Man convicted of groping Minnie Mouse

[Shutterbug]

However, guests don't have the inside scoop on costume design. I can honestly say that I've never had any idea about whether the CM inside a non-face character is a male or a female... I've also assumed it can be either. I'm also surprised that Disney would rely on the physical dimensions of a CM to dictate the external "outline" of one of the non-face characters.

I must say that I was under that assumption too. That the costumes were designed and shaped so that every time you see the character it looks the same regardless of who is in it.
As opposed to DollyPartonesque one time and uberskinnyrail like the next.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

However, guests don't have the inside scoop on costume design. I can honestly say that I've never had any idea about whether the CM inside a non-face character is a male or a female...

Some people don't, but with that particular character it tends to be fairly obvious if you are at all paying attention. And to clear up a point, it is not body dimension that determines that most are female. It is the fact that Minnie Mouse is less than 5 feet tall.

When I first started, I was shocked at the number of people (even guests) who told me that that height range was almost exclusively women. Sure, there are guests who are oblivious, but many are aware. So to say that it is impossible for him to tell is a very inaccurate statement. It is certainly possible that he was unaware, but it is also very possible that he did know.

I don't care if it is a guy or girl, your hands do not need to be all over their chest. We don't mind hugs, we love hugs. But use some common sense.

 

[Vallie]

I don't care if it is a guy or girl, your hands do not need to be all over their chest. We don't mind hugs, we love hugs. But use some common sense.

i compleely agree! even if it was a guy, no need for the hands to be there!

not to hijack the thread but since u have done that job do you think its strange or funny when adults there alone wanna take pics/autographs with the characters? my dbf and i are going next week and we are excited to get character pics and autographs (Especially me!) but after reading this thread we were talking about the weirdness factor the other night since we realize alot of the people who do this job are probably around our age!! what are your thoughts?

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Absolutely not! We love it when adults come up to us. Sometimes they're more fun than the kids. Just don't try to hit us or ask us inappropriate questions. (So, don't ask if there is air conditioning, if the person is a boy or a girl, etc.) We work hard to make it magical for eveybody. We know you know, but still play along. Heck, many of us will see characters on our off days and get excited about it! We also don't mind if you want to have some fun. Like when a guy gets down on one knee and looks like he is going to propose to Minnie. (Or when Minnie steals said guy, she is a shameless flirt.) Or sometimes Stitch will make you put up devil horns. We love it when guests play along.

 

[Geoff_M]

Some people don't, but with that particular character it tends to be fairly obvious if you are at all paying attention. And to clear up a point, it is not body dimension that determines that most are female. It is the fact that Minnie Mouse is less than 5 feet tall.

But here's the thing... I'd guess that 99% of guests don't pay attention to such things. We don't know how the costumes work. I still think you're approaching this with the assumption that the knowledge you have about the characters is common among guests... and it's not.

So to say that it is impossible for him to tell is a very inaccurate statement. It is certainly possible that he was unaware, but it is also very possible that he did know.

I suppose that if I could see several Minnies lined up, I'd be able to tell what's foam rubber and what's real. And I suppose that if I spent some time studying a particular CM in costume I'd have a pretty good guess about the gender of the person inside. But absent those things, I wouldn't likely know. I never said it was impossible to ever be able to tell... my point is that I don't think it's something that guests spend much time thinking about when they're standing in a character line with their family. I don't assume that every Mickey has a male CM inside and every Minnie has a female. I also don't know the height requirements for every given character and the gender distribution of the CMs that meet those requirements.

I just have a hard time buying the idea that this was some sort of sexual assault on the CM. The police didn't seem to buy it, nor did the Judge. The guy was charged for basically "roughing up" the CM and that was it.

I don't care if it is a guy or girl, your hands do not need to be all over their chest. We don't mind hugs, we love hugs. But use some common sense.

So you think he should be have been arrested if Minnie was a "guy"???

I agree that you don't need to be putting your hands on the front of a female cartoon character, but I don't think that lack of common sense rises to the level of criminality.

 

[Vallie]

Absolutely not! We love it when adults come up to us. Sometimes they're more fun than the kids. Just don't try to hit us or ask us inappropriate questions. (So, don't ask if there is air conditioning, if the person is a boy or a girl, etc.) We work hard to make it magical for eveybody. We know you know, but still play along. Heck, many of us will see characters on our off days and get excited about it! We also don't mind if you want to have some fun. Like when a guy gets down on one knee and looks like he is going to propose to Minnie. (Or when Minnie steals said guy, she is a shameless flirt.) Or sometimes Stitch will make you put up devil horns. We love it when guests play along.

