Mixed Feelings about new Unemployment Extension

[Kathi OD]

There is an excellent article from the Wall Street Journal about jobs that may never come back even in a recovering economy. Construction was one category mentioned, as well as finance jobs,especially those related to the housing industry, secretaries (because of all the technology, companies don't need as many administrative workers) and manufacturing.

My thought is that if you work in a declining industry, or if you are unwilling or unable to physically move if you live in a depressed region, then you strongly need to consider re-training yourself for another career.

If I got laid off (and it could happen) I would be taking college classes in a some type of medical technology during the year that I was collecting unemployment. Those jobs don't go away, and they are portable- not affected by where you live.

I think if you work in a declining industry, and you don't consider re-training, 6 more months of unemployment is not going to make much difference- in 6 months you probably are still going to have trouble getting a job.

I don't mean to sound harsh at all- just practical. I think it's terrible that we are sending all of our jobs to foreign countries. I don't like that as a country, we don't make anything any more. But it doesn't matter what any of us think- it's happening- we are a service economy- and the only way to survive is to make sure we are employable, or to dramatically cut back on our lifestyles so that we can afford to live on much less.

If you're unemployed and struggling to pay your bills, how do you pay for re-training? DH went to our county to inquire about re-training and was told that he didn't qualify because he had a college degree. I'd be willing to bet that, in this particular recession, there are a lot of unemployed who are in the same situation.

You never know when UE is going to hit your family. You really need to be prepared. Those experts who talk about having a 6 month emergency fund are dead wrong. Today, you need at least 12 months, and probably more.
Cutting back is exactly what we should all be doing. Once you've gone through that long stretch of doing without, it's not that hard to do. While DH is making much less than before he got laid off, he's making a lot more than he was on UE. All that extra money, which we used to piddle away, is now going into savings or toward paying down our bills. While we had quite a bit of money in our savings when he got laid off, we also had some unnecessary debt. Lesson learned...it will never happen again.

 

[Sugar Jones]

I would LOVE to go back to school, but that costs money and paying for school AND paying for daycare is not an option at this point.

My situation is different than most though. We live in a rural area and I have SEVERE anxiety of driving in the winter. My options for work that is close by is extremely limited.

I can't comment much since I'm Canadian, but I was granted an extentsion to my UI because I was considered a long term employee. I don't think everyone on UI here is granted that extension. And here we do pay into our EI. There are deductions taken off our paychecks weekly for it.

 

[Virgderon]

I have news for those who think that going back to school is going to fix everything. Going back to school just got me stuck with student loans and useless classes while I could have been out there making a little money because the edu-business is not run for the benefit of students. Anyone eligible for a student loan is eligible to attend school to train for jobs that really don't exist in our McJobs economy. I expect to find myself looking more desirable to employers after school starts back and all of their students are back in class.


This leads me to a question for those who say that the unemployed used to making good pay should just take any job in our "service economy." Who is all of this service for if nobody has a real job making something of real value?

If you are looking for growth industries, its health care. People still get sick. One of my clients is a pharma company. Medical writers, clinical research people and quality assurance people all make upwards of $25 per hour.

Consider this- unemployment is around 10%. If you add in the people who have stopped looking for jobs, it's maybe 20%. If you then add in the underemployed, maybe, just maybe it's 30%. So, that means that 70% of the population is still employed.

That 70% still buy things, altho possibly less than they did before. So if you are looking for a low paying job, consider what people need versus what they want.

I'd rather work in a grocery store than a tanning salon. People need food, they don't need to get a tan. You have more job security if you work for a company that produces or sells things that people have to have.

To take this even farther, I'd rather sell car insurance than life insurance. People who are broke will cancell their life insurance, but they have to have car insurance or risk breaking the law.

Being in San Francisco, you have such a high cost of living for everything, even food from what I understand. If you considered living elsewhere that might help .

Living in Tampa instead of Chicago has helped with the pain of the big pay cut we took, because it costs much less to live here, and there is no state income tax. Housing costs less, food costs less, etc.

 

[Virgderon]

If you're unemployed and struggling to pay your bills, how do you pay for re-training? DH went to our county to inquire about re-training and was told that he didn't qualify because he had a college degree. I'd be willing to bet that, in this particular recession, there are a lot of unemployed who are in the same situation.

