Misled by fastpass plussers

[mom2rtk]

Or, the overall numbers have stayed the same but they've just done a better job at marketing (free dining, special events, etc.) the off season.

I agree with a friend of mine who thinks Disney is working hard to make every day a 7. I kind of think they want a lot of 10's but just don't want any of the off days to be less than 7.

But I do agree that a lot of what has gone on in recent years has been shifting people from peak times to off-peak times. That said, I think overall attendance continues to increase a bit every year and that over time that has left them with too little attraction capacity for the numbers in the parks. When they came to a fork in the road, they opted for MM+ in an effort to maximize what they had instead of adding more. And it's going to take a lot more than a couple of 7 year park additions to make up for that.

 

[Lucius Best]

I love how in just a few short years WDW has from the happiest place on Earth to a natural human right. FP+ is not the cause of your problems. FP+ is Disney's answer to the fact that increased global prosperity has made their parks more crowded than ever and you guys act like you're ready to plead your case to the Hague.

I had to google the Hague Convention because it's been quite a few years since I slept through History class. The last Hague Conference was in 1907, I'm pretty sure they're not reconvening to discuss FP+. And actually the Hague (and Geneva) conventions deal with aspects and conditions of war (laws of war, war crimes, prisoners of war, etc), not human rights. As for all those people who are so upset about FP+, if they are going to be presenting a human rights case against Disney and FP+, I'm guessing their best avenue of action might be to address it to the United Nations Human Rights Council.

 

[Dr Gevil]

 

[BrokeMack]

I had to google the Hague Convention because it's been quite a few years since I slept through History class. The last Hague Conference was in 1907, I'm pretty sure they're not reconvening to discuss FP+. And actually the Hague (and Geneva) conventions deal with aspects and conditions of war (laws of war, war crimes, prisoners of war, etc), not human rights. As for all those people who are so upset about FP+, if they are going to be presenting a human rights case against Disney and FP+, I'm guessing their best avenue of action might be to address it to the United Nations Human Rights Council.

Somebody's humor detector is broken. Sarcasm plus anachronism equals absurdity. Much like the absurdity of demanding that Disney cater to an individual family's preferred touring style and experiencing a significant emotional event when expectations go unmet.

And for the record, the Hague's intent in creating the law of armed conflict included protecting the human rights of prisoners of war, so the analogy is valid.

 

[Lucius Best]

Somebody's humor detector is broken. Sarcasm plus anachronism equals absurdity. Much like the absurdity of demanding that Disney cater to an individual family's preferred touring style and experiencing a significant emotional event when expectations go unmet.

And for the record, the Hague's intent in creating the law of armed conflict included protecting the human rights of prisoners of war, so the analogy is valid.

I'm sorry, I figured you were joking, but now I'm still a trifle confused, are you comparing Disney park guests to prisoners of war? Maybe I just don't get the analogy.

 

[mousehockey37]

While I have yet to wait 30 minutes stand bye on our last trip we waited 20 minutes in fp for star tours. They are giving out too many fp+ I would be better to give out less and schedule less and then everyone can ride more rides.

They may be giving out too many, but also, you're given a window to use the FP+. Say you have a FP+ for Splash Mountain for 11am. Well, you have about an hour and 15 minute window to use that FP. When you actually get to the ride, you could everyone or no one there yet. If Disney distributes say 500 FP's for that 11am slot, you could walk up to find 500 people in the FP queue or no one. It's just a matter of when people decide to use their FP.

 

[JimmyV]

Much like the absurdity of demanding that Disney cater to an individual family's preferred touring style

I don't think that the emotional reaction comes so much from Disney not catering to a particular touring style as it does from the fact that they blew up the touring style of a large segment of its most loyal customers. I understand why they did it. But it doesn't make the disappointment any less. There is a difference between not catering to something or someone and marginalizing them.

 

[grnflash]

Much like the absurdity of demanding that Disney cater to an individual family's preferred touring style and experiencing a significant emotional event when expectations go unmet.

I thought the nonFP+ers wanted the opposite of being catered to. You know, I'll just get what I get when I get there.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I really don't think that you are the kind of guest with the kind of touring style that Disney designed the system for. I think that people that go to Disney for the rides are the minority. I think most of us go for the experience and the rides are just one part of that. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with how you go, I just don't think that's what the system is designed for.

I don't know anyone (other than those who post here)who are willing to spend that amount of money just for the experience.​

I believe DISers are in the minority when it comes to park guest. How how else can you explain the number of guests that were completely clueless about how to maximize the old FP system?

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't think that the emotional reaction comes so much from Disney not catering to a particular touring style as it does from the fact that they blew up the touring style of a large segment of its most loyal customers. I understand why they did it. But it doesn't make the disappointment any less. There is a difference between not catering to something or someone and marginalizing them.

I think that many of have pretty specific touring strategies, and Legacy FP worked really well if you knew how to use the passes, especially when you were able to stack them. So along comes this new system that enhances the experiences of those people who either did not know about FP or who like to enter the parks later in the day. I don't know for sure, but I bet that there are a lot more people who are experiencing a better trip than those who are upset that their plans are a bust. I am not disparaging your lesser experience, I get it, but from a business perspective, I can see why things needed to change

I thought the nonFP+ers wanted the opposite of being catered to. You know, I'll just get what I get when I get there.

