Moral/Ethical Question regarding allergies

[bumbershoot]

I see no issue with saying allergy.

I have celiac and am always asked if its an allergy or a preference.

At Disney?

This is part of where the frustration of restaurants comes in when people claim to have a food allergy and then do things like "cheat" and have a bit of their family member's dessert that contains the supposed allergen, or say "well just a little is ok" when told something has to be excluded because it contains the ingredient. When things like that happen enough, you end up with the eye rolling, disbelief and other issues that people with genuine food allergies sometimes experience when they try to eat out.

Eye rolling etc is only going to happen if the eye roller is already a jerk. And before that point they have to have noticed that someone was having a bite and then remembered it. And, again, is already a jerk.

Just the act of someone saying they have an allergy when they don’t... doesn’t make others not believe the next person.

re: Epipen. I have however been asked sometimes at non-Disney restaurants in multiple cities.

That’s ridiculous of them. Not all allergies are anaphylactic. Not everyone can afford epipens. And what, if you say no they’ll not be as careful? Be more careful?

Are they saying that they are so sloppy in their kitchens that you’d better have an epipen just in case? That’s the question I’d be asking. With a carrying tone of voice. Before I left.

 

[chelleb1974]

I never thought about that. I have thyrooid cancer and soy is the Kryptonite to it. I just avoid it as in tofu - soy sauce is, of course, not the same thing. You've given me something to think about.

Yes, that is the only exception to 'no soy'. Naturally fermented soy sauce is fine, and I need to research which brands are naturally fermented vs chemically fermented. I have been avoiding soy for the better part of 10 years, out of preference, but now it's a necessity to prevent my cancer from returning.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Disney is really good with working with allergies. It's really not a moral issue at all. My son is allergic to soy and when you start looking at labels, especially of processed/fast foods, almost all of it contains some sort of soy. It's even in things you wouldn't suspect.

Could not have said it better myself, so I'm just going to agree with your quote! Not only is Disney concerned and respectful of the allergies, but their chefs appear to have been trained in what to ask and what to watch for when someone has an allergy. It's a big deal. Some allergies can be life-threatening, as many of you know. NEVER hesitate to ask at any restaurant, but especially Disney.

 

[chelleb1974]

This.

For restaurants that have good allergy control practices, stating that one has a food allergy to "x" will trigger a protocol that involves a fair bit of work on the part of the restaurant. At the least it should mean verification of ingredients, and that your food will be prepared separately on a freshly cleaned surface using clean utensils. For many it means that ONE person is responsible for cooking the mean from end to end [whereas normally multiple people may be responsible for different parts], and in some restaurants that person will be a supervisor or manager or senior chef. Some restaurants use a special "allergy kit" with color coded utensils etc -- all clean of course. Some kitchens have a special area of the kitchen that is used, while others will make a clean area [and not just a wiping down, a good process is more thorough]. Other steps may be involved as well. And of course, modifications to the actual recipes may be needed to exclude or substitute things.

For ingredients it means some things won't be done or will be done differently out of an abundance of caution. So for example, there is one restaurant we go to where I always get a steak. They cook some seafood on one end of the grill and the steaks on the other end, with space in between, but the chefs and managers have always said that even though there shouldnt be cross-contamination out of an abundance of caution they would prefer to pan fry the steak and confirm with me if that is ok, which of course it is. I am glad they have the conversation with me [and I have had some amazing food allergy conversations with restaurant staff over the years - some are so knowledgable and passionate]. It can sometimes mean a relatively bland meal as sauces and spices may need to be cut out and there may not be ready replacements.

All of those things are done to prevent both the allergen being present as an ingredient and to prevent it accidentally being introduced through cross-contact/contamination, where even trace amounts can trigger reactions.

This is different from dealing with a food preference, where while avoiding the ingredient is important, trace amounts from cross contact/contamination are not likely to be an issue nor have the potential to trigger a life-threatening reaction or illness. The kitchen process is usually different.

This is part of where the frustration of restaurants comes in when people claim to have a food allergy and then do things like "cheat" and have a bit of their family member's dessert that contains the supposed allergen, or say "well just a little is ok" when told something has to be excluded because it contains the ingredient. When things like that happen enough, you end up with the eye rolling, disbelief and other issues that people with genuine food allergies sometimes experience when they try to eat out. If you google, there have been many articles written on the topic.

As someone with anaphylaxis to multiple foods, when I eat out, my food is my food. There is no eating from someone else's plate as that food hasn't been prepared with the allergen in mind; though others at my table may steal from MY plate because they don't have allergies and want to e.g. try my wedge potatoes when they got the normal hash browns ;-)

Back to the OP's question.

I don' think there is a problem with saying you have a soy allergy, provided you understand the implications of doing so for the kitchen and your meal, and that you are consistent with it throughout [eg no stealing a fry from someone else's plate.. they may be pre-cooked in some soy oil...].