You never know when UE is going to hit your family. You really need to be prepared. Those experts who talk about having a 6 month emergency fund are dead wrong. Today, you need at least 12 months, and probably more.
Cutting back is exactly what we should all be doing. Once you've gone through that long stretch of doing without, it's not that hard to do. While DH is making much less than before he got laid off, he's making a lot more than he was on UE. All that extra money, which we used to piddle away, is now going into savings or toward paying down our bills. While we had quite a bit of money in our savings when he got laid off, we also had some unnecessary debt. Lesson learned...it will never happen again.

I absolutely agree with the 2nd part of your post. I wish we would have saved more- we knew my DH was going to get laid off about a year before it happened.

As for the first part of your post, I guess it depends on where you live and what is available. There are programs where degreed people can become certified to teach in less than 6 months, for example. You can also fill out a FAFSA as an adult. If you don't make a lot because you are unemployed, you are going to qualify for more financial aid.

Being willing to move for a job will make a huge difference. If that is not possible, being willing to have one spouse go where the job is while the other spouse holds down the fort at home is difficult but it is an option.

 

[Kathi OD]

IMO there has to be a cutoff somewhere when these kind of benefits run out. I thought that 99 weeks was already overly generous. What exactly is going to change in the economy in the next six months to make any extension anything but a stop gap to the next extension, all on borrowed money that we as a nation cant afford.

Without being specific (trying to stay away from getting too political), there are a lot of things we can't afford as a nation that we are borrowing money for. Taking care of our own citizens while they are unable to find a job should be a priority. Instead, we lend money to other nations, knowing full-well we will never be paid back. There's a natural disaster somewhere in the world and Americans all over the country contribute $1, $5, $20 to help. But should their fellow citizens need help because they get laid off, through no fault of their own, we call them lazy and greedy, and then tell them to figure it out by themselves.

While 99 weeks sounds overly generous, there are over 2.5 MILLION "99ers" (people who have exhausted all 99 weeks of UE w/o finding a new job). What happens when another 5 - 14 MILLION more unemployed reach that magical number and are dumped from the UE rolls before the economy really starts to recover and jobs are added? HMMM...those people move to the welfare, food stamp, & medicaid rolls? If we don't have the money to support them on UE, do you think we'll have the money to support them on welfare, food stamps, & medicaid? The housing market takes another hit. Think the foreclosure have topped out? Think again. Retail and manufacturing goes through another slump (now more people are unemployed), because all those 99ers won't have the needed money to stay in their homes or spend on goods.

Find other places in the budget to cut. But until the job market starts to grow again, cutting UE benefits for people who need them, just because they can't find a job in a specific number of weeks, will cause more problems in the long run than it will solve in the short term.

 

[Kathi OD]

I absolutely agree with the 2nd part of your post. I wish we would have saved more- we knew my DH was going to get laid off about a year before it happened.

As for the first part of your post, I guess it depends on where you live and what is available. There are programs where degreed people can become certified to teach in less than 6 months, for example. You can also fill out a FAFSA as an adult. If you don't make a lot because you are unemployed, you are going to qualify for more financial aid.

Being willing to move for a job will make a huge difference. If that is not possible, being willing to have one spouse go where the job is while the other spouse holds down the fort at home is difficult but it is an option.

I think we probably agree on more than we disagree, especially about where you live & what your personal situation having a lot to do with what options will work for you. The key is that you have to explore those options.

We were willing for DH to go wherever, but it would have had to be one of those situations where I stayed here and "held down the fort." I have a good paying job w/ excellent, employer-paid benefits. For me to find a comparable job, especially at my age & with no contacts, would be virtually impossible, and so we'd be in the same shape at the new location.

If you're single, or married but your spouse has a relatively low-paying job, filling out the FAFSA for financial aid to help w/ training can be a good idea. However, because of my good paying job, our EFC for any schooling DH would want to pursue just wouldn't be in the budget while he was on unemployment. Again, while we were meeting our bills, there wasn't anything left over. The FAFSA doesn't take into consideration your mortgage or other debts. It's primarily based on income, taxes, dependents, & the cost of the schooling.

Do I believe that there are people trying to beat the system and stay on UE for as long as possible? You bet! There are always people who will try to get something for nothing. However, I believe that it is a small minority and you shouldn't penalize those who are doing everything they can do to get back to work because of the few that aren't.

