Minimum wage, food costs & tipping guidelines in other countries

[Eeyore's Pal]

First off, I want to say that in the US, the federal minimum wage is $7.15.

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. That may be the minimum wage in your state, but it is not the Federal minimum wage.

US Dept of Labor link.

"The federal minimum wage for covered nonexempt employees is $5.85 per hour effective July 24, 2007. The federal minimum wage provisions are contained in the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). Many states also have minimum wage laws. In cases where an employee is subject to both the state and federal minimum wage laws, the employee is entitled to the higher of the two minimum wages. "

In most states, tipped positions are paid half or less than minimum wage.
I don't agree with this pay structure, but I certainly will not penalize an individual server because they are stuck within this system.

I think of the tip as part of the cost of the meal and decide where and what to eat based on whether I am willing to pay the total cost of that meal. It is no different to me than making a decision to order online and pay exorbitant shipping costs. If you don't like the restaurant prices, don't eat there. Eat there and take it out on your server by undertipping....absurd.

I tip 20% for good service, and more when service is exceptional. I tip less for poor service, and complain to a manager if it is really bad.

ETA: Poor food quality is not the server's fault. That's a problem in the kitchen and should be addressed with the manager.

 

[beaker]

In Florida minimum wage will go up a dime on Jan 1st 2008 to $6.79. For tip position minimum wage will be $3.77.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . I worked with the good ole' John P. Public during the Christmas season in NYC one year while I was in college. It is by the grace of god, I didn't leap over a table and choke the life out of some one . . .

1) We have two restaurants
. . . neighborhood diner (even has a blue-plate special)
. . . fine dining
2) Anyone who mistreats our girls, is asked to leave immediately.
3) We have actually had applause when we ushered out some people.
4) I'll take the loss of the food to stop the girls from being mistreated.
5) PERIOD.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

In regards to our meal costs, they are pretty reasonable in most cases, yet we have very high food, labour and tax costs (we pay some of the highest tax rates in the world), yet this isn't necessarily reflected in soaring meal costs. Customers will only pay so much for their food, period, so I guess I'm wondering why people are so acceptable of Disney paying such low wages, yet charging such high prices for food?

Tiger

This must be dependant on the location, & whether or not it's a tourist area. My family had a few meals in Vancouver, a tourist destination, that cost over $150 for the 3 of us. That's w/o alcohol. After our experience, you'd have a hard time convincing us that Canada has cornered the market on great food at a cheap price. We had some good meals, but they definitely weren't cheap. That was fine with us, because we don't mind paying for good food, when we're on vacation. Being American, we also tipped 20%. It never occurred to us not to tip that much. I'm sure our servers loved us.

 

[sandym718]

Phew, glad when i got to these last few posts. I was getting confused. Minimum wage here in OH is still $5-something I believe, nowhere near $7.15. And we also were recently in Canada (Niagara Falls) and did not find food prices to be inexpensive!!! Maybe a tourist area vs. non-tourist area thing??

I personally don't believe in the whole tip thing at all, that's just me. I work my tail off for very little $$ also (social work) and I do a good job/hard work no matter what. Why? #1 My ethics #2 If I didn't, I'd lose my job. I'd rather see the restauant industry pay a fair wage, raise prices as needed, and drop tips. Have managers manage their staff as other managers do - keeping the incentive for good work through performance reviews, comment cards, and merit raises. That's not the way it works here in the U.S., though, so I tip accordingly. 20% for good service, more for excellent service, lower for BAD service (down to 10% or so).

 

[PottersMom]

Customers will only pay so much for their food, period, so I guess I'm wondering why people are so acceptable of Disney paying such low wages, yet charging such high prices for food?

Tiger

I don't think it's fair to say that it's just Disney paying such low wages and charging a high price for food- this is how the restaurant business runs here. I have waited tables and tended bar at several restaurants (in the US). I was never paid more than $3 hourly- most of my income was from tips. (and fair enough, although the work was demanding, I was still able to pay my rent and have $$ left over each month).
Perhaps an analogy will help:
When you go to the mechanic, or you need your air conditioner/heater repaired, you get a bill with 2 charges: parts and labor. your check at a restaurant is the same: Parts, (or food & drinks) & labor (server, hostess, busser, bartender).

