Marvel coming to WDW???!!!!

[rteetz]

The 2013 attendance numbers was a total of 49 million...

I can't find a firm number for 2014... But I remember hearing 52...

Those are the "trackable" numbers...

I think your apples and oranges with that 88 number. That sounds like the total for all 3 complexes in town.

Wdw would collapse under its own weight before it gets to 88 gated entries as it currently sits...defections due to crowd uncomfort would set in well before that.

TEA hasn't released 2014 numbers yet. No one except Disney of course knows exact numbers but I would agree that I don't think we are near 88 yet.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It would be mathematically impossible to get to 88 million...

I mean 0.000000000123% chance.

You would be akin about 50% + increases in the 3 "smaller parks"...and a huge bump at magic kingdom.

That would roughly equate to 365 days of heavy/capacity crowds.

I'm gonna say 88 isn't the right benchmark number.

 

[Trjack]

No way

 

[George4]

he 2013 attendance numbers was a total of 49 million...

I can't find a firm number for 2014... But I remember hearing 52...

You are correct. I have mixed up the two numbers as I was talking.

So, my point isn't nearly as strong, but it still shows a 20% jump in attendance at WDW parks, with nowhere near a 20% jump in capacity.

Sorry for the mixed numbers.

 

[George4]

It would be mathematically impossible to get to 88 million...

I mean 0.000000000123% chance.

You would be akin about 50% + increases in the 3 "smaller parks"...and a huge bump at magic kingdom.

I already admitted to pulling the total Orlando visitors number instead of just WDW visitor, which I do apologize for. It was an error on my part. That being, said, I don't know that I would be quite so harsh against the eventual possibility. MK already is doing around 19 million visitors per year, with all four parks increasing by .5-1 million (2.5%) visitors each year for . While admittedly wrong in this timeframe (for which there is no excuse on my part), there is potential to get to those numbers in about 20 years. The article I was reading said in 10 years (I mis-read the parks that were included), but the math of 2.5% increase per year (including recessions) says that in 22 years, WDW will reach 88 million visitors.

Yes, there is a practical limit in hotels, park space, airport capacity, road capacity, etc., but that doesn't mean that the park is any more comfortable to be in right now, or in the forseable future due to a lack of capacity in the parks for the number of people that are already there.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It's a matter of space/logistics...
3 of the 4 parks are "big"...but much of the space is gobbled up by logistics/non guest areas.

Animal kingdom is the "biggest themepark on earth"...but that's so misleading because half is inhabited by crocodiles and rhinos...

If you want useable space...it's EPCOT. The most they'd had is about 12-13...if I recall.
You're taking about 20.

Where do you put them? On what days? Where do you get the staff?

Like it or not - And Disney won't say it...they are limited by a host of factors - notably infrastructure, airlines, labor, and enough days off to allow travel - which are shrinking.

It's more than just acreage.

Do they have "room for that many"...yes and then some. But they can't operate well enough at that level to support it.

 

[ChrisFL]

It's a matter of space/logistics...
3 of the 4 parks are "big"...but much of the space is gobbled up by logistics/non guest areas.

Animal kingdom is the "biggest themepark on earth"...but that's so misleading because half is inhabited by crocodiles and rhinos...

If you want useable space...it's EPCOT. The most they'd had is about 12-13...if I recall.
You're taking about 20.

Where do you put them? On what days? Where do you get the staff?

Like it or not - And Disney won't say it...they are limited by a host of factors - notably infrastructure, airlines, labor, and enough days off to allow travel - which are shrinking.

It's more than just acreage.

Do they have "room for that many"...yes and then some. But they can't operate well enough at that level to support it.

Also, most of the new attractions Disney is building are not increasing capacity because they're closing existing attractions for them.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Also, most of the new attractions Disney is building are not increasing capacity because they're closing existing attractions for them.

Now you know better... They could care less if we have "stuff" to ride...that's just the curtains in the window.

