MM+ never materialized?

[Angel Ariel]

Enough nights to improve her odds...

How many nights would that be, exactly? We had a 5 day trip. I believe that's considered an average length Disney trip.

 

[JimmyV]

There is no logical, rational way you can say there is still "equal opportunity" for FPs, esp compared to the old system, you can continue to insist its true, but you might as well be arguing the earth is flat (and some people still do that too).

This is really the best way to look at it. We have to be careful when we use the word "everybody" when talking about opportunity. There are really just subsets and subsets of subsets. Under legacy, everybody who intended to go to DHS that day had an equal opportunity to get a FP for TSMM. Those who did simply got up earlier than the rest. But that group of park goers is simply a subset of all people at WDW that day. It isn't "everybody". The people who went to Epcot had no opportunity to get a FP for TSMM.

Under FP+, Disney has simply created more subsets. The first is, as it always was, the people who are going to go to DHS that day. The subset of that subset is the group of people who are going to go to DHS and who will be on a 10 day vacation. The next subset is the group who is going to go to DHS and will be on a 9 day vacation. The next subset is the group that will go to DHS as part of their 8 day vacation. And so on. And then we move to off site guests. And then we move to locals with APs coming from their homes. Each of these subsets has an equal opportunity to be "first" among their subset. But it is simply nonsense to say that all of these people in all of their differing subsets have an equal opportunity when compared to the largest subset of "all people who will go to DHS on that given day."

 

[Angel Ariel]

This is really the best way to look at it. We have to be careful when we use the word "everybody" when talking about opportunity. There are really just subsets and subsets of subsets. Under legacy, everybody who intended to go to DHS that day had an equal opportunity to get a FP for TSMM. Those who did simply got up earlier than the rest. But that group of park goers is simply a subset of all people at WDW that day. It isn't "everybody". The people who went to Epcot had no opportunity to get a FP for TSMM.

Under FP+, Disney has simply created more subsets. The first is, as it always was, the people who are going to go to DHS that day. The subset of that subset is the group of people who are going to go to DHS and who will be on a 10 day vacation. The next subset is the group who is going to go to DHS and will be on a 9 day vacation. The next subset is the group that will go to DHS as part of their 8 day vacation. And so on. And then we move to off site guests. And then we move to locals with APs coming from their homes. Each of these subsets has an equal opportunity to be "first" among their subset. But it is simply nonsense to say that all of these people in all of their differing subsets have an equal opportunity when compared to the largest subset of "all people who will go to DHS on that given day."

The whole second paragraph is exactly what I was getting at. Thank you for stating it more clearly than I did.

 

[JimmyV]

So some degree it is and to some degree it is not. But what equipment you have and what modem you have and what internet service you and how fast you can click a mouse have nothing to do with Disney. They cannot do anything to improve that for you.

So the next time someone posts: "What Gives--I Couldn't Get A FP+ For A&E!", the proper response should be..."Get a better modem!"

 

[bcrook]

I think this is exactly why Disney doesn't give out too much information about future projects. There is so much planning and integrating to do, that not all ideas can be made to happen. If they put out a press release that they want to breed actual banshees for Avatar world, everyone expects it to happen. Then we're disappointed when it doesn't work out. And as Robo pointed out, technology can improve so fast that a lot of their ideas may get scrapped simply because they aren't needed any more or not worth the investment since the "wow factor" would be gone.

I don't think Walt had that problem. I am still wowed by Haunted Mansion and pirates of the Caribbean things that came out of the 1964 Worlds Fair. I'm still wowed by its tough to be a bug, splash mountain and Tower of Terror. I think they may have llosttheir edge. If everything went to hell in a hand basket this quickly, they have problems.

 

[Angel Ariel]

So the next time someone posts: "What Gives--I Couldn't Get A FP+ For A&E!", the proper response should be..."Get a better modem!"