When you go to the mechanic, the parts they use are defective, or of poor quality, you can complain and have them replaced, or perhaps receive a discount- but you still have to pay the labor charges.
BUT, if the parts are good, but the labor was poor, (slow, inattentive to detail, etc.) then you may receive a discount on the labor, but you usually have to pay for the parts. It's the same in a restaurant. I hope that explains the wages/ tipping situation in the US.

If you are asking why, say, Spaghetti with meatballs costs $16 at your restaurant in Canada and no tip is required, but the same dish costs $16 at Epcot plus an 18% gratuity- even though you use higher quality ingredients... I think the answer is in your original post:
"Customers will only pay so much for their food, period"

We pay $16 for sub par spaghetti because that's what it costs. We tip 18%(or more!) because that's what good service costs.
We still have a choice, if we don't want to pay $16 for mediocre spaghetti, then we can always go to Sunshine Seasons and have rotisserie chicken and mashed potatoes for $8, (a pretty good deal, I think) and serve ourselves. I think people are a lot more likely to pay $16 for ok spaghetti at WDW, than the locally owned business in town because they are a captive audience. How many times a year do you eat at a restaurant in WDW in 1 year- 3, 5, 7? How many times do you eat at a local restaurant? Probably more, but only if it's a good value.

 

[kaytieeldr]

First off, I want to say that in the US, the federal minimum wage is $7.15. This is what people who work at McDonald's, Pizza Hut (where my son works), Wendy's, etc make per hour to start.

Mmm... it's not. As of July 24, 2007, the federal minimum wage for non-exempt employees has been $5.85 (the first increase in several years). Same date next year it goes up to $6.55, and $7.25 a year later. Now, a given state's minimum wage supercedes the federal one - IF the former is higher. So, while your state's minimum wage is $7.15 an hour, that's not true for every state. That same McDonald's worker in a state with a low or no minimum wage is still only earning $5.85 an hour (up from $5.15).

I honestly didn't know that Disney's servers got paid that little -

Just for general information - this pay structure is NOT unique to Disney. While a few states - for example, California - have laws requiring that servers be paid the same minimum wage as everybody else, this NOT true of MOST states in this country.

as then the restaurant is never going to feel it - servers are tipped for great food when they never made it

Um, actually, when my ex was impressed with the food, or the prep - he'd ask for, and tip, the cook.

 

[DOOM1001]

If you work as server depending on what you make in tips it's possible you might get a paycheck for a 2 week period for $0.Usually that happens to servers who worked the busiest shifts and make the most in tips.I usually only worked lunches and my paycheck would be around $40-$50 for 2 weeks,yes people, servers live off tips,a tip is not a little extra as some see it.

Also remember servers at most busy restaurants are having to tip out bartenders,bussers,food runners,sometimes the host staff.So even if they got 15% on every table they are going to end up tipping out about a 1/3 of that so all they keep from what they made in tips could be around 10%.If you look at how much a server can ring up in an pretty busy restaurant it could be $500 on an average day and $1000 on a weekend day,so if they're averaging 15% on every check they would be walking with $50 for $500 in sales and $100 for $1000 in sales so 20% tips are highly appreciated.

 

[paulh]

one way disney could help clayfy the tip situation,on menue put what the server has to pay everone elce out of the 18%.that way we wouldent think it all went inot just one persons pocket
Paulh

 

[Tricia1972]

For those questioning the standard tipped wages for each state, here is a link to the US Department of Labor that shows the standard wage for each state.
http://www.dol.gov/esa/programs/whd/state/tipped.htm


Here is the same link, but for Canada
http://www.crfa.ca/research/resources/minimumwages.asp

For England
http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/pay/national-minimum-wage/index.html


For most of Europe
http://www.fedee.com/minwage.html

 

[Tiger926]

Sorry, this is the first time I've been able to get back as we had a family medical emergency yesterday.

Thanks to all, especially Tricia for supplying the minimum wage & tip links. It's so interesting to me to see how different countries pay their employees. For us in Canada, our minimum wage will be rising to over $10.00 in the next few years, and for a lot of small businesses, this means they will have to close, if they haven't already. We've had 4 long-standing restaurants close in our city over the past few months, as it's very difficult to own a small business in Canada, especially restaurants - extremely high taxes, wages, food costs, insurance and worker's compensation benefits basically leave nothing for the families running the restaurants. Much different than corporations like Disney who basically pay nothing to their staff & use sub-par food ingredients, which allows them to make a fabulous profit. Two different worlds.

