Marvel coming to WDW???!!!!

[DDLand]

You say this over and over again...but building rides based on IP they own in parks that they have to pay to operate is not the path to success as it was from 1955 to about 2000...

That Disney is gone. Even In 2000 on the Inside... It had basically had been decided that wdw cost too much to run and addition would really only exasperate that...

I left and I hoped it would shift... But I can only say that not only was the premise run with...it seems to have been expanded.

I understand a temporary point in which they could argue they'd built enough to sustain growth through a period. That makes sense. What I can't grasp is them saying we'll never build anything again due to high costs. There's no way to simply travel off of momentum like that permanently. They have to start building at some point to either boost attendance or justify continued ticket price increases. It's that or they should get out of he business and let better players take over. To say they're out of the attraction building game seems silly. For a time they haven't built as aggressively, but that does not mean that they won't ramp up if they see significant growth opportunities.

 

[OldsDr]

I'd like to know too but have no idea...

It could be $1 and it's a deal for Disney...because its a "free" $1...

And... It allows merchandise.
I keep saying this and nobody believes me... Because is intentionally vague in SEC filings...

But ALL the walkaway profits from WDW is in merchandise...or the lions share of like 80-90%.

It's made in mass In sweatshops (boy... Disney should build some parks in those countries to keep the free trade deals flowing )...transported tariff free (the legacy of nafta)... And sold at 20 times the production cost...

That is your profit. Why are there 200 shops in Walt Disney world selling the same things? Cause all the money is in the room rates at pop century?

So with the marvel contract...even a share of the gift receipts is pure, free money...

And there they don't have to pay the sales tax or the $8 an hour for someone to sell it.

That deal will only be broken by Comcast...and why would they do it? Disney advertises their park every 3 months when a new movie comes out...

I think a lot of people agree with this statement, I for one am included. I started to come to understand the merchandising side of this when they took the Penny Arcade out of Main St. and replaced it with the ESPN store. (I don’t know if they called it that but it happened at the same time they purchased ESPN and it was all sports related attire) I was just wondering if anyone knew if the actual direct dollar amount for the contract. The more I think about it, it may be no annual mandate and be just a percentage of the merchandising sales.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I understand a temporary point in which they could argue they'd built enough to sustain growth through a period. That makes sense. What I can't grasp is them saying we'll never build anything again due to high costs. There's no way to simply travel off of momentum like that permanently. They have to start building at some point to either boost attendance or justify continued ticket price increases. It's that or they should get out of he business and let better players take over. To say they're out of the attraction building game seems silly. For a time they haven't built as aggressively, but that does not mean that they won't ramp up if they see significant growth opportunities.

They're coasting for sure. And they're calculating that they can coast indefinitely, with only the tiniest flapping of wings necessary at the longest of intervals in order to stay on top. They'll get business intelligence in the form of slightly flat or slightly declining vacation bookings long before they need to react by building (or simply announcing or leaking) some impressive new attractions.

On the one hand this has the risk that by the time they notice the downtick in vacation bookings their name and reputation will have become a joke among the public. They would be in trouble if the oldness and lameness of many of their rides got them assigned permanently to the WallyWorld and "Time Masheen" end of the pantheon of amusement parks that exists in the public imagination.

On the other hand, even if a whiff of ridiculousness gets associated with WDW, they know that they can overpower it simply by banking on the latest princess movie (or the oldest princess movie) with a quick little kiddie ride.

The Mine Train and the Arendelle boat ride represent the tiny flapping of wings necessary to maintain growth. The Hub and the doubled rides are about fitting more sardines into the can. The vague statements and deceptive leaks about Star Wars Land, Cars Land, Pixar Land, Marvel Land, etc. are like little puffs of hot air emitted in between tiny flaps ... in order to maintain cruising altitude. Altitude means DVC sales, souvenir sales and enough hotel bookings and park pass sales to keep the money rolling in at a high ROI.

Avatar Land is a bit of an outlier ... but that was more of a panic-stricken spasm than a deliberate flapping. It may in any case may involve someone else's money and thus may be a complete "win" at a park that is only full from about 11am - 3pm but whose animals need care 24x7.

