MDE/FP+ Poll Results

[MrInfinity]

As yes your usual fall back position, with, again, zero factual evidence to support this. "A sliver of the population" way to down play the experiences of people who just don't agree with you. Listening to the pod cast the other day it sounded like more than just a sliver, looking around these boards its more than a sliver, going on just about any article posted about FP+ and reading the comments its more than a sliver, heck even poking around Facebook its a whole lot MORE than a sliver. But ... you know, spin spin spin.

Shaden,
I don't beat around the bush. I'll openly call FP- what it was. It was a scantily used system that benefitted someone who took the time to learn it extensively-- at the expense of those who did not.

That is the common thread among dislikers of FP+ right? Under FP-, we could pull tickets all day long, never waiting to ride. Now, we cannot.

You know as well as I do, that it only worked that way, because most people did not use it. That is WHY there was so much available. If everyone used it, we'd have... oh yea... FP+. There would be nothing available by midday.

I can point out why I liked FP-. Because it got me, specifically, on rides faster than most guests.

So you cannot w a straight face come out here and talk about how you're all upset and worried about the "newbie user" not understanding or using FP+ and losing interest in Disney World.

Which system do you prefer. Really.

* A system in which all guests get to ride equal.
* A system in which you get to ride headliners more than most.

Be honest.

The more people that don't understand FP+, the more like FP- it is. The "problem" with that is FP+ is so much easier to understand and use that everyone is doing it. When everyone is super, no one is super.

So don't call me out for asserting that the guests who "lost" the most by the transition from FP- to FP+ were the "sliver" of guests (which included most people on the Dis). It is. That is why the sentiment out here was so negative. We were the ones who got the benefit out of FP-, and that system was taken away.

But in time, many of the Dis'ers have found that FP+ can indeed work for them in practice, despite originally thinking it would be a disaster.

 

[jade1]

My guess is the majority of the 39% just want a combination of more selections, no tiers and multiple parks-and they will then fall into the positive side.

So get to work and start building attractions, that's what they do for a living shouldn't be that hard.

Heck the 10% would probably flip as well.

And the 51% would like it even better.

 

[flicx]

Let's refresh our memories of the polls talking about fast pass legacy and plus taken on disboards a few short months ago. The final results on here were as follows in 2 different polls. Prefer legacy 120 (74.07%) FP plus 42 (25.93%). Separate poll slightly earlier Legacy 147 (62.29%) FP plus 78 (33.05%) no opinion (4.66%). Seems to me these polls/surveys are showing completely different results to this one from the podcast. By the standards shown amoung these disboard results the FP plus is a BUST! Mega money spent with the majority liking the old system. It is a small sampling.

 

[JimmyV]

Shaden,
I don't beat around the bush. I'll openly call FP- what it was. It was a scantily used system that benefitted someone who took the time to learn it extensively-- at the expense of those who did not.

That is the common thread among dislikers of FP+ right? Under FP-, we could pull tickets all day long, never waiting to ride. Now, we cannot.

You know as well as I do, that it only worked that way, because most people did not use it. That is WHY there was so much available. If everyone used it, we'd have... oh yea... FP+. There would be nothing available by midday.

Let's not lose sight of one important difference. If FP- had been utilized to the degree of FP+, then, yes, indeed, availability would have dried up early in the day. You are 100% correct about that. And then what would have happened. People would have had to retreat to the many other rides that did not use FP- and stand in one, single, SB queue. Now, people retreat to rides such as PoTC and HM that did not use FP- and go wait in those lines....getting cut off by the hoards of people with FPs. The increase in the number of rides using FP+ is the real difference maker here. And it was done simply because Disney recognized that more people would use FP+ and that they would dislike a system that ran out of passes 59 days in advance. So they started awarding FP+ to Nemo and Figment. Optically, it looked like there was great availability, when in reality, Disney simply gave FPs to people for rides that didn't require them, causing SB people to wait in longer lines. So again, here's another example of a "if they implement a change, I could like it". Reduce the number of attractions that accept FP+ and maybe you win me over. But that isn't going to happen.

 

[Brian Noble]

it can hardly be said that the battle is over.

Hope springs eternal. But, if I were a betting man, I'd bet that the shift will continue inexorably until only the pure of heart remain opposed.

Which system do you prefer. Really.

* A system in which all guests get to ride equal.
* A system in which you get to ride headliners more than most.