 

[Colleen27]

There is an excellent article from the Wall Street Journal about jobs that may never come back even in a recovering economy. Construction was one category mentioned, as well as finance jobs,especially those related to the housing industry, secretaries (because of all the technology, companies don't need as many administrative workers) and manufacturing.

My thought is that if you work in a declining industry, or if you are unwilling or unable to physically move if you live in a depressed region, then you strongly need to consider re-training yourself for another career.

If I got laid off (and it could happen) I would be taking college classes in a some type of medical technology during the year that I was collecting unemployment. Those jobs don't go away, and they are portable- not affected by where you live.

I think if you work in a declining industry, and you don't consider re-training, 6 more months of unemployment is not going to make much difference- in 6 months you probably are still going to have trouble getting a job.

I don't mean to sound harsh at all- just practical. I think it's terrible that we are sending all of our jobs to foreign countries. I don't like that as a country, we don't make anything any more. But it doesn't matter what any of us think- it's happening- we are a service economy- and the only way to survive is to make sure we are employable, or to dramatically cut back on our lifestyles so that we can afford to live on much less.

On an individual scale that can be a solution, but on a broader scale it just doesn't work because even in-demand fields can only absorb so many new grads. Cutting way back is going to be the only choice for many out of work Americans. That's the nature of a service economy - for every one nurse or teacher making a decent wage, there will be a half-dozen fry cooks and cashiers who never will. Manufacturing and construction were the foundation of a broad middle class, and without that foundation the reality is that a lot of people in this country will never do better than paycheck-to-paycheck.

I remember reading, a million years ago in an econ 101 class, an economist who stated quite forcefully that globalization could only have one outcome - a declining standard of living for workers in developed nations that wouldn't level off until wages between the developed and developing world reached equilibrium. We're starting to see that now; American labor can't compete price-wise with Chinese/Indian/Vietnamese/Pakistani labor, so American labor is unemployed. To talk about that is suicide for a politician or leader, though, because no one wants to admit that the price of that $10 Walmart hair dryer is ultimately going to be a sizable American underclass.

 

[Colleen27]

Consider this- unemployment is around 10%. If you add in the people who have stopped looking for jobs, it's maybe 20%. If you then add in the underemployed, maybe, just maybe it's 30%. So, that means that 70% of the population is still employed.

Actually, the figure is more like 58% of the working aged population that is currently employed, once you take out the unemployed, the discouraged, the disabled, and those who choose not to work for whatever reason.

Even going into a field that people need isn't a sure bet right now. Food is good for the time being, because there is the food stamp program to make sure the poor have some access to that. Medicine is a little shakier, with a growing chunk of the population priced out of services, but still poised for growth particularly in those aspects that serve the elderly (Medicare) or the young (Medicaid/SCHIPs). But a lot of the men I know in the construction industry went into it with that same thinking - people will always need to maintain their homes, and you can't outsource your plumber or roofer. Well, that's true, but that doesn't mean the market is invulnerable to oversaturation.

I suspect medicine - not doctors, but support and patient care professions - will be the next oversaturated field as people rush off by the thousands to train in a "sure thing" in this recession.

 

[nunzia]

It might depend on where you live. In PA and NJ, BOTH the employer and employee pay into the UE fund.

Thanks for the info. I'm in NM so was a little confused on that one.

 

[Virgderon]

I suspect medicine - not doctors, but support and patient care professions - will be the next oversaturated field as people rush off by the thousands to train in a "sure thing" in this recession.

Good point. I could see that happening if people wait a couple years to start getting an education in the medical field. I would guess the time is now.

 

[Virgderon]

Cutting way back is going to be the only choice for many out of work Americans. That's the nature of a service economy - for every one nurse or teacher making a decent wage, there will be a half-dozen fry cooks and cashiers who never will. Manufacturing and construction were the foundation of a broad middle class, and without that foundation the reality is that a lot of people in this country will never do better than paycheck-to-paycheck.

I remember reading, a million years ago in an econ 101 class, an economist who stated quite forcefully that globalization could only have one outcome - a declining standard of living for workers in developed nations that wouldn't level off until wages between the developed and developing world reached equilibrium. We're starting to see that now; American labor can't compete price-wise with Chinese/Indian/Vietnamese/Pakistani labor, so American labor is unemployed. To talk about that is suicide for a politician or leader, though, because no one wants to admit that the price of that $10 Walmart hair dryer is ultimately going to be a sizable American underclass.

