Monorail Crash

[kesha]

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[adctd2WDW]

I have just read through this thread and am truly saddened. I have been to WDW many times and my children andI have ridden up front many, many times. Most recently- a month ago. I have always enjoyed speaking with the monorail CMs and have found them to be polite, gracious and sometimes even funny. Magic is created for myself and my children each time we go to WDW. It is not just one ride, one attraction or one incident. It is many of these. However, for the magic to work it takes castmembers who are dedicated to keeping it magical. I can only imagine that as a group the WDW CMs are still somewhat in shock- and especially those that knew Austin.
So many different ideas have been mentioned here. I just keep thinking- someone's son has passed away. A unique and loved individual.
I am sure I will choose to ride in the front of the monorail again (if this is ever offered again)- with my children. I have trusted Disney so many times to keep my family safe. I still do. I trust they will find out why this happened and will take steps to make sure it never happens again. I do not have blinders when it comes to Disney. But, I do feel safe there.
My prayers go out to Austin's friends and family. You are being thought of. Thank you for supporting him while he shared the Disney magic with so many.

 

[phlufster]

One more thing that has me puzzled is that a CM on the platform should have had a "killswitch" on them and could have stopped the monorails. I am wondering if they didn't have it, or if it didn't work.

It seems as though there may have been a chain of unfortunate events that could have been operator error in combination with technical difficulties.

As far as my earlier comment about going in "reverse" you are right, that was totally incorrect because they do operate both ways. What I was thinking that is when they reverse (usually when switching beams) they can only go 15mph and I didn't express that correctly.

So sad about this, my heart goes out to Austin's family.

 

[phlufster]

About 10 years ago, a friend of mine, who was a monorail pilot, was involved in an incident where he was cleared by control to back up for a beam switch and the beam had not swithched over yet. He ended up backing the nose off the end of the beam. There was a full investigation, including pulling recorded conversations from the radios which in the end cleared my friend of any wrong doing. Unfortunately these errors can and do happen.

 

[Seabean]

Here's the diagram in the Orlando Sentinal:

So yea, it was the switch not being thrown that started the chain of events.

How is that switch thrown? Is it done from a central control station far away? Or is the order given to a CM locally who throws it?

Judging by the size of that curve to the size of the train, wouldn't the pilot of Pink have had enough time to look out his window and see that he wasn't on the spur rail, and stop?

 

[seashoreCM]

Let's say someone is looking at the train broadside. If the only driver is in the right cab and the train moves to the left, then the train is going in reverse. One of the dials or levers in each cab is marked "forward, neutral, reverse" or something like that.

I didn't realize that it takes 10 minutes to change ends (set up the cab at the other end for service). All the subway trains and trolley cars I have seen can change ends in about one minute with enough people on hand that one driver doesn't have to walk the length of the train.

Just saw the map above. Didn't realize that the pink train was on the wrong track for such a long time before the collision. Also there were conflicting reports that the purple train was already in the station and unloading when it was hit.

Disney hints: http://www.cockam.com/disney.htm

There needs to be more direct and close observation of movements. Did I read somewhere about two years ago that a CM walking in a parade was run over by a float? Proper observation here might include putting someone in the "back" cab in advance of planning a "reverse" move.

 

[walt's assistant]

Based on the chart published by the Orlando Sentinel (thx for posting, Seabean), it's worse than I feared...mindboggling really...

Potential Pilot Errors:
1) Why did Purple and Pink disable MAPO?
2) Purple should have had good visual acuity of the traffic in the station. How could he possibly miss seeing Pink? It's pretty hard to miss a train on the approach into that station, given his direction of travel.
3) How could Pink not know they were still on the Epcot line? All Pink had to do was look in their side view mirror...

Potential Command and Control Errors:
1) Why wasn't there someone in control to "kill" the power when the collision was imminent?
2) Why didn't the Pink pilot receive an electronic or audible warning that they hadn't crossed over to the Express line as planned?
3) How long were Pink and Purple on duty that day at the controls?

Such a terrible and SENSELESS tragedy....

