Meanest Mom in the World alert

IMHO, people seem to be missing the fact that if the removal of the birthday party was a motivator that actually worked, the child would have curbed her sass.

The party was not a motivator, because if it were, her behaviour would have changed. I don't believe its removal will be either - this is strictly a punishment, and so it needs to be looked at as such.

If the OP is hoping to use it as a teaching tool for the future, I'm afraid those might be unreasonable expectations as her daughter's behaviour would have showed otherwise.

Tiger

I think the point is that the daughter disobeyed and she received the exact consequences that was told to her. That's part of parenting. Kids push boundaries all the time to see if you'll follow through on what you threaten. Will she disobey in the future? Sure...all kids do. She's not perfect. That doesn't mean you don't follow through on consequences. It's not an unreasonable expectation to say "X didn't change so Y is going to happen." If that's considered an unreasonable expectation, would you then tell an adult who committed a crime that they need not fear jail because obviously the threat of it didn't stop the behavior? Of course not. All children, and even adults, at times in their lives learn the hard way. This was obviously a case of that.
 
IMHO, people seem to be missing the fact that if the removal of the birthday party was a motivator that actually worked, the child would have curbed her sass.

The party was not a motivator, because if it were, her behaviour would have changed. I don't believe its removal will be either - this is strictly a punishment, and so it needs to be looked at as such.

If the OP is hoping to use it as a teaching tool for the future, I'm afraid those might be unreasonable expectations as her daughter's behaviour would have showed otherwise.

Tiger

What would she be learning if the party wasn't cancelled after she didn't change her behavior? OP warned her dd about consequences and either dd didn't belive that her mom would actually cancel the party or she didn't care. I tend to think she didn't think that her mom would follow through and she quickly learned that her mom would follow through. Now the dd knows that her actions/attitude have consequences and hopefully that will be helpful in curbing it. I know that once on vacation my dd was acting up and I threatened going back to the hotel if she didn't knock it off. She continued so we left and spent the next few hours sitting in a hotel room. To this day, my dd knows I do not make empty threats and that her actions have consequences.
 
My Dh has the habit of threatening things that are totally unreasonable. When we were planning a vacation one year, he threatened one of the kids with not going with us if their room was not cleaned up! I'm like "Ummmmm, honey where will he go then while we are away for the week?"....

So we try not to have things that we don't want happening or not happening to our children be the consequences. Taking away their video games, TV or outside playtime seems to do the trick. It is really hard to spend a weekend with a child that wants to be outside playing and has been grounded to the house - believe me, my ds11 has tested me to the limit with that one! :sad2:
Do we have the same husband? I struggle with my DH all the time on this very issue. He instantly uses the highest stake punishment he can think of at the time with which to threaten our DD to gain compliance. I think he thinks that our DD will "snap to" and do exactly what he wants her to do because of the severity of the consequences. Sometimes it works, but often it doesn't and I am left supporting a punishment that I think it too severe and enforcing it for him. For instance, instead of taking away the TV for a day (and adding more consequences if she doesn't comply) my DH will go right to grounding her for a week. Then he goes out of town for work on Monday and I have to enforce the grounding for the rest of the week. Thanks, honey :headache:.

The other problem with using too high of a stakes consequence right away is that you have nothing to "go to" if compliance isn't immediate. You are left with a defiant child and nothing left to take away that is any worse than what you already used. Also, if you use the highest stake consequence all the time, then you have nothing left for when you really want to make an impression.

Only time will tell if the OP did the right thing in not pulling her parental punches and going to the highest stake consequence she could think of. Obviously, it did not work to gain compliance immediately. It may work as a deterrent in the future when the DD remembers that her parents too away her 10th birthday party the next time she acts up. Or ... it might backfire on her too. Some kids would react in an opposite when threatened with harsh consequences and are even more defiant.
 
What would she be learning if the party wasn't cancelled after she didn't change her behavior? OP warned her dd about consequences and either dd didn't belive that her mom would actually cancel the party or she didn't care. I tend to think she didn't think that her mom would follow through and she quickly learned that her mom would follow through. Now the dd knows that her actions/attitude have consequences and hopefully that will be helpful in curbing it. I know that once on vacation my dd was acting up and I threatened going back to the hotel if she didn't knock it off. She continued so we left and spent the next few hours sitting in a hotel room. To this day, my dd knows I do not make empty threats and that her actions have consequences.

I think this is a good move.

But doing it with a life event like a birthday or major holiday is a bad, bad idea. You never get your 10th birthday back....she'll remember this all her life alright. And probably angrily, which gets in the way of the message the mom wanted to send.
 