This is so true, and quite frightening since many of the immigrants that we are taking in are not college educated, and will be competing with us for those declining manufacturing jobs. Other countries won't take people in like we do.

What to do? Start your own business maybe? One of my daughters friends from high school started her own wedding planning business (in this economy!) and is now the most successful financially of all of her friends.

 

[mjbaby]

What to do? Start your own business maybe? One of my daughters friends from high school started her own wedding planning business (in this economy!) and is now the most successful financially of all of her friends.

Self-employment remains a viable (which is not the same thing as guaranteed) route to financial health - if one keeps in mind the trade-offs that come with it (less access to group health rates, few or no paid vacations, etc.).

The flip side is that if more citizens recognized that they don't actually need baggalinis, Vera Bradleys, multiple Disney vacations or what not and also ceased insisting on the rock-bottom price on everything (because the rock bottom price costs much, much more than we can quantify) - and believe me, I'm not being Judgy McJudgerson, because I like pretty, inexpensive things as much as the next girl - there would be 1) more money available for investment - personal and otherwise and 2) more of our peers would be employed. Although, if we start broadening our definition of "peers" to include folks around the world maybe it's not such a bad thing - we've had so much for so long, after all.

There are no easy answers and anyone who claims to have a total grasp on what the global economy is going to look like in the future is either delusional or lying.

 

[SanFranciscan]

Actually, the figure is more like 58% of the working aged population that is currently employed, once you take out the unemployed, the discouraged, the disabled, and those who choose not to work for whatever reason.

Even going into a field that people need isn't a sure bet right now. Food is good for the time being, because there is the food stamp program to make sure the poor have some access to that. Medicine is a little shakier, with a growing chunk of the population priced out of services, but still poised for growth particularly in those aspects that serve the elderly (Medicare) or the young (Medicaid/SCHIPs). But a lot of the men I know in the construction industry went into it with that same thinking - people will always need to maintain their homes, and you can't outsource your plumber or roofer. Well, that's true, but that doesn't mean the market is invulnerable to oversaturation.

I suspect medicine - not doctors, but support and patient care professions - will be the next oversaturated field as people rush off by the thousands to train in a "sure thing" in this recession.

You are so right! Even the national media knows this. My husband saw an article in the USA Today last week about the number of new nurses who cannot find a job in nursing and are going home to live with their parents who thought that their children would be having their own families now. One R.N. was working as a waitress and probably felt lucky to get that job. No matter how great the need for health care professionals, the hospitals cannot pay staff while the patients aren't paying. That is why hospitals are operating in the red and closing emergency departments, etc.

I was sitting outside of a supermarket to eat a little snack with my insulin last month, and the managers of the Lucky chain were having a little pow wow outside about how they couldn't make their sales quota while cutting their labor costs. I am sure that that is why both they and Safeway are bringing in self-check-out lines. I told one of the human cashiers that I was very concerned about this pushing still more people out of their jobs and was standing in his line as my form of protest. He just sighed and said that five years from now all of the cashiers will be gone.

The main reason that Las Vegas has such a sour economy is that the construction workers that went to build now bankrupt casino projects and the housing that everybody needs are still there. Expecting anyone unemployed to live like a nomad is a very dangerous view as it will send the crime rate up and all kinds of things that you won't like if the relocation point is in your own communities.

After my husband and I left a little town in Santa Barbara County to seek our fortunes in San Francisco to escape the lack of opportunities where we were, we ended up homeless for two years. I am well aware of what large odds I beat by getting out of the homeless system, and I was a young healthy woman with no dependents and no addictions. I couldn't survive another round of that as an insulin-dependent diabetic who is now 25 years older than I was then. If we were going through the same thing now, I would soon be in a life of crime to make my medical expenses the State's problem after I was jailed, or else I would soon be buried at the expense of the State. Knowing that is why I think that it is unrealistic and cruel to tell people to "Vote with their feet" if they aren't finding work where they are. Do you want the unemployed coming to your town to compete with you for your job and needing your county's assistance to get set up in a new community?

