Minor Traffic Accident, need help with a question....

[JKMastalski]

My DH was driving to work last Wed. Morning through the WORST rain storm and very high winds. He was on the NJ Turnpike and hit a huge puddle in the left lane, going about 45 mph. He hydoplaned, spun around and hit the cement barrier/guardrail. THANK GOD he was okay, but our Honda Civic was pretty messed up. Nobody else was involved and he actually swerved towards the guardrail when he spun around so he wouldn't hurt anyone in the middle lane.
Anyway, he called me all shaken up and told him to call the Police even though the car was driveable and he was okay. I thought it was the best thing to do and that way he would have an accident report on file if he later started to hurt.
The police officer came and gave the usual "are you okay, is the car driveable" and that was about it. He gave my DH a small slip of green copy paper with an address on it to mail $1.50 for an accident report in 10 days.
Fast forward to yesterday when we get a certified letter from the County Court in New Jersey with a SUMMONS to appear in Court with a fine of $85 for Careless Driving and Potentially Endangering a person or property.

CAN THEY DO THIS???? NOT one single thing was mentioned to DH about any kind of a ticket. He said the cop barely said two words to him and just seemed annoyed that he had to come out in this terrible rain and wind storm.
So they said we have to appear in court or pay the ticket and get possible points on his license.
DH has a flawless driving record with not even so much as a speeding ticket on it. He is really bothered by this whole situation since he thought he was doing the right thing by calling the police.
Anyone have any insight on to whether or not police can just mail a ticket like that and not even tell you ? I thought maybe he would have had to sign a ticket that day or something????

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I"m not sure--but I've seen cases in court where the ticketed person had a lawyer on retainer--and they got out of tickets b/c the officer didn't appear in court or the officer didn't have the papers on the radar gun.

You might consider doing a free consult with an attorney just to see what the laws are.

I know of cases where no charges were filed in Florida until later after the case could be reviewed. So it is possible to be charged (ticketed) later.

However...if he was driving the speed limit--unless they want to charge him for driving too fast for conditions, then I don't see how they can charge him if he was driving the speed limit and the car just caught a puddle funny.

 

[Living with the Land]

I rolled my car once for swerving to miss a deer in the road. I got a ticket for failure to maintain control. The officer said it was better for me to have hit the deer then I wouldn't have gotten a ticket since I hit something that was in the road. Seems to me that the puddle of water was in the road. However, since he pulled toward the median and hit it then maybe that is why he was ticketed. It doesn't seem fair but some laws don't make sense.

Holly

 

[Squirlz]

I struck and killed what turned out to be a show dog when it leapt from behind a hedgerow into the street. I called the police because I knew this was someone's pet and I couldn't just leave it there. Found out later I got two "accident points" on my license.

 

[lovinwdw]

you should get in touch with an attorney. you may want someone to go with him when he needs to make his first appearance.

 

[JKMastalski]

Thanks for all the replies. If he has to pay the fine, that is okay, but he just doesn't want any points on his license. Especially since his job requires him to drive most of the day. He has been careful with driving and maintained a perfect record until this letter came!

 

[Dopey Sharon]

They can mail you a ticket afterwards.

Look at the back. He may have to call to tell them he is pleading "not guilty". When he goes to court, talk to the prosecutor. Tell him that he's never gotten a ticket (which he will probably already know), what happened and that he would like to "downgrade" to a charge that doesn't have points against you. Most likely, they will.

The fine will end up being higher than the original ticket, but your insurance won't go up and he won't get any points on his record.

Good luck.

 

[Kramer]

Anyone have any insight on to whether or not police can just mail a ticket like that and not even tell you ? I thought maybe he would have had to sign a ticket that day or something????

The statute of limitations on issuing a traffic ticket in NJ (for most offenses) is 30 days. You can be mailed at ticket(or have it delivered to you) as long as its within 30 days. You do not sign for a ticket in NJ either... the cop just fills it out and hands it to you (or mails it in your case).

There are a number of reasons why the cop didn't give your husband the ticket at the scene... He may have been out of tickets at the time of the accident. Or his supervisor may have reviewed the accident report and felt that a ticket should have been issued and directed the cop to fill one out and send it in the mail.


Careless Driving in NJ carries two motor vehicle points. There are a number of ways you can deal with this:

1. Just pay the ticket and take the two points. Many insurance companies will not raise your rates for just 2 points. Check with your insurance company and see what their policy is. And for every year that you go without a ticket DMV will deduct 3 points from your record. So if your DH goes 1 year without another ticket, the points will be gone.

2. Go to Court and plead not guilty and have a trial. If you lose, you're no worse off than #1 above, but they will tack on court costs.