I don't believe for a minute that people who go to the parks enter with basically no expectations. I think that there are families who are okay going on attractions that are available to be able to avoid preplanning, but that is way different than not wanted to be catered to. I do believe that folks who visit rarely do nto fall into this category.

FP+ is not a perfect system, and I agree that there is a lot more to be done, but there will never be a fair way to manage attractions in the parks that gives people the experiences they enjoyed by really using Legacy FP well and those folks who do not get to the parks a RD and want to sprint like a gazelle to teh FP kiosk to snag Soarin or ToT at a reasonable hour.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I think that many of have pretty specific touring strategies, and Legacy FP worked really well if you knew how to use the passes, especially when you were able to stack them. So along comes this new system that enhances the experiences of those people who either did not know about FP or who like to enter the parks later in the day. I don't know for sure, but I bet that there are a lot more people who are experiencing a better trip than those who are upset that their plans are a bust. I am not disparaging your lesser experience, I get it, but from a business perspective, I can see why things needed to change






I don't believe for a minute that people who go to the parks enter with basically no expectations. I think that there are families who are okay going on attractions that are available to be able to avoid preplanning, but that is way different than not wanted to be catered to. I do believe that folks who visit rarely do nto fall into this category.

FP+ is not a perfect system, and I agree that there is a lot more to be done, but there will never be a fair way to manage attractions in the parks that gives people the experiences they enjoyed by really using Legacy FP well and those folks who do not get to the parks a RD and want to sprint like a gazelle to teh FP kiosk to snag Soarin or ToT at a reasonable hour.

I'm fairly sure the Guest Services CMs would disagree with you about people enjoying their trip. The Guest Services desk at Disney Springs had a 30 minute wait Saturday night trying to help people with lost dining reservations, malfunctioning magic bands, lost tickets and lost FP+ when they tried to reload options. 2 years in and still having these types of issues is not improving experiences.

As for not running for a FP you are now running for the ride since you couldn't get the FP. We showed up at MK about 5 min after opening and it was already packed. If anything the system has made RD an important strategy. It's also made prepopening ADRs a hot ticket which is a win for Disney.

I think the main thing to keep in mind is that none of this was done for the guest experience. It was simply designed to try and keep people on property regardless of whether it improved or hurt your enjoyment while you are there.

 

[grnflash]

I think that many of have pretty specific touring strategies, and Legacy FP worked really well if you knew how to use the passes, especially when you were able to stack them. So along comes this new system that enhances the experiences of those people who either did not know about FP or who like to enter the parks later in the day. I don't know for sure, but I bet that there are a lot more people who are experiencing a better trip than those who are upset that their plans are a bust. I am not disparaging your lesser experience, I get it, but from a business perspective, I can see why things needed to change






I don't believe for a minute that people who go to the parks enter with basically no expectations. I think that there are families who are okay going on attractions that are available to be able to avoid preplanning, but that is way different than not wanted to be catered to. I do believe that folks who visit rarely do nto fall into this category.

FP+ is not a perfect system, and I agree that there is a lot more to be done, but there will never be a fair way to manage attractions in the parks that gives people the experiences they enjoyed by really using Legacy FP well and those folks who do not get to the parks a RD and want to sprint like a gazelle to teh FP kiosk to snag Soarin or ToT at a reasonable hour.

Sure but non-the-less the non+ers aren't/weren't expecting catering. Though neither were the plussers imo. The late enterers have benefitted from plus but imo that is a by-product of the system. Which indeed is a good thing in isolation for many people. But I don't believe Disney did this to enhance anyone's experience or develop a fairer ride management system. Not for a second. And while the isolated benefit of say FP+ riding TSMM at 4pm is good, is there really a net benefit? If most standby lines are longer throughout the day, there is not a net benefit for either plussers or nonplussers.

FP+ is intended to increase profits (hotel occupancy, keep people put, more means to track in order to market more effectively, etc.) Something that I personally don't begrudge, it is the primary purpose of business after all. What I would begrudge if I were a worlder (and if the system comes as-is to DL) is a profit-oriented program that supplied neither the resources (i.e. rides) nor sound infrastucture (i.e. glitch-laden programming, hoops and hurdles to execute.) It seems that FP+ has actually made resources scarcer (longer lines) and introduced infrastucture problems never before experienced.

 

[Nancyg56]

I'm fairly sure the Guest Services CMs would disagree with you about people enjoying their trip. The Guest Services desk at Disney Springs had a 30 minute wait Saturday night trying to help people with lost dining reservations, malfunctioning magic bands, lost tickets and lost FP+ when they tried to reload options. 2 years in and still having these types of issues is not improving experiences.

As for not running for a FP you are now running for the ride since you couldn't get the FP. We showed up at MK about 5 min after opening and it was already packed. If anything the system has made RD an important strategy. It's also made prepopening ADRs a hot ticket which is a win for Disney.

