Mazda 3 in the snow, do we need snow tires?

[Uncleromulus]

I've found after owning AWD and 4WD vehicles (Subaru and Hyundai Santa Fe) that the 4 wheels can be of some help in deeper snow.

On ice, it's all 4 wheels spinning instead of just 2

So in most cases, a front wheel drive car of reasonable weight and with decent tires should suffice for most winter road conditions. Especially if you can wait to drive until after the snow is over and some effort has been made to plow.

To add that I now have 2 Hyundai Sonatas with Traction Control and they do quite well in most of the snow we have around here. Especially useful is the way I can manually downshift the transmission when going down a hill in the snow--VERY useful!!!

 

[I loveStitchnippyjon]

I have lived in one of the snowiest areas of the country my whole life. My credo is: if it snows, you need to have snow tires.
Around here, we refer to people who drive year-round on "all-weather" tires as IDIOTS.

 

[tvguy]

These driving in snow threads always amuse me, some almost get political.

So, being a sunny California guy, I have zero experience driving in snow, however my mom is from Canada and my Uncles/Cousins all agree, good snow tires, rear wheel drive and 150 pounds of bagged sand in the trunk, and driving slow are the key to safe snow driving. Again, as a sunny California guy, I am amazed that none own a 4 wheel drive.

Of course, my mom talks about going into town in heavy snow from the farm in my Grandfathers Model T, and a Model T has to be a pretty bad vehicle for snow.

 

[mrodgers]

On ice, it's all 4 wheels spinning instead of just 2

On ice, it is 4 wheels getting the power split up between rather than 2 (actually with the way differentials and transaxles work, it is 1 wheel drive vs. 2 wheel drive.)

A 4 wheel drive will get you moving far easier no matter what the conditions are. You have twice the contact area of power and that power is cut down in half to each one. Where 4 wheel drive doesn't do a lick of good is while moving, it matters not whether you have 1, 2, 4, or 100 wheel drive if your tires have no traction on the ground surface and are sliding. That is solely a factor of the tire, not whether the wheel is powered or not.

If you really want the best, then get rid of the garbage automatic transmission and get a manual transmission that is mechanically attached to the rotating engine. Then we can start the argument about worthless anti-lock brakes and how to properly brake and the best way and best equipment to have in order to properly brake in snow or on ice.

We had a little Saturn SL2 up until this past summer. That car had traction control and with the traction control we could get through pretty much everything.

You could get through anything with the traction control, but you don't tell what tires were on the car? I also have traction control and I couldn't get out of my perfectly flat driveway that I just ran the snowblower on with my car, all because of the tires. I guarantee that with the tires that were on my car when I bought it, your Saturn wouldn't have moved an inch either.

 

[golfgal]

On ice, it is 4 wheels getting the power split up between rather than 2 (actually with the way differentials and transaxles work, it is 1 wheel drive vs. 2 wheel drive.)

A 4 wheel drive will get you moving far easier no matter what the conditions are. You have twice the contact area of power and that power is cut down in half to each one. Where 4 wheel drive doesn't do a lick of good is while moving, it matters not whether you have 1, 2, 4, or 100 wheel drive if your tires have no traction on the ground surface and are sliding. That is solely a factor of the tire, not whether the wheel is powered or not.

If you really want the best, then get rid of the garbage automatic transmission and get a manual transmission that is mechanically attached to the rotating engine. Then we can start the argument about worthless anti-lock brakes and how to properly brake and the best way and best equipment to have in order to properly brake in snow or on ice.


You could get through anything with the traction control, but you don't tell what tires were on the car? I also have traction control and I couldn't get out of my perfectly flat driveway that I just ran the snowblower on with my car, all because of the tires. I guarantee that with the tires that were on my car when I bought it, your Saturn wouldn't have moved an inch either.

And like I said in my other posts-the tires matter more...

 

[goofyernmost]

You can usually get away with it, considering the area you live in, if you have, at the very least, all season tires. Personally, I haven't purchased snow tires since the 1980's and lived in Vermont full time. All season on a front wheel drive vehicle, provided they aren't worn smooth, do a very good job. I have never been stuck anyplace that required help to get out. There is no good tire for ice, not even studded. If there's ice...don't go out.

 

[bluesaturn]

Thank you all for your input. I have to admit I'm still confused as can be, but I'll have to read through your responses again more carefully.