3. Got to Court and speak to the prosecutor. They will likely allow you to plead guilty to a lesser offense... most likely a statute called "Unsafe Driving" (39:4-97.1). This carries no points, but there is a mandatory surcharge imposed by the State of NJ of $250-$300. Its a racket designed to raise money for the State by charging people lots of money to keep points off their record. But it might be cheaper in the long run if your insurance company is going to raise your rates for getting the aforementioned 2 points on the carless driving.

 

[John VN]

My DH was driving to work last Wed. Morning through the WORST rain storm and very high winds. He was on the NJ Turnpike and hit a huge puddle in the left lane, going about 45 mph. He hydoplaned, spun around and hit the cement barrier/guardrail.....

Simple fact is that he was driving at a speed that resulted in an accident. He was driving too fast for the conditions that existed and therefore is liable for the damages done and can be given a ticket.

Our DS was driving and hit a patch of black ice. Car spun and took out a power pole. End result was that he received a ticket and had to pay for the pole.

John

 

[swanmom]

Definitely a good post by Kramer and exactly what our experience was when my DH had a minor accident (we live in NJ.) We did hire an attorney - $350. -because she had lots of experience (and colleagues) in the town where he was cited. She 'bargained' with the Pros. Attorney and had charges reduced to a fine and unsafe driving ... just as Kramer said. She was well worth the fee considering what she saved us on NJ's outrageous insurance rates for several years until the points would have gone away. As Kramer said, you can probably do this 'negotiating' yourself but our attorney knew exactly who to contact, what to say and how to do it and was worth every penny!

 

[caitycaity]

Simple fact is that he was driving at a speed that resulted in an accident. He was driving too fast for the conditions that existed and therefore is liable for the damages done and can be given a ticket.

this is what i was going to say. hydroplaning is, by its very definition, driving too fast for the road conditions.

i bet if your dh contests it in court they will lower it.

 

[John VN]

Definitely a good post by Kramer and exactly what our experience was when my DH had a minor accident (we live in NJ.) We did hire an attorney - $350. -because she had lots of experience (and colleagues) in the town where he was cited. She 'bargained' with the Pros. Attorney and had charges reduced to a fine and unsafe driving ... just as Kramer said. She was well worth the fee considering what she saved us on NJ's outrageous insurance rates for several years until the points would have gone away. As Kramer said, you can probably do this 'negotiating' yourself but our attorney knew exactly who to contact, what to say and how to do it and was worth every penny!

Guess I'll be flamed for this but...Too bad our DS didn't have the $$$, sounds like typical $$$ talks and everyone else just winds up paying. Funny thing is today I had an older gentleman in a new Lexus make a left turn on red right in front of me. A little closer and I would have T-boned him. Guess he wasn't too worried, maybe because he has the $$$ to do whatever he feels like.

My suit is on.

 

[JKMastalski]

Kramer - Thank you for the informative insight without ASSUMING anything. Your post was exactly the information I was looking for.

John VN on the other hand, as I had mentioned, My DH was going 45 MPH in the left lane. In case you are not familiar with the NJ Turnpike, the Speed limit is 65 and most of the time, all cars are going a minimum of 75-85 MPH. Going 45 MPH in the left lane of a major highway, was a fine speed for what the conditions were. My DH Drives between 200-300 miles PER DAY , 5 days a week, I believe he is aware of his surroundings and knowing what speed is appropriate for the conditions of which he drives every day.

It sounds to me that you might be a little bitter about people that drive nice cars and can afford attorneys. I agree with SwanMom about paying the $350. You obviously don't have any idea what car insurance is like in New Jersey and Philadelphia.

 

[swanmom]

JohnVN,
No flames here. Actually, I posted the message you quoted and you'll be surprised to hear that, in part, I agree with you. The accident was not my DH's fault (a tree limb hit the hood of the car without warning) and nobody else was hurt nor was anyone else's property damaged. To this day, we're not sure why the policeman bothered to cite DH. If there had been any adverse consequences to anyone but ourselves (as there was in your case), it would have been a different story. I was, however, still appalled at the way the system works in our state and probably many others. It is absolutely expected that many people 'bargain' down their citations to lesser offenses which carry fines instead of points. In fact, they encourage it. It was the policeman who cited DH who told him to 'work the system' to get a lesser charge. In this way, the city gets the $$ in the form of fines instead of the insurance company getting the $$. And, although we chose to have one, you actually don't need a lawyer to do make a deal. The night we went to court more than 35 people were lined up to see the Pros. Attorney. In fact, he had a desk set up in the hallway outside of court to 'cut deals' right before court. So, the system is set up to unfairly generate money .... and I do think it stinks. I don't see it as 'the rich folks getting off. ' We're far from rich and it was a big unwelcome punch in the family budget for us. Rather, I see it as 'paying off' the town when we got caught in an unfair system. I was actually quite angry about it but we don't have the resources or funds to 'fight city hall' on an unfair ticket.

