Messy accounting question

biochemgirl

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Oct 23, 2016
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I know we have some savvy real estate and finance people on the DISboards and wondering if any of you can pontificate on how Disney keeps all of it's finances and obligations above board when managing a complex property like Wilderness Lodge, Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge. There are multiple entities there sharing land and facilities.

How do we as DVC members know that our maintenance fees are being used mainly to the benefit of our home resort and not say the other DVC resort or Disney hotel on property?
 
That is a very good question. I know they will have to be very careful with this for Tax Questions and Potential Legal issues (ie: DVC Members suing as a class action for bad accounting practices). I am sure they have some controls in place that segment the costs, the MF, income, and reporting - but as we hear about all the time (Enron, Wells Fargo, etc) - those rules can be broken by Sr and sometimes Jr "Castmembers" - with accounting firms - not finding this "errors" until years after. Now there are definitely shared costs like the DVC website, customer service, etc - that have to be shared across all resorts. But you are right about almost everything else - it would be interesting if anyone knows. I wonder if they dedicate accounting resources to each unit - with only responsibilities to that DVC property - regardless I am sure it is very complex.
 
The budgets are audited each year by a third party accounting firm. Granted, it's done by a small and not-so-well-known firm which has always bugged me.

I am sure that there is some extra padding that covers questionable expenses but hopefully anything egregious would be caught in the audit.
 
I know we have some savvy real estate and finance people on the DISboards and wondering if any of you can pontificate on how Disney keeps all of it's finances and obligations above board when managing a complex property like Wilderness Lodge, Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge. There are multiple entities there sharing land and facilities.

How do we as DVC members know that our maintenance fees are being used mainly to the benefit of our home resort and not say the other DVC resort or Disney hotel on property?

It's in good part trust. Members are also supposed to be able to go and view the "books" at celebration. I have never attempted this to know exactly what or how they let you view things.

The audits would not likely review the the basis for the calculations - ie how they decide to allocate the expenses. What they would do is audit that it was put on the books etc.
 

We don't know how they come up with the numbers and I have been given different answers by DVC.

:earsboy: Bill

 
The budgets are audited each year by a third party accounting firm. Granted, it's done by a small and not-so-well-known firm which has always bugged me.

I am sure that there is some extra padding that covers questionable expenses but hopefully anything egregious would be caught in the audit.
Wow that is sketchy. What is the firm? Why wouldn't they use big 4 like pretty much every other legitimate company?
 
How do we as DVC members know that our maintenance fees are being used mainly to the benefit of our home resort and not say the other DVC resort or Disney hotel on property?

If you have trust issues with DVC that can be resolved by going to Celebration and reviewing the books, give that a shot.

Otherwise, you should sell or opt not to buy in. And that's even more true now that DVC is headed down the road of matching the worst policies of other shyster timeshare companies with additional changes to resale contracts and the lock off premium crap and so on...
 
Wow that is sketchy. What is the firm? Why wouldn't they use big 4 like pretty much every other legitimate company?

I can't find it but DVC News had it in their live blog of the annual meeting. It was a small firm based in Tampa if I remember correctly - not even a national firm, let alone Big 4.
 
I don’t worry a lot about this, and I am certainly not privy to any internal discussion, but I take comfort in the fact that it is a somewhat adversarial process within Disney, so in the end, it probably comes out all right.

First there are the costs of the DVC building, the capital reserves for refurbs, the cost of the lobby, the cost of air conditioning, and the like. These are easily assigned to DVC, to be passed on through MF.

Then there are the gray areas. Take the Grand Floridian for example.
Who pays for the incredible landscaping? Who pays for the Christmas Decorations? Who pays for the resort monorail? Who pays for the main lobby, and the Band?

They would typically find some metric that makes sense. For example, for grounds maintenance, it might be divided between the hotel and DVC by number of guests, or square footage. For the Resort Monorail, the thought process might go like this: The Express Monorail is paid for through the sale of park tickets, so maybe an amount equal to the cost of the express monorail ought to be covered by the park tickets for the Resort Monorail. Assuming this leaves a big expense number yet to be covered, you would allocate the remaining Resort Monorail expense to the 3 resorts. Then, at the resort level, you would allocate between DVC and Hotel by picking a metric such as occupancy or square footage.

DVC is incented to argue for a fair allocation so that the MF at a new resort are not too high. Similarly the hotel side is incented to argue for a fair allocation so their pricing does not get out of whack.

Next year, the cost budgets will change, but the metrics and the rules for allocating should stay constant.
 
How adversarial of a process would it really be since DVC isn't paying for it? Owners are and they are locked in. I do tend to think we've seen a greater allocation of costs than there used to be because of some recognition that more could be passed along and the method for doing so justified well enough to satisfy questions of any authority that asked. Or well enough that even if the authority said they disagreed and it needed to change that there wouldn't be any payback required. And do think it's justified enough to not really be argued against. And I also think it passes more along than previous methods used.
 
How adversarial of a process would it really be since DVC isn't paying for it? Owners are and they are locked in. I do tend to think we've seen a greater allocation of costs than there used to be because of some recognition that more could be passed along and the method for doing so justified well enough to satisfy questions of any authority that asked. Or well enough that even if the authority said they disagreed and it needed to change that there wouldn't be any payback required. And do think it's justified enough to not really be argued against. And I also think it passes more along than previous methods used.
You make a good point. Disney is primarily incented to get it right while they are still selling the new resort. After the resort is sold out, the costs could drift, without DVC pushing back too much. It is well worth monitoring this.
 
As some with an accounting background, I want to remind everyone of the common statement. If you ask an accountant what does 1 +1 equal they will respond with "what do you want it to be"...

Any books are subjective at best and we have to measure the results rather than the dollars. Disney is obviously following accounting practices but others have pointed out Enron and other disasters caused by bad practices. Our annual dues could be justified to be used on many things and we unfortunately have to simply look at the refurbs and other activities that show that Disney is investing back into our DVC units.
 
Well, it wasn't too many years ago when a few heads rolled when they screwed up the fees at Aulani.
 
Well, it wasn't too many years ago when a few heads rolled when they screwed up the fees at Aulani.

Funny thing about that is they were too low! Make it easier to sell and then down the road slam the owners.
 
BLT dues seemed too low to me and they were set by the same management team as Aulani.

:earsboy: Bill

 
I know we have some savvy real estate and finance people on the DISboards and wondering if any of you can pontificate on how Disney keeps all of it's finances and obligations above board when managing a complex property like Wilderness Lodge, Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge. There are multiple entities there sharing land and facilities.

How do we as DVC members know that our maintenance fees are being used mainly to the benefit of our home resort and not say the other DVC resort or Disney hotel on property?
The short answer is we don't. As noted, they are audited and as noted, you can go to Celebration with an appt and get some more info but they won'r release everything you'd need considering it proprietary information. Probably the only way to get a true, complete picture would be with lawyers involved and court rulings allowing access to info DVCMC/DVC/Disney won't share otherwise.

BLT dues seemed too low to me and they were set by the same management team as Aulani.

:earsboy: Bill
I can't believe that Aulani was purposeful, just a screwup. If it was purposeful, they would not have agreed to subsidize the contracts.
 















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