I'm living in a college town in the mountains. I don't have to really climb any mountains on a daily basis, but I do have to get up, over, and back down a very steep long hill to get anywhere. They don't really plow the roads here and they don't put down decent salt. I swear the town is run by monkeys all winter long. The snow doesn't get really high (there aren't several feet falling at a time), but the problem is it just sits on the roads becoming a slushy mess.

I've been doing as much research as I can about how to drive in the snow. But honestly I've never had real life experience because where I'm from it doesn't snow much, and when it does everything pretty much shuts down until the roads are clear.

 

[disneymarie]

The real question, will your son NEED to be out driving in a heavy snow many days of the year? All season tires are just fine for most people. Keep in mind that the snow on the roads doesn't stay there very long and unless he needs to drive on unplowed roads, up steep hills, etc. he won't need snow tires.

Thanks for filling me on the experience with the Mazda...should have checked with DISers about winter handling, and tires before buying, lol. The car reminded me of the 89 Corolla which was great in snow when it was running.

Well at age 28, 29 next month and working security, staying home is not an option when snow is a threat. Especially as we live in the higher elevations of NE PA, sometimes it is a month before we see pavement on our local road. The last storm left a foot at home, and 16" at his job site. The business closed and called in advance of the height of the Saturday storm.

His previous car and mine era Camry 1999 and KIA 2002 were beast with front wheel drive. The Camry had all seasons on it, the KIA had snow tires on the front and removed in the Spring.

This new car is a 2010 Mazda 3, a bit smaller then the Optima. The owner of the Mazda 3 I met recently, that could not get out his driveway, had a 2006. I am wondering if it will be like the Camry with the tires he has on, or will it need to plan on having two snows on the front like the KIA.

Sounds like we have to see if the tires on this model have the low profile, and if they do get snows on the front. I sold the KIA and bought a 2009 VW Passet. The first winter I have it and just put on Michellan all seasons so I hope that is okay if I get caught in a storm. The Camry is still the work horse and dh car.

I have 40 yrs on winter traveling too. A lot of it in a patrol car. Even with rear wheel drive and two bags of sand in it, I could not get out of the Station for Emergency's. Very frustrating. Coworker tried to assist on snow/ice road and ended up in the guardrail. Now that is embarrassing to need a tow truck yourself.
I remember using my Datsun All wheel drive station wagon to get out and around. The tires were small but good, the all wheel great in the piling up snow.
So its not the size that counts, for a big ol SUV, the smaller are fine with the right works. THe SUV's trucks may go like heck in the snow, but they don't stop in emergency's. If they go too fast, they are going to slid into ditches.

I got called out for a 37 car pile up on I-80 this weekend, and many of the cars off the road and in trouble were SUV. The initial chain started with a Jack knifed tractor trailer and Jeep Cherokee.

 

[disneymarie]

Thank you all for your input. I have to admit I'm still confused as can be, but I'll have to read through your responses again more carefully.

I'm living in a college town in the mountains. I don't have to really climb any mountains on a daily basis, but I do have to get up, over, and back down a very steep long hill to get anywhere. They don't really plow the roads here and they don't put down decent salt. I swear the town is run by monkeys all winter long. The snow doesn't get really high (there aren't several feet falling at a time), but the problem is it just sits on the roads becoming a slushy mess.

I've been doing as much research as I can about how to drive in the snow. But honestly I've never had real life experience because where I'm from it doesn't snow much, and when it does everything pretty much shuts down until the roads are clear.

Gee, you must live in our town. The big issue is cost of paying plow driver and putting down anti skid, or salt when the sun will come out tomorrow...maybe. Or it will pack done and give you surface to drive on. As I am telling my son, you may need to put on a set of snow tires each winter. If it is icy, cancel plans, and if you are caught in bad weather, watch for the plow to go through!

 

[FireDancer]

I've driven my Mazda 3 (5-door if that matters) through 4 Cleveland winters without snow tires and have had absolutely no problems. I do a lot of driving in the snow too.

The original factory tires were fine and the right now I have Kumho Solus KH-16 tires on there (205/50R17) which are also fine.

 

[Squirlz]

If you really want the best, then get rid of the garbage automatic transmission and get a manual transmission that is mechanically attached to the rotating engine.

That's how I roll

 

[Shutterbug]

All season on a front wheel drive vehicle, provided they aren't worn smooth, do a very good job.