I would never and niether would DBF! I loveddd the characters last time! they were super fun and interactive! We were just chattin about this subject and were more talking about the fact that most of these CMs were probably our age/around our age and we were wondering if characters thought its funny when they see adults without kiddos!! hehe good to know that not the case!

 

[luvmyfam444]

Okay, I'm a woman, wasn't there, didn't see it except for the picture. Only Minnie and the guy know what really happened but here's my take on it.

I agree with Feral Peg and Eyeore's Butterfly and have no doubt as to the amount of crap the CM's (especially characters) have to put up with. And I also believe that the CM really did feel that she was touched inapppropriately.

But I also believe KinPA that her FIL didn't intentionally do anything wrong when that happened. I know lots of guys, who when displaying affection (for lack of a better word) toward other guys, will put their arm around the back and lay their hand on the chest. Do you know what I mean? Now, they DON'T go around hugging girls that way (of course) but I also have been to WDW enough times to have seen my kids (even myself) get totally wrapped up in the moment and a character and forget that there's an ACTUAL person underneath the costume. So, in my mind anyway, it's very possible that the guy wasn't even thinking about a person (let alone a female) being under that costume. He was just thinking it's Minnie Mouse and he showing affection the same way he would to a buddy.

Perception is reality and what one person thought was innocent could very well be taken as not innocent by someone else. That's why in almost every other workplace, any kind of touching is strictly prohibited. But you can't do that as Disney.....with beloved characters. Maybe someday there will be a rule that guests can't have physical interaction with characters. Until then, this kind of stuff is always going to happen. Some innocent, some with bad intentions.

That's JMHO. I feel bad for the CM and I also feel bad for the guy. KinPA - Welcome to the DIS. I appreciate your post and I feel bad for your FIL. If it was truly unintentional (and it seems like it was to me), it's definately a hard lesson learned.

I agree with you - there's plenty of times I had a guy accidently touch me "there" when putting their arm around me for a pic. In this case with him being there for the 1st time - he didn't have a clue how to pose (I'd say lots of men don't!)
Of course if he did do it intentionally - then I have a problem with it - but you'd think the photographer would have said something -HELLO he is the one watching thru the lense....

And I was thinking Mickey is posed in the pic - just cut out so it could be a closeup.

I agree some other compromise should have been reached instead of giving this guy a record. I think its one thing if he's all over her & won't stop - but it doesn't seem like that to me.

I hate that he got a bad lawyer too - that's awful to add a bad lawyer to the mix.

And honestly - I don't think I've even once thought about the characters being male or female (except of course the ones with real faces) I guess I think of them as gender neutral -LOL having no idea if MM is a male or female -

 

[luvmyfam444]

Okay, one other thing... about the whole 'but nobody saw it' response.

There have been children drown in a busy public pool with dozens of people and even lifeguards around... nobody saw...

There have been violent crimes committed on the streets of our cities... with, very obviously, several passers-by... nobody saw.

We go around, most every one of us, every single day, seeing a fraction of what we could/should...

In no way whatsoever does the 'nobody saw' constitute any defense or evidence of innocence....

Especially in a case of this kind of alleged personal/sexual assault.

GOOD point!

 

[OceanAnnie]

I agree with you - there's plenty of times I had a guy accidently touch me "there" when putting their arm around me for a pic. In this case with him being there for the 1st time - he didn't have a clue how to pose (I'd say lots of men don't!)
Of course if he did do it intentionally - then I have a problem with it - but you'd think the photographer would have said something -HELLO he is the one watching thru the lense....

And I was thinking Mickey is posed in the pic - just cut out so it could be a closeup.

I agree some other compromise should have been reached instead of giving this guy a record. I think its one thing if he's all over her & won't stop - but it doesn't seem like that to me.

I hate that he got a bad lawyer too - that's awful to add a bad lawyer to the mix.

And honestly - I don't think I've even once thought about the characters being male or female (except of course the ones with real faces) I guess I think of them as gender neutral -LOL having no idea if MM is a male or female -

It didn't appear to be that innocent, IMO. The CM stated he was touching her chest and bottom IIRC.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

But here's the thing... I'd guess that 99% of guests don't pay attention to such things. We don't know how the costumes work. I still think you're approaching this with the assumption that the knowledge you have about the characters is common among guests... and it's not.

I suppose that if I could see several Minnies lined up, I'd be able to tell what's foam rubber and what's real. And I suppose that if I spent some time studying a particular CM in costume I'd have a pretty good guess about the gender of the person inside. But absent those things, I wouldn't likely know. I never said it was impossible to ever be able to tell... my point is that I don't think it's something that guests spend much time thinking about when they're standing in a character line with their family. I don't assume that every Mickey has a male CM inside and every Minnie has a female. I also don't know the height requirements for every given character and the gender distribution of the CMs that meet those requirements.