 

[Seabean]

3) How could Pink not know they were still on the Epcot line? All Pink had to do was look in their side view mirror...

I'm wondering about that too. After the switch wasn't thrown, there should have been some CM to visually verify that it had (or hadn't) been thrown. After that, the Pink pilot should have looked out his window to see that he was on the spur or not. Does that sound about right anyone?

 

[Donald_Quackers]

Another thing I don't remember seeing posted (and if it was, I'm sorry for missing it), but Monorail central is between the Epcot beam, and the express/resort beams, in the TTC.

The person there, if they had been seeing what was happening, should have been able to kill the power.

As everyone else here, my condolences to the family.

There's information on the Disney monorail switches in various articles on monorails.org.

 

[DisneyBrideToni]

Here's the diagram in the Orlando Sentinal:

So yea, it was the switch not being thrown that started the chain of events.

How is that switch thrown? Is it done from a central control station far away? Or is the order given to a CM locally who throws it?

Judging by the size of that curve to the size of the train, wouldn't the pilot of Pink have had enough time to look out his window and see that he wasn't on the spur rail, and stop?

Ok that is a really helpful diagram. Now I see what may have happened. I don't understand how the pink pilot didn't see the other track next to him. That should have tipped him off that he was on the wrong beam. I also heard that the person in charge of the kill switch wasn't near it at the time. I guess Austin didn't see the pink because it was coming into the station and everything probably happened so fast.

 

[DCTooTall]

FYI, There is a LOT of good discussion an information coming from http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=461057&page=75


One thing that someone just mentioned is they were able to pull the information from Purple's Computers. It seems that the can see where Purple was going forward, Stopped, E-braked, and then went into reverse. This pretty much shows that Austin did see Pink coming, and tried to get the train into reverse to avoid the collisions.

It also appears that it's not as simple as going "OH CRAP!" and putting it into reverse like it would be in your car. If the train computer's do not register a complete stop before switching directions, the register a control error which apply the E-brakes and require the driver to manually flip an override switch in the panel behind them. The trains do not stop on a dime, and obviously don't accelerate like a Lambo.


As for why the trains were on Override, Whenever a switch operation is performed the train on the switch must be in override as no MAPO signals are generated on the switch. Pink was cleared to operate in override for the switch operation.

Purple had to be in override for extrance into the station because having the switch "switched" would've broken the MAPO signals coming down the line resulting in MAPO warnings for a "known" issue. Based off a standard flow of events posted in the above forums, What will usually happen is the train will stop at the hold point above the parking lot while the previous train is in the station. As the train leaves the station to the switch hold-point, the 2nd train is cleared to move to a seldom-used hold point right outside the station where he would then stop, go into override, and continue into the station. The train must be in complete stop to go into override, and the switch being opened would've resulted in a train being stuck literally right outside the station if it didn't go into override for the 2 trainlengths into the station to unload.

 

[Tara]

I don't understand the diagram in relation to the CNN picture and the video taken just after the crash. The video is clearly inside the station on the platform. The diagram shows the crash outside the station. Where did impact take place? Was purple moving enough that the impact occurred but both trains moved forward into the station after impact based on purple's inertia/forward motion?

(What I understood before was that impact was in the station and the CNN picture was taken after they moved the trains backward to evacuate the pilot from pink's cab.)

 

[jaycat]

Remember it was dark, the Pink monorail pilot may not have been able to see the other beam out of its window and may not have known he was on the wrong line till he was close or in the station - and by that time its too late. I don't remember the beams being illuminated at night.

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

I just posted this on another board. Repeating here in case anyone else thinks it's a good idea.

I will be wearing my purple Mono pin for the following week as a tribute to Austin, as well as all Trans CMs on Property. You guys ( and gals) have my condolences, appreciation, and THANKS.

"One Rail, One Family"

Thank you so much for posting this.

It's strange that hundreds of miles away, and with no affiliation with the transportation cast community except having been their guest many times, that I'd feel such a personal connection when hearing the news of the accident and Austin's death on CNN. I turned the TV off with a tear in my eye. It touched me again to read on here of his bravery to remain at the controls and attempt to back his train, obviously aware of the peril he was personally in.

