Michael Moore and Disney back in business

Tom,
I agree, and if we would have spoken up like this 3 months ago we would have been labeled traitors. It just doesn't add up, this war will make an attack on us more likely not less. Especially in light of the fact that WMD don't exist. I cannot even fathom what we spent on this war and what it could have done to our educational system.
 
It's rather interesting that Michael Moore is able to set aside his deeply held personal convictions and accept capital from a right-wing media giant such as Disney. I'm sure there is an explanation besides simple hypocrisy.

Then again, perhaps one must sacrifice to get out the Peace Through Ignorance message to us drooling masses.
 
Right-wing media giant? I thought Disney was the anti-family, left-wing, homosexual-loving demon company?

What right-wing company would ever consider funding Michael Moore? Especially when there's so much more money to be made from licking GWB's boots?
 

Originally posted by Golter
I cannot even fathom what we spent on this war and what it could have done to our educational system.
I can - just screw it up even more, just as the money we have poured into it for the last 40 years has done.
 
Saddam is sitting on a beach somewhere (sans mustache) with about a billion dollars and will never be heard from again, so what did he fear?

He's not on the beach - he's hiding under the sand. What's his billion dollars going to get him? He'll never reign again.

I'm sure there is an explanation besides simple hypocrisy.
Ha! What's green, idolized more than any diety, disguised as a capitalist and consumed at record speed by the entertainment industry? No self respecting psuedo-celebrity would dare leave home without it!
The reason we haven't been able to find anything is because it's just not there.
What's more important - finding WMD or returning the victims of genocide to their loved ones for a proper burial. You people fail to see the big picture here. We all get it and no matter what the political spin is - it will not make one bit of difference to those of us paying close attention to what is being unearthed over there. Sanctions did nothing to prevent that dictator from killing his people. It was failed foreign policy at its finest.
 
You're living in a dream land if you think "Genocide" had anything to do with the reasons this war was committed. That's a convenient excuse, one in a line of many. The fact is we probably killed as many Iraqis as Hussein ever did. How many innocent civilians are worth killing to stop a dictator from killing innocent civilians?
 
Earth to brain dead liberals:

The greatest weapon of mass destruction has been destroyed by the Iraq war.

It was Saddam Hussein's regime — history’s biggest killer of Muslims, with upwards of 1,000,000 in the wars he launched, plus 300,000 (and counting) in the mass graves being uncovered daily around Iraq.

The spectacle of Islamic leaders grumbling at us for a war which ended the biggest killing spree of Muslims ever shows that. Islamic leaders will grumble at us for anything. And do.

For self-styled “peace advocates” to remain bitter at President Bush for liberating Iraq shows their acceptance of the “peace” of the dead above the joy of human life.

Hundreds of children — eight, nine, 10, 11 years old — languished in Saddam’s prisons before being freed by coalition forces. I’d like these so-called “peace advocates” and sundry Muslim leaders to meet in a room with these kids 10 years from now and explain why they should have remained in Saddam’s dungeons instead of living their lives.

The third wave of blasting Bush is underway — now gleefully piling on the lack of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) yet found in Iraq.

The first wave attempted to block Bush’s launching the liberation. Its key weapon was rampant fear-mongering. For instance, Brookings Institution analysts Philip H. Gordon and Michael E. O'Hanlon concluded, among many other dire warnings, that "the United States could lose thousands of troops" in a war in Iraq. Of course, these two are now hiding as they wipe the stale egg off their ugly, liberal faces.

Other commentators were yet scarier. Attempting regime change would trigger Scud and other missile attacks to obliterate Israel and U.S. troops stationed in the region; provoke the igniting of thousands of Iraqi oil fields; prompt a wave of terrorism across America; impel mobs into the Arab street to foment revolution against friendly regimes; cause flooding across Iraqi plains; induce Saddam Hussein to attack us and his own people with chemical and biological weapons.

This fear-mongering list could go on (and usually did!).

Taking first prize among the many frightful forecasters was the respected former national security adviser Brent Scowcroft. His influential Wall Street Journal piece of Aug. 15, 2002, said Israel "would have to expect to be the first casualty," which could easily cause that country "to respond, perhaps with nuclear weapons, unleashing an Armageddon in the Middle East."

While we in the liberate-Iraq camp have been castigated for exaggeration, nothing any of us said, or even suggested, can match that.

The second wave of Bush-blasting came during the war, with some retired U.S. generals — virtually “embedded” in television studios, as Vice President Cheney quipped — lamenting that there were too few coalition troops and too much Iraqi resistance. Quick as a flash, The New York Times rolled into its reflex action of trotting out the Q word. Another quagmire; another Vietnam.

Just as the “this is no cakewalk” cliché was gaining traction, U.S. Marines cakewalked into Baghdad in half the time with half the casualties of the initial Gulf War (which was often acknowledged to be a cakewalk).

The third wave is more promising at this point. At least, it’s not been totally disproved yet.

It holds that Bush launched the war merely over Saddam’s maintaining and developing gobs of weapons of mass destruction and having ties to international terrorist networks.

I’ll admit that I’m surprised we haven’t found gobs of weapons of mass destruction yet. Surely the impression given of their size and proximity to the battlefield front was greater than we found them to be.

Yet if Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction program, why would he pretend he had?

Why would he give 15 out of the 15 members of the U.N. Security Council (including Syria) reason to find him in “material breach” of previous U.N. resolutions that mandated that he end any weapons of mass destruction program?

And why would he forgo some $180 billion worth of income — the estimate from 12 years of U.N. imposed sanctions — rather than come clean and show that his actions justified lifting the embargo?

Saddam was evil, but wasn’t that stupid.

