Miers Supported Ban on Most Abortions

DianeV said:
You can say should or could or I am not responsible for them but you arent being realistic at all

In a perfect world it would be your way but its not and we all have to deal with that - you cant on one hand try to say we should force women to have babies if they get pregnant for whatever reason but then say hey its your kid when they do have it. How many of those who harass women at clinics would be willing to tell that woman if they have the baby they will raise it for her?

Alot of judging but but no helping
I'm being quite realistic. I simply expect individuals to accept responsibility for the choices they make, rather than assume that someone else (or society) should be available, willing and able to bail them out when things don't go as planned. If someone is not willing to accept the responsibility, then maybe they shouldn't be engaging in activities that could lead to that responsibility.
 
cardaway said:
And what about while these women carrying the baby. It's entirely likely that somebody with an unwanted pregnancy is not going to follow, or even be finacially able to follow the recommended process for carrying that baby to term. What do you plan to do about that?
I don't plan to do anything about it because I didn't make the choice to engage in the behavior that resulted in an unwanted pregnancy. If someone doesn't want to get pregnant, there are ways, although not 100% effective, to put the odds in your favor of NOT getting pregnant. If someone chooses NOT to use those tools and have sex anyway, they should be willing to accept the consequences. Their choice, their responsibility.
 
Tigger, the thing is you may not like it and you may think its irresponsible but its legal and a woman has the right to do it. If you dont want a woman to do something she has a legal right to do then I ask you what you can offer that woman to encourage her to not do it? I cant think of anything besides taking the baby and raising it or giving her money to help her and even that doesnt ensure a good life for that child - you cant control who has sex and who used protection etc. so my question is what is your solution when they do have sex and dont use protection or it fails? Is making them keep a baby they dont want helping them or the baby?

The realistic part is realizing that not everyone has sex only for procreation (sp?) and not everyone has sex responsibly. We can try to discourage that but realistically it is happening. Why not worry about what you as someone who is against abortion can do to help that child you insist on having someone bring into the world? Realistically you are not going to change peoples sexual habits..you are not going to change people getting raped or having incest done to them...and making abortion illegal is going to cost more lives in the long run because people will still have them, they will just have them unsafely...I surely hope you wouldnt think anyone who did that would deserve to die from it because it is not done safely?

No I dont condone using abortion as birth control and I dont believe the numbers of those who do are extremely high. Most times its a difficult choice for a woman and not something taken lightly.
 
Tigger_Magic said:
I don't plan to do anything about it because I didn't make the choice to engage in the behavior that resulted in an unwanted pregnancy. If someone doesn't want to get pregnant, there are ways, although not 100% effective, to put the odds in your favor of NOT getting pregnant. If someone chooses NOT to use those tools and have sex anyway, they should be willing to accept the consequences. Their choice, their responsibility.

A very good defintion of people not taking repsonsibility for the consequences of their actions.

Don't want the reponsibility of the baby you are fighting for, then don't create the consequences by making abortion illegal.
 

Not everyone has an abortion because the pregnancy is unwanted. Sometimes, terminating a pregnancy is a heart-breaking decision because the baby you wanted so badly doesn't have a chance at life outside the womb.

As human beings, we need to accept that we don't have the final say in what everyone else does. The best we can do is make our own decisions and do our best to live with them.
 
DianeV said:
Tigger, the thing is you may not like it and you may think its irresponsible but its legal and a woman has the right to do it. If you dont want a woman to do something she has a legal right to do then I ask you what you can offer that woman to encourage her to not do it? I cant think of anything besides taking the baby and raising it or giving her money to help her and even that doesnt ensure a good life for that child - you cant control who has sex and who used protection etc. so my question is what is your solution when they do have sex and dont use protection or it fails? Is making them keep a baby they dont want helping them or the baby?