 

[Virgderon]

Do you want the unemployed coming to your town to compete with you for your job and needing your county's assistance to get set up in a new community?

Sure. Sincerely. DH and I came to Tampa from Chicago. Nobody expects the displaced auto workers in Detroit to stay there, or casino workers in Vegas to stay there. If there is an opportunity elsewhere and you fit the job, go for it.

I'm not suggesting that people just up and move anywhere without having a job waiting for them in that city. But answering a job ad for a job in another city, driving or flying to the interview and moving if you get a job offer doesn't seem strange or wrong to me at all.

I don't feel like my DH took his job away from a Tampa native. He answered a job ad, and was the most qualified for the job. If a Tampa person was the best qualified, they would have got the job.

I don't see why considering or suggesting relocation would be "unrealistic and cruel."

 

[PatriciaH]

Other industries are doing that as well. Believe me, employers are taking advantage of the surplus of employees available. Employers now offer "contract positions" at less pay (than before) with no benefits! (for Executive positions). Many employers are paying less because they can!

Can't people see this is a Catch-22? Until people start going back to work this economy will NEVER turn around. Paying people low wages with no benefits is not the way to get them spending again. Employers are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Disney loves to do this. DH was contract for years in Marketing and PR with no benefits. They kept extending his contract and promising him a position. We finally gave up and took a good job back north.

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

Don't even get me started about extending FUNemployment

I can't believe that you even would use the word 'fun' in unemployment. I lost my job 54 weeks ago. In those 54 weeks, I have searched and searched for jobs. I have had one interview - ONE. I apply for positions and never hear back from the companies. It's a wonderful feeling being left in limbo.

If it is so 'fun', then why am I so depressed over not being employed? Why do I have pit in my stomach all of the time from the stress, have trouble sleeping, and feel like a loser because I got let go and not the other people I used to work with? I was in tears at the bank today because I'm watching my savings account drop weekly - my savings that I have worked so hard for - just disappearing for bills.

Yes, when you see my ticker, I do have a upcoming cruise that was booked nearly a year before I lost my job. Not one penny of my unemployment was used for paying for the cruise - so don't worry, I'm not vacationing on your 'dime'.

I worry constantly about finding a job. I got married in October of 2009. I would love to start a family soon (I'm not getting any younger) but until I find a job, I can't even think about it. Do you know how much it hurts me to think that I can't become a mother until somebody hires me? You think that is fun?

If you think unemployment is so 'fun', I would be happy to take your job and then you can survive on my unemployment. Then you can see how much 'fun' it truly is.

If I got laid off (and it could happen) I would be taking college classes in a some type of medical technology during the year that I was collecting unemployment. Those jobs don't go away, and they are portable- not affected by where you live.

I did think about going back to school. I have a BA already, but I was considering going for a Masters - however, how will I pay for it? I can hardly pay the bills with unemployment, how am I going to pay to go back to school?


Like many posters have said, it's easier to judge if you are not in the situation. If you are in the same situation as myself, I am so sorry and I can only hope you will find a job soon.

 

[cm8]

Just be grateful you are not in his shoes . He seems to have an uncertain future, where you have more to be grateful for and appreciate. After living through my husband's recent unemployment I don't begrudge anyone whatever aid or benefits they qualify for.

:, and that is something that most people forget. People some where, some how will always manage to get over. It is how we treat them and interact with them that will determine how far we get or gain from them.

 

[SanFranciscan]

Yes, when you see my ticker, I do have a upcoming cruise that was booked nearly a year before I lost my job. Not one penny of my unemployment was used for paying for the cruise - so don't worry, I'm not vacationing on your 'dime'.
Like many posters have said, it's easier to judge if you are not in the situation. If you are in the same situation as myself, I am so sorry and I can only hope you will find a job soon.

The DisneyGirl, taking that cruise might be the best thing for you. My husband had already arranged for a trip to Disney World before I got laid off last month. The company didn't tell us that it was closing for forever until about a week before it actually did. I was so sick from Type 1 diabetes that I didn't even know I had that I met my current doctor in the intensive care unit in January. Those treating me have told me that taking a trip would be the best thing for my health now and that there is no sense in canceling the flight while the tickets are non-refundable anyway so we are going because I can't work if I am sick. In other words, I have been medically advised to take this vacation so we are going with plans to just be careful about how much we spend beyond what has already been paid for.