In regards to Canadian meal costs - I was speaking about my own city. I live in a very ethnic, border city, so there is lots of competition as we have many excellent restaurants to choose from, most of which are family owned like my family's businesses - very hard work, only the best ingredients, pay very good wages, etc. We also go by the same tipping rules as your country, in that they range between 10-20%, but in my city, most patrons tip between 10-15%, as we don't have very many high-end restaurants as they are mainly family restaurants due to our economic climate.

This has been an interesting discussion. I absolutely still believe that by Disney paying so little (which as the chart shows, is allowed by Federal law) to their employees, and making the patrons subsidize their wages, it sets up a different climate in the restaurant. I really believe based on what I read on these boards, and conversations that I've had with Disney supervisors or restaurant managers, that Disney doens't really feel the sting of their sub-par menus as patrons take it out on the servers in their tips - and I think Disney knows this. When restaurants are busy, it takes up a lot of time and energy to speak to a manager about sub-par food, and so many times, it's not done. But when there is sub-par service, the tip is what speaks in that situation. Patrons should not be penalizing servers, but we all know it happens. When the food is excellent, servers are rewarded, but when it's not, servers are penalized, and this is not right, but this is the way the corporations set it up as it maximizes their profits. I have had horrible food at Disney (Chef Mickey's continues to get horrible reviews on these boards, yet it's still filled up), and those restaurants continue to pack people in - Disney will hardly feel the sting of bad food as it takes time out of a precious vacation to speak to someone about this, but servers are penalized for it constantly. This is why it would be ideal for Disney to pay their employees more per hour, as I really feel that Disney then has more ownership over what comes out of the kitchen, but in many cases, the service or entertainment is given top priority at Disney, and that is why Disney doesn't see many repercussions in regards to the sub-par food that they sell, IMHO.

Thanks for the discussion, Tiger

 

[gina2000]

When price exceed value, people will not patronize a restaurant. It will be interesting to see next year's bottom line at WDW restaurants with all the changes in the DDP, changes in portion size and changes in quality.

 

[PlutoLuvr]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but it's not just WDW that pays its servers such low amounts. Go around the corner to the Melting Pot or Carrabas or Bennigans or any restaurant in Orlando -- Florida -- actually, I guess most states now (I didn't about Cali), and this is the way servers are paid. I guess if you're used to this, as Americans are, most of us know not to omit a tip because of a kitchen issue. We know to separate service issues with restaurant issues.

I guess in high touristy areas with lots of foreign visitors, servers get stiffed a lot so we see what WDW did with the auto tip on the DDP and now the DDE.

But please don't single out WDW. You can go to any table-service type of restaurant in Orlando and feel this atmosphere. You can go up to Savannah and feel it or NYC or down to Miami or Fort Lauderdale.

And places like Chef Mickeys are still packed because Mickey Mouse comes to your table for pictures. It's buffet food otherwise -- pretty nasty buffet food, as is every buffet I've ever tried at WDW. You simply can't compare restaurants at WDW or even USO with your hometown situation, even in high tourist areas. The bottom line is we're talking about Mickey Mouse and his friends, WDW, pixie dust, princesses, nostalgia. You leave the real world behind and real world comparisons when you step on property. If anyone's going to compare restaurants with their own family-owned restaurants or their hometown restaurants, be fair and compare apples to apples.

 

[Tricia1972]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but it's not just WDW that pays its servers such low amounts. Go around the corner to the Melting Pot or Carrabas or Bennigans or any restaurant in Orlando -- Florida -- actually, I guess most states now (I didn't about Cali), and this is the way servers are paid. I guess if you're used to this, as Americans are, most of us know not to omit a tip because of a kitchen issue. We know to separate service issues with restaurant issues.

I guess in high touristy areas with lots of foreign visitors, servers get stiffed a lot so we see what WDW did with the auto tip on the DDP and now the DDE.

