Mandalorian Season 3

[PolymerSkywalker]

At the end of the day the customers determine what is successful. A hotel based on Kylo and Rey was built and a Billion dollars were spent on it. It has been shut down after just 18 months of operation. If the Disney sequel trilogy was the bees knees, this would not have happened.

Mark Hamill had a massive issue with the way his character was treated by Rian Johnson and Kathlene Kenedy also, so it's not just the OG fans who knew Disney was making a mess of the Star Wars IP. When the final installment of a trilogy makes 1/2 of the opening film, it pretty much tells you it went off the rails somewhere.

Want a perfect example of how to do this correctly? Ghostbusters Afterlife. Respected the past characters and introduced a new and very likeable cast of young actors who happened to be very diverse also. I absolutely loved that movie, and it is already getting a sequel because it was so well received.

 

[BrianL]

At the end of the day the customers determine what is successful. A hotel based on Kylo and Rey was built and a Billion dollars were spent on it. It has been shut down after just 18 months of operation. If the Disney sequel trilogy was the bees knees, this would not have happened.

Mark Hamill had a massive issue with the way his character was treated by Rian Johnson and Kathlene Kenedy also, so it's not just the OG fans who knew Disney was making a mess of the Star Wars IP. When the final installment of a trilogy makes 1/2 of the opening film, it pretty much tells you it went off the rails somewhere.

Want a perfect example of how to do this correctly? Ghostbusters Afterlife. Respected the past characters and introduced a new and very likeable cast of young actors who happened to be very diverse also. I absolutely loved that movie, and it is already getting a sequel because it was so well received.

Well, I don't believe that the Starcruiser would have done so much better if the movies were better of if it was based ont he OT. The fact is, the audience who would want to cosplay for a couple days in a highly themed envrionment AND could afford to do it was always small. it was a niche product.

People make too much of Mark Hammil's statements. He did say he had misgivings about how his character was handled, but also that he understood it after consulting with Rian. It may not have been ideal for him, but "massive issue" i snot how I'd describe it - that's projecting. Fans so often have this immediate backlash toward anything that isn't exactly what they would have done. Personally, I think the Sequel Trilogy respected teh characters just fine. It in fact lionized them. Sure, Luke ran off to be a hermit, which is right out of the Jedi playbook (see Yoda, Obi-Wan), but he STILL got to be the hero of the movie and save everyone. I've never understood the issue with it.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Not sure I agree with you there. The OG Star Wars fans are all 45-70 years old with more expendable income than just about any other age group. If there was a group that could have afforded the expensive cost of that experience, it was them.

 

[BrianL]

Not sure I agree with you there. The OG Star Wars fans are all 45-70 years old with more expendable income than just about any other age group. If there was a group that could have afforded the expensive cost of that experience, it was them.

Yeah, but do 45 to 70 year old's have any interest in a roleplay/cosplay experience like that? Do enough of them have that much money too - most Star Wars fans that I know, no matter which era they like, don't. Would they go multiple times or just one-and-done? I just don't think it would have made a significant difference.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

What I thought should have been done is have the experience be different depending on the day. Have a few days that are Rey and Kylo, then a day or two of Mando and Grogu, and then two days of Luke & Vader. That appeals to the most people overall and even gets you some repeat visitors for the super fans.

 

[BrianL]

What I thought should have been done is have the experience be different depending on the day. Have a few days that are Rey and Kylo, then a day or two of Mando and Grogu, and then two days of Luke & Vader. That appeals to the most people overall and even gets you some repeat visitors for the super fans.

That's not a bad idea, but at those prices I'm not sure repeat business was ever in the cards. Maybe a shorter and less expensive experience would have worked better.

 

[supernova]

The Zahn Trilogy should have only been the sequels if they had made them in 1993. They didn't so they kind of had to move on from that. Personally, I'm happy with what we got. It's good in it's own way. The real issue is that so many fans only want what they got when they were 8 years old, but Star Wars has always been for 8 year olds - it's just now it's for the 8 year olds of today. The same was true of the prequels and why so many OT fans hated them. new generations get ethir own version - that's fine.

At some point, some of the material stopped feeling like Star Wars. One prime example to me was that Andor series. It felt like Star Trek or any other generic science fiction show, but not Star Wars. Which is where throwing in a stormtrooper or any other recognizable character is the only way Disney can remind fans that they're supposed to be watching Star Wars material.

