MK Bus wheelchair/ECV at closing

[Mirabell Rose]

I don't especially want to, but it can help increase the number of complaints directed at Disney Transportation.

There is strength in numbers!

They may not listen to one wheels user. 45 people, including wheelchair users, may be a different matter.

So what would be a good way to get the point across to the real decision makers and not just the line level worker stuck with the evening shift at the bus stop? BTW, my husband was so mad he insisted he get to talk to the supervisor who did come over along with 2 security guards escorting him. I rolled my eyes at that because my husband has spent his career in vocational rehabilitation and behavioral health, so he’s the poster person for calm and control when telling people they are clearly in violation of ADA law with this policy - which he did in no uncertain terms, but to people who lacked any understanding of the law.

 

[SteveMouse]

So what would be a good way to get the point across to the real decision makers and not just the line level worker stuck with the evening shift at the bus stop? BTW, my husband was so mad he insisted he get to talk to the supervisor who did come over along with 2 security guards escorting him. I rolled my eyes at that because my husband has spent his career in vocational rehabilitation and behavioral health, so he’s the poster person for calm and control when telling people they are clearly in violation of ADA law with this policy - which he did in no uncertain terms, but to people who lacked any understanding of the law.

Disney responds to economic pressure and legal decisions (not usually legal threats).

If enough people complain about a particular issue, Disney may take notice. Complaints can come via survey response, letters/submissions to the company, and feedback from staff. The legal route is to file a suit, with all that that entails.

Like your husband, I am a professional in the public services arena. I have worked extensively to improve access in a variety of venues and programs. in both the public and private sectors. It can be really hard to get management to buy into the idea of change, especially if there arr additional expenses and no expected increase in offsetting revenues. Disney could put more wheelchair spaces on their buses, but they don't perceive a need.

 

[DisneyOma]

So what would be a good way to get the point across to the real decision makers and not just the line level worker stuck with the evening shift at the bus stop? BTW, my husband was so mad he insisted he get to talk to the supervisor who did come over along with 2 security guards escorting him. I rolled my eyes at that because my husband has spent his career in vocational rehabilitation and behavioral health, so he’s the poster person for calm and control when telling people they are clearly in violation of ADA law with this policy - which he did in no uncertain terms, but to people who lacked any understanding of the law.

What was it about the policy that you found went against ADA?

 

[jo-jo]

I'm confused with the stated procedure. I've never been at closing with a scooter, so no experience.

You had to go thru the regular line, until you were at the front , then you were moved to the handicapped spot? Or you went thru the regular about 80% of the way and then moved over?

 

[Lewisc]

clearly in violation of ADA law with this policy

What was it about the policy that you found went against ADA?

I don't understand. Is requiring scooters in join the regular queue for part of the wait a violation? Is the failure to immediately dispatch a second bus when both spots are taken a violation?

Is a business required to do anything if all HA parking spots are occupied with cars displaying valid permits?

 

[Mirabell Rose]

I don't understand. Is requiring scooters in join the regular queue for part of the wait a violation? Is the failure to immediately dispatch a second bus when both spots are taken a violation?

Is a business required to do anything if all HA parking spots are occupied with cars displaying valid permits?

You can have the same line for the q’s that have equal access to all space on the vehicle. The monorail cars can all accommodate a chair, check. The skyliner cars can all accommodate a chair, check. This you can truly load in the order in which people enter the q. If 3 chairs show up in a row, they can all be loaded. The busses are not able to accommodate all chairs, only 2. Therefore by ADA they must load 2 chairs if there are 2 chairs when the bus arrives, regardless of the timing of who arrives at the stop when. That and only that is what enables them to let people who arrived after the third chair to board the bus and not the third chair. Sometimes a chair gets priority in the arrival in the que, sometimes it doesn’t. To only load the chair in the order with everyone else means the chair never gets priority but always gets penalized if it’s 3rd.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

I don't understand. Is requiring scooters in join the regular queue for part of the wait a violation? Is the failure to immediately dispatch a second bus when both spots are taken a violation?

Is a business required to do anything if all HA parking spots are occupied with cars displaying valid permits?

HA parking is set as a percentage of spots. No, a store doesn’t have to add more for an occasional overage. But even when all those spots are empty, they can’t let non handicapped park in them.

For busses, they have designated 6 seats for handicapped. (Two flip ups of 3) They can fill them with non wheel chairs, but only if no wheel chairs are waiting when the bus is loading. Thus, the bus can not leave a chair sitting at the stop so long as they have one of those spots not filled with a chair. This the ‘wait in the regular que’ serves no purpose, as the only wait for spots for those in a chair is for the 2 available slots. Chairs always have to take priority over people for those 2 slots. That is how the bus can load people who come after the chairs over the chairs.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

P.S. places that have a higher than normal percentage of people that come there with a handicap permit must either make more spots or offer something like free valet. A good example is a medical office building. They often do have to add more permanent handicap spots.

