MM+ never materialized?

[Angel Ariel]

This discussion over opportunity centered around one difficult to get attraction being used to demonstrate a system of failure.

Not once have I said the bolded. In fact I *specifically* said I was NOT passing a value judgment on it. I stated that multiple times in this thread.

 

[DoingDisney]

Well, you could try to become a student if it is that important to you. But the school has an admissions process to qualify candidates for admission.

For Disney, there is no vetting process to determine if you qualify for the honor paying to stay onsite.

Are we now suggesting getting into Disney is tantamount to entering into college?

Actually to get in to college you both have to have the grades and be able to PAY for it ...

I have never heard a good argument that college is "equal opportunity", never, even when excluding the admissions requirements, the biggest determinant of the fact that college isn't an "equal opportunity" is that 2 people of equal academic ability, but difference economic backgrounds do not have the equal opportunity to attend, and to pretend they do is just silly.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That's not true at all. They don't hold passes out for the 60 mark. If something is full when the window arrives then it's full and no one has an opportunity to reserve on their day 60. You arriving on Monday puts you at an advantage over someone arriving on Wednesday. Legacy put everyone on property at the same time in the same boat. This system has put everyone since day 2 in a negative spot.

The final horse beating I will give...

Because YOU created a situation that has you entering the line LATER than others. So you don't get dibs due to a choice you made.

You are aware of the +10. But you booked your vacation as you did anyway.

 

[bcrook]

I spent an entire week at WDW with a party of 9. We all had magic bands (I had two! I know I am a showoff). 2.5 years after that article, still nothing like the interactive nature of the MM+ is on display in any locations. I thought at least my name would pop on the It’s a Small World goodbye boards (They put in the monitors to do this). Scuttle didn’t talk to me. Not one single character addressed my 4.5 year niece by name. I wasn’t sent one single special offer, no bonus “surprise” fastpasses, and Mr. Potato Head still doesn’t know that I exist.

It looks like three years after the first hints of MM+ were leaked, very little of the "Transformational Nature" of the program has come to pass.

So does anyone have any real examples of the 'PLUS' in MyMagic?????

Yes.

Lol! End of the conversation

 

[DoingDisney]

The final horse beating I will give...

Because YOU created a situation that has you entering the line LATER than others. So you don't get dibs due to a choice you made.

You are aware of the +10. But you booked your vacation as you did anyway.

No one can book a vacation where others don't have a 10 day advantage since day 11 of FP+ going live. It is no longer possible, period.

It doesn't matter what day you start your vacation on, someone ALWAYS has a 10 day advantage now ... they never used to.

This is a really simple concept ....

Tell me what choice I can make, something I am not self imposing, to ensure I have equal opportunity to access FPs for my trip, where someone else wont have a 10 day advantage over me ?

 

[JimmyV]

Lisa, I really believe you're putting more meaning into what I'm saying than I am.

I am not discounting all of FP+ because of A&E. *All* I am saying is that this system does not give every single visitor that exact same opportunity to get a FP+. I'm not saying that's good. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm not saying it's fair. I'm not saying it's unfair. But when one signs in at midnight at 60 days and things are not available (A&E wasn't the only one..FOF and Wishes weren't available either) because capacity was gone before one is *allowed* to book, then the opportunity to get those FP+ is, by definition, *not* the same as it was for people who signed in and had availability.

And again, re: the longer stay angle - how is one supposed to know in March that one is not going to be able to get FP+ for some things in September? Sure, maybe now it can be considered a pattern and something that anyone else traveling in the fall will find out from researching..but last Fall was the first party season with full FP+ implementation. There was no history to research. How was I, or anyone else, supposed to know in March that any FP+ would be unavailable at 60 days in September?

Perfectly stated. No one says that Disney has to make things fair. No one says that Disney cannot reward people in differing ways. Just don't set up a system of subsets and then tell me that everyone has the same opportunity. Own up to your system. Just like Rasulo cannot make statements like the one quoted in Post #22 about locking people in long before they arrive and at the same time tout the systems profound effect on spontaneity.

 

[DisneyFive]

This is really the best way to look at it. We have to be careful when we use the word "everybody" when talking about opportunity. There are really just subsets and subsets of subsets. Under legacy, everybody who intended to go to DHS that day had an equal opportunity to get a FP for TSMM. Those who did simply got up earlier than the rest. But that group of park goers is simply a subset of all people at WDW that day. It isn't "everybody". The people who went to Epcot had no opportunity to get a FP for TSMM."

Well, that's almost 100% correct. (unless I'm missing your point) Having learned this from experience, if HS had EMH morning hours, that made FP's for TSMM run out very early since all the Disney resort folks could start pulling them at 8am instead of 9am. We've always stayed on property, and showed up at HS around 9:00 I think on a EMH morning, and I couldn't believe how late the return window was for TSMM already, like around dinner time. Show up much later in the morning and they were gone. Granted, if you entered with the non onsite resort crowd at 9am and went straight to TSMM, you still got a FP, albeit late.

So there was still somewhat of a subset of a subset even with legacy FP, between Disney resort guests and everyone else.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Actually to get in to college you both have to have the grades and be able to PAY for it ...