 

[supernova]

Yeah, but do 45 to 70 year old's have any interest in a roleplay/cosplay experience like that? Do enough of them have that much money too - most Star Wars fans that I know, no matter which era they like, don't. Would they go multiple times or just one-and-done? I just don't think it would have made a significant difference.

If by "cosplay" you mean grownass adults dressing up in silly Halloween costumes when it's not Halloween, then no. Zero interest.

 

[BrianL]

At some point, some of the material stopped feeling like Star Wars. One prime example to me was that Andor series. It felt like Star Trek or any other generic science fiction show, but not Star Wars. Which is where throwing in a stormtrooper or any other recognizable character is the only way Disney can remind fans that they're supposed to be watching Star Wars material.

But when a universe has been around a while and is that large, there is room to tell different types of stories. There is no harm in trying such things out. People seemed to like Andor better than say Obi-Wan, which I would argue was more Star Wars-y. I preferred Obi myself, but also recognize Andor as very good. Andor was kind of like certain episodes of The Clone Wars where they really fot into the politics, so it wasn't exactly unprecidented.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Obi-Wan rubbed alot of Star Wars fans the wrong way, because it broke cannon pretty severely. It is very clear in episode 4 that Leia did not know Ben / Obi-Wan. If she and Obi-Wan had all this high adventure together that was depicted in the series, she would have certainly remembered him!

It should have been about Luke instead of Leia, but Kathlene Kennedy simply would not allow that to happen. It was poorly written, and the fans turned their backs on the series. It's really that simple.

You simply cannot look at the viewership of the last few Star Wars projects and say in any way that Star Wars is in a good place right now.

Next up for KK is ruining another Lucas Films franchise in Indianna Jones.

Star Wars = damaged brand
Willow = damaged brand
Indianna Jones = biggest budget of any film Disney has ever made, can it make money?

 

[BrianL]

Obi-Wan rubbed alot of Star Wars fans the wrong way, because it broke cannon pretty severely. It is very clear in episode 4 that Leia did not know Ben / Obi-Wan. If she and Obi-Wan had all this high adventure together that was depicted in the series, she would have certainly remembered him!

It should have been about Luke instead of Leia, but Kathlene Kennedy simply would not allow that to happen. It was poorly written, and the fans turned their backs on the series. It's really that simple.

You simply cannot look at the viewership of the last few Star Wars projects and say in any way that Star Wars is in a good place right now.

Next up for KK is ruining another Lucas Films franchise in Indianna Jones.

Star Wars = damaged brand
Willow = damaged brand
Indianna Jones = biggest budget of any film Disney has ever made, can it make money?

I don't think it's necessarily "clear" that she doesn't remember him. I think she probably DOES, hence why she is asking HIM for help! The message is quite proper and a little cryptic, but that could just be playing it close to the vest, which is a very Leia thing to do. Some fans were upset that he met luke too, but do you remember every adult your parents introduced you to at 8 years old? I don't know why you think that Kennedy would not "allow it" - she probably had little to do with the decision.

Now, you're right in that viewership and audience reaction hasn't been the best lately, but I seriously doubt more people would have watched Obi-Wan if it had young Luke insread of Leia. In fact, the continuity police would probably find MORE things to hate about it because it would have really run all over the canon. I don't know why fans think that when a project underperfomrs that it must be because of some minor slight they perceive - it's alwyas so much more complicated than that. Most viewers don't even care about those things.

Indy is definitely going to be tough. Personally, I think it will be good, but will it make back that budget? That's the ongoing problem of Hollywood - there simply aren't enough movie-going dollars for that many blockbusters. There used to only be one or two of those a year. Not everything can make a billion dollars!

 

[BrianL]

Also, to add about Willow, that series was GREAT! The fact that audiences overlooked it is insane. It was certainly kind of weird, but so is the original movie. Embrace the weirdness, people! That said, Willow wasn't much of a "brand" to begin with. The failure of the series though is more of a failure on the part of humanity, not the show.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

At the end of the day the consumers determine what is successful though. I get that you thought Willow was great, but the vast majority of everyone else thought it stunk. No one watched it, so that is what determines if something is a commercial success.

Most of the time I am speaking from a point of the average fan here on viewership. Why do I think Luke would sell to the current Star Wars fans, because the end of Season 2 trended on every form of social media for weeks. Tons of youtube videos of people young and old losing their minds seeing master jedi Luke returning to kick some tail. He was the hero of a entire generation, of course Luke is a big freaking deal.

