the right to have as many children as they want. In my opinion, though, it is wrong to have more children than you can afford to raise, disabled or not. I have two kids. The older one has mild ADHD (and is otherwise typical) and the younger one has high-functioning autism (not Fragile X) and severe ADHD. They are my kids, the two I planned to have, the two I can afford to raise, the two who bring me tremendous joy. I chose not to have any testing because there has been no history in my family or my husband's, but even if I had it would have only served to give me advanced knowledge. If, however, there was a known history of something like Fragile X, I might have chosen to become a parent in a different way. I can't say. I do know that while my younger daughter has quite a few challenges, her gifts are extraordinary and more than make up for her "deficits".

 

[NotUrsula]

I'm just wondering if it's really that strange for me to want to take precautions like PGD or just avoid having a child at all. My family doesn't seem to get it.

Oh, how to put this without getting the thread closed? The answer is that the answer has become political in the U.S. If you asked the question in nearly any other country your POV would be considered logical and admirably foresighted. Here, it is too loaded and fraught with political baggage for most people to be able to look at it objectively.

Your POV is the traditional one. It used to be perfectly normal for people to avoid having biological children in order to try to avoid passing on a disease or condition that was believed to be genetic.

 

[Anjelica]

I'm just wondering if it's really that strange for me to want to take precautions like PGD or just avoid having a child at all. My family doesn't seem to get it.

And i'm not talking about ridding the world of disabled people. It can happen in many many ways, and even taking precautions isn't a 100% safe guard. I love my brother, he's got syndrome G (and it's been reported that fragile X is connected to it, and passed along in other members).

My sister's oldest son has fragile X, diagnosed sometime around 2-3. And she was tested as well and knows she's a carrier. I don't need to be test to know I'm a carrier.

Anycase, I just got the news she's pregnant again, and planned, with child number 7. DS11, DD8, and DS6 have fragile X, DD5 is normal, DD3 is showing signs but not diagnosed yet (very little speech), DD2 is too young to tell. With the girls, even if they show the genes, it's hard to tell if it will dominate the father's good gene like it did in us.

She's already living paycheck to paycheck, off SSI for the 3 oldest, child support from the first kid (she refuses to have her hubby take parental guardianship because she'll loose the checks, even though the kid only knows him as his father), and food stamps. Everytime I talk to her, it's "ohh i have to wait till this check comes to go do this". Makes me sick. And my aunt wonder's why I got mad when I heard the news...

Correct me if I am wrong in understanding:

She currently has 6 children and is pregnant with her 7th. Of her current 6 children the 3 eldest have Fragile X. The 4th child is normal. The 5th child is showing signs and the 6th child is to young to tell. WOW - that is a very tough situation.

Outside of even the fragile X diagnosis having 7 children living paycheck to paycheck is hard enough.

I can completely see why you were upset when you learned of her having a 7th planned child.

 

[AshleyW]

I can't answer for anyone else, BUT, my family has an X-linked genetic disorder that can inhibit quality of life. My grandfather had it, my mom is a carrier, and my little brother has it. There's a 50/50 shot that I'm a carrier. DF and I have talked about it, and I'm going to get tested for the disorder eventually (once I save up - it's expensive ) and if I'm a carrier, then we'll be adopting children. I've seen how it affected my grandpa and brother and wouldn't want to put a child through that.

My brother, on the other hand, is currently expecting his first child -- and my first niece/nephew! Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Scurvy]

I'm just wondering if it's really that strange for me to want to take precautions like PGD or just avoid having a child at all. My family doesn't seem to get it.

And i'm not talking about ridding the world of disabled people. It can happen in many many ways, and even taking precautions isn't a 100% safe guard. I love my brother, he's got syndrome G (and it's been reported that fragile X is connected to it, and passed along in other members).

My sister's oldest son has fragile X, diagnosed sometime around 2-3. And she was tested as well and knows she's a carrier. I don't need to be test to know I'm a carrier.