I think the main thing to keep in mind is that none of this was done for the guest experience. It was simply designed to try and keep people on property regardless of whether it improved or hurt your enjoyment while you are there.

I agree that Disney did not make these changes to enhance all of our experiences, but I do disagree that the entire MDE is a bust. Are there issues? Yes. I think there is a lot of room for improvement, but for many, it is an improvement on previous experiences. Speaking personally, I like it for the most part. I have traveled without our FP runner and am still able to go on attractions that I would have had to run for. I still do not see the difference between having a FP now and before. You still had an hour window. Yes, Disney was not enforcing it for a whole, but that had to change.

AS to keeping folks on property, I think that argument can be made that it has had the opposite result in many cases. Now one does not need to get to the park early in order to enjoy specific attractions, and guests can tailor the timeframe they are within any given park. I can lounge around in my PJ's until I get to the park, hit my three or four hours if that is what I want to do and get the heck out to enjoy my dinner at Steak and Shake. No need to hang out in Mousegear waiting for that Soarin window that is three hours away.

I think that for a lot of people this new system will never be a positive experience, but that cannot negate that for many others this is a win win.

 

[Nancyg56]

FP+ is intended to increase profits (hotel occupancy, keep people put, more means to track in order to market more effectively, etc.) Something that I personally don't begrudge, it is the primary purpose of business after all. What I would begrudge if I were a worlder (and if the system comes as-is to DL) is a profit-oriented program that supplied neither the resources (i.e. rides) nor sound infrastucture (i.e. glitch-laden programming, hoops and hurdles to execute.) It seems that FP+ has actually made resources scarcer (longer lines) and introduced infrastucture problems never before experienced.

I cannot argue there! Disney needs to manage that infrastructure problem that is a nightmare.

 

[Happy_2_B]

I don't like the new system, either. That said, DW and I will have 3 pre-booked FP+'s each day- and the option for a whole bunch of extra FP+'s that can be booked the same day in the parks. If you don't like the system, then work it to your advantage. People have choices. One choice is to complain about the system and do nothing about it. Another choice is to complain about the system- then use the loopholes in the system to their benefit. Attendance levels have gone up a bit- but with all these extra FP+ options doubt we will even notice. I worked the old system- and had huge stacks of FP's acquired during park visits to use for future trips for all of the attractions. The new system has loopholes as well, and one can choose to take advantage of them- or not. Everyone is different- and have different opinions about what is right for them- and that's great. We each are entitled to plan our vacation the way we want regardless of what someone may think about it. If you don't like the system, you have the option of working within that system to improve your WDW experience.

 

[WillAustin]

I still do not see the difference between having a FP now and before. You still had an hour window. Yes, Disney was not enforcing it for a whole, but that had to change.

On a high crowd day with the old system, anyone could easily get more than 3 FPs if they wanted to.

AS to keeping folks on property, I think that argument can be made that it has had the opposite result in many cases.

This is certainly true for us. We spend less time in the parks now than we did before.

 

[BrokeMack]

I'm sorry, I figured you were joking, but now I'm still a trifle confused, are you comparing Disney park guests to prisoners of war? Maybe I just don't get the analogy.

I'm suggesting that some of the MM+ haters are acting that way.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I agree that Disney did not make these changes to enhance all of our experiences, but I do disagree that the entire MDE is a bust. Are there issues? Yes. I think there is a lot of room for improvement, but for many, it is an improvement on previous experiences. Speaking personally, I like it for the most part. I have traveled without our FP runner and am still able to go on attractions that I would have had to run for. I still do not see the difference between having a FP now and before. You still had an hour window. Yes, Disney was not enforcing it for a whole, but that had to change.

AS to keeping folks on property, I think that argument can be made that it has had the opposite result in many cases. Now one does not need to get to the park early in order to enjoy specific attractions, and guests can tailor the timeframe they are within any given park. I can lounge around in my PJ's until I get to the park, hit my three or four hours if that is what I want to do and get the heck out to enjoy my dinner at Steak and Shake. No need to hang out in Mousegear waiting for that Soarin window that is three hours away.

I think that for a lot of people this new system will never be a positive experience, but that cannot negate that for many others this is a win win.

I think their belief is that you would spend more time in Mousegears if you weren't in line for 'Soarin. I also think they wanted you to ride your three rides and then go to Disney Springs and not Steak n' Shake. I do think some of the changes to Disney Springs will help this plan as they will be able to push more dining plan people there but unless I've missed it they haven't really announced any new things that sound like they'll be QS restaurants. To me that is a big thing that is missing from Disney Springs.

 

[mom2rtk]

On a high crowd day with the old system, anyone could easily get more than 3 FPs if they wanted to.



This is certainly true for us. We spend less time in the parks now than we did before.

Plus you could repeat headliners.

 

[flicx]

For 2 billion they could have added more to EPCOT as well and done more for moving visitors around and locking them in than app and a rubber bracelet.

At 2 billion they could have added five 100million dollar price tag rides to each park. Aka headliners. That would have fit the bill for almost everyone here!