Make anti-vaccine parents pay higher premiums

[lillygator]

Then there should be higher premiums for people who eat junk food too. Obesity is getting awfully expensive - those people should pay more.

Really...where does it stop? People make all KINDS of bad choices around their health. How do you pick what makes premiums go up and what doesn't?

but eating junk food is not a fair analogy - un immunized can pose a health risk.

 

[Magpie]

but eating junk food is not a fair analogy - un immunized can pose a health risk.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/25/health/25cnd-fat.html

Study Says Obesity Can Be Contagious

Quote: "The answer, the researchers report, was that people were most likely to become obese when a friend became obese. That increased a person’s chances of becoming obese by 57 percent."

Just sayin'...

 

[DisneyScraps]

When my DD started in a public school we will out all the paperwork and about 10 days later I got a call that we needed to provide her immunization record. No problem, I immediately called her pediatrician. They couldn't find it . It took them A WEEK and my DD was told not to come back to school until we got it. I didn't realize that I could have claimed a religious exemption, I would have just so she didn't miss a week of school.

I like this discussion and I would prefer to see a more merit based system of insurance. If you are not over weight, discount. If you don't smoke, discount etc etc. They do it with car insurance.

Lisa

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I'd go with that. I refuse to get my kids vaccinated for flu every year, but we do the other standards.

Here's another thing. How about you keep your sick kids home instead of sending them back to school full of advil and cough medicine where they can sneeze or cough and spread their germs? And how about YOU stay home when you're sick too? Not rocket science.

I get that people need to go to work, but I'm tired of paying the price.

I'm sorry, but a cold takes 7-10 days to completely run it's course. Do you really think I should keep my child home those 7-10 days each time she gets a cold? And I should stay home from work too? If it's just a cold, people need to build up their immunity, not hide in the closet like they have the plague. I don't mean this to be snarky, but are you a stay-at-home parent? Anyone who works for a living knows it is impossible to stay home with your kids when they have a cold, then stay home when you're sick. If the sickness is also accompanied by a rash, fever, etc., then by all means stay home, but for just the common cold, I think this is a bit over the top.

 

[Geoff_M]

I like this DR!!!!

There was a story in our newspaper a week ago about the same thing. Here a significant number of pediatrics practices have adopted the same position. If there isn't a specific medical reason to not have your kid vaccinated and your refuse, then please find yourself a "crunchy" Doc.

However, as much as I don't care for anti-vaccine lunacy, I'm not for raising the insurance premiums on such people. As noted, we can apply that logic to any number of choices. However, I don't have a problem of offering a discount for people (adults included) that are fully up to date on all vaccinations... just like some companies do for people that don't smoke.

 

[Nette]

Ah, and that's where it comes out. A legitimate reason can only be legitimate based on your criteria, which evidently is a severe allergic reaction? No other reason is legitimate, really?

Huh, I completely disagree. I'm not anti-necessary vaccinations, but really, a vaccination for chicken pox? A vaccination for HPV (Gardasil, which hasn't been sufficiently tested and particularly hasn't been tested in combination with other vaccines)? People who choose not to have their children subjected to certain vaccines (not ALL vaccines) are most certainly not doing so because of "false information" and because they "aren't necessarily as intelligent as they think they are" (and from that, I'm sorry, but I read it as you saying, "they're not as intelligent as I am" ).

As I said, I'm not opposed to ALL vaccines, but I have the right to make an educated decision about non-required vaccines. Actually, I even have the right to at least protest vehemently if a vaccine becomes required and I have found good research indicating it is dangerous, unneccessary, poorly tested, or if I have a serious problem with that particular vaccine because of my religious beliefs.

Plus, as other posters have said, there are too many other ways insurance companies could investigate every aspect of a person's life and find "legitimate" reasons not to cover that person or to hike up his or her rates. Other posters have mentioned poor eating habits, smoking, what about people who simply don't exercise? What about a skinny person who -- under the surface -- are actually less healthy than an overweight person? There are just too many ways this could go wrong, and I don't see evidence supporting the idea that unvaccinated people are endangering anyone any more than those who go to work with a cold, strep, a flu, sinus infection, etc. I have a strong feeling (not that a "feeling" is evidence, of course) that those are the ones who cause more problems. But it still shouldn't affect their insurance.

This. Exactly.