If you aren't comfortable with that, then explain that your doctor has you on a soy-free diet or that you can't have soy for medical reasons. You may be asked if trace amounts or cross-contamination are ok, so decide ahead of time what your answer would be. [if you decide trace amounts are not ok, you can be upfront: you can't have soy for medical reasons and avoid even trace amounts].

Also, as another poster pointed out, certain forms of soy are not considered allergens under food labelling laws, so if you also need to avoid those, you need to include that when having the conversation with the staff. Be clear and specific.

Finally, regardless of which choice you make, I strongly suggest you consider carrying a chef card. With just one "allergen" you can make them business card size if you want [mine with more are 4x6 cards]. Carry them with you wherever you go that way you always have some on hand. I have found Chef cards both help tremendously with communicating my allergies, as well as demonstrate that I am serious about them.

Some resources you may find useful:

FARE's dining out resources:
https://www.foodallergy.org/resources/dining-out
FARE's food allergy chef cards (templates in multiple languages):
https://www.foodallergy.org/resources/food-allergy-chef-cards
Allergy & Anaphylaxis Australia's chef card templates:
https://allergyfacts.org.au/resources/chef-card-template
Finally, a couple articles about the issue of people claiming a food allergy when they don't have one:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/food-allergies-resaurants-1.4127854
https://www.allergicliving.com/2017/02/16/consequences-faking-food-allergy/
Good luck !

SW

Thank you so much for sharing all of this!! It has opened my eyes to things I had not thought about. I will definitely think about allergy vs avoidance and talk to my doctor as well about it, fortunately I have a year+ until our next trip.

 

[crisi]

The only down side to claiming an allergy is that Disney takes allergies VERY seriously - so you may get stuck with a level of concern and care that you do not feel is warranted. It sounds like you are fine with that though. And that the level of concern and care DOES involve more work for the kitchen.

I have a gluten intolerance. And if I eat a lot of gluten I can get sort of miserable - so I avoid eating - say a ton of bread. But it won't trigger on the amount of gluten in things that aren't bread products. I can even do - say cheesecake or souffle or something with a small amount of flour in it. And if my tummy revolts, I spend a few hours close to a bathroom or get a horrible headache, I don't end up dead or in the hospital. I don't say I have a gluten intolerance at Disney because they are TOO careful and sometimes I want to risk the souffle without having an argument with the waitstaff.

(It would be nice if we developed a decent language to address the variations in food requirements - somewhere on one end of the scale is preference "I prefer if my food doesn't contain green peppers - I don't like them" there are the religious ethical kosher/halal/vegetarian food restrictions - no one is going to die, but it sure isn't nice to feed someone keeping kosher a piecrust made with lard or pass off your bean soup as vegetarian when you made it with chicken stock. Then there are food intolerances - like mine - I'm not going to die on you, and I might choose to risk a trigger if the cake looks really good or I need a slice of pizza. And food health restrictions, like the OPs, or people who have celiac - where you aren't calling an ambulance, but there could be a lot of long term harm (and they might also make the choice to eat something they shouldn't as a treat once in a while - but that should be their choice). And allergies, where you can have someone drop dead in your restaurant. All need to be respected, but not all require the same level of care in the kitchen.)

 

[aristocatz]

Hi Everyone,

I have a moral/ethical question as it related to food allergies. I was diagnosed last year with ovarian cancer, and was told it was estrogen dependent and that I should avoid eating soy because it could likely encourage the cancer to come back. What are people's opinions on stating that I have a soy allergy to be sure I avoid it as much as I can?

Thank you,
Michelle

I see no issue with this whatsoever & admittedly I do the same. I do not have an allergy, but I do have a condition that is aggravated by certain ingredients, so I avoid them to avoid physical discomfort. I see no harm in this & I try to keep it simple. I only request that the foods in question are omitted from the meal, I don't request special substitutions. It's typically pretty easy to accommodate.

Best of luck to you in your journey ❤

 

[cobright]

I have a moral/ethical question as it related to food allergies. I was diagnosed last year with ovarian cancer, and was told it was estrogen dependent and that I should avoid eating soy because it could likely encourage the cancer to come back. What are people's opinions on stating that I have a soy allergy to be sure I avoid it as much as I can?

Moral/ethical ... because this feels like you are being dishonest? Put that notion aside. What you are engaging in here is not deception; think of it more like a communications shorthand. Consider this... a friend of mine has a game leg. Nerve damage from his time in Iraq makes it behave unpredictably. It's actually very hard to explain without spending time doing so. After the first day at WDW a couple years ago he tells me he went and bought a leg brace. He didn't need it. But it was just so much easier to get the CM attention and point to the braced leg. Wordlessly, everything he needed to say was conveyed.