 

[lanejudy]

Thanks. The monorail and Skyliner makes sense to me with one line. Not so many turns and any car of those can take a wheelchair so FCFS can be done fairly.

The skyliner cars can all accommodate a chair, check.

Yes the Skyliner gondolas can all accommodate an ECV/wheelchair -- except they aren't loaded that way. Except at Riviera the Skyliner has a separate queue for mobility devices. Gondola cars are pulled off and stopped for mobility devices to load. And while I don't ride it much, I believe the monorail also only loads mobility devices to certain cars even though by design all could conceivably hold one.

 

[Evita_W]

This was the policy before COVID for a couple of years, no real change here, although it is indeed annoying, as it causes all sorts of logistical issues. More and more it is seeming that renting a car and driving it makes the most sense these days if you can load and unload the scooter ok that is.

 

[LoveToDisney]

Regarding the monorails, you have a STRONG chance that you will be on the NEXT monorail if you have an ECV and they are lined up for loading.
Previouly, when you drove an ECV onto the Monorail forward, you could be added after people were loading. Now that they require you to go in backwards, they will put the ECV in a holding area while they load walk-ons. Once the monorail leaves, they begin the process of preparing the ECV to back onto a future monorail. They only have ONE ramp so there’s only so many that can be backed onto the monorail during a stop. It seems to be about 3 cars.

 

[keishashadow]

Have to say I just usually either leave before fireworks or stay WAY after to avoid this if I have to take a bus. Otherwise bring your patience and certainly don't do it if you're already exhausted. I think it seems fine to do it this way if they have a CM around to help people.

Usually there are more people needing WC/ECV spots than there are spots so you're not going to the front of any line if you need assistance at this time of day...so it seems like it would be easier to keep the separate line for us but

Patience is indeed required in equal measures for everyone if they leave directly after FW.

a couple things I noticed after a 2 night stay @ PoP thanksgiving weekend when waiting for DS bus around 4:15 pm…

the line was wildly long, we usually rent a vehicle to avoid the buses. The CM stationed at the stop indicated it tends to be that way on weekends, especially near Holidays. We didn’t get on a bus until almost 5:30 pm.

There were an extraordinary number of ECVs. Going to guess many may have been first time visitors. Loud complaints from people unhappy at prospect of being separated from their party…both when in groups larger than two ECVs or when having another ECV guest ahead of them that was waiting to board.

to my eye, a high percentage of people in ECVs also had quite large parties with them...resulting in less availability for those in the regular line. I have no idea how many people are permitted to board with somebody in a ECV.

I do know people were getting increasing frustrated seeing repeated buses arrive for the other stops. Once it started to rain, the mood really soured. Finally, they started to send more buses after 5 pm.

it absolutely wasn’t magical experience. Can only imagine similar issues the end of the night from Epcot or MK directly after the FW, yike & double yike!

Glad I didn’t have kids along on that trip. Shouldn’t be an us against them sort of thing among guests, nor should we have to explain the law or ECV boarding process to wdw employees & other guests.

WDW needs to set a clear & consistent policy, follow it and have security on standby, if needed to calm down those who melt down over the process for the safety of all guests.

 

[starlite_]

You can have the same line for the q’s that have equal access to all space on the vehicle. The monorail cars can all accommodate a chair, check. The skyliner cars can all accommodate a chair, check. This you can truly load in the order in which people enter the q. If 3 chairs show up in a row, they can all be loaded. The busses are not able to accommodate all chairs, only 2. Therefore by ADA they must load 2 chairs if there are 2 chairs when the bus arrives, regardless of the timing of who arrives at the stop when. That and only that is what enables them to let people who arrived after the third chair to board the bus and not the third chair. Sometimes a chair gets priority in the arrival in the que, sometimes it doesn’t. To only load the chair in the order with everyone else means the chair never gets priority but always gets penalized if it’s 3rd.

What???? That 3rd chair was never gonna board that bus anyway. I agree it seems a bit silly to not have a dedicated wheels queue (who knows, there might be a reasonable reason) but at the end of the day no matter where that 3rd chair was in the queue, be it actually the 3rd spot, or the 11th or he 50th, it was never going into the first bus since there are only 2 spots for chairs on the bus.

 

[Selket]

to my eye, a high percentage of people in ECVs also had quite large parties with them...resulting in less availability for those in the regular line. I have no idea how many people are permitted to board with somebody in a ECV.

Having so many WC/ECVs in the line was like the experience we had once at Epcot trying to get back after the evening show. All they can do in this case is send extra busses to soak people up. One time they started sending 2 busses at a time - the "2nd" bus behind the first loaded the Wc/ECWs and then pulled up to the regular loading spot to load everyone else when the 1st bus pulled away. This worked pretty well but you need extra space.

I've seen WAY too many people board with ECV's. My family waits in the regular line (and sometimes arrives ahead of me). If I'm just with one person, they stay in line with me usually (not always). I have sometimes gotten a Minnie Van if the line looks awful - but the ECV one can be hard to get.