Confessions by top Iraqis and discoveries by top U.S. weapons investigators will reveal his ties to the weapons of mass destruction and international terrorists. The third wave will get disproved.

Yet by then, a fourth wave of Bush-blasting will likely have begun. For the liberal freedom haters will never stop.
 
Earth to lying, war-mongering conservatives:

Your claims are as exaggerated and ridiculous as Bush's. Who gave Hussein the weapons to use against Iran and supported him in his killing of Muslims? Any statement that this war was launched to "free the Iraqi people" is an out-and-out lie. The purpose was to cement US control of the region. A nice by-product is the lining of the pockets of wealthy Republican contributors.

The first wave of lies in support of the war was the imminent danger of WMD attacks. The UN never said he had them- it said he wasn't cooperating with inspectors. The inspectors say he didn't have them. Our own intelligence, even before the war, said that there was no imminent threat. The entire world said this was not a situation that called for war. Except for Bush and his lap dog Blair. This first wave was supported by fudged and politically-spun intelligence, as well as out-and-out forgeries and fabrications. Anybody remember the "Red Line" drawn around Baghdad, at which point the holocaust of chemical weapons would be released against US troops? Oh, wait, the story now is that those were already buried or sent to other countries. I have trouble keeping track of all the stories.

The second wave of lies was the link between Iraq and Al-Quaeda. This one was supported by nothing more than Bush's say-so, again given in contradiction of our own intelligence services. Never mind that bin Laden considers Hussein second on the list of Great Satans, only behind us.

The third wave of lies, now that the other two have failed miserably to find any support, is that this was a war of "liberation." This was thought up after the fact, when it became clear that wave 1 and wave 2 wouldn't hold up. Because, of course, Bush could care less about Muslim lives, as shown by the indisciminate tossing of cluster bombs into residential neighborhoods. This wave is the most easily disproven, because up to a week or two before the invasion, Bush was still saying that war could be avoided if Hussein disarmed.

Of course, that was a lie too, because Bush knew full well there was nothing to disarm.

The fourth wave is that anybody who questions Bush is a brain-dead liberal. This is the most hysterical one, of course, meant purely as an intimidating tactic.

Bring on the Articles of Impeachment. If Clinton could be impeached for lying about his personal life, how can Bush escape when he lied about taking the nation to war?
 
If Clinton could be impeached for lying about his personal life,

I believe Clinton was impeached for lying under oath. Are you saying the President of the United States has that right? I certainly hope not.

Please don't place those of us who siphon through political banter in order to make informed voting decisions into a stereotype simply because it fails to meet your political views. I happen to be non-affiliated.

Try to step beyond the politics and look very carefully at who Sadaam Hussein really is. Yes, we put him there which further supports our responsibility to remove him - whatever the reason. This is what I mean by "we get it". Anti-war is a great cause particularly when we enjoy the freedom our founding fathers gave their lives for. I fully support the right to allow the Iraqi's to have theirs.
 
Great, then lets free the world...Lets start with North Korea and then on over to China. Then we can go to work on the entire continent of Africa.

I thought Bush was against Nation Building.

If he would have just came out and said we are going to war to free the Iraqui people from their terrible dictator, at least that would have been honest.

Oh yeah, I forgot it's ok to lie, just as long as your not under oath...
 
golter -

comeon! why does every debate inevitably wind up at the extreme! Reality my friend -

If he would have just came out and said we are going to war to free the Iraqui people from their terrible dictator, at least that would have been honest

Good point but consider how the talking heads would have run with that advanced announcement. I'm not sure if that would be the best strategic move for our country despite the fact that we all feel we have the right to know everything and are inclined to believe the media is an unbiased source of information.
 
So your admitting it was a lie, albiet a lie to protect us from our selves because were too dumb to handle the truth.
 
I'm willing to admit to the basic fundamental fact which happens to be the only truth worthy of acknowledgment -

we are dealing with politics, however you choose to define it.
 
Originally posted by Synonymous
Earth to lying, war-mongering conservatives:

[rest of vitriolic diatribe snipped]
Ok, I know I am somewhat of a newb here, but can I make a motion to take this to the debate board? Please? And I am hoping such a move would keep me from getting emails about a thread I am subscribed to. Because when I see DISboards I get all happy, then I come here to read the kind of hatred posted above, it just kind of ruins it.
 
There's been a lot of freedom to debate and discuss on this board in the past. I think that this is a good thing; state the news or rumor and discuss the merits of said item. However, this thread has gotten very off topic which MIGHT be a bigger problem.

Anyway, I stand by my earlier observation that Michael Moore's controversial behavior may just pull in those who are curious and those who wonder what the fuss is about. He definitely causes discussion as can be seen on this very thread.
 
Good point but consider how the talking heads would have run with that advanced announcement. I'm not sure if that would be the best strategic move for our country despite the fact that we all feel we have the right to know everything and are inclined to believe the media is an unbiased source of information.

So, you support the President of the United States lying to the American public about the reasons for taking us into war? The public doesn't have the right to know that kind of thing, huh?

Strange kind of democracy.
 
I support the war effort. I am very well aware of the game being played right now in front of the cameras and have no desire to fall victim to it. It is politics - that's all. It is the biggest hand the democratics have to play right now and will be spun at nauseum right through the election. If you want to point the finger - do it at all of them please! They've all made a career out of strategizing to win.

Quite frankly it is a ridiculous circus.
 
Originally posted by HB2K
even if Moore is right, his public perception is horrible and people will FLOCK AWAY from his films. It's almost like Disney/Mirimax is making this movie just to tick people off....great business plan.

Er, his last film was a little documentary called 'Bowling For Columbine'. It was, I believe, an Oscar winner, Cannes winner, highest grossing documentary ever.....hmmm, yes people are flocking away in droves.
 




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