To the people you would tell this to, they don't really care about the particulars. You're not cheating them out of anything. You're doing them the favor of putting your request into the simplest terms.

 

[Happy Artist]

This.

For restaurants that have good allergy control practices, stating that one has a food allergy to "x" will trigger a protocol that involves a fair bit of work on the part of the restaurant. At the least it should mean verification of ingredients, and that your food will be prepared separately on a freshly cleaned surface using clean utensils. For many it means that ONE person is responsible for cooking the mean from end to end [whereas normally multiple people may be responsible for different parts], and in some restaurants that person will be a supervisor or manager or senior chef. Some restaurants use a special "allergy kit" with color coded utensils etc -- all clean of course. Some kitchens have a special area of the kitchen that is used, while others will make a clean area [and not just a wiping down, a good process is more thorough]. Other steps may be involved as well. And of course, modifications to the actual recipes may be needed to exclude or substitute things.

For ingredients it means some things won't be done or will be done differently out of an abundance of caution. So for example, there is one restaurant we go to where I always get a steak. They cook some seafood on one end of the grill and the steaks on the other end, with space in between, but the chefs and managers have always said that even though there shouldnt be cross-contamination out of an abundance of caution they would prefer to pan fry the steak and confirm with me if that is ok, which of course it is. I am glad they have the conversation with me [and I have had some amazing food allergy conversations with restaurant staff over the years - some are so knowledgable and passionate]. It can sometimes mean a relatively bland meal as sauces and spices may need to be cut out and there may not be ready replacements.

All of those things are done to prevent both the allergen being present as an ingredient and to prevent it accidentally being introduced through cross-contact/contamination, where even trace amounts can trigger reactions.

This is different from dealing with a food preference, where while avoiding the ingredient is important, trace amounts from cross contact/contamination are not likely to be an issue nor have the potential to trigger a life-threatening reaction or illness. The kitchen process is usually different.

This is part of where the frustration of restaurants comes in when people claim to have a food allergy and then do things like "cheat" and have a bit of their family member's dessert that contains the supposed allergen, or say "well just a little is ok" when told something has to be excluded because it contains the ingredient. When things like that happen enough, you end up with the eye rolling, disbelief and other issues that people with genuine food allergies sometimes experience when they try to eat out. If you google, there have been many articles written on the topic.

As someone with anaphylaxis to multiple foods, when I eat out, my food is my food. There is no eating from someone else's plate as that food hasn't been prepared with the allergen in mind; though others at my table may steal from MY plate because they don't have allergies and want to e.g. try my wedge potatoes when they got the normal hash browns ;-)

Back to the OP's question.

I don' think there is a problem with saying you have a soy allergy, provided you understand the implications of doing so for the kitchen and your meal, and that you are consistent with it throughout [eg no stealing a fry from someone else's plate.. they may be pre-cooked in some soy oil...].

If you aren't comfortable with that, then explain that your doctor has you on a soy-free diet or that you can't have soy for medical reasons. You may be asked if trace amounts or cross-contamination are ok, so decide ahead of time what your answer would be. [if you decide trace amounts are not ok, you can be upfront: you can't have soy for medical reasons and avoid even trace amounts].

Also, as another poster pointed out, certain forms of soy are not considered allergens under food labelling laws, so if you also need to avoid those, you need to include that when having the conversation with the staff. Be clear and specific.

Finally, regardless of which choice you make, I strongly suggest you consider carrying a chef card. With just one "allergen" you can make them business card size if you want [mine with more are 4x6 cards]. Carry them with you wherever you go that way you always have some on hand. I have found Chef cards both help tremendously with communicating my allergies, as well as demonstrate that I am serious about them.

Some resources you may find useful:

FARE's dining out resources:
https://www.foodallergy.org/resources/dining-out
FARE's food allergy chef cards (templates in multiple languages):
https://www.foodallergy.org/resources/food-allergy-chef-cards
Allergy & Anaphylaxis Australia's chef card templates:
https://allergyfacts.org.au/resources/chef-card-template
Finally, a couple articles about the issue of people claiming a food allergy when they don't have one:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/food-allergies-resaurants-1.4127854
https://www.allergicliving.com/2017/02/16/consequences-faking-food-allergy/
Good luck !

SW

This is a great idea! I am going to do this for my next trip!

 

[JennyHoo]

I think that no one will blame you for not eating soy. This is a necessary measure.