Anycase, I just got the news she's pregnant again, and planned, with child number 7. DS11, DD8, and DS6 have fragile X, DD5 is normal, DD3 is showing signs but not diagnosed yet (very little speech), DD2 is too young to tell. With the girls, even if they show the genes, it's hard to tell if it will dominate the father's good gene like it did in us.

She's already living paycheck to paycheck, off SSI for the 3 oldest, child support from the first kid (she refuses to have her hubby take parental guardianship because she'll loose the checks, even though the kid only knows him as his father), and food stamps. Everytime I talk to her, it's "ohh i have to wait till this check comes to go do this". Makes me sick. And my aunt wonder's why I got mad when I heard the news...

It sounds like there are two separate issues going on here. One is that she is choosing to have children despite the fact that there is a chance they will have a genetic disorder. That is a very personal decision. If a parent feels that a life lived with that disorder can still be a happy and fulfilling one, and that they can properly care for someone with that disorder, then it's completely reasonable for them to have children even with that risk. It's also completely reasonable for them to choose not to have children if they don't want to risk having a child with the disorder. I hope that no parent would intentionally have children that they know will be doomed to a life of unhappiness and suffering, but most genetic disorders don't lead to such a bleak life. There are many people with disorders and illnesses who have very happy lives.

The other issue is that your sister apparently is unable to properly care for the children she already has without financial help. In my opinion, if you can't afford to care for the family you already have (whether that's just you, you and a spouse, or you and any number of children) without assistance, then you don't need to be having any more children. But that has nothing to do with any sort of disorder, and everything to do with finances. No one should add members to their household if they can't afford to properly care for them, whether they are healthy or not.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Sandra,

Personally, I completely agree with your feelings.

It seems that there is a known, very high, risk for having a child who could be seriously affected.

It also seems that she is choosing to have more children than she is able to support. To be honest, I don't see how she is able to meet the other basic needs of this many disabled children, even if finances were better.

On both counts, in this case, I agree with your viewpoint.

 

[dzorn]

If you knew you had a genetic mental disorder (like autism), would you have more kids without trying to prevent the disorder from passing on??

I know there are a few mom's on here of disabled kids, and all of them would say they wouldn't change a thing about their child, that they love them no matter what. But I can't say I've met a mother of more than one genetically disabled kid (unless they adopted them). And i'm not talking about kids that wind up handicap because of something happening at birth time.

I personally don't want to have any biological kids because I know the risk I have of having disabled kids. I don't want to make their life any harder, or worry about their care when I can no longer care for them.

Well my DD has autism but I would not call her mental (Thank You Very Much). We already had another DD when she was diagnosed. We decided not to have a third after DD diagnosis. Our concern was if having another that ended up with autism also would be too much for our DD to handle when we were no longer around, especially if the diagnosis is was more severe. We also feel we have an obligation to make sure DD will have adequate funding to have a long happy life if she cannot support herself.

Another factor is DH was content with just two even before the diagnosis. I would have liked one more. If an accident would have happened we would have have welcomed another child with open hearts and would not trade the two we have for anything.

Denise in MI

 

[zachnsamsmommy]

Well...since the genetic (or possibly genetic) component of Autism is unknown, I guess I am knowingly having another without knowing why my child is Autistic.

My oldest is 9, and no problems whatsoever that we know of. DS2 was diagnosed as Autistic AFTER we found out we were pg again. So I guess we are taking a gamble with this one.

But my 3 yr old is the most wonderful, sensitive, and bright child. I would probably knowingly have another child even if there was a genetic component to autism, b/c I don't think of my child as disabled, only different.

I think the situation would be different if it was something like Tay-Sachs or Sickle Cell. In that case, I would have to weigh my options very carefully.

 

[DizBelle]

Well my DD has autism but I would not call her mental (Thank You Very Much). We already had another DD when she was diagnosed. We decided not to have a third after DD diagnosis. Our concern was if having another that ended up with autism also would be too much for our DD to handle when we were no longer around, especially if the diagnosis is was more severe. We also feel we have an obligation to make sure DD will have adequate funding to have a long happy life if she cannot support herself.