I have never heard a good argument that college is "equal opportunity", never, even when excluding the admissions requirements, the biggest determinant of the fact that college isn't an "equal opportunity" is that 2 people of equal academic ability, but difference economic backgrounds do not have the equal opportunity to attend, and to pretend they do is just silly.

College has never been free, you are correct. If you can't pay or find a way to pay, you don't go. It is just silly to assume that this was not common belief.

If you can't pay to Disney, you don't go.

So for the comparisons to work, ability to pay is not considered because that was not the topic in the first place.

Additionally it was mentioned that people make their vacation decisions on other things besides money. Not everyone staying off site or visiting just for the day are necessarily doing so due to lack of ability to pay for accommodations.

And unless you blame Disney for career choices (which would
Be just silly), that argument is
Invalid in terms of their role in the oppportunity since they played no role in those
Limiting factors.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Not once have I said the bolded. In fact I *specifically* said I was NOT passing a value judgment on it. I stated that multiple times in this thread.

Please understand the statement was made in the context of discussion. MANY times on these boards, that one attraction is used as a litmus test which is unfair To the fast pass system over all. And this thread is an example.

I was not assigning that responsibility specifically to you. If I was, I would have stated so.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

The final horse beating I will give...

Because YOU created a situation that has you entering the line LATER than others. So you don't get dibs due to a choice you made.

You are aware of the +10. But you booked your vacation as you did anyway.

+10 doesn't magically create FP+ for attractions that may be all give out. Everyone since day 2 has been getting in line later than others.

In that regard you are right though. Maybe everyone after the initial day of FP+ availability should have just stopped booking vacations because it's absolutely the individuals fault that they haven't been on a continuous vacation for 2+ years.

 

[DoingDisney]

College has never been free, you are correct. If you can't pay or find a way to pay, you don't go. It is just silly to assume that this was not common belief.

If you can't pay to Disney, you don't go.

So for the comparisons to work, ability to pay is not considered because that was not the topic in the first place.

Additionally it was mentioned that people make their vacation decisions on other things besides money. Not everyone staying off site or visiting just for the day are necessarily doing so due to lack of ability to pay for accommodations.

And unless you blame Disney for career choices (which would
Be just silly), that argument is
Invalid in terms of their role in the oppportunity since they played no role in those
Limiting factors.

Without having to literally write out an entire lecture on the availability of positions of equal compensation in a capitalistic system therefore limiting actual "choice" of position, well, I will just say you are wrong, but this really only applies to the difference between people who pay to stay on site vs off, which I already said I am fine with, but its a less "equal opportunity" element to the system.

But I really want you to solve for me how I can make a choice, where someone doesn't have a 10 day advantage on booking their FPs ... I am waiting on that one

 

[Angel Ariel]

Please understand the statement was made in the context of discussion. MANY times on these boards, that one attraction is used as a litmus test which is unfair To the fast pass system over all. And this thread is an example.

I was not assigning that responsibility specifically to you. If I was, I would have stated so.

I appreciate you saying so. Given that I was the one who brought up A&E in this thread and was the main person having this discussion with you, it felt as though it was directed at me. I appreciate you saying it isn't.

 

[bcrook]

Maybe it should be called MyMigraine instead of MyMagic.

Plus, I'm jealous of your back to back weeks at DL and WDW!

Dan

It was fantastic really. We travelled with different groups. Disney does a great job of creating a bubble in Anaheim. I stayed in the Grand Californian and Wyndmark Up the street.

It is amazing that DCA has more rides than Epcot and Dhs combined. I think Disney should combine Epcot and DHS at WDW and create one good experience. It would be larger in space but equal in ride capacity to DCA.

At WDW I stayed at Kidani and enjoyed being with family. Nobody in my traveling group (other than my kids and me) knew anything about Legacy or MM+. So they were migraine free!

My kids lamented the days when they could ride their favorite rides more than once. The one true exception was Everest. We could ride that as many times as we wanted. At DLR I rode Pirates of the Carribbean at least 10 times.
Best ride ever! It's twice as long as the WDW version.

Yo Ho, Yo Ho A Pirates Life for Me!

 

[3DisneyFanz]

But I really want you to solve for me how I can make a choice, where someone doesn't have a 10 day advantage on booking their FPs ... I am waiting on that one

Easy. You just need to have been staying on property since the implementation of the system.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Without having to literally write out an entire lecture on the availability of positions of equal compensation in a capitalistic system therefore limiting actual "choice" of position, well, I will just say you are wrong, but this really only applies to the different of people who pay to stay on site vs off, which I already said I am fine with, but its a less "equal opportunity" element to the system.

But I really want you to solve for me how I can make a choice, where someone doesn't have a 10 day advantage on booking their FPs ... I am waiting on that one

You have yet to prove I was wrong. You have yet to prove how the corporation known as Disney has any duty over controlling how you obtain vacation from your employer and how much you are paid by your employer without actually being your employer.

How do THEY limit your checking account. How do
THEY determine you cannot book a 10 day stay?

Which is the point.