I'd LOVE to see the IQ analysis of anti-vax persons. I'm actually willing to bet that their avg IQ is above the average American IQ. I say this not because I think they are right about vaccines being dangerous, but because they are more likely to be readers, and most people with an average IQ are very unlikely to be readers. Of course, that's all just speculation on my part, and I think the statistics would be interesting. (Cuz I'm a math nerd like that. )

All that said, I used to think anti-vaxers were entirely irresponsible. And then, I had a bad reaction to a flu shot. By the time the doctors figured out what was wrong with me I had all but lost my ability to walk. Now, I have done a heck of a lot more investigation into vaccines. I am not going to blindly follow the herd off a cliff because Uncle Sam says I have to. My children *DO* get the major vaccines, and my older child even got the chicken pox vaccine, but I think there are vaccines I will be declining in the future. Flu shots for sure. Varicella for my younger child and HPV for my older child. When we were all kids the number of vaccines was SO MUCH smaller. I think it's pretty crazy to be shooting really young children up with these giant cocktails all at once.

Anyway, to the point. I have to agree that until ALL factors are taken into account and EVERYONE is charged a premium based on ALL their lifestyle choices, you can't go around charging people who don't vax more even if they "arbitrarily" refuse vaccines (and who is to say that their decision is really arbitrary?). As for an "exception" for medical reasons, how would you define that? Is my bad reaction to a flu shot reason enough to keep my kids from getting it? How about if I had 3 kids and two are allergic to eggs? Can the 3rd avoid vaccines based on the fact that he is likely allergic to eggs too? or does he have to be subjected to the vaccine to prove he has an allergy?

Articles like this are really poorly thought out opinion pieces that I really shouldn't read because they just tick me off enough to add even more stress to my life. But the topic is just so interesting to me I can't help myself.

 

[Wendy31]

I'm on the fence w/ this one too.

On the one hand, I don't want the gov't telling me what I can and cannot do with my children.

On the other hand, I resent the parents that don't vaccinate their children & rely on those of us who do to keep their children healthy. I understand that some children cannot get some vaccinations due to documented, real health issues. However, for the vast majority of kids who don't get vaccinations, I don't believe that's the case.

As someone else mentioned, whooping cough is deadly to new babies. And whooping cough is making a comeback - some believe this is due to not as many people being vaccinated against it as in years past. When our youngest DS was a very young baby, I was scared to take him out - even to take him to our pediatrician's office.

Originally posted by Hoodie - Our pediatrician no longer accepts patients who are not vaccinated or will not be vaccinated. There are too many infants in their practice who have not yet received vaccinations and they had a scare with a 3 day old infant being exposed to whooping cough due to an unvaccinated child.

Thankfully nothing happened, but their policy is now no vaccine=find another doctor.

I love this! And wish our doctor's office was the same! As an aside, when our youngest DS was almost 6 months old, he caught RSV from the doctor's office - I had taken him for his well-visit.

And I would also support kids not be allowed to attend school unless they are vaccinated (or have a documented medical reason for not being vaccinated).

Originally posted by tiggersbombed2 - Here's another thing. How about you keep your sick kids home instead of sending them back to school full of advil and cough medicine where they can sneeze or cough and spread their germs? And how about YOU stay home when you're sick too? Not rocket science.

I get that people need to go to work, but I'm tired of paying the price.

Amen! If you or your kids are sick, STAY HOME!! I sort of understand having to go the grocery store or drugstore if you're sick, but I don't understand strolling about the mall & sounding like you're about to cough up a lung.

 

[Nette]

As someone else mentioned, whooping cough is deadly to new babies. And whooping cough is making a comeback - some believe this is due to not as many people being vaccinated against it as in years past. When our youngest DS was a very young baby, I was scared to take him out - even to take him to our pediatrician's office.

And some research is showing that it's because adults are losing immunity due to not getting the boosters for pertussis. A few years ago, a guy in my office had a lingering cough. It wasn't really bothering him all that much... Then one of his kids got diagnosed with whooping cough. Both father and child had been vaxed against pertussis, and dad tested positive for it as well. His doctor said that MOST adults with a lingering cough should be tested for it.

There is similar research showing that vaccinations for chicken pox in children is causing outbreaks of shingles in younger adults (because they are not exposed often which acted as a booster).

 

[wvjules]

I'm on the fence w/ this one too.

On the one hand, I don't want the gov't telling me what I can and cannot do with my children.

They already do.

 

[anna_chronistic]

And some research is showing that it's because adults are losing immunity due to not getting the boosters for pertussis. A few years ago, a guy in my office had a lingering cough. It wasn't really bothering him all that much... Then one of his kids got diagnosed with whooping cough. Both father and child had been vaxed against pertussis, and dad tested positive for it as well. His doctor said that MOST adults with a lingering cough should be tested for it.