 

[John VN]

JKMastalski-I am very familiar with the Pike and Parkway since NJ is the state I left to live here in Fl. I have driven many years up north in all weather conditions and can state from experience that chances are pretty good one has not witnessed a true downpour until one has driven in a frog choker down here and upon doing so you will most assuredly adjust your speed very quickly.

Doing 45mph in a bad rain storm can be too fast for many roads simply because the surfaces of the roads might not shed water as quickly as they should during heavy downpours. Puddles can form resulting in hydroplaning when speeds are too high and tire tread is not sufficient to disperse the water.

We have 70mph limits and I will admit to slowing down to 20mph when the rain gets bad and these roads are designed to shed water from these storms.

I have no disdain for people who have more money than me. I just believe that one should fess up and pay what is due without working the system.

swanmom-Sorry if I offended you but I did not read anything about a tree limb hitting the car. An occurrence of this type is not related to a personal misjudgement in handling a vehicle. At some point there should be no BARGAINING allowed.

 

[Kramer]

Kramer - Thank you for the informative insight without ASSUMING anything. Your post was exactly the information I was looking for.

Glad I could help!

 

[Kramer]

Definitely a good post by Kramer and exactly what our experience was when my DH had a minor accident (we live in NJ.) We did hire an attorney - $350. -because she had lots of experience (and colleagues) in the town where he was cited. She 'bargained' with the Pros. Attorney and had charges reduced to a fine and unsafe driving ... just as Kramer said. She was well worth the fee considering what she saved us on NJ's outrageous insurance rates for several years until the points would have gone away. As Kramer said, you can probably do this 'negotiating' yourself but our attorney knew exactly who to contact, what to say and how to do it and was worth every penny!

Having a lawyer is always a good idea, but you can definitely do this on your own. You can always go to the first appearance and speak to the prosecutor on your own and then ask for an adjournment to seek an attorney if you don't like how it goes.

 

[Kramer]

Guess I'll be flamed for this but...Too bad our DS didn't have the $$$, sounds like typical $$$ talks and everyone else just winds up paying. Funny thing is today I had an older gentleman in a new Lexus make a left turn on red right in front of me. A little closer and I would have T-boned him. Guess he wasn't too worried, maybe because he has the $$$ to do whatever he feels like.

My suit is on.

No flames here... just an observation.

Plea bargaining is a recognized part of the municipal court process. Without plea bargains, the courts would have a huge backload of cases because people would be reluctant to plead guilty and would want trials.

You don't need $$$ for an attorney for a minor traffic violation. A DWI is another matter, but otherwise you can likely get the same deal with an attorney as you can without one. Especially if you have a fairly clean record. If you drive like a maniac then you might need a good attorney to plead your case. The only other advantage to getting an attorney is that you get out of court quicker... usually they will dispose of attorney cases first as a favor to their fellow lawyers. So if you don't mind the wait you can usually spare the expense of a lawyer.

And as I said in an earlier post... if you have trouble negotiating the matter on your own you are entitled to ask for an adjournment to seek an attorney.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

this is what i was going to say. hydroplaning is, by its very definition, driving too fast for the road conditions.

i bet if your dh contests it in court they will lower it.

I've hydroplaned on a roadway when I was driving much slower than conditions.

Hydroplaning is NOT by definition driving too fast for conditions.

It is:

to skim on water; especially of a vehicle : to skid on a wet surface (as pavement) because a film of water on the surface causes the tires to lose contact with it

(Thanks websters).

AT the time it was a horrendous downpour that suddenly happened while I was on my way to work. I was absolutely terrified of the conditions and did slow down. I still hydroplaned despite the reduced speeed.

 

[DawnCt1]

I don't think that most people object to the fine of a citation. Afterall, $85 is a lot less than what many people make in a days' work, plus the inconvenience of having to go to court. That said, what I would want to avoid is the "Gift that keeps on giving". An increase in insurance premiums that often follow you much longer than many felony convictions. Under any conditions, I would fight a traffic ticket. Don't forget, many municipalities DEPEND upon traffic tickets to meet their local budgets. In most states, half goes to the state and the other half back to the towns. Coming up with a bogus traffic ticket is NOT uncommon. DS 22 at the time, received $125 fine for failing to lower high beams (the cop was passing him in the opposite direction). The high beams had never been on. The trunk was had snow tire rims. And another $125 for failure to illuminate the license plate. DS turned off the car when the cop pulled him over for the "high beams". Now $250 for a college student is more than 2 weeks pay plus the potential hit on the insurance. If you think that the police do not do this kind of thing on purpose, you would be mistaken. He wrote a letter and his case was dismissed through the mail. He didn't even have to show up. The entire thing was ridiculous. In my opinion, if they can write tickets without probable cause, the recipient is entitled to fight everyone one of them.