I just have a hard time buying the idea that this was some sort of sexual assault on the CM. The police didn't seem to buy it, nor did the Judge. The guy was charged for basically "roughing up" the CM and that was it.

So you think he should be have been arrested if Minnie was a "guy"???

I agree that you don't need to be putting your hands on the front of a female cartoon character, but I don't think that lack of common sense rises to the level of criminality.

I am not assuming that my level of knowledge is common. I am stating what I have heard directly from the mouths of guests. When I first started working in Fantasyland, is was not my fellow coworkers but guests who filled me in on all the background of the characters. The majority of guests are clueless, you're right. But I would hazard to guess at least 20% are perfectly aware, particularly if they have been before or are with somebody who has been. Again, this is based on comments I received from the guests themselves. Look at a previous post on this very board when a woman said it was very obvious to her and her husband that a certain character was female. I stand by my statement that he very easily could have known it was indeed a girl. Did he? I don't know. But that's not really the point of this. The point is he did something inappropriate. The character in question was a female character so even if he didn't know for sure if the performer was a girl or not, he treated that character like she was.

And yes, if it had been a guy he should have been charged the same way. If you walk up to a female character (the character themselves) and put your hands on the "breasts" of the character, then you are guilty of being inappropriate. What exactly is your intent? Even if you don't know if it's a girl, you are still participating in an act with the intent to harass. Just because you can't see the person inside does not make it ok. In this case it goes well beyond common sense. There used to be a time (I'm told) that when you hit a character you could be charged with assault. I wish it was still like that. Being in a costume does not make that person any less of a person.

Like I said, he obviously did soemthing he knew was wrong because he said he was just joking around and she took it wrong. I want to know what it was for her to have taken the wrong way. because that indicated he was doing something he should have known better than to do.

 

[OceanAnnie]

But here's the thing... I'd guess that 99% of guests don't pay attention to such things. We don't know how the costumes work. I still think you're approaching this with the assumption that the knowledge you have about the characters is common among guests... and it's not.

I suppose that if I could see several Minnies lined up, I'd be able to tell what's foam rubber and what's real. And I suppose that if I spent some time studying a particular CM in costume I'd have a pretty good guess about the gender of the person inside. But absent those things, I wouldn't likely know. I never said it was impossible to ever be able to tell... my point is that I don't think it's something that guests spend much time thinking about when they're standing in a character line with their family. I don't assume that every Mickey has a male CM inside and every Minnie has a female. I also don't know the height requirements for every given character and the gender distribution of the CMs that meet those requirements.

I just have a hard time buying the idea that this was some sort of sexual assault on the CM. The police didn't seem to buy it, nor did the Judge. The guy was charged for basically "roughing up" the CM and that was it.

So you think he should be have been arrested if Minnie was a "guy"???

I agree that you don't need to be putting your hands on the front of a female cartoon character, but I don't think that lack of common sense rises to the level of criminality.

IMO, if it were a guy in the suit and someone was all over the character in the guy's private region, yes.

 

[Geoff_M]

I want to know what it was for her to have taken the wrong way. because that indicated he was doing something he should have known better than to do.

I think it is a stretch to think that such a statement is an admission of guilt to the "groping" itself. I don't think he trying to say "Yeah, I intentionally grabbed your rear-end and breasts, but it was just a joke and didn't mean anything about it."

Here's a couple videos from the trial that I don't have been posted here:
Summary of trial as it goes to the jury
Testimony of the CM

They videos show the un-cropped evidence photos used in the trial. Neither of them appear to be "smoking guns".

Do I think that the grandfather was likely acting like an idiot with Minnie? Yes. But I don't think there's clear evidence that he acted criminally or intentionally "groped" her in certain regions based on what I've read and seen. Do I think that the CM is lying? No. I think she honestly thinks she was assaulted, but I find it odd that she "pushed down" a guest in an attempt to halt the perceived attack and the character handler and the other 8 people in the small room didn't notice.

 

[EMom]

Some people keep making the point that no one else saw the groping. A few years ago, DH and I took DD to stand in line and get and autograph from Pocahontas, who was accompanied by a raccoon. (in costume) We stood a little off to the side of the characters as DD went up to get her pic taken. The line was huge, so who knows how many people were "watching." At any rate, just before DD gets to Pocahontas, the raccoon (a CM, mind you) standing beside Pocahontas reaches over and grabs a handful of her rear and gives it a squeeze. No joke. That was one pervy raccoon. She never broke character and those kids just kept filing through for autographs. She may have slapped the raccoon once they were in private, but who can say? My point is, probably 50-60 people were in the immediate vicinity with their eyes right on Pocahontas and no one saw it except DH and I, as far as I could tell. That doesn't even count the many people passing by. And let me assure you, her hiney was certainly groped.