Monorails

[YoHo]

Originally posted by DancingBear
Again, I post this link, which seems to be a fairly educated opinion on the cost issue--and the lowest figure here is $6.5 million per mile.

http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/HowMuch.html

Those figures are approximates and includes station and train costs. You'll also notice that the WDW/Vegas monorail is the most expensive on that list by a fair amount and something tells me that has as much to do with Vegas's inept managment as anything else.

Therefore, it would be disengenuous to point the finger at that and say
"See, it cannot be done reasonably" When other companies are doing it for less.


Not that 25 million a mile is chump change, but again, that includes station costs, train costs etc etc etc. It doesn't really give you just the cost to build the beam itself.

And that's important, because the station costs are more dependent on how Disney want's to utilize the system.

 

[John Dobbertin]

There's one other item re. Monorail: Reliability. On three occasions while we have been at WDW the Monorail system has "gone down." One time it was down for the better part of a day -- & it was the entire system -- not related to hurricanes, either. The buses do provide redundancy.

 

[YoHo]

I have no problems with Redundancy and I would point out that due to neglect and lack of funds, the Monorails have not been replaced in some time. As things age, their maintaince needs and downtime go up. without loving care.


As far as the Busses go, I am surrounded by cities using Natural Gas or Bio-Diesel or Electric busses. It OFFENDS me (yes offends) that Disney who used to be at the forefront of transportation technology can't even utilize something better then straight up Diesel. It's unacceptable.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

More monorail or more rides and attractions?

How about light rail, it's not 2.5 million a mile?

 

[John Dobbertin]

IMO if WDW could build Monorails for $2.5 mil a mile, extensions would have been built yesterday.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

I still don't get why it's so much more expensive than a good road. Those costs seem so high.

How can cities afford to put in light rail and extend transit lines at those costs? How are they able to do it?

 

[YoHo]

I think you'd be shocked at how expensive Light rail would be.

 

[All Aboard]

How can cities afford to put in light rail and extend transit lines at those costs? How are they able to do it?

Taxes. In Miami, Metrorail covers very little of their annual operating expenses (much less capital) through rider fees. The rest comes from taxes.

 

[PanamaMike]

With the current expansion projects going on at Pearson International Airport in Toronto, an automated people mover is scheduled to open in 2006 to shuttle people to and from the parking lot with stops at terminal 1 and terminal 3.

1.5 kilometres long. (roughly the same distance between the TTC and the Contemporary Resort).
Double track (steel truss design...reduces the build up of snow). Two 6 car trains, each pulled by it's own cable.
2, 150 passengers per hour in each direction (each car has seating for 8 and standing room for an additional 17
Total ride time from one end to the other..3 1/2 minutes.

Cost: $160 million CAN (which is well over $100 million US) for less then a mile of service.

I'd love for the WDW monorail system to be expanded, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Bstanley]

Light Rail: $10M - $15M over existing right of way (WDW owns the land, ja?) - then you need to add the cost of trains and STATIONS.

As to how Cities can afford it - if you drive you are paying for it. Fuel taxes pay for all kinds of transportation projects. Both State and Federal taxes go to those cities that tell the 'best' story to the Dept of Transportation (or maybe it simply depends on who the Chairman of the subcommittee is, hmmm).

 

[pattison]

In September, we got a chance to ride up front in the Magic Kingdom monorail loop. I knew that I didn't have much time, so I drilled the driver on anything and everything I could think of. Needless to say, I innocently asked "So are there any plans to expand the monorail?" He replied that they have COMPLETE blueprints to run the monorail system to each of the resorts, theme parks, and water parks. I forget the exact number, but it was A LOT of loops. Unfortunately, he continued, after September 11 they shelved the plans. Maybe someday they'll pull out those plans again.

 

[ShadowWind]

Is the Las Vegas monorail still the Mark IV's they bought from Disney? If so, those things were getting old anyway. Doesn't surprise me that they break down all the time. That is why Disney was replacing them.