We want to blame Disney because their system isn't fair to you. But they had nothing to do with how you booked your vacation. Your post blames your employer.

So discuss it with them?

 

[DisneyFive]

It is amazing that DCA has more rides than Epcot and Dhs combined. I think Disney should combine Epcot and DHS at WDW and create one good experience. It would be larger in space but equal in ride capacity to DCA.

My kids lamented the days when they could ride their favorite rides more than once.

Yeah, it would be awesome if they put in some really good mass transit from HS to EP (easier than buses or the boat). Think monorail on steroids and use it to tie together EP and HS. They are so close anyway.

...and agreed 100%... really, my main gripe with FP+ is tiering and the inability to ride the big headlines more than once a day without a HUGE wait. Loved when we could ride Soarin twice and TT once with legacy FP. Certainly can't do that now with MM+

Dan

 

[cakebaker]

Every single person who logged on at midnight 60 days out who didn't get a FP for A&E had the same opportunity? If they logged on at their earliest possible time and got shut out, doesn't that suggest that someone else had a greater opportunity? Or that the opportunity for the person who tried and failed was not there to begin with? In this example, there is no "waiting until there is no availability" and no blame to cast upon the person who failed. The system's design failed them. Not their lack of diligence and vigilance.

I don't know of a case where 2 groups with identical choices logged in and one got fp+'s and the other group did not.

 

[Angel Ariel]

You have yet to prove I was wrong. You have yet to prove how the corporation known as Disney has any duty over controlling how you obtain vacation from your employer and how much you are paid by your employer without actually being your employer.

How do THEY limit your checking account. How do
THEY determine you cannot book a 10 day stay?

Which is the point.

We want to blame Disney because their system isn't fair to you. But they had nothing to do with how you booked your vacation. Your post blames your employer.

So discuss it with them?

I asked earlier, and I'm still interested to know - how was any fall 2014 guest supposed to know that they'd *need* a 10 day reservation to book certain experiences? There was no history to research, no patterns to be analyzed..there had not been a party season with full FP+ implementation to gain that knowledge from. Sure, now I (and many others on the DIS) are learning from our experience last year and as year 2 comes around and similar patterns are emerging that a longer trip may be required during party season. But we didn't have that knowledge prior to last year's party season. How were those guests supposed to know - when they booked their trips, not when they booked FP+ - that they needed more days?

 

[JimmyV]

I don't know of a case where 2 groups with identical choices logged in and one got fp+'s and the other group did not.

??? So everybody who has ever tried to get a FP for A&E on their 60 day mark got one and no one ever got shut out due to the attraction having reached capacity? I guess I have been misreading all of the posts that suggest that logging on at the 60 day mark is no guarantee of success. I guess this poster was making it all up...
http://www.disboards.com/threads/60-days-out-midnight-no-anna-elsa-for-us.3427533/

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

One calls it ride rationing, others call it leveling the playing field. Everyone now gets the same opportunity to get FPs, and get them at a time that works for them. Under FP- my daughter never would have made it to a random evening FP for a ride if we were up at RD. now I was able to make those plans from the comfort of my home and no FP was booked for later than 4pm. Three ride she wanted, guaranteed. No racing to get them, no timing when we could pull another, no hoping we didn't pull A&E for 11pm.

It doesn't equal the playing field any more than legacy FP did. It just shifts the advantage in a different way and makes it more difficult to control all the variables. With legacy FP, the only variable was arriving early. FP+ favors smaller groups who stay onsite, book at least 60 days ahead of time, stay for 10 days, and preferable stay CL so they can get extra FP by text or email. Pretty small subset of guests.

You omitted that one little word "almost". Search these boards for starters; you could also try it yourself for several times a day and benchmark the results if you're curious. I just tried to check on resort reservations this morning and got the infamous Technical Difficulties message.

I've been messing around with my ADRs and checking availability almost everyday. At almost everyday, the website tells me it cannot search for reservations right now.

So does anyone have any real examples of the 'PLUS' in MyMagic?????

Well , my kids do love being ale to open the door to the room by themselves. They did it over and over on the last trip. And my daughter thought that her MB made a great diving toy for the pool.

How many nights would that be, exactly? We had a 5 day trip. I believe that's considered an average length Disney trip.

Five is average, but I guess everyone should book 10 day trips.

Well, that's almost 100% correct. (unless I'm missing your point) Having learned this from experience, if HS had EMH morning hours, that made FP's for TSMM run out very early since all the Disney resort folks could start pulling them at 8am instead of 9am. We've always stayed on property, and showed up at HS around 9:00 I think on a EMH morning, and I couldn't believe how late the return window was for TSMM already, like around dinner time. Show up much later in the morning and they were gone. Granted, if you entered with the non onsite resort crowd at 9am and went straight to TSMM, you still got a FP, albeit late.

So there was still somewhat of a subset of a subset even with legacy FP, between Disney resort guests and everyone else.

This always comes up, but the only time we ever saw FP for TSMM go that quickly was when we went in 2013 when both non-tiered FP+ and legacy FP was in place.

To get back to the OP, Im just not sure that Disney has seen the ROI they were expecting from MM+.