As I mentioned before, depends on the tire. Not all all season tires are the same. The brand new all season tires that they put on the mazda 3 were HORRENDOUS in the snow. It didnt matter if it was a alot or a little amount of snow. They were even a major brand tire too(mine were Toyos) The 17" inch Goodyear RSA's that came on some cars were even worse in the snow. I know many people, the first thing they did was get rid of the tires. I just had a friend the other day (who also has a 3) ask me what snow tires to get because she was tired of spending the winters slipping and sliding on her all seasons.

 

[Shutterbug]

That's how I roll

Yes I also have a manual transmission. It definitely helps.

 

[goofyernmost]

As I mentioned before, depends on the tire. Not all all season tires are the same. The brand new all season tires that they put on the mazda 3 were HORRENDOUS in the snow. It didnt matter if it was a alot or a little amount of snow. They were even a major brand tire too(mine were Toyos) The 17" inch Goodyear RSA's that came on some cars were even worse in the snow. I know many people, the first thing they did was get rid of the tires. I just had a friend the other day (who also has a 3) ask me what snow tires to get because she was tired of spending the winters slipping and sliding on her all seasons.

Yes I also have a manual transmission. It definitely helps.

Those are valid points. I usually look carefully at the tire tread when buying tires to get them as close to the open tread seen on snow tires as possible. The tread design should grove across the tire not parallel with the tire rotation.

That said, I think it is important to note, and I am not necessarily referring to the people you know, but I have found that most of the folks that spend the winters "slipping and sliding" will do so no matter what tires they are using. Many, many people just cannot get the hang of driving on slippery surfaces and think that if they have 4 wheel drive and snow tires they can just resume the speeds and maneuvering that they did on dry roads. Those are the ones that you see in the ditches and highway medians. There is an art to driving in winter conditions and every technique starts with slowing down.

 

[Squirlz]

More proof of the power of snow tires. We got home from Jamaica in the middle of the night and found 10 inches of snow in the driveway. I wasn't about to shovel so....

 

[Shutterbug]

More proof of the power of snow tires. We got home from Jamaica in the middle of the night and found 10 inches of snow in the driveway. I wasn't about to shovel so....

Thats awesome

 

[manning]

You can get stuck in snow with any tire both AWD/2WD front or back drive. Snow tires are designed to aggressivley bite into snow. I have a friend with an AWD SUV. He started last winter with all season tires and switched to snow tires. He said there was a big difference.

Not only are the threads different, the rubber composition is too.

 

[golfgal]

Of course snow tires are better, the question is do you NEED them? Is it really worth having snow tires for one or two days/year you MIGHT need them.

 

[mrodgers]

Of course snow tires are better, the question is do you NEED them? Is it really worth having snow tires for one or two days/year you MIGHT need them.

In north east PA such as the original poster, absolutely. Take a look at Squirlz's pictures. That is just a dusting, as Squirlz should understand as well being in Michigan. If you live where there is snow, there is not snow for a mere on or two days per year. That is southern snow such as what happened to Virginia, Maryland, and the Carolinas last year. In Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, Indiana, you can have accumulations of 8 inches or greater for days and days. 2 years ago, we spent almost 2 months never seeing the road surface here in north western PA. I'm not talking the little secondary roads, this is the main traveled roads as well as the interstate (I-80 that was mentioned, horrible during the winter.)

Rubber compound was also mentioned. Tire compounds are formulated to work in a temperature range. In order for an all-season to be what it's name implies, the compound must be formulated to work in somewhat cold temps along with the more common warm temperatures. Snow tires are formulated to work in the cold and colder. Even on dry roads, with the cold, winter tires work better. The cold formulated compound grips better in the cold environment to the dry pavement than compounds formulated for broader environments.

That is again a factor of the environment you are in. In the Carolinas, you may see snow 2 days, but you probably won't see below 0° F. It can run below 0° F for days and even weeks and off and on below 20° F during the long stretch of January and February. Winter tires are made for this environment, all-seasons are not.

While everyone was freakin out last year down south about their 5 inches of snow shutting down everything and the police stating they will be arresting anyone out on the roads (a coworker from up here in PA was in Charlotte at the time and was telling me about it...) I was looking out my window watching yet another 12 or so inch snowstorm thinking, glad we aren't having that problem, "hey honey, I'll be back in about 3 hours, just need to run to the store real quick since it's barely snowing..."