 

[Dug720]

It is a medical reason which IMHO can be listed as an allergy with no issues. As others have said, allergies can present differently. I have a wheat allergy which results in lowered lung capacity (basically it makes my breathing the equivalent of breathing through a plastic coffee stir worst-case and a regular straw best-case). When I was tested for peanuts, which I know I react to with an itchy/burny chin and mouth in spite of a negative result (yes I avoid them), it did show positive for wheat - I did not think I was reacting to it, so I kept eating it. A few years ago when there was the whole “eliminate gluten to cut belly fat” I asked my doctor what her thoughts were. She asked if I had been tested for a wheat allergy (my allergist was different than my doctor) and when I said “Well, technically...” she suggested I eliminate wheat/gluten and see how my body reacted. My “reactive airway” completely went away and I barely needed my rescue inhaler and my air flow increased dramatically. So I eat gluten-free because of a wheat allergy which, though not anaphylactic, does make me wheeze and inhibits my breathing. Because so many only associate eating gluten-free with celiac, I often get accused of it being a “preference” but there is a legit medical reason - a wheat ALLERGY.

IMHO in your case I would not have one iota of guilt over marking soy allergy on your reservations and reminding your server and/or talking with a chef to make sure.

I also second that with the allergy notation they will be very strict about it. Because my peanut allergy is only if I directly ingest the peanut, I rarely note it and simply ask if I have a question about ingredients. I do not have the cross-contamination worry that someone with celiac would, so I usually just have to assure the chef I am fine with fries in a shared fryer (only at Boathouse have I run into this).

I hope you continue to beat this and that you have a wonderful trip!

 

[TwoMisfits]

It is a medical reason which IMHO can be listed as an allergy with no issues. As others have said, allergies can present differently. I have a wheat allergy which results in lowered lung capacity (basically it makes my breathing the equivalent of breathing through a plastic coffee stir worst-case and a regular straw best-case). When I was tested for peanuts, which I know I react to with an itchy/burny chin and mouth in spite of a negative result (yes I avoid them), it did show positive for wheat - I did not think I was reacting to it, so I kept eating it. A few years ago when there was the whole “eliminate gluten to cut belly fat” I asked my doctor what her thoughts were. She asked if I had been tested for a wheat allergy (my allergist was different than my doctor) and when I said “Well, technically...” she suggested I eliminate wheat/gluten and see how my body reacted. My “reactive airway” completely went away and I barely needed my rescue inhaler and my air flow increased dramatically. So I eat gluten-free because of a wheat allergy which, though not anaphylactic, does make me wheeze and inhibits my breathing. Because so many only associate eating gluten-free with celiac, I often get accused of it being a “preference” but there is a legit medical reason - a wheat ALLERGY.

IMHO in your case I would not have one iota of guilt over marking soy allergy on your reservations and reminding your server and/or talking with a chef to make sure.

I also second that with the allergy notation they will be very strict about it. Because my peanut allergy is only if I directly ingest the peanut, I rarely note it and simply ask if I have a question about ingredients. I do not have the cross-contamination worry that someone with celiac would, so I usually just have to assure the chef I am fine with fries in a shared fryer (only at Boathouse have I run into this).

I hope you continue to beat this and that you have a wonderful trip!

Allergies do not have to present with breathing issues. Having just gone through food allergy testing myself this year (and hitting the "jackpot" for 2), you may have nose, mouth, skin, or gut issues in mild form...or lung, heart, throat, mouth, skin, gut, or mental issues in severe form...my handy dandy allergist given guide gave me the accidental ingestion sheet for "which issues need an antihistimine and watch" tactic vs "which issues you need to immediately use your epi and go to the ER" one.

For the record, my food allergies do not cause breathing issues. Although, my spouse having seen a severe reaction that led to the testing, you don't need breathing issues to freak someone out when you are having an allergic reaction...

So, never feel bad putting down the allergy, even if it doesn't present anaphylacticly...it's still an allergy!

 

[BrianL]

You are fine. Dietary restrictions aren't just about allergies. Just share the information with the staff and they should accommodate. The "why" doesn't really matter and it's fine to call it an allergy if you want to be sure there is no confusion over it. You are all good here - no worries - and best wishes.

 

[Dug720]

Allergies do not have to present with breathing issues. Having just gone through food allergy testing myself this year (and hitting the "jackpot" for 2), you may have nose, mouth, skin, or gut issues in mild form...or lung, heart, throat, mouth, skin, gut, or mental issues in severe form...my handy dandy allergist given guide gave me the accidental ingestion sheet for "which issues need an antihistimine and watch" tactic vs "which issues you need to immediately use your epi and go to the ER" one.

For the record, my food allergies do not cause breathing issues. Although, my spouse having seen a severe reaction that led to the testing, you don't need breathing issues to freak someone out when you are having an allergic reaction...

So, never feel bad putting down the allergy, even if it doesn't present anaphylacticly...it's still an allergy!

Oh, I agree 100%. As I said, my peanut ingestion allergy shows up with a rash around my mouth and my chin area being itchy/burny. My codeine allergy results in sever nausea to the point I cannot keep food down for any length of time. The allergy I have to a brand of birth control pills gives me hives on my palms and joints.

 

[only hope]

This is an old thread.