 

[lanejudy]

So last night they had all the seats filled and half the standing room when they got to a wheelchair. So they had to stop and get people and strollers moved, some people off, to load the chair. Then they let those people back on and half a dozen new people on.

It seems that you ran into a very not typical loading procedure, for whatever odd reason that may have occurred. Did you go through the queue all the way to the front (meaning you were right in front of the front doors to the bus, next to load)? That would not be typical. Usually an ECV/wheelchair goes through the regular queue to a pull-out point, then would wait for the next bus. Why wait? Because an individual at that point in the queue wouldn't have boarded onto that bus anyway (if pulled out with 50+ people between pull-out and the front of the queue as is typical).

clearly in violation of ADA law with this policy - which he did in no uncertain terms, but to people who lacked any understanding of the law

Except it is not a violation. There is nothing in the ADA that states if 150 people are already waiting for a bus and you are the first mobility device to arrive, that you must be loaded ahead of all. Nope, sorry, if the bus holds ~110 people, you correctly belong boarding the next bus whether on a mobility device or on foot.

 

[Lewisc]

This was the policy before COVID for a couple of years, no real change here, although it is indeed annoying, as it causes all sorts of logistical issues. More and more it is seeming that renting a car and driving it makes the most sense these days if you can load and unload the scooter ok that is.

Loading and unloading a scooter in a rental car looks easy when you look at a youtube video. It's probably easy if you're traveling with young adults. Otherwise it can be a challenge.

I'm going to skip ADA rules in this post. I don’t know enough. Some posters, not in this thread, think they know more then they do.

Resort selection makes a huge difference. Guests at POP can ride the skyliner to 2 parks. One bus stop means you know how many scooters are ahead of you.

POFQ doesn't frequently share buses. You know how many are ahead of you. You can boat to DS.

The EPCOT resorts let you scooter or take the boat to 2 parks. Swan. Dolphin and Reserve will frequently offer AP rates and senior rates close to moderate rates.

Monorail resorts offer monorail access to 2 parks. Might even be able to scooter to MK.

Mears accessible taxi vans are reasonable.

Resorts with multiple stops or resorts which share buses can be a challenge. Early bus stops may find scooter spots taken by returning guests. Guests at the later stops may find the scooter spots taken by guests who boarded earlier.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

What???? That 3rd chair was never gonna board that bus anyway. I agree it seems a bit silly to not have a dedicated wheels queue (who knows, there might be a reasonable reason) but at the end of the day no matter where that 3rd chair was in the queue, be it actually the 3rd spot, or the 11th or he 50th, it was never going into the first bus since there are only 2 spots for chairs on the bus.

Exactly. So there is always a penalty there for a wheelchair rider on a bus at #3. There is never a penalty for a #3 non wheelchair rider

 

[Mirabell Rose]

Loading and unloading a scooter in a rental car looks easy when you look at a youtube video. It's probably easy if you're traveling with young adults. Otherwise it can be a challenge.

I'm going to skip ADA rules in this post. I don’t know enough. Some posters, not in this thread, think they know more then they do.

Resort selection makes a huge difference. Guests at POP can ride the skyliner to 2 parks. One bus stop means you know how many scooters are ahead of you.

POFQ doesn't frequently share buses. You know how many are ahead of you. You can boat to DS.

The EPCOT resorts let you scooter or take the boat to 2 parks. Swan. Dolphin and Reserve will frequently offer AP rates and senior rates close to moderate rates.

Monorail resorts offer monorail access to 2 parks. Might even be able to scooter to MK.

Mears accessible taxi vans are reasonable.

Resorts with multiple stops or resorts which share buses can be a challenge. Early bus stops may find scooter spots taken by returning guests. Guests at the later stops may find the scooter spots taken by guests who boarded earlier.

I agree. It would be a plus for a chair user to have resort access to the monorail or skyliner when they run. We are DVC and are more limited due to how you can book home and non home resorts and which are DVC and which are not.

 

[Lewisc]

This the ‘wait in the regular que’ serves no purpose, as the only wait for spots for those in a chair is for the 2 available slots. Chairs always have to take priority over people for those 2 slots.

The reason has been addressed. It makes sense when the scooter joins the queue but won't fit in the next bus, unless the guest.is allowed to skip the line by going directly to the scooter load area

 

[Lewisc]

I agree. It would be a plus for a chair user to have resort access to the monorail or skyliner when they run. We are DVC and are more limited due to how you can book home and non home resorts and which are DVC and which are not.

AKv share a bus stop with AKL. Transportation wise it's probably better then OKW and SSR.
Spending a few dollars for mears taxi van, going to the parks makes a lot of sense.

Look at alternative parks for transportation. A lot of scooters waiting for the MK..Bus to.EPCOT then monorail. Too many scooters waiting for EPCOT bus to DHS then scooter, boat or skyliner to DHS.