But please don't single out WDW. You can go to any table-service type of restaurant in Orlando and feel this atmosphere. You can go up to Savannah and feel it or NYC or down to Miami or Fort Lauderdale.

And places like Chef Mickeys are still packed because Mickey Mouse comes to your table for pictures. It's buffet food otherwise -- pretty nasty buffet food, as is every buffet I've ever tried at WDW. You simply can't compare restaurants at WDW or even USO with your hometown situation, even in high tourist areas. The bottom line is we're talking about Mickey Mouse and his friends, WDW, pixie dust, princesses, nostalgia. You leave the real world behind and real world comparisons when you step on property. If anyone's going to compare restaurants with their own family-owned restaurants or their hometown restaurants, be fair and compare apples to apples.

I did post the guidelines of minimum wage for tipped positions just a little bit ago. I also found links for some other countries and posted them as well. Comparing the different practices is quite interesting.

For those questioning the standard tipped wages for each state, here is a link to the US Department of Labor that shows the standard wage for each state.
http://www.dol.gov/esa/programs/whd/state/tipped.htm


Here is the same link, but for Canada
http://www.crfa.ca/research/resources/minimumwages.asp

For England
http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/pay/national-minimum-wage/index.html


For most of Europe
http://www.fedee.com/minwage.html

 

[bicker]

This has been an interesting discussion. I absolutely still believe that by Disney paying so little (which as the chart shows, is allowed by Federal law) to their employees, and making the patrons subsidize their wages, it sets up a different climate in the restaurant.

Fostered by patrons ratifying the system, instead of going elsewhere for their vacations.

I really believe based on what I read on these boards, and conversations that I've had with Disney supervisors or restaurant managers, that Disney doens't really feel the sting of their sub-par menus as patrons take it out on the servers in their tips - and I think Disney knows this.

I don't buy it. There are lots of places to work in Orlando, and quite often (and not that long ago) there was (is still?) a labor shortage in the area. If there wre better paying jobs elsewhere, Disney would not be the highly desirable job it is.

When price exceed value, people will not patronize a restaurant. It will be interesting to see next year's bottom line at WDW restaurants with all the changes in the DDP, changes in portion size and changes in quality.

Absolutely. I'm pretty confident that Disney will see a significant improvement over what they would have earned otherwise (though the absolute numbers may go down because of what I foresee as an impending economic down-turn).

I found this message this morning in another forum I read and thought it was very relevant.... I've changed a couple of words to make it a little more generic than it was when originally posted, but Hammy won't mind:

We can debate till the cows come home, what is appropriate tip versus included in the base cost. It really does not matter.This is how it is done. ... [Vacationing] is discretionary. When and if the consumer cannot reconcile to tipping standards, they can choose to not [vacation]. Maybe the all inclusive is a better option or perhaps, a vacation at home is the best choice, for some.

 

[sandym718]

That's a great quote Bicker, I agree with hammy 100%. I don't like the tipping concept as it's practiced in the U.S., but I like to dine out, I like to go on vacation, etc. etc. So I adapt to the way it is. If I ever grew so horrified by the practice that I just couldn't tip appropriately (for the current situation) then my choice would be to stay home/eat fast food, etc. That will never happen with me - I don't like it, but it's not a big enough deal to make me give up all that I like!!

 

[TDC Nala]

I guess in high touristy areas with lots of foreign visitors, servers get stiffed a lot so we see what WDW did with the auto tip on the DDP and now the DDE.

DDP never had an automatic gratuity added for the customer to pay. It was included as a selling point. Apparently Disney decided it couldn't afford to include it anymore.

And DDE...how many foreign visitors are going to have a DDE card? I don't even know how many of them would be annual passholders to begin with.

 

[N.Bailey]

I should probably back out of this discussion, but I'm just too bull headed for that.

Thanks for the clarification on the Federal minimum wage, everyone. My daughter dates a guy who is 17, and my son started working at Pizza Hut over the summer. He was 16 at that time, and just turned 17 himself 3 days ago. I couldn't count the number of times those boys had me pulling up minimum wage information. PA went to $7.15 per hour in July and these 2 were on cloud 9. I must have gotten confused with the Feds raising it to $7.25 (in like 2 years) somewhere along the line. So, I do stand corrected on that and appreciate you taking the time to show me where I was wrong.