Another factor is DH was content with just two even before the diagnosis. I would have liked one more. If an accident would have happened we would have have welcomed another child with open hearts and would not trade the two we have for anything.

Denise in MI

Why do you assume that your first DD will want to or be able to "handle" your second DD at all?

 

[DawnCt1]

If you knew you had a genetic mental disorder (like autism), would you have more kids without trying to prevent the disorder from passing on??

I know there are a few mom's on here of disabled kids, and all of them would say they wouldn't change a thing about their child, that they love them no matter what. But I can't say I've met a mother of more than one genetically disabled kid (unless they adopted them). And i'm not talking about kids that wind up handicap because of something happening at birth time.

I personally don't want to have any biological kids because I know the risk I have of having disabled kids. I don't want to make their life any harder, or worry about their care when I can no longer care for them.

I don't think you can take that comment and assume that they are happy that their child is disabled. They are telling you that they love their child no matter what.

 

[eliza61]

Probably not but then again, my kids are evil alien teenagers so the thought of me having any more kids is enough for me to cut off all the portruding parts on Dh's body.

So I'm not a rational mom to ask.

 

[pigletgirl]

Of course! No guarantees that the next child would/won't have it. You gamble everytime you get pregnant. Plus there isn't a test to check for autism. Even if there was, no way would I do it! That child has every right to be loved and cared for like anyone else.

 

[DizBelle]

Of course! No guarantees that the next child would/won't have it. You gamble everytime you get pregnant. Plus there isn't a test to check for autism. Even if there was, no way would I do it! That child has every right to be loved and cared for like anyone else.

You wouldn't want to be armed with the information if you could be? Isn't that doing a disservice to your child?

 

[Luv Bunnies]

Our older son is autistic and our younger one is not. Since it is still unknown whether autism is genetic, I would not take the risk and have another child. We only planned to have two, but we did discuss the fact that we definitely wouldn't want a third one given the possibility.

I had a student in my special ed preschool class several years ago. His father had a devastating skin condition. When kids have it, they get huge water-filled blisters all over their skin that are very painful. The skin is very fragile and can't be rubbed or it will tear. It's a genetic condition more common in boys. The parents were told that 25% of their children were likely to have the condition. So they had two boys and neither had the condition. At that point, I would stop and not press my luck!!! But, they really wanted to try for a girl so they had another one. Guess what? It was a boy...with the skin condition. He ended up in my class because he had some cognitive delays that weren't related to the condition. This poor little boy was miserable all the time. He had blisters on the bottoms of his feet and would limp so we pulled him around the school in a wagon. He was very sweet and I'm not saying he shouldn't have born. I do feel the parents tempted fate. The mom confided to me that she wished they'd thought harder before having a 3rd child. They also ended up having a 4th child who was a girl.

 

[pigletgirl]

You wouldn't want to be armed with the information if you could be? Isn't that doing a disservice to your child?

Oh I definitely would want to be after he/she was born. But I couldn't get through an entire pregnancy worrying about the 'what ifs'. Each child's situation is so unique that and spectrum is so great you wouldn't know until they got here how disabled they actually were.

After being informed, I would research all of the resources available to me and go from there.

Catch my drift?

 

[freckles and boo]

I don't think you can take that comment and assume that they are happy that their child is disabled. They are telling you that they love their child no matter what.

Thank you. I am sure that there are some freaky attention junkies who get satisfaction from having a kid with a disability or illness, but most of us are just raising our kids, doing what we need to do, and hoping for some emotional support along the way. I do have to say, though, that while I would never have wished autism on my daughter, I am not willing to go to scary places to "cure" her. She receives lots of conventional therapies and social skills training but she will never be put in a hyperbaric chamber, have chelation drugs injected, take dangerous hormones, be put on extreme diets and vitamin regimens, go without life saving vaccines, or otherwise be put at risk in search of a "cure". I suppose some may see the fact that I am not willing to try EVERYTHING as complacency.