This is how I learned very early on to really think hard about what to threaten my kids with. I wanted them to learn but didn't want to find myself forced to take away something I would regret later.

One thing I have done when I did find myself in such a situation was to figure a way for the child to earn the privledge back. In that way I have followed through and I have dealt out the punishment but I don't feel like I have taken away something that won't come around again and I have given them the chance to earn the thing they want. I always hated to think that my kid would always remember "the year mom took away. . . " (not meaning to lay on the guilt here, just saying how I felt) And actually I have found that earning back the lost privledge works for smaller things too, like when dd loses her phone instead of just getting it back in 5 days she has to spend that 5 days earning it back by showing me the desired behavior instead of that sassy pre-teen mouth.
 
You are definitely not the meanest mom in the world. I have a 19 year old son and thankfully he is starting to act human again. I swear the terrible teens are so much worse than the terrible twos. My DB has a 14 year old son who is giving them major fits, kicked out of school and on probation from boy scouts (this boy could be valdictorian if he halfway tried, this close to his eagle scout, etc.) He thinks he is so much smarter than everyone else. Guess what boy? You're not. Our major battle with our son has been getting a job. He sat out this semester from school for various reasons number one of which he has applied to a program that he has had all the classes he can take for it and is in a holding pattern. He had a job but quit it for a better one out of state. Fine with us. Thought it would make him grow up. Well the job played out, he didn't get paid all that was owed, etc. Now there are few jobs. Granted he does go out several days a week and applies everywhere. We think we have a good lead on a job so hopefully that battle will end in the next couple of weeks. In the meantime, that old money tree was cut down. He can only get money from us if it is for gas to go look for a job (we live out in the country so a 20 minute drive to town) or if he does some major job like pressure washing the house today. Do we ever get them raised?
 
I think this is a good move.

But doing it with a life event like a birthday or major holiday is a bad, bad idea. You never get your 10th birthday back....she'll remember this all her life alright. And probably angrily, which gets in the way of the message the mom wanted to send.

I see what you are saying but she is still having her birthday. Family is coming over, there will be cake and some presents. She is not having a friend party whcih is a privelage.
 
What would she be learning if the party wasn't cancelled after she didn't change her behavior? OP warned her dd about consequences and either dd didn't belive that her mom would actually cancel the party or she didn't care.

Oh, I understand totally about following through, and agree with it 100%. You have no choice once you put it out there. I think the comments (at least from me) are from those who disagree with putting it out there in the first place. That it's a pretty heavy punishment for sass.
I know it's not the end of the world if she doesn't have a b-day party. I grew up in a large family so no one had b-day parties with friends and presents and stuff, and we all survived just fine.
It's the expectation of having a b-day party with friends and then having that taken away. Sure, she'll still have the party with family, but during that party she'll probably be thinking about what she doesn't have on that day, and it's a shame that she's going to probably feel sad on her birthday, when an entirely different punishment would have been just as effective.
 
I think this is a good move.

But doing it with a life event like a birthday or major holiday is a bad, bad idea. You never get your 10th birthday back....she'll remember this all her life alright. And probably angrily, which gets in the way of the message the mom wanted to send.

You never get anything in your past back. It's not as if the kid isn't having some sort of birthday celebration. She still is. Just not the grandiose one she had been expecting. This is not going to scar her for life, especially considering that her parents are still choosing to have some type of celebration for her. It's showing her that she made a choice to keep acting a certain way and her parents made a choice to give her a consequence for her actions.
 
OP here...wow! it is so intersting to read the diverse opinions. Of course each parent has to make the best decision s/he thinks. With DD, it is hard to find something that really means something to her when it is taken away. No computer? fine, grounded? no biggie. She is super imaginative and is quite happy playing her own games and thinking up stories that she doesn't mind no technology or friends for a while. There were only two things we could really "hit" her with, a party with classmates and participation in a performing arts program that she loves.

It was a tough choice, especially since she got the part she wanted (Veruca in Willy Wonka, type casting??? :laughing: ). As we hadn't really made any firm plans, no invites or such had gone out, the party was "it" and honestly, I think it would have broken her heart to take her out of the musical.

In general, she is a good kid, excells in school, polite and kind outside of home but I just couldn't let the disrepect to me continue. We gave her multiple chances to clean up her act but she continued and so deals with the consequences.

It is funny about the people who said maybe let her have a party in the summer, we have talked about that so I am guessing we will do something special with friends.

Thanks for all the thoughtful comments, it is always interesting to read varying opinions.
 