Now, I wanted to address the OP and this is where I should have probably backed out of the discussion. If you feel paying help even $10 per hour, not giving them benefits (though you have insurance in Canada that we don't here), expecting them to work terrible shifts, practically every weekend of their life is paying someone well, that tells me how you view the employees in your family's restaurant. Those guys in the kitchen sweat their butts off from the time they walk in to work, till the time they leave. Maybe you should try it and see how you'd like it? I find myself getting very resentful of your posts.

Everyone who works in the restaurant business busts their butts. Luckily for the wait staff that they do get tipped, not all are so fortunate. Those who don't are extremely underpaid, IMO. Now, I can understand someone who has never worked in a restaurant a day in their life thinking otherwise (and I know a lot can be said for other professions as well, but I don't address them in this thread because we're discussing wait staff here), but you're different as you seem to have had some experience in the field. I just find it appalling that anyone in the know could say how well they pay, then go on to say that their country will be raising the minimum to $10 per hour. That suggests the staff isn't even paid that much, yet the claim is tossed out at how well you pay.

The restaurant where I worked, the UN tipped staff was in to the $15 category (still not big bucks for what they do and no benefits), if they've been there for any length of time. True that you don't walk in the door making that, but if you stick it out, you get there. At least it's some incentive. Do you know what Disney pays the non tipped positions? I'm not talking to start, either. IMO, you're making a rash judgement, without having all the facts in front of you.

And for the record, I'd be curious where you eat at Disney. While it's true that some restaurants use cheaper ingredients, that's not the case for all of their restaurants. For the record, there is a reason they closed Alfredo's down. I didn't care much for it myself. I also tend to think the buffets have a poor quality to them (overall, there are exceptions), so I take that into consideration when I choose not to eat there.

Truly, I have never in my life heard from someone in the business (and you do have tipping there), complaining about having to tip the wait staff. I'm not being smart, but I have really, never experienced that in my life.

 

[Pooh Bear Hugs]

Just thought id share the tipping and wage culture here in the UK.

I work as a waitress in my local pizza hut. Minimum wage is the UK is £5.52/hr, so about $11 at the current exchange rates. This applies to everyone, whether in a tipped position or not.

Only exception is age. There is a lower mimimum wage for under 22's but i think it is about £4/hr.

However tipping is generally very poor compared to the US here. Obviously there are some exceptions, generally younger couples tip more. Average is less than 10% though.

My colleague had a large table last night that were a walk up and lucky to get a table straight away on a busy night. They had appetisers, entrees, desserts and then hot drinks. The bill was pushing £100 ($200) but they didnt leave her a tip at all . However, this wasnt for bad serivce because they commended her to our manager on the way out.

I guess some people just dont beleive in tipping full stop.


Waiting tables is a hard job, and i think some customers dont realise just how hard it is. However, id swap it anyday for my previous job which was a critical care nurse!

Tipping in pizza hut Ok so I do tip but only £2 a time. Waitstaff in the UK earn a reasonable wage and don't need the tips to live on. In the uk I feel comfortable not tipping and we've never had a problem, If the service is good I tip if not I don't. There are a lot of people who work very hard for minimum wage who never complain, people who don't get any perks.

 

[kaytieeldr]

This has been an interesting discussion. I absolutely still believe that by Disney paying so little (which as the chart shows, is allowed by Federal law) to their employees, and making the patrons subsidize their wages, it sets up a different climate in the restaurant.

But it doesn't set up a different climate in the restaurant. It 'sets up' exactly the same climate as exists in the restaurants throughout Florida and in MOST states in this country.
If you mean a different climate from other Cast Member wages, this TOO is the climate throughout the state and the country. Retail employees (the equivalent of retail CMs) all over earn the federal minimum wage or better. Let's use Rainforest as an example. The person operating the cash register in the retail section at Downtown Disney earns a wage equivalent* to someone in the same position in Burlington, MA - while the servers at the DTD Rainforest earn the equivalent* server minimum wage to the servers in the Burlington location.

*Equivalent vs. equal because our state's minimum wages are somewhat higher than the federal law] - but servers in customarily-tipped positions still earn a base of only $2.67 an hour. That's only a little more than I was earning in retail thirty years ago.