Be honest.

I'm not Shaden, but I'll answer. I prefer Option B, by a landslide. I don't really care about your vacation, or anyone else's. I care about mine.

But, I don't get to choose the system in place. Disney gets to choose that system. They have chosen Option A---and the reasons why they've chosen Option A seem obvious to me.

I'm on record as being a FP super-user who thinks the new system is perfectly fine, but that's in part because I've changed my expectations (willingly) to fit the new model. I no longer expect to ride all three mountains multiple times in the same day unless the park is well and truly dead. But, I've discovered that the "lesser" attractions that I never had time for in the past are surprisingly worth doing. That shift in attitude started when they began enforcing return times. As a side bonus, the current system of pre-planning has seemed to make my in-park days a little less hectic, because I'm not constantly plotting my FP pulling strategy as the day unfolds.

 

[JimmyV]

My guess is the majority of the 39% just want a combination of more selections, no tiers and multiple parks-and they will then fall into the positive side.

That a great point. Those do seem to be common complaints, and if remedied, would likely win over many, many people. (Add in 4th FP+ by app instead of kiosk). But if Disney announces tomorrow that none of those things are going to happen?......Might we then be in 51%-49% world? You've pointed out the danger of assuming that the 39% will be won over. We just don't know. And my guess is, (bringing this back to square one), that numerous negative posts were made here by people whose complaints are exactly what you suggest and who are now counted among the 39%. They didn't come from only the 10%.

 

[WillAustin]

My guess is the majority of the 39% just want a combination of more selections, no tiers and multiple parks-and they will then fall into the positive side.

So get to work and start building attractions, that's what they do for a living shouldn't be that hard.

Heck the 10% would probably flip as well.

And the 51% would like it even better.

Yes. It was mentioned earlier that they are putting a system in place with inadequate resources to fulfill the ideal scenario in the system concept and design. Hopefully it eventually works that well.

 

[Brian Noble]

But if Disney announces tomorrow that none of those things are going to happen?

I think it is possible that some of them might.

A third Soarin' theater and another set of TSMM tracks (both rumored to be in the works) would help significantly (see: Dumbo). If either (or, heaven forbid, both) of the "big" additions to Studios happen, that could help even more. And, as much as DISers like to pooh-pooh the Pandoraverse, that might take some pressure off as well while it is the new hotness.

Disney is---and has been---in a bit of a building spree to expand the capacity of all four parks. Until that capacity is met with corresponding attendance increases, that's all to the good.

 

[MrInfinity]

Optically, it looked like there was great availability, when in reality, Disney simply gave FPs to people for rides that didn't require them, causing SB people to wait in longer lines. So again, here's another example of a "if they implement a change, I could like it". Reduce the number of attractions that accept FP+ and maybe you win me over.

Why do you care about Nemo? I happened to want to use a FP+ on it. Lucky me. I went on Nemo in 2012. When it was not on FP. I waited a half-hour for it! I stood there in the switchbacks. So 2014 came along, it was one of the first I pulled a FP+ to because I knew my family of little kids would like it. HUGE value to me... we rode in 5 min via FP+.

Why does this bother you. If you want to ride it in 5 min via FP+ too, feel free! Don't wait standby, you'll have no problem getting a FP+ to Nemo most days any time of day.

So just because YOU don't want to get a FastPass to Nemo, why do you think Disney World should change their system to where I can't when I appreciate that I can? It helped me on my trip. Did you ride it? Did you actually wait standby for it? How long did you actually wait, in 2012 or earlier, and then again FP+ times?

FP+ has actually enhanced my usage of the Seas Pavilion. Unless it has significantly detracted from yours, I see no reason to change it. I like that I can pull a ticket to this ride, and will do again in December. I'll post my trip plan as we get closer and you're welcome to tell me it's a waste of a FP.

 

[jade1]

You are 100% correct about that. And then what would have happened. People would have had to retreat to the many other rides that did not use FP- and stand in one, single, SB queue. Now, people retreat to rides such as PoTC and HM that did not use FP- and go wait in those lines....getting cut off by the hoards of people with FPs.

Let's not lose sight of one important difference.

With the retreat to B rides AND QTY 3 Headliners reserved now.