 

[carmelhp]

As slow as Disney moves I'm glad that Marvel is in Universal right now. Universal is doing some amazing things and doing them quickly. If nothing else, Spiderman is great and looks so nice after its recent refurbishment. I'd hate to just hear vague promises for years to come.

Only time will tell what the talks are really about but most sources I've seen claim that Universal will likely expand Marvel Island.

I have to say, I like to have the Marvel characters walking around the Universal Parks, WDW never allows unhandled character interactions.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

They're coasting for sure...

You just can't please some people.

If Disney did what some of y'all want, constantly add new "E Ticket" rides, where would they put them? They could take out Carousel of Progress - a LAME attraction if there ever was - but do you think there would be outcry over that? This board would melt down.

I don't think for a minute that Disney is "coasting." They're spending hundreds of millions of dollars - just at WDW. Between New Fantasyland, and Avatar, and Disney Springs, I'd hate to know the $$$ figure being invested. ...and that's not to mention the money spent in Asia, Anaheim and Paris recently.

And, I firmly believe that DHS will get a makeover treatment soon. I'll bet they spend more money there than at AK, DS, or NFL...

 

[Reddog1134]

If Disney did what some of y'all want, constantly add new "E Ticket" rides, where would they put them?

I think MK is built out. After the new Skipper's Cantina opens, I think the only "semi-used" space would be Diamond Horseshoe and Tomorrowland Terrace.

Epcot has the upstairs of Imagination, the old Wonders of Life Pavilion, Odyssey and several WS plots. (and now Innoventions West)

DHS has many open spots due to recent closures that are rumored to be earmarked for big expansions. Plus there's rumors they could change some of the access roads to expand the park boundaries.

AK is making better use of the Camp Minnie-Mickey area. There's also the northern area of the park (where the train goes through) that I've heard rumors about.

Now, I'm not saying you can put an e-ticket attraction in all these spots, but you could but something of (entertainment) value.

 

[rteetz]

You just can't please some people.

If Disney did what some of y'all want, constantly add new "E Ticket" rides, where would they put them? They could take out Carousel of Progress - a LAME attraction if there ever was - but do you think there would be outcry over that? This board would melt down.

I don't think for a minute that Disney is "coasting." They're spending hundreds of millions of dollars - just at WDW. Between New Fantasyland, and Avatar, and Disney Springs, I'd hate to know the $$$ figure being invested. ...and that's not to mention the money spent in Asia, Anaheim and Paris recently.

And, I firmly believe that DHS will get a makeover treatment soon. I'll bet they spend more money there than at AK, DS, or NFL...

A lot of us don't want new e tickets constantly it's just the time since they have gotten new e tickets has been so long. Also if they did c and d tickets as well many would be happy. MK is fine right now epcot, AK, and DHS, all have limited attractions and could use expansion. WDW has the blessing of size where they can expand. CoP may be lame to you but to many it's a classic. It is one attraction that was a Walt creation for the worlds fair in 1964. At parks like Epcot and DHS they are coasting.

 

[atricks]

Marvel and Universal had meetings last year to clarify some of the gray areas around the contract and keep the back and forth to a minimum. Marvel isn't leaving Islands of Adventure, and it'll get upgraded quite a bit (especially after Kong opens). It'll modernize the look of IOA (including the cinematic universe) and less emphasis on XMen and Fantastic Four, and more toward the Avengers.

Guardians of the Galaxy will be free to use at Disney. Dr doom gets either outright replaced or upgraded. Hulk will get upgraded quite a bit (theming and coaster wise itself, new trains and some work done to the back half of the track at the very least) New major avengers ride, and maybe one other small new ride.

Universal really holds all the cards in the contract, and by a FTC stipulation of the Disney/Marvel merger Disney itself can't see or look at the plans, only certain individuals at the Marvel division can. A lawyer friend of mine put it best, the Marvel contract is a great example of how NOT to create a contract, based on the fact it's crazy favorable to Universal and not so much Marvel. Universal got Marvel for bargain basement prices (and royalty payments and no expiration as long as Universal keeps it maintained well).