I never once received a birthday present from my parents. Never really had a party either. We did sometimes (certainly not every year) have cake with family. I survived just fine and am confident that I am not the center of anyone's universe. I think if she doesn't get any presents that's just fine. The point here is to teach her a lesson.

It's cool that you are okay with it, it doesn't work for me though. Birthdays are the one day a year that people who love you show you that you are worth celebrating, that you are worth putting some effort in to feel special. :)

I'm curious, do you have kids? If yes, do you plan on treating birthdays the same way for them? I am honestly just wondering, no judgment implied. :goodvibes
 
It's cool that you are okay with it, it doesn't work for me though. Birthdays are the one day a year that people who love you show you that you are worth celebrating, that you are worth putting some effort in to feel special. :)

I'm curious, do you have kids? If yes, do you plan on treating birthdays the same way for them? I am honestly just wondering, no judgment implied. :goodvibes
She's not losing her birthday, she's losing the privilege of having TWO parties, specifically the one with her friends. She still gets a celebration with people who love her. Why do people keep missing that part?
 
She's not losing her birthday, she's losing the privilege of having TWO parties, specifically the one with her friends. She still gets a celebration with people who love her. Why do people keep missing that part?

I was specifically addressing the post that I quoted regarding never getting birthday presents and birthdays not being special posted by another poster ;)

How bad do you think my reading comprehension is? :rotfl: Just kidding ;)
 
I was specifically addressing the post that I quoted regarding never getting birthday presents and birthdays not being special posted by another poster ;)

How bad do you think my reading comprehension is? :rotfl: Just kidding ;)
Sorry...:headache: not as bad as mine apparently...:lmao:

Just every third post seems to think the kid's not getting any kind of party, it's frustrating.
 
OP -> good for following through. You are not mean. My DD is 8.5 yrs and tells me I'm mean constantly. I LOVE the crown idea...I'm going to steal that.
 
I think the point is that the daughter disobeyed and she received the exact consequences that was told to her. That's part of parenting. Kids push boundaries all the time to see if you'll follow through on what you threaten. Will she disobey in the future? Sure...all kids do. She's not perfect. That doesn't mean you don't follow through on consequences. It's not an unreasonable expectation to say "X didn't change so Y is going to happen." If that's considered an unreasonable expectation, would you then tell an adult who committed a crime that they need not fear jail because obviously the threat of it didn't stop the behavior? Of course not. All children, and even adults, at times in their lives learn the hard way. This was obviously a case of that.

Of course, I understand what she did - I'm a Spec Ed teacher, and I deal with unmotivated kids all day. For me there are 2 issues - sure she is still getting a birthday party with family, but I don't think that taking away her friend party is that big of a deal to her. Only time will tell...if it was that big of a deal, she would have changed her behaviour. It's really not that simple when dealing with pre-teens and teens. We don't know what kind of parenting is happening in the home either. What type of discipline is practised in the home on a regular basis? Why didn't the daughter curb her behaviour when 'threatened' to lose her party? Is it because there is inconsistent discipline, or, because she is struggling with internal motivation? Consequences must be consistent, swift and reasonable, but they only work if you have a child who is easily motivated. If you have a child who struggles with motivation, I can assure you that pretty much nothing will motivate them to stop their behaviour. Not saying this is the case with this child - perhaps she's just testing the waters, which most kids do, as it's a normal and important part of child development.

What would she be learning if the party wasn't cancelled after she didn't change her behavior? OP warned her dd about consequences and either dd didn't belive that her mom would actually cancel the party or she didn't care. I tend to think she didn't think that her mom would follow through and she quickly learned that her mom would follow through. Now the dd knows that her actions/attitude have consequences and hopefully that will be helpful in curbing it. I know that once on vacation my dd was acting up and I threatened going back to the hotel if she didn't knock it off. She continued so we left and spent the next few hours sitting in a hotel room. To this day, my dd knows I do not make empty threats and that her actions have consequences.

What did the parents learn about their child's behaviour - she didn't stop, regardless of being threatened with removal of a party, so only time will tell if indeed this consequence worked or not. I think it's too big of a consequence for sassy talk - what kind of consequence will happen if she does something major? When you start at the top, it's really hard to gain trust, and set your kids up for success. Your hotel example is minor compared to a birthday party, IMHO. Removal of a child who is misbehaving is necessary in certain cases, but this is different. Of course, having a friend party is a privilege, but it's a pretty major consequence for that activity, IMHO. I honestly believe that if the friend party meant that much to the daughter, and she truly believed that her parents meant business, she would have curbed her behaviour. Like I said, we don't know anything about past experiences, or what kind of discipline is used in the home. There are so many variables that go into this type of situation. It worries me though that the OP in her followup was actually thinking of taking her out of the musical - yikes! There are so many kids who hate school, so why take away a school event? I have parents who take away sports and such for their teens who drink and drive, steal, etc., but for being sassy, that is very harsh, IMHO.