There is similar research showing that vaccinations for chicken pox in children is causing outbreaks of shingles in younger adults (because they are not exposed often which acted as a booster).

Wow, actually, I want to thank you for this. Occasionally I've had recurrences of long-lasting coughs, and it never occurred to me that it might be whooping cough because I had the vaccine as a child, but I don't recall getting a booster for it. I'll speak to my doctor about this at my check-up next month. Appreciate the heads-up!

 

[Magpie]

This. Exactly.

I'd LOVE to see the IQ analysis of anti-vax persons. I'm actually willing to bet that their avg IQ is above the average American IQ. I say this not because I think they are right about vaccines being dangerous, but because they are more likely to be readers, and most people with an average IQ are very unlikely to be readers. Of course, that's all just speculation on my part, and I think the statistics would be interesting. (Cuz I'm a math nerd like that. )

A teacher in a gifted classroom once told me that Gifted Parents are the most troublesome parents she's ever had. Why? Because they ask questions, they develop their own ideas about things, they refuse to just fall in line and do what they're told, and they push boundaries. In other words, they're just like their kids.

I would think parents with higher IQs are MORE likely to be non-compliant with directives from on high, than parents with lower IQs. Smart enough to be suspicious, but not educated enough to truly grasp the science behind vaccines. (And who is, really, outside of doctors and immunologists?)

BTW - A woman stood up to speak at the vaccination info session we attended. A couple years back she had taken her baby in to be vaccinated. The baby developed a fever, got lethargic, and died a day later. Her doctor said it was coincidence. Just bad luck. Meningitis. Is this woman being irrational if she refuses to have her other children vaccinated?

Possibly, but I could hardly blame her. In her shoes, or even if I was closely related to her, I don't think I could have vaccinated my surviving children, either.

 

[Wendy31]

Originally posted by Nette - And some research is showing that it's because adults are losing immunity due to not getting the boosters for pertussis. A few years ago, a guy in my office had a lingering cough. It wasn't really bothering him all that much... Then one of his kids got diagnosed with whooping cough. Both father and child had been vaxed against pertussis, and dad tested positive for it as well. His doctor said that MOST adults with a lingering cough should be tested for it.

There is similar research showing that vaccinations for chicken pox in children is causing outbreaks of shingles in younger adults (because they are not exposed often which acted as a booster).

This is true, & the article I referenced also mentioned this reason as well. In the author's research, they had come to those 2 conclusions for why whooping cough was making a comeback. California saw a high increase of whooping cough & several babies died. (I would link it, but it's been some months since I read it - it was on CNN.com, I think.) In fact, my child's pediatrician suggested that both DH & I receive the pertussis booster so that we could "shield" DS while he was still too young for the vaccine.

I'm very fearful of my kids getting sick (even something simple like a small fever can cause me to panic which is my own anxiety problem, I know), so I vaccinate because I'm too scared not to. And I really don't want things like small pox & whooping cough to make a comeback!

That being said, I'm still not sure about the new Guardisil (I think it's called) vaccine for young girls & teen girls.

Interestingly (& quite unlike me!), I almost didn't have my DD vaccinated against chickenpox because I read that if a woman has had chickenpox she can pass on initial immunities to chickenpox to her newborn when it is most dangerous to contract chickenpox. I had chickenpox as a child. So I didn't want to take away that benefit from my DD and any of her future children. However, in the end, we decided to go ahead w/ it.

Originally posted by wvjules - They already do.

*sigh* I know.

 

[princesspeach]

I don't think to many unvaccinated kids are ending up in hospital. What they should do is make overweight people and smokers pay higher premiums. Those are the people that are ruining our healthcare system. The healthcare cost that go along with being obese are astronomical. If being unvaccinated makes you overeat than maybe there is a point to all this.

 

[Holly]

What's next? Fining parents of overweight kids?

Yes. That is next.

Wait for it.

It also makes perfect sense that if parents should be fined for choosing not to vaccinate, parents of overweight children should also be fined (unless a legitimate medical cause can be found).

Both involve choices on the part of the parent. Parents choose to vaccinate (or not), and parents choose to feed their children healthy food and to keep them active (or not).

 

[princesspeach]

but eating junk food is not a fair analogy - un immunized can pose a health risk.

Eating junk food is worse for your immune system than being unimmunized.