Or a better service provider...assuming one has the option of a different/"better" service provider where they live (and they don't already have the "best" ISP available)

 

[DoingDisney]

This is really the best way to look at it. We have to be careful when we use the word "everybody" when talking about opportunity. There are really just subsets and subsets of subsets. Under legacy, everybody who intended to go to DHS that day had an equal opportunity to get a FP for TSMM. Those who did simply got up earlier than the rest. But that group of park goers is simply a subset of all people at WDW that day. It isn't "everybody". The people who went to Epcot had no opportunity to get a FP for TSMM.

Under FP+, Disney has simply created more subsets. The first is, as it always was, the people who are going to go to DHS that day. The subset of that subset is the group of people who are going to go to DHS and who will be on a 10 day vacation. The next subset is the group who is going to go to DHS and will be on a 9 day vacation. The next subset is the group that will go to DHS as part of their 8 day vacation. And so on. And then we move to off site guests. And then we move to locals with APs coming from their homes. Each of these subsets has an equal opportunity to be "first" among their subset. But it is simply nonsense to say that all of these people in all of their differing subsets have an equal opportunity when compared to the largest subset of "all people who will go to DHS on that given day."

The whole second paragraph is exactly what I was getting at. Thank you for stating it more clearly than I did.

Me too, JimmyV just put it perfectly.

It creates more subsets, makes things less equal opportunity by creating those subsets, perfect.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

So the next time someone posts: "What Gives--I Couldn't Get A FP+ For A&E!", the proper response should be..."Get a better modem!"

Modem isn't going to make people whose 60 day window was before yours give up their opportunity. The only real answer would be to reschedule your vacation for April 2014 when you would have had a chance to be among the first people to schedule the experience.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

How many nights would that be, exactly? We had a 5 day trip. I believe that's considered an average length Disney trip.

The +10 benefit that is discussed seems to allow those who have 1-5 more days than you have a better chance.

I don't like it either, but it is a self imposed restriction (meaning it is not Disney limited you to 5 days).

We only stay 2-3 days.

And this discussion is literally over literally 1 set of Fast passes that are hard to get due to restricted capacity.

 

[DisneyFive]

Maybe it should be called MyMigraine instead of MyMagic.

Plus, I'm jealous of your back to back weeks at DL and WDW!

Dan

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

So does anyone have any real examples of the 'PLUS' in MyMagic?????

Yes.

 

[JimmyV]

Modem isn't going to make people whose 60 day window was before yours give up their opportunity. The only real answer would be to reschedule your vacation for April 2014 when you would have had a chance to be among the first people to schedule the experience.

True. To some "everybody has the same opportunity" means "everybody has the same opportunity to stay for 10 days in a Grand Floridian Club Level Room with Concierge services." I suppose in some sort of existential way, that is true. But the problem with existentialism is that the real world has a way of coming along and conking you on the head.

 

[bcrook]

That could be. I'm being optimistic and thinking that they've been working on perfecting the existing technology before they start implementing new stuff.

There is still some possibility that Pandora will include some aspects. But if one ride is Soarin and one is Its A Small World, I'm not sure.

But Pandora is the perfect testing ground to see if My Magic can provide anything new. We only have two more years to wait. Based on my detailed notes...Avatarland was announced in 2011. My kids have moved from middle school, graduated high school and my son will be a junior in college when that is ready to go!

We will see. Lots of building and excitement in DAK.

 

[DoingDisney]

The +10 benefit that is discussed seems to allow those who have 1-5 more days than you have a better chance.

I don't like it either, but it is a self imposed restriction (meaning it is not Disney limited you to 5 days).

We only stay 2-3 days.

And this discussion is literally over literally 1 set of Fast passes that are hard to get due to restricted capacity.

It wouldn't matter if I had a 10 day vacation booked.

If I start mine on Monday, and someone else starts on Sunday ... they have an advantage on FP selection over me.