This has been an interesting thread. At one point I heard a rumor that Disney planned to scrap the monorail system when it came time to replace the Mark VI monorails, since the cost of replacement wasn't cheap. Guess they've at least done away with that, if it was ever a thought to begin with.

Monorails do have their issues as far as handling large crowds. Just look at the MK to the TTC at night. Even with 4 monorails, it's still a long wait. Even the resort monorail is a 10-15 minute wait generally.

What really amazes me is that there is not more use of the peoplemover system which is a clean electric transportation system that I doubt is very expensive (not as much as the monorail) that could be used in a number of places (DTD from west side to east side for one) and isn't.

As far as monorails versus an E-ticket ride, I'll take the monorail if the E-Ticket ride is just another throw your guts around type. If it's like Haunted Mansion or Pirates, then I'll take the ride.

 

[John Dobbertin]

Believe the Las Vegas monrail trains are all new -- Bombardier. They have had a devil of a time making the things operate correctly. Start up was delayed by about six months as they "worked the problems." The old monorail from Bally's to MGM was torn down to make way for the new, much longer line from MGM to the Sahara via the Convention Center. There are two other monorails running in Las Vegas: (1) from Excalibur to Mandalay Bay via the Luxor, and (2) Bellagio to Montecarlo (closed for a while as Bellagio built a new tower).

 

[ztbz]

I believe the Monorail expansion plans were shelve before Sept 11, as I remember Disney wanted to Buy the Family Channel which cost Disney about 3 billion dollars and I thought it was kind of funny that the Monorail expansion was to cost the same amount to build the system. (Family Channel is now known as ABC Family Channel)

Disney tends to use the Sept 11 excuse for many of their woes.

 

[manning]

What really amazes me is that there is not more use of the peoplemover system which is a clean electric transportation system that I doubt is very expensive (not as much as the monorail) that could be used in a number of places (DTD from west side to east side for one) and isn't.

Ditto!!! Also there are not many moving parts. In particular the motors.

 

[Bstanley]

Alas, I would guess that a PeopleMover system would be multiple times more expensive than a Monorail.

The Monorail is a vehicle that has electric motors to move it which receive their power from rails along the side of the beam.

The PeopleMover is a vehicle that IS a giant electric motor which basically has been cut and laid out flat for the length of the run. When you ride the PeopleMover you can see the armature coils along the edges of the beam. That's expensive.

Other than the fact that the buses are ugly, they spew hydrocarbon soup and they aren't ready when you want them - they are the most flexible solution to getting people from place to place.

Maybe Disney should just work on those problems? I'm amazed that they still use Diesel - it can't be cheap. What about dedicated bus lanes, automated runs, buses that don't look like buses, etc, etc.

The buses are simply an example of nobody thinking about the problem with a truely 'Disney' point of view.

 

[randytenn]

Does Disney own and operate the bus service at WDW, or is it contracted out? I know that the DCL buses are owned and operated by Meers Motor.

Monorails are cool, but expensive. Until Disney decides that the "coolness" of having monorails everywhere pays for the cost, it won't happen.

 

[DancingBear]

An article on mouseplanet.com gives some insight into just how much monorails cost:

The original monorail loop between the Transportation and Ticket Center, the resort hotels, and the Magic Kingdom, consisted of 337 individual track beams 85 to 110 feet long made of concrete with a special polystyrene core to lighten weight.

The beams, which still weighed 55 tons a piece, were transported via standard train from Tacoma, taking three flatbed cars apiece. Two trains carrying the beams across the country landed in a ditch. The beams were then trucked from the station at Taft, Florida like a hook-and-ladder fire engine with a drive truck under the front end and a steerable trailer at the back end of the beam. The total freight bill for just the beams was $980,000.

Wow. That $980,000 in 1970 dollars would be nearly $5,000,000 today, just in transport costs for those beams.

 

[peter11435]

Originally posted by randytenn
Does Disney own and operate the bus service at WDW, or is it contracted out?

Disney owns and operates the WDW bus system.

 

[KYMickey]

Here's the link to the Monorail Society. It's got information on every monorail that's operating or proposed. The "What does a monorail cost?" is interesting!

Monorail Society