They care if we are in the right mood to BUY.

Part of that is ride and shows... But there's a balance and they have had a 15 year philosophy in Florida to find the "minimum" balance... Kinda like paying $68 on your $23,463.11 visa bill...

In the past...the philosophy was "development" and "expansion"...where as now it's "profit development"

That ain't building rides at $200,000,000 a pop...Not included in a ticket price with a mere 5% annual bump.

That's " diversifying the portfolio " with exclusive, once in a lifetime magical experience...like the Halloween party you can only yet 47 times each year...
Or the tacky frozen soft drink event that they have now rolled out 3 times in 11 months.

Or the food and wine...which now has taken over flower and garden and holidays around the world.

The expansion period had to slow down/ end ...

I give no grief for that.

But the "rudder hard right" approach that has strangled development when... For the first time they have an equal/major player in the market...is thinly veiled.

8 years from announcement to openjng... EPCOT was built about 4. From dust and swamp.

 

[Planogirl]

88 million! How would you be able to eat anywhere or even shop with that kind of mob? I'm afraid that Yogi Berra's wonderful quote about no one going because it's too crowded might just apply if that were to happen.

 

[George4]

Do they have "room for that many"...yes and then some. But they can't operate well enough at that level to support it.

I am not advocating for the growth, just pointing out that the numbers are building in that direction.

I agree with LockedOut (that doesn't happen a lot), in that there are numerous reasons why this can't really be accomplished. However, at what point are the parks too crowded? What is that magic number of people? When everything is a 60-minute wait, including the snack vendors? or worse?

I think you are being polite by calling it "profit development". They are clearly rolling in profit right now (more $3 billion per year) from the parks and resorts (not just WDW), but they don't appear on the outside to really be reinvesting in the future. If the number of visitors continues to increase, they have to find places to put them. While there is plenty of acreage available, the don't appear to be motivated to make use of the acreage inside of their existing parks.

 

[Planogirl]

Maybe they can issue FP+ just to enter MK. Ugh.

 

[ChrisFL]

I much prefer lower crowds paying more money than larger crowds paying less money, although people seem to get mad when I say that.

 

[Planogirl]

I much prefer lower crowds paying more money than larger crowds paying less money, although people seem to get mad when I say that.

I agree with you even though I dislike the idea of excluding people too. But of course Disney is a business and can appeal to any income level they want to.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I much prefer lower crowds paying more money than larger crowds paying less money, although people seem to get mad when I say that.

I tend to agree...

But at somepoint SOME of these prices have to be supported by more included entertainment...even the "cheap" $95 days.

If you read the sentinel article...it's shaping up as a "slight" discount, 10-15% increase, 25% increase for the different crowd levels.

That's pretty unprecedented...and the next year the normal
Percentage increases will resume...

Just like The near 100% incesase in dvc prices in 10 years...I can't fathom how these ticket costs can continued to be swallowed without any backlash.

They really need like a "1 year boycott" for the sake of all the consumers to bring everything into perspective. Even the "we think it's a great deal" and "it's worth it to us" crowd has to
Know there day will come.

I went from not caring at all to being excited to take "time off" in less than five years... With small kids who are just getting to start to do anything ( oldest just got to 48")...

I gladly paid for DVC and a wedding in wdw and went to bed so thrilled with the price I paid...

If I've gotten to the point where I am now...they have a major longterm business problem as an I undercurrent.

The whole strategy for TWDC
Seems to be predicated on the belief that they only need to worry 3 years out and the stock market will never crash... That the money is "real"

Oh boy...we're all gonna lose our Graceland.

 

[Josh Hendy]

If I've gotten to the point where I am now...they have a major longterm business problem as an I undercurrent.

Yeah there has to be a pretty strong undercurrent ... check for little ripples on the surface, that's the sign of a riptide developing.