 

[Ember]

I'd LOVE to see the IQ analysis of anti-vax persons. I'm actually willing to bet that their avg IQ is above the average American IQ. I say this not because I think they are right about vaccines being dangerous, but because they are more likely to be readers, and most people with an average IQ are very unlikely to be readers. Of course, that's all just speculation on my part, and I think the statistics would be interesting. (Cuz I'm a math nerd like that. )

I highly doubt IQ has anything to do with choosing to vaccinate. Besides, there is a different between someone who reads, and someone who thinks. (This is not a slam against any vaccination choice, just a statement.) There is a whole lot of misinformation out there, and a degree from the "University of Google" does not make you an expert on anything. Reading does not equal intelligence, it's just a basic skill. Many ignorant people are capable of doing it. Intelligence is critically examining information, not just digesting it and spitting it back up.

 

[princesspeach]

I'm on the fence w/ this one too.

On the one hand, I don't want the gov't telling me what I can and cannot do with my children.

On the other hand, I resent the parents that don't vaccinate their children & rely on those of us who do to keep their children healthy. I understand that some children cannot get some vaccinations due to documented, real health issues. However, for the vast majority of kids who don't get vaccinations, I don't believe that's the case.

As someone else mentioned, whooping cough is deadly to new babies. And whooping cough is making a comeback - some believe this is due to not as many people being vaccinated against it as in years past. When our youngest DS was a very young baby, I was scared to take him out - even to take him to our pediatrician's office

I love this! And wish our doctor's office was the same! As an aside, when our youngest DS was almost 6 months old, he caught RSV from the doctor's office - I had taken him for his well-visit.

And I would also support kids not be allowed to attend school unless they are vaccinated (or have a documented medical reason for not being vaccinated).



Amen! If you or your kids are sick, STAY HOME!! I sort of understand having to go the grocery store or drugstore if you're sick, but I don't understand strolling about the mall & sounding like you're about to cough up a lung.

Taking your kids to the doctor when they are well is not a good idea. There is no vaccine for RSV. Most kids get it before they are 2 and develop there own immunity. Getting colds and flus is part of childhood thats how you develop immunity. Not by getting jabbed with all the crap they put in in the flu vaccines. I'm not saying all vaccines are bad, but a lot of them are unnecessary. Eating healthy, getting exercise, and lots of sunshine(without suncreen to block out the vit D) is a lot better than a vaccine.

 

[princesspeach]

I highly doubt IQ has anything to do with choosing to vaccinate. Besides, there is a different between someone who reads, and someone who thinks. (This is not a slam against any vaccination choice, just a statement.) There is a whole lot of misinformation out there, and a degree from the "University of Google" does not make you an expert on anything. Reading does not equal intelligence, it's just a basic skill. Many ignorant people are capable of doing it. Intelligence is critically examining information, not just digesting it and spitting it back up.

What makes a person a great thinker. Reading usually leads to thinking and vice versa. Many people get vaccines without doing either. They do it because I tell them the cdc recommends it. Trust me I know I vaccinate people everyday. The ones that refuse the vaccine usually have researched vaccines and can tell me why they don't want it. Wether they are right or wrong isin't the point. The point is they actually thought about it.

 

[Geoff_M]

The ones that refuse the vaccine usually have researched vaccines and can tell me why they don't want it. Wether they are right or wrong isin't the point. The point is they actually thought about it.

Would you feel the same way if a pregnant patient told you that they had researched it, concluded that HIV didn't cause AIDS, and she didn't plan on taking antiretroviral drugs to try and prevent passing HIV on to her child? The fact they thought about it was more important than the conclusion they reached?

 

[Ember]

What makes a person a great thinker. Reading usually leads to thinking and vice versa. Many people get vaccines without doing either. They do it because I tell them the cdc recommends it. Trust me I know I vaccinate people everyday. The ones that refuse the vaccine usually have researched vaccines and can tell me why they don't want it. Wether they are right or wrong isin't the point. The point is they actually thought about it.

I would argue that having just "having a reason" does not equal thinking. I can read all the information I want about the Earth being flat, give you all the reasons I read on the internet, but that doesn't make it so. There are valid reasons for not vaccinating, or for choosing to delay the vaccination schedule. But if all you're reading is one side of the argument, then you aren't thinking critically. And your opinion is biased at best and just ignorant at worst.

You are right that many people get vaccines without thinking either, and that's a very fair point. But I would say many people choose not to vaccinate based on little factual (studied and reviewed) information - which in my books is just as bad.

So I still say that I very highly doubt that IQ would show any relation to a proclivity to vaccinate.