I think it's great that the OP didn't cancel her birthday altogether. I'd be interested to hear how her daughter has been behaving since the removal of her party?

It's hard to find people's currency - in this case, it sounds like the OP believes it was the party, but I'm really not sure about that? I don't claim to have all of the answers, but I have seen kids in which nothing motivates them (some of them didn't even respond to meds), and before everyone assumes they are all spec ed kids, not all of them are. Many kids, and adults, struggle with internal motivation, and so in my experience, the answer isn't as simple as taking stuff away or time outs.

I wish the OP, and everyone else, an abundance of patience when dealing with tweens and teens! Tiger
 
You never get anything in your past back. It's not as if the kid isn't having some sort of birthday celebration. She still is. Just not the grandiose one she had been expecting. This is not going to scar her for life, especially considering that her parents are still choosing to have some type of celebration for her. It's showing her that she made a choice to keep acting a certain way and her parents made a choice to give her a consequence for her actions.

I applaud you:worship::worship::worship::worship:
When DS was in 8th grade, he wanted to go on the 8th grade trip to Washington DC. I told him he could go IF he got all C's on his report card (kid was not dumb, just didn't really like school). I paid the down payment and low and behold, 1st report comes and he has several (not one but several ) D's.
I quietly called the school and canceled his trip. I didn't say anything to him at the time, just waited.
A few weeks later his teacher told him that I had canceled his trip. He came home VERY angry (gee, surprised there) and wanted to know "WHY" I canceled his trip. I told him that he got D's on his report and he said "well, I can bring them up!!!" I told him that we had agreed that he would get C's, NOT D's.
I think you should give kids boundaries. If they don't keep up their end of the bargain, they should lose what they want.

Good Job op!
 
OP you did the right thing!! Kids need to know that bad choices have consequences!
 
As a mom of a DD11, I applaud you!

I have been in your shoes and would do the same thing. At 10+, they know not only about how consequences SHOULD work, they know all too well if we don't follow through then next time they can disregard what we say.

The hurt is why it's called tough love. We're doing the best we can to rear them to be great adults. It's part of the job as a parent.

Happy Birthday to your DD!
 
Of course, I understand what she did - I'm a Spec Ed teacher, and I deal with unmotivated kids all day. For me there are 2 issues - sure she is still getting a birthday party with family, but I don't think that taking away her friend party is that big of a deal to her. Only time will tell...if it was that big of a deal, she would have changed her behaviour. It's really not that simple when dealing with pre-teens and teens. We don't know what kind of parenting is happening in the home either. What type of discipline is practised in the home on a regular basis? Why didn't the daughter curb her behaviour when 'threatened' to lose her party? Is it because there is inconsistent discipline, or, because she is struggling with internal motivation? Consequences must be consistent, swift and reasonable, but they only work if you have a child who is easily motivated. If you have a child who struggles with motivation, I can assure you that pretty much nothing will motivate them to stop their behaviour. Not saying this is the case with this child - perhaps she's just testing the waters, which most kids do, as it's a normal and important part of child development.
Why didn't the daughter curb her behavior when threatened to lose her party? Possibly because that's common for kids to behave. As I've already said, kids push boundaries to see if what you threaten will actually be done. In this case, it was. It doesn't have to be about inconsistent discipline or lack of motivation, etc. Kids are not innocent little creatures who don't know how to push the boundaries. They test and continue testing. They test from very young ages. The OP did well in following through in what she told her daughter would be the consequence. What would have been wrong would be threatening a consequence and then giving in...THAT shows the child she can get away with pretty much anything because mom and/or dad is going to let her have her way. And even if the child lacks motivation, I'm really not sure how that would effect anything. Lack of motivation doesn't exempt them from the consequences. A lack of motivation doesn't suddenly mean they've lost all knowledge of right and wrong. Perhaps you'd give different consequences to your own child...though I'm not sure if you have any...you've only mentioned being a teacher, which is a lot different than being a parent. Not trying to be snarky there, I just haven't seen anything on it. Consequences dealt are not the same in a classroom as they would be at home. You may not understand why the OP chose what she did, but obviously the OP knows her daughter well enough to understand that this consequence was the best choice.
 


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