I've been watching things pretty closely but even I was surprised when I put 2 and 2 together the other day. Some people have defended WDW by saying, OK but look they're building Avatar Land, that's major progress. Mebbe so but even after A-Land has started construction, there were 3 big rides announced by the other guys which are all going to be completed before anyone is riding "Soarin' 2 3D". Look for King Kong, Mako coaster at SW, and an unnamed new coaster at Busch ... coming in 2016. That's on top of Diagon Alley and Springfield USA being announced and delivered while AK was still pregnant with its blue aliens.

Disney looks not just flat-footed, but almost defiantly flat-footed. As if they really expect silent, head-nodding approval from everyone (if not beaming admiration) for looking like that music video where the singer is calming singing while the world zips around him at quadruple speed. But you can literally see the business majors beavering away at pricing stunts ... right out in the spotlight. Now Time magazine is covering pricing shenanigans? And Bloomberg had a semi-hatchet job the other day highlighting MK one-day prices as a % increase since 1971. Those are definitely ripples.

I'm not too worried though. If there is no undercurrent and it's just that I'm cranky then that's fine ... the (Disney) world will go on. If there really is an undercurrent then the fix is easy ... they just have to announce some really great rides and build them in 18 months or whatever it takes serious people to build these things.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

The prices need not be supported by anything but happy guests. If there are enough happy guests, and there certainly seems to be, then the prices are supported. Other parks desperately need their new rides. Universal needs Kong because the wonderful HP newness is going to wear off. There are no negative ripples. Prices increase and so is attendance. What does that tell you? Disney's problem is spreading out the millions and planning for growth that is going to come regardless. In the meantime, NFL, Pandora, Star Wars, and something Pixar will be plenty. Dealing them out slowly is actually part of the plan. Disney actually can't have too much growth too soon. Too much growth would be worse on the guest experience than no new rides. AK is going to increase with Pandora and nighttime activities, then Star Wars, no matter how big it is, is going to shoot DHS through the roof. It is all kind of strange and not popular on here, but true. Also, Disney must find ways to use technology to use workers more efficiently. As others have pointed out, Disney has maxed the pool of workers in Orlando. They can't hire very many more people. There will no 5th gate for this reason, I think.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The prices need not be supported by anything but happy guests. If there are enough happy guests, and there certainly seems to be, then the prices are supported. Other parks desperately need their new rides. Universal needs Kong because the wonderful HP newness is going to wear off. There are no negative ripples. Prices increase and so is attendance. What does that tell you? Disney's problem is spreading out the millions and planning for growth that is going to come regardless. In the meantime, NFL, Pandora, Star Wars, and something Pixar will be plenty. Dealing them out slowly is actually part of the plan. Disney actually can't have too much growth too soon. Too much growth would be worse on the guest experience than no new rides. AK is going to increase with Pandora and nighttime activities, then Star Wars, no matter how big it is, is going to shoot DHS through the roof. It is all kind of strange and not popular on here, but true. Also, Disney must find ways to use technology to use workers more efficiently. As others have pointed out, Disney has maxed the pool of workers in Orlando. They can't hire very many more people. There will no 5th gate for this reason, I think.

I know we've been over this...but honestly it would be alot easier to agree with your pro-Disney/wdw management stance if you only referred to things that have, are, or will be built.

They can't receive credit for nothing but fan rumors or vague innuendo by the suits.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Disney looks not just flat-footed, but almost defiantly flat-footed. As if they really expect silent, head-nodding approval from everyone (if not beaming admiration) for looking like that music video where the singer is calming singing while the world zips around him at quadruple speed.

The problem is...

They are getting just that at this point.

 

[larry_poppins]

Seriously, how much higher can these prices go? T premium Disneyland AP is now $780. For money like that I can find a coach ticket to Tokyo Disneyland where I will be treated like a Guest!

 

[rteetz]

Seriously, how much higher can these prices go? T premium Disneyland AP is now $780. For money like that I can find a coach ticket to Tokyo Disneyland where I will be treated like a Guest!

And where they are investing 100s of millions in the parks.