 

[JimmyV]

Why do you care about Nemo? I happened to want to use a FP+ on it. Lucky me. I went on Nemo in 2012. When it was not on FP. I waited a half-hour for it! I stood there in the switchbacks. So 2014 came along, it was one of the first I pulled a FP+ to because I knew my family of little kids would like it. HUGE value to me... we rode in 5 min via FP+.

Why does this bother you. If you want to ride it in 5 min via FP+ too, feel free! Don't wait standby, you'll have no problem getting a FP+ to Nemo most days any time of day.

So just because YOU don't want to get a FastPass to Nemo, why do you think Disney World should change their system to where I can't when I appreciate that I can? It helped me on my trip. Did you ride it? Did you actually wait standby for it? How long did you actually wait, in 2012 or earlier, and then again FP+ times?

FP+ has actually enhanced my usage of the Seas Pavilion. Unless it has significantly detracted from yours, I see no reason to change it. I like that I can pull a ticket to this ride, and will do again in December. I'll post my trip plan as we get closer and you're welcome to tell me it's a waste of a FP.

Had I ever waited more than 5 minutes to get on the Nemo-mover in the FP- days, I might share your concerns. But I didn't. So I don't. I now routinely wait longer in SB lines for attractions that have FP+ but did not have FP-. I don't think my experiences are unique. And why not get a FP+ for Nemo? Simple math. It is not a highest and best use if I am also trying to bypass lines for other, more popular attractions. Honestly, we love the Living Seas Pavilion. But we walk in through the sliding glass door exit to get straight to the exhibits as we are not the least bit interested in riding the Nemo-mover.

 

[wisblue]

My guess is the majority of the 39% just want a combination of more selections, no tiers and multiple parks-and they will then fall into the positive side.

So get to work and start building attractions, that's what they do for a living shouldn't be that hard.

Heck the 10% would probably flip as well.

And the 51% would like it even better.

This is a good point that I haven't seen addressed in this thread yet

A more thorough analysis of guest responses (which I am sure Disney does) would separate the complaints that are based on capacity and availability (which can be addressed by adding capacity) from those based on dislike for preplanning and scheduling (which to me fall into a completely different category).

The people who hate FP+ because of capacity and availability factors (such as tiering, limit of 3, poor selection after first 3, etc.)would presumably be just as unhappy if Disney addressed what it perceived as an undesirable distribution of FPs by putting greater restrictions on the availability of paper FPs, such as limiting FPs to one per attraction per day and no more than 3 or 4 total. The reaction to the strict enforcement of FP return times is a pretty good indication of that.

I don't know what a realistic percentage is, but any change to the FP system would result in some guests who like it and some who don't. I'm sure Disney knew that these changes were not going to be well received by the small percentage of guests who were the biggest "winners" under the paper FP system. But, they really had to create some angst in that group to produce the more even distribution of FPs that they wanted.

The complaints about preplanning are a little tougher to deal with, but again, differences of opinion are inevitable. Some people like knowing before they leave home that they have certain things that they want to do reserved. For example, when we went to Boston a few years ago, I liked having tickets for a Red Sox game in my pocket before we left, even though that locked us in to going to a game on a specific night even if the weather turned out to be bad (which, fortunately, it didn't). Other people would be happier to just show up at the park and see what they could get from a scalper, and wait until just before game time to try to get a lower price.

Given these, and many other factors, that go into someone's reaction to FP+, I don't know if it's realistic to expect 80-90% customer satisfaction immediately.

 

[jade1]

This is a good point that I haven't seen addressed in this thread yet

A more thorough analysis of guest responses (which I am sure Disney does) would separate the complaints that are based on capacity and availability (which can be addressed by adding capacity) from those based on dislike for preplanning and scheduling (which to me fall into a completely different category).

The people who hate FP+ because of capacity and availability factors (such as tiering, limit of 3, poor selection after first 3, etc.)would presumably be just as unhappy if Disney addressed what it perceived as an undesirable distribution of FPs by putting greater restrictions on the availability of paper FPs, such as limiting FPs to one per attraction per day and no more than 3 or 4 total. The reaction to the strict enforcement of FP return times is a pretty good indication of that.

I don't know what a realistic percentage is, but any change to the FP system would result in some guests who like it and some who don't. I'm sure Disney knew that these changes were not going to be well received by the small percentage of guests who were the biggest "winners" under the paper FP system. But, they really had to create some angst in that group to produce the more even distribution of FPs that they wanted.