I can't imagine the impact of this tragedy on Cast Members, and of course the devastation to his family. I've posted condolences on several boards, but would like to do more to show my support. After reading Figments Friend's comments, I found a purple monorail pin on EBay. I'm not into pin trading, and don't wear a lanyard while I'm at Disney. But I'll find a place to wear this pin during our upcoming trip to memorialize Austin, and to symbolize my condolences to all WDW cast members on your loss.

Thank you for the joy you bring us on our vacations, even when you're hurting inside.

- Dave

 

[Capt_BJ]

This is in NO way meant disrespectfully or to damage any one ....

Pink operator has probably done this maneuver a hundred times at shut down....run to the switch from the EPCOT loop; then back up (with no pass') into the "main" TTC terminal... then run forward to the maintenance building .... and since there were no pass' on board is not really watching what's happening until he seee's some visual reference that tells him it is time to stop & reverse at the TTC. He has NO IDEA he's on the wrong track - cuz someone in 'command central' didn't throw the switch.

I'd expect that 'central' would have been able to detect the error and stop everyone b4 the crash but obviously that did not happen. The switch was not thrown ... and that error was not detected...should there have been radio communication or other to confirm switch position???? I dunno.

The error happened at the control center for all Monorails ..... since it was past closing time, I opine someone let their guard down.

Sad event but as one who's investigated loss of life cases I'd be strong on a direction here .....

You can use Google Earth to get a full picture of the monorail tracks at Disney to see a bit beyond the (accurate) diagram the Orlando Sent' published. I pulled those up this morning to try and determine my opinion of what could have happened. I began to suspect a night parking proceedure.

{technical details ... there is a 'train barn' for Magic Kingdom railroad engines and the monorails. The branch for the monorails to get to the 'barn' is north of the Contemp' Hotel, off the original loop [from Magic Kingdom, thru Contemp', Poly' and (now) Floridian]. I'll call this the TTC loop. The EPCOT loop has no direct access to the barn but has a switch near the TTC that lets a train cross to the TTC loop and then they can get to the barn.}

 

[WDW See Ya Real Soon]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet: It seems to me that purple must have been stopped at the station waiting for clearance to leave for EPCOT. He had passengers, so they must have been going TO EPCOT to get to their cars. There would have been no reason for anyone to be returning FROM EPCOT, since it had closed 4 hours before the incident. So, any reports about purple moving/coming into the station would not be correct. If he was moving, he was moving out of the station, toward EPCOT and monorail Pink.

Does this make sense or am I way off?

 

[Donald_Quackers]

. I'll call this the TTC loop. The EPCOT loop has no direct access to the barn but has a switch near the TTC that lets a train cross to the TTC loop and then they can get to the barn.}

To get even more specific, the spur that takes trains off the line to the barn is off of the express beam. I don't remember and can't see the switch that takes trains from the resort beam to the express beam but I think it's at that same spot.

 

[walt's assistant]

To get even more specific, the spur that takes trains off the line to the barn is off of the express beam. I don't remember and can't see the switch that takes trains from the resort beam to the express beam but I think it's at that same spot.

That spur is near the Contemporary on the way towards the MK. It is a two way spur so that trains can transfer to/from the barn to either the Resort or Express Lines. We stood on our balcony at the CR one morning and watched the operation take place. Very interesting.

 

[ParrotBill]

The NTSB has released a report.

You can read it at WESH.COM

It says
- the switch was not moved to the correct position before Pink was cleared to back up.
- Purple (Austen) tried to back away
- The Monorail operations manager was offsite at a restaurant in Lake Buena Vista and doing his job by radio... (not clear if this is acceptable or not)

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

- The Monorail operations manager was offsite at a restaurant in Lake Buena Vista and doing his job by radio... (not clear if this is acceptable or not)

I just saw a video of the news report on the WESH website which mentions that and a former Monorail driver said it's not that big of a deal, although he also said why he was not there when they are about to close the park is another question to ask.