And to try to argue this is all "self imposed" just ignores reality. If I can't get my vacation approved, or can't travel until monday for one of hundreds of reasons, its not a self imposed constraint, its a result of the system design. Disney is aware of this, just like disney is aware that people of different economic means can afford longer or shorter trips, can afford to stay on site or offsite. These aren't self imposed, unless you gave me the option of "Hey, which job/life/boss/income/ability do you want ? And I picked from all of them"

This ties back to the difference between substantive and formal equality.

What's worse is that you at least were arguing this in the context of legacy FP. Which, every day, at park opening reset and were available to all.

Can you really not see that FP+ is less equal than that system. Really ? With the myriad of subsets of people it creates, with the different ways it is affected by peoples' life differences, which impact their ability of when they can go and how long they can go and on what notice they can book their vacations (and these things really aren't "self imposed" they are the realities of life).

 

[JimmyV]

So does anyone have any real examples of the 'PLUS' in MyMagic?????

Yes. It is My Magic...PLUS two days at Universal.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

The +10 benefit that is discussed seems to allow those who have 1-5 more days than you have a better chance.

I don't like it either, but it is a self imposed restriction (meaning it is not Disney limited you to 5 days).

We only stay 2-3 days.

And this discussion is literally over literally 1 set of Fast passes that are hard to get due to restricted capacity.

It's not 1 attraction. The OP mentioned one specific attraction but this has been an issue with multiple attractions since day 1. It's even worse in the parks where you're made to pick between multiple rides since you can't FP+ them both like you could previously. Even better is when you make your ADRs and then find you can't get your FP+ for the same park.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

And would you say the college students and the general public had the same "opportunity" to book tickets ? No, the college students have a greater opportunity, all the tickets can be sold before anyone in the general public gets a chance to buy them. And thats ok, thats a perk, but its not "equal opportunity", and that is the discussion we are having.

Well, you could try to become a student if it is that important to you. But the school has an admissions process to qualify candidates for admission.

For Disney, there is no vetting process to determine if you qualify for the honor paying to stay onsite.

Are we now suggesting getting into Disney is tantamount to entering into college?

 

[JimmyV]

There is still some possibility that Pandora will include some aspects. But if one ride is Soarin and one is Its A Small World, I'm not sure.

But Pandora is the perfect testing ground to see if My Magic can provide anything new. We only have two more years to wait. Based on my detailed notes...Avatarland was announced in 2011. My kids have moved from middle school, graduated high school and my son will be a junior in college when that is ready to go!

We will see. Lots of building and excitement in DAK.

Well....if some character greets me by by name in Na'vi, I wouldn't understand them in any event. So there's always that!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It's not 1 attraction. The OP mentioned one specific attraction but this has been an issue with multiple attractions since day 1. It's even worse in the parks where you're made to pick between multiple rides since you can't FP+ them both like you could previously. Even better is when you make your ADRs and then find you can't get A

This discussion over opportunity centered around one difficult to get attraction being used to demonstrate a system of failure.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Lisa, I really believe you're putting more meaning into what I'm saying than I am.

I am not discounting all of FP+ because of A&E. *All* I am saying is that this system does not give every single visitor that exact same opportunity to get a FP+. I'm not saying that's good. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm not saying it's fair. I'm not saying it's unfair. But when one signs in at midnight at 60 days and things are not available (A&E wasn't the only one..FOF and Wishes weren't available either) because capacity was gone before one is *allowed* to book, then the opportunity to get those FP+ is, by definition, *not* the same as it was for people who signed in and had availability.

And again, re: the longer stay angle - how is one supposed to know in March that one is not going to be able to get FP+ for some things in September? Sure, maybe now it can be considered a pattern and something that anyone else traveling in the fall will find out from researching..but last Fall was the first party season with full FP+ implementation. There was no history to research. How was I, or anyone else, supposed to know in March that any FP+ would be unavailable at 60 days in September?