The complaints about preplanning are a little tougher to deal with, but again, differences of opinion are inevitable. Some people like knowing before they leave home that they have certain things that they want to do reserved. For example, when we went to Boston a few years ago, I liked having tickets for a Red Sox game in my pocket before we left, even though that locked us in to going to a game on a specific night even if the weather turned out to be bad (which, fortunately, it didn't). Other people would be happier to just show up at the park and see what they could get from a scalper, and wait until just before game time to try to get a lower price.

Given these, and many other factors, that go into someone's reaction to FP+, I don't know if it's realistic to expect 80-90% customer satisfaction immediately.

Yep, and keep in mind even "preplanning" can be addressed to some degree with expansion as well.

 

[MrInfinity]

Had I ever waited more than 5 minutes to get on the Nemo-mover in the FP- days, I might share your concerns.

Well, we did. So, I FP+'d it this trip and it was great.

And why not get a FP+ for Nemo? Simple math. It is not a highest and best use if I am also trying to bypass lines for other, more popular attractions.

But for some people, it IS a priority. It's not for you. It was for us and my 3-year old who can really only ride Nemo and Figment

Honestly, we love the Living Seas Pavilion. But we walk in through the sliding glass door exit to get straight to the exhibits as we are not the least bit interested in riding the Nemo-mover.

Then that's even better... you should appreciate that Nemo is Fast-Passable because people like me with little kids take our passes to it, instead of other things. That's random other guests pulling FP+'s to things you're not even interested in. That is perfect for you.

This day we used our FP+ tier-2's on Nemo and Figment. We rode both in 5 min, whereas in 2012 we waited about 30 min for Nemo and 10 min for Figment. In neither case did we take a FP+ to SE, MS, or anything you might want. You should be happy these are FP'able. People like me are taking passes to things that are not even in the pool of what you want.

 

[Brian Noble]

T those based on dislike for preplanning and scheduling (which to me fall into a completely different category).

Even if some people don't like it, it is in Disney's best interest to encourage it. From the presentation that Rasulo gave to a conference earlier this month:

No, I think we're at the front end of that. We definitely are seeing revenue lifts. I've been saying for a long time all of the communications about MyMagic+ have really emphasized that the biggest benefit we believe to our company and our company's financial performance will be that people who pre-plan spend more time with us on their trip to Orlando. So for the last 30 years, people have come to Orlando basically for an eight-day vacation, on average. People overseas are visitors who come for two weeks --- but on average, the core guest comes for eight days.

The question is how many of those eight days are they going to spend at Walt Disney World and how many of those eight days are they going to spend elsewhere among other attractions that are in the Orlando area? We know that when people plan at home before they arrive they spend more time with us. So enabling them with this planning tool called MyMagic+ has --- we knew that if people used that tool --- and many, many people are using that tool, I mean today over 50% of our guests are using the FastPass+, which is an inherent part of MyMagic+ --- we know that they will spend more time with us.

So that's what you are beginning to see in the financials, but we are just at the front end of that. Remember the product probably has been in full execution among all guests for only a year and I think that you'll continue to see the returns from that grow.

Full transcript here:
http://cdn.media.ir.thewaltdisneycompany.com/2015/events/jar-citi-2015-0106.pdf

 

[MrInfinity]

Even if some people don't like it, it is in Disney's best interest to encourage it. From the presentation that Rasulo gave to a conference earlier this month:



Full transcript here:
http://cdn.media.ir.thewaltdisneycompany.com/2015/events/jar-citi-2015-0106.pdf

Nice quote. Thank you for that... Interesting to see them come right out and say their "core guest" does around an 8-day stay.

 

[Brian Noble]

These investor presentations are always gold. I keep this one (which indirectly explains the motivation behind Magic Your Way, Disney Dining Plan, and Magical Express) in my bookmark list too.

http://www.laughingplace.com/news-id507040.asp

Basically, nothing has changed in the last decade-plus. MM+ is just the next step along the path.

Edited to add: I was surprised by the 8-day stay quote. I had assumed that WDW was seeing a shortening of vacation lengths as the overall US market is taking shorter vacations on average. Interesting to see that that isn't what happens---probably because Orlando is an air-travel market, and so that skews high to amortize the travel costs over a longer vacation.