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Marvel and Universal had meetings last year to clarify some of the gray areas around the contract and keep the back and forth to a minimum. Marvel isn't leaving Islands of Adventure, and it'll get upgraded quite a bit (especially after Kong opens). It'll modernize the look of IOA (including the cinematic universe) and less emphasis on XMen and Fantastic Four, and more toward the Avengers.

Guardians of the Galaxy will be free to use at Disney. Dr doom gets either outright replaced or upgraded. Hulk will get upgraded quite a bit (theming and coaster wise itself, new trains and some work done to the back half of the track at the very least) New major avengers ride, and maybe one other small new ride.

Universal really holds all the cards in the contract, and by a FTC stipulation of the Disney/Marvel merger Disney itself can't see or look at the plans, only certain individuals at the Marvel division can. A lawyer friend of mine put it best, the Marvel contract is a great example of how NOT to create a contract, based on the fact it's crazy favorable to Universal and not so much Marvel. Universal got Marvel for bargain basement prices (and royalty payments and no expiration as long as Universal keeps it maintained well).

You seem to be a little enamoured with the idea that "Disney doesn't interfere with marvel"...because that's what they put out there.

Every penny spent by anything in Disney's portfolio...or decision...is made by 1 guy...

And that's about stock and stock alone...

That's the legacy of Eisner after wells/katzenberg

 

[atricks]

You seem to be a little enamoured with the idea that "Disney doesn't interfere with marvel"...because that's what they put out there.

Every penny spent by anything in Disney's portfolio...or decision...is made by 1 guy...

And that's about stock and stock alone...

That's the legacy of Eisner after wells/katzenberg

Eh, all I said was that as part of the FTC agreement allowing the Disney/Marvel merger as that corporate Disney wouldn't be allowed to look at plans or bookkeeping at Universal. If they are actually holding to that or not is another story.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Eh, all I said was that as part of the FTC agreement allowing the Disney/Marvel merger as that corporate Disney wouldn't be allowed to look at plans or bookkeeping at Universal. If they are actually holding to that or not is another story.

Ok...I just wanted to make sure we didnt think this wasnt ultimately a Disney/universal thing...

And that's why nothing will change...Disney is more than content to collect money for nothing...

If it were marvel...they'd probably like to have their characters back and put them in a brand new park where rides are built for fun AND money.

And that ain't gonna happen

 

[Planogirl]

Disappointing news where IOA is concerned. I really like the X-Men and the Dr Doom character is probably the best walk around Marvel character they have. However, Uni's vision has been awfully good so far so we'll see what develops.

As for space at WDW to build things, what about all of that empty land? Can't one or more of the parks expand beyond their current borders?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I understand a temporary point in which they could argue they'd built enough to sustain growth through a period. That makes sense. What I can't grasp is them saying we'll never build anything again due to high costs. There's no way to simply travel off of momentum like that permanently. They have to start building at some point to either boost attendance or justify continued ticket price increases. It's that or they should get out of he business and let better players take over. To say they're out of the attraction building game seems silly. For a time they haven't built as aggressively, but that does not mean that they won't ramp up if they see significant growth opportunities.

I thin you're referring to the 20th century - latter half - model of travel.

If you build it...they will come.

I think those days are gone...because the target audience - the American middle class - is more or less shot.

There are alarming few new individuals being inserted into the middle class theses days...while
Many are leaving due to age or decline in the labor structure...

The gap is widening and the middle is like "no mans land"

So now you see increased focus on international - specifically "developing economies", hedging with longterm initiatives like DVC, increases in pricing to try to "elevate"
The complex above the "middle", and way more focus on maximizing take from infrequent travelers than ever before. Titanic shift...as most of those efforts used to be used to develop frequent travel to bank on...

That's near 180 degrees.

If you change how you package and sell the place... It seems it is possible to take all the attention off of what your parks have...

And that...is exactly what seems to be going on...

Much to everyone's detriment.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Disappointing news where IOA is concerned. I really like the X-Men and the Dr Doom character is probably the best walk around Marvel character they have. However, Uni's vision has been awfully good so far so we'll see what develops.

As for space at WDW to build things, what about all of that empty land? Can't one or more of the parks expand beyond their current borders?