I think you greatly underestimate the average Star Wars fan. People know the cannon, and many have even read the EU books as well.

 

[BrianL]

No, I get that, though it's not that people thought it "stunk" it's that they didn't even want to try to watch it. That has more to do with marketing than anything, and a concept that was never a bona-fide classic (Willow).

Do you think fans want to see eight-year-old Luke though? Somehow I bet they'd be pretty unhappy with that! A Post- ROTJ Luke is a very different thing. Mandalorian was already popular too.

Most people HAVE NOT read the EU. Most people have not watched the OT hundreds of times. Whole Star Wars has a strong fanbase, they are still the minority of the potential viewing audience for shows and movies. That stuff just doesn't matter enough to have a huge impact.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

All I know is there were tons of videos of grown men crying on youtube videos seeing their childhood hero Luke back in his proper glory. Nothing and I repeat nothing, has had that level of trending in the Disney Star Wars era.

 

[BrianL]

All I know is there were tons of videos of grown men crying on youtube videos seeing their childhood hero Luke back in his proper glory. Nothing and I repeat nothing, has had that level of trending in the Disney Star Wars era.

I'm sure it did. it was a great and important moment. Not everything is that. I was excited to see Ewan and Hayden back as Obi and Ani too. I mena, Obi-Wan was always cooler than Luke anyway, so....

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I don't think it's necessarily "clear" that she doesn't remember him. I think she probably DOES, hence why she is asking HIM for help! The message is quite proper and a little cryptic, but that could just be playing it close to the vest, which is a very Leia thing to do. Some fans were upset that he met luke too, but do you remember every adult your parents introduced you to at 8 years old? I don't know why you think that Kennedy would not "allow it" - she probably had little to do with the decision.

Now, you're right in that viewership and audience reaction hasn't been the best lately, but I seriously doubt more people would have watched Obi-Wan if it had young Luke insread of Leia. In fact, the continuity police would probably find MORE things to hate about it because it would have really run all over the canon. I don't know why fans think that when a project underperfomrs that it must be because of some minor slight they perceive - it's alwyas so much more complicated than that. Most viewers don't even care about those things.

Indy is definitely going to be tough. Personally, I think it will be good, but will it make back that budget? That's the ongoing problem of Hollywood - there simply aren't enough movie-going dollars for that many blockbusters. There used to only be one or two of those a year. Not everything can make a billion dollars!

However, when you do it correctly, they will show up in droves. How did that box office for Top Gun do again?

 

[BrianL]

However, when you do it correctly, they will show up in droves. How did that box office for Top Gun do again?

Yeah, but Top Gun didn't have 5 sequels in 4 years. It is more comparable to The Force Awakesn - for which fans DID show up. And all of the saga films made over $1B - that's a success no matter what.

 

[leiaorgana]

Just browsing through this thread and some of the takes on here are…interesting to say the least but I’ll zip it on that.

But to jump in - The original Kenobi script was about Obi Wan and Luke when it was still a standalone film but they decided to scrap it and take it in another direction because it was too predictable and I’m glad that they did because it was. Supposedly they didn’t want to be stuck on Tatooine for the whole series and the only way that Kenobi would ever leave his position safeguarding Luke was if Leia was in danger and that’s what we got.

Kenobi didn’t break canon but those YouTube grifters can keep whining about it all that they want. There’s a whole story group at Lucasfilm who’s entire job it is to make sure every show/film/book/game/comic book etc is canon compliant and there’s no way that they’d let something as big as that slip through the cracks with Kenobi.

Personally, I’m tired of Luke Skywalker popping up everywhere and the whole Skywalker family drama. As a pp said, the galaxy is huge and there’s more interesting stories to be told from other perspectives and timelines that I’m ready to explore that don’t involve Luke and co. What I loved about the first season of The Mandalorian was that it was its own mostly contained show but then they started to turn it into a Marvelesque “Mandoverse” and I felt like I had to watch the Boba Fett show, which I had no interest in whatsoever because Boba’s such an overrated character, to keep up.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

YEah, but Top Gun didn't have 5 sequels in 4 years. It is more comparable to The Force Awakesn - for which fans DID show up. And all of the saga films made over $1B - that's a success no matter what.

Ok so more like the upcoming Indiana Jones right?

Ok, well let's compare the two after it's theatrical run then:

Top Gun Maverick
$240 Million total all in budget
$1.5 Billion box office run

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
$450+ million total all in budget
???? total box office