 

[wisblue]

Had I ever waited more than 5 minutes to get on the Nemo-mover in the FP- days, I might share your concerns. But I didn't. So I don't. I now routinely wait longer in SB lines for attractions that have FP+ but did not have FP-. I don't think my experiences are unique. And why not get a FP+ for Nemo? Simple math. It is not a highest and best use if I am also trying to bypass lines for other, more popular attractions. Honestly, we love the Living Seas Pavilion. But we walk in through the sliding glass door exit to get straight to the exhibits as we are not the least bit interested in riding the Nemo-mover.

Along these lines, I wonder what would the result have been if Disney had put in FP+, but only had FPs for attractions that had them before. Using Epcot as the example, that would have meant FPs for TT, Soarin, MS, Living With the Land, and Maelstrom. Because of the low total amount of FP capacity, there probably would have to be a limit of 1 FP per guest, or maybe 2 with TT and Soarin being tiered.

If they did this, there would be the same outcry there is now. The people who were used to getting FPs for both TT and Soarin (and sometimes more than 1 FP for one or both of them) would be upset because other guests are now getting some the coveted FPs that they used to get in a disproportionate amount. But, wouldn't that also create longer standby lines at the other attractions because people who got those multiple FPs are now redirected to other attractions, and the guests who didn't get a FP for either of them before now have one and can spend the 60-90 minutes they otherwise spent in a standby line at TT or Soarin doing other things?

By adding more FP+ attractions, guests can now do two other attractions (like SE, Nemo, or Figment) with a FP too. So, out of 4 attractions, they can have FPs for 3 of them and a slightly longer standby line for the 4th one. But, the net result is less standing in line because the 20 minute wait for Figment is still shorter than the 60-90 minute wait for Test Track.

I realize that this is a lot of theorizing and speculation, but I'm not convinced that the longer standby lines at some attractions would have been avoided just by keeping them out of the FP+ pool. Those longer lines may just be more an inevitable result of a more even distribution of FPs for the most popular attractions.

 

[g8torphan]

We definitely are seeing revenue lifts. I've been saying for a long time all of the communications about MyMagic+ have really emphasized that the biggest benefit we believe to our company and our company's financial performance will be that people who pre-plan spend more time with us on their trip to Orlando.

See, it isnt about "liking FP+", its about making money, which MDE and FP+ help increase.
Period.
Thats it.

Nobody cares that Johnny from Ohio only got to ride TSMM once when 3 years ago Johnny rode it three times.
In fact, I'd bet its more profitable to have as many unique riders on a ride as possible (more opportunity to sell ride pics and souvineers).

So, the antiFP+ crowd thinks Disney should decrease profits so they can bogart the "good stuff" (which is constantly changing...2 years ago it was all about ETwB....in 2more years Anna &Elsa wont be in as high of a demand).
Not a sound business practice.

The uber-user was not a friend of the business and the company found a way to resolve that. Sorry.


Btw - I've never read a trip report stating a trip wasnt as fun due to only getting to ride Splash once. Its the entire experience Disney is selling....not just the rides.


Carry on with the circular logic arguement

 

[MrInfinity]

These investor presentations are always gold. I keep this one (which indirectly explains the motivation behind Magic Your Way, Disney Dining Plan, and Magical Express) in my bookmark list too.

http://www.laughingplace.com/news-id507040.asp

Basically, nothing has changed in the last decade-plus. MM+ is just the next step along the path.

Edited to add: I was surprised by the 8-day stay quote. I had assumed that WDW was seeing a shortening of vacation lengths as the overall US market is taking shorter vacations on average. Interesting to see that that isn't what happens---probably because Orlando is an air-travel market, and so that skews high to amortize the travel costs over a longer vacation.

Yeah, also there's families... a family taking the kids out of school, or a worker taking a week off of work... 8 days just makes sense. 2 weekends and the week in between.

I like the laughingplace one too... besides what you've mentioned, it lends weight to the "Why 60-days?" question.

And it is simple. You have to pay off your trip at 45 days. They want you to have your days pegged, and cool stuff planned for your whole stay, thus, your payment date hits, and you don't rethink... "well, maybe we'll cut it down to 6 days since xxx park is offering free days just get us there". By locking in Fast Passes, people have days planned, then their 45 hits, and they are now not sacrificing just a day at a park somewhere vague, but they've put thought into it, talked to their family, and mentally got psyched up for their days. They would be giving up specifically "their FastPass to Soarin" or whatever. That's why we will not see the FP window close in to under 45 days, and so it sits at 60 as sort of the next logical rounding point above 45.