All of them can expand either within or beyond their current borders...
The benefit of owning all the land in every direction and being your own government body...

EPCOT and animal kingdom are "unfinished"... As they were built with expansion space all over the place.

 

[Planogirl]

All of them can expand either within or beyond their current borders...
The benefit of owning all the land in every direction and being your own government body...

EPCOT and animal kingdom are "unfinished"... As they were built with expansion space all over the place.

Exactly. This is why the talk of where to put rides and the parks being built out puzzles me.

 

[rteetz]

Disappointing news where IOA is concerned. I really like the X-Men and the Dr Doom character is probably the best walk around Marvel character they have. However, Uni's vision has been awfully good so far so we'll see what develops.

As for space at WDW to build things, what about all of that empty land? Can't one or more of the parks expand beyond their current borders?

All of the parks could be expanded if they wanted too.

 

[rteetz]

Exactly. This is why the talk of where to put rides and the parks being built out puzzles me.

Roughly one third of Disneys owned land is developed while another third is left that can be developed and the last third is not supposed to be developed.

 

[beer dave]

I think MK is built out. After the new Skipper's Cantina opens, I think the only "semi-used" space would be Diamond Horseshoe and Tomorrowland Terrace.

Epcot has the upstairs of Imagination, the old Wonders of Life Pavilion, Odyssey and several WS plots. (and now Innoventions West)

DHS has many open spots due to recent closures that are rumored to be earmarked for big expansions. Plus there's rumors they could change some of the access roads to expand the park boundaries.

AK is making better use of the Camp Minnie-Mickey area. There's also the northern area of the park (where the train goes through) that I've heard rumors about.

Now, I'm not saying you can put an e-ticket attraction in all these spots, but you could but something of (entertainment) value.

And the down stairs---- Isn't it funny to enter the imagination pavilion after the ride and find nothing? I guess they ran out of imagination. Kind of like if the living seas were dry and dead..... the red tide pavilion.....

 

[DDLand]

I thin you're referring to the 20th century - latter half - model of travel.

If you build it...they will come.

I think those days are gone...because the target audience - the American middle class - is more or less shot.

There are alarming few new individuals being inserted into the middle class theses days...while
Many are leaving due to age or decline in the labor structure...

The gap is widening and the middle is like "no mans land"

So now you see increased focus on international - specifically "developing economies", hedging with longterm initiatives like DVC, increases in pricing to try to "elevate"
The complex above the "middle", and way more focus on maximizing take from infrequent travelers than ever before. Titanic shift...as most of those efforts used to be used to develop frequent travel to bank on...

That's near 180 degrees.

If you change how you package and sell the place... It seems it is possible to take all the attention off of what your parks have...

And that...is exactly what seems to be going on...

Much to everyone's detriment.

While all above may be true, I still believe that there is a market that has untapped potential. It's simply getting that extra 8,000,000 clicks from the MK and getting them to do the same at DHS. You don't have to capture new guests if you're simply keeping people on property longer. I think this can be done by creating a more compelling product at other parks. Simply leaving as is money off the table.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

While all above may be true, I still believe that there is a market that has untapped potential. It's simply getting that extra 8,000,000 clicks from the MK and getting them to do the same at DHS. You don't have to capture new guests if you're simply keeping people on property longer. I think this can be done by creating a more compelling product at other parks. Simply leaving as is money off the table.

It's not "leaving money on the table"...because you have to bring a big bag of money to the table to do it. It's more like a game of high stakes poker that public companies doesn't like.

Now...you notice - everything they do in Tokyo is fantastic...because they aren't betting with their money.

That shows what CAN be done.

But as we've been over more times than you can count - the customers are giving no reason.

But you can't discount what many of us...notable wallrock...has said about studios.

The infrastructure work necessary would be a MASSIVE bill. That money may never get recouped. They're not gonna double attendance and sales there.
It's really more of a "new park" construction type bill than a "retrofit" because the park is much smaller and the facilities were not designed to support a "full park" like The other 3.

Look at how much work is going Into animal kingdom and that is gonna result in less than "sweeping" changes. That's gonna total close to a B...don't doubt that.

Can't assume that studios is a "sure win" if they invest the GDP of a small country Into it.