The realistic part is realizing that not everyone has sex only for procreation (sp?) and not everyone has sex responsibly. We can try to discourage that but realistically it is happening. Why not worry about what you as someone who is against abortion can do to help that child you insist on having someone bring into the world? Realistically you are not going to change peoples sexual habits..you are not going to change people getting raped or having incest done to them...and making abortion illegal is going to cost more lives in the long run because people will still have them, they will just have them unsafely...I surely hope you wouldnt think anyone who did that would deserve to die from it because it is not done safely?

No I dont condone using abortion as birth control and I dont believe the numbers of those who do are extremely high. Most times its a difficult choice for a woman and not something taken lightly.
I've never said that having consensual sex is illegal. I've never said having an abortion is or should be illegal.

Having sex, getting pregnant and expecting someone else to take care of everything for you is not illegal, but it is completely irresponsible. Suggesting that this is a solution for unwanted pregnancies is, JMO, irresponsible.

I'm not trying to control anyone. Heaven knows, I can barely control myself sometimes so how could I even think I could control anyone else. My point is simply that individuals accept responsibility for their choices/actions. That's it. Quit expecting society to bail people out who act irresponsibily.

I don't like abortion as birth control either, however, it is available and it is the law of the land. Women can use it for that purpose. I don't protest it; I don't question it; while I may not like it, I wouldn't support overturning it. Again, it is a choice each woman can make. Their body; their choice; their responsibility.
 
AllyandJack said:
Not everyone has an abortion because the pregnancy is unwanted. Sometimes, terminating a pregnancy is a heart-breaking decision because the baby you wanted so badly doesn't have a chance at life outside the womb.

As human beings, we need to accept that we don't have the final say in what everyone else does. The best we can do is make our own decisions and do our best to live with them.

Well said..Or someone has an abortion because despite using 2 forms of BC they get prgnant,and there is a very good chance they could die if the continue the pregnancy,or at the least suffer another stroke or congestive heart failure
 
cardaway said:
A very good defintion of people not taking repsonsibility for the consequences of their actions.

Don't want the reponsibility of the baby you are fighting for, then don't create the consequences by making abortion illegal.
:confused3 I'm not fighting for anything, let alone making abortion illegal. I'm not sure where you got that from but lest it remain unclear: I am not proposing making abortion illegal. I don't like it, but it is the law of the land. While I don't believe it is a right found in the Constitution and I abhor the judicial activism that created it, I would fight against any conservative judicial activism to overturn Roe v. Wade.
 
Tigger_Magic said:
:confused3 I'm not fighting for anything, let alone making abortion illegal. I'm not sure where you got that from but lest it remain unclear: I am not proposing making abortion illegal. I don't like it, but it is the law of the land. While I don't believe it is a right found in the Constitution and I abhor the judicial activism that created it, I would fight against any conservative judicial activism to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Thanks. I didn't realize that until I saw your response to DianeV which made it very clear. Thanks for the discussion.

As you may have seen in the illegal alien thread, we agree in financial reponsibilty as a whole. I just don't like where those pushing to make abortion illegal are taking us. A world with a lot more teen mothers with a lower support structure around them. The hits to society will be wide spread.

I'm all for adults being responsible, but that isn't who we are talking about in many cases.
 
cardaway said:
I just don't like where those pushing to make abortion illegal are taking us. A world with a lot more teen mothers with a lower support structure around them. The hits to society will be wide spread.

I'm all for adults being responsible, but that isn't who we are talking about in many cases.

You don't like a world with more teen mothers, but you have not problem with a world that has no respect for basic human life? Can you explain that, because I don't understand it all.
 
JMD said:
You don't like a world with more teen mothers, but you have not problem with a world that has no respect for basic human life? Can you explain that, because I don't understand it all.

As usual, disagreement of when life begins is part of the equation. When they are viable outside the womb, I'll be right there with you fighting for them.
 
cardaway said:
http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2005/10/18/244253.html

WASHINGTON - Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers pledged support in 1989 for a constitutional amendment banning abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, according to material given to the Senate on Tuesday.