I am planning to use the trip to see what the work situation is like around Orlando. I am very afraid to move after what happened to us the first time we moved to a place with more jobs because we were homeless even after we were working, but it can't hurt to ask because Orlando have more of the type of work that I normally do anyway. My willingness to do hard work many former executives consider beneath themselves means that I might do okay at finding a living wage. You never know who you might meet on that cruise TheDisneyGirl. Maybe your connection to your next job is going to be there with you.

You are so stressed out TheDisneyGirl that you might find that offers start coming for jobs after you return from your cruise more relaxed and enthused to get a fresh start. I told my doctor that we should not be spending money from my husband's retirement account to go on vacation while I am not working. She said that she would write a prescription for me to go on vacation "doctor's orders" if it were legal for her to do so.

 

[AlisonWonderland]

Don't even get me started about extending FUNemployment

Is everyone on it taking advantage well of course not but there is truly no regulation to control it either way, just more government in our lives

I wondered, while reading this thread, how long it would be before someone quoted the obnoxious, derogatory, term "Funemployment." What a disgrace.
As many of the people who have responded to this thread have already observed, it is easy to blame the unemployed for the problem of unemployment. Easy, but absolutely wrong and absurd.
I was laid off from one of the major law firms in Philadelphia; the 3 of many lay-offs where entire jobs were eliminated and many hard-working and diligent people were left without jobs. One of the major law firms in the city even closed their doors, leaving hundreds more stranded. I thought I would be out of a job for a few weeks: turned out it was 18 months. First of all, most of the law firms were laying off, and second: at age 55 I was not at the desired age for the employers who were hiring. Funemployment? Bull. I was in a panic every single day and spending hours applying for jobs and interviewing at places who didn't have the courtesy to ever get back to me. A part-time job? Forget about it. I have years of retail experience which did me no good. I also had a brother-in-law in the same situation, who worked harder than anyone I ever saw to obtain any type of employment. I cannot believe people are actually not only buying into the funemployment idea, but having the audacity to perpetuate it. It is a disservice to 99.9% of the unemployed; and perhaps to 100%. Everyone prefaces their quoting funemployment with a speech about "those truly looking for work" but you're making a judgment you have no right to make. While you may have family members who say they're enjoying unemployment, my guess is it's false bravado in light of the rejection they're facing when trying to get a job.

 

[AlisonWonderland]

There is an excellent article from the Wall Street Journal about jobs that may never come back even in a recovering economy. Construction was one category mentioned, as well as finance jobs,especially those related to the housing industry, secretaries (because of all the technology, companies don't need as many administrative workers) and manufacturing.

My thought is that if you work in a declining industry, or if you are unwilling or unable to physically move if you live in a depressed region, then you strongly need to consider re-training yourself for another career.

If I got laid off (and it could happen) I would be taking college classes in a some type of medical technology during the year that I was collecting unemployment. Those jobs don't go away, and they are portable- not affected by where you live.

I think if you work in a declining industry, and you don't consider re-training, 6 more months of unemployment is not going to make much difference- in 6 months you probably are still going to have trouble getting a job.

I don't mean to sound harsh at all- just practical. I think it's terrible that we are sending all of our jobs to foreign countries. I don't like that as a country, we don't make anything any more. But it doesn't matter what any of us think- it's happening- we are a service economy- and the only way to survive is to make sure we are employable, or to dramatically cut back on our lifestyles so that we can afford to live on much less.

Until I was unemployed I thought the same way you did. Ok, so I've been a legal assistant for almost my whole career; I can translate those skills to another career. Doesn't happen. In our world today, employers can afford to choose people with exactly the experience they are looking for, and if you haven't been working in that sector, you don't have it. Get a degree and start from the bottom? Sounds great, but the reality is that even the community colleges cost money and if you're already living on a lot less no way can you afford it. And then, when you go to get a job you're going to need experience to get that job. My daughter graduated as with an RN degree last year and we all know the medical field is hiring because that's what we're being told, right? Well, guess what. The hospitals are laying off and you need at least a year's experience for the ones who are hiring. She was able to get employment at a nursing home, working full-time hours but not being classified as full-time (hence, no benefits); she was considered "pool". So my point is, it's easy to say what you would do if and when you are unemployed but the reality is that it's not that simple.