"If Congress passes a Human Life Amendment to the Constitution that would prohibit abortion except when it was necessary to prevent the death of the mother, would you actively support its ratification by the Texas Legislature," asked an April 1989 questionnaire sent out by the Texans United for Life group.

Miers checked "yes" to that question, and all of the group's questions, including whether she would oppose the use of public moneys for abortions and whether she would use her influence to keep "pro-abortion" people off city health boards and commissions.

The survey was part of the material sent to the Senate with Miers' Supreme Court questionnaire, according to two people, one a Senate official and the other a conservative Republican consultant working with the White House on her nomination. Both spoke on condition of anonymity, noting the papers are part of the vetting process.

The abortion issue hangs over Miers' nomination much as it did over the appointment of Chief Justice John Roberts earlier this year. The situations are different, however _ Roberts replaced the late William Rehnquist, who voted to overturn the 1973 abortion ruling. Miers would succeed retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who has voted to uphold it.

"A candidate taking a political position in the course of a campaign is different from the role of a judge making a ruling in the judicial process." said Jim ****, a White House spokesman.

Miers' nomination has been met with skepticism from some conservatives, who say she has little by way of a record to establish her views on abortion, affirmative action and other issues. The Texans United for Life questionnaire is the first public indication of how Miers feels about abortion, although some of her supporters have assured conservatives that they believe she would overturn the Supreme Court's landmark Roe v. Wade ruling.

Senators say Miers has insisted that she has not given anyone any assurances that she would overturn Roe v. Wade if given the chance.

"She said nobody knows my views on Roe v. Wade. Nobody can speak for me on Roe v. Wade," said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., on Monday, referring to the case that guaranteed women's constitutional right to an abortion, setting a legal precedent that abortion foes have been trying to overturn ever since.

In the questionnaire that she turned in the Judiciary Committee, Miers answered "no" to questions asking whether anyone during the nomination process discussed specific cases or legal issues with her to get an assurance on her positions. She also answered "no" to whether she told anyone how she might rule if confirmed.

The questionnaire also reveals that the White House was considering Miers for its first Supreme Court nomination along with now-Chief Justice John Roberts.

"When Justice Sandra Day O'Connor first announced her desire to retire, I was asked whether my name should be considered," she said in the questionnaire. "I indicated at that time that I did not want to be considered."

Miers said she then led the staff search that ended in Roberts' nomination. But she said her role was more passive after Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist died.

"At some point I understand that individuals at the White House began considering me," she wrote. During four meetings with Deputy White House Counsel William Kelley, Chief of Staff Andrew Card and Bush, Miers said she "realized that my name was under consideration."

Bush offered her the position over dinner Oct. 2 and she accepted, she wrote.

The committee is expected to announce soon the November date for her confirmation hearings and hopes to vote on the nomination before Thanksgiving.

Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said Monday he was consulting with Senate Democrats as well as Miers before setting a date to begin questioning the White House counsel on her suitability to sit on the high court.

"The hearings will not start until there is a date agreeable to her," Specter told reporters. "It would be unfair to start the hearings before she is ready."

Miers met with Specter and other committee senators on Monday, and was continuing to make calls Tuesday with senators outside the committee, such as conservatives Sens. John Thune of South Dakota and Wayne Allard of Colorado.


Cool!! :cool1:
 
Charade said:
So you'd be ok with a "good parent" test before we allow people to have children? We sorta have one AFTER the fact but it's too late then, the horse is already out and someone just closed the barn door.

"putting them down" by "calling them irresponsible"?? They ARE irresponsible IF they have an unplanned pregnancy. How else would you describe it? When someone does something irresponsible (but not necessarily illegal), shouldn't they be held accountable in some way?

PLANNING a pregnancy does not always make for a responsible parent either.

Some people who planned their children are just such "wonderful" mothers. Take Andrea Yates, Susan Smith and Diane Downs for example.

Keeping your fetus does not make you a saint. And aborting it does not make you evil.
 

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