Major expansion plans for Universal!

[Peter Pirate 2]

I complain about Disney because I'm upset at what they have become. I still love WDW and will be there in 1 week. The simple fact is Disney is no longer the most innovative in the business.

Excellent post. Sadly there are too many apologists that either think Walt is still around somewhere or that the MBA's are really all that knowledgeable.

 

[Timmy Boy]

Figment: TEACHING HP at Universities??

Are you confusing Hogwash (or Hogworts or whatever it is) with real schools??

http://blog.moviefone.com/2010/11/11/harry-potter-college-courses/

 

[TisBit]

I complain about Disney because I'm upset at what they have become. I still love WDW and will be there in 1 week. The simple fact is Disney is no longer the most innovative in the business.

But people have been upset with Disney from the day after Walt died. I remember in the early 80's my parents complaining about what the company had become. While I agree, Disney is not the MOST innovative, I don't think Universal can hold that record either. Yes, they have the latest innovation, but not the most innovative, they need to do a lot more to hold that title. There are much smaller parks that have done much more innovative things on a whole.

As far as Universal being #1, even in Orlando, they have a long ways to go and we will see if it has staying power. While they have had attendance increase (which no one doubted they would) the question is the long term 2-5 years...even out to 10. Will Universal be able to continue to grow and that depends on smart sustained growth, not just on the WWoHP theme, but in both the Studios and IoA to draw more than just potter fans to one park. They can do it and really give a good alternative destination to WDW, but they will never overcome WDW or replace it. But that isn't a goal or even a real possibility just due to logistics (land, etc).

The best thing to happen to the theme park guest in Orlando is to for there to be a real theme park war between WDW and Universal. WDW haters will never see good in WDW and vice versa for Universal, but the only way for the accountants to take a backseat to the imaginears is for true long term competition to develop. Don't expect the parks to respond to each other blow by blow, but you will just see a serious of upgrades, improvements and additions spurring at both. Honestly, you have already seen a lot of it hitting the drawing boards at WDW, with revamped rides, expanding fantasyland, Star Tours, rumored AK expansion, etc etc. While these are long term, so our some of Universals and that is what we need to get innovation back to the front of the game. No park will ultimately win over the other, they will just grow together, but the theme park guest will win.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Timmy Boy: Truly amazing!!

I think I've seen it all--a college course where they investigate whether or not "anti-gravity" research can actually procduce a flying broomstick
Heck-Bednobs and Broomsticks had that long before Potter.

What if yours dosen't fly? I guess an "F"--or maybe a D+ for effort?

 

[ChrisFL]

...but the theme park guest will win.

EXACTLY

 

[Figment632]

Name the last innovative thing Disney did? Again I am a DVC owner I love Disney but they are just not number one anymore what is so hard to except about that?

 

[tjkraz]

Name the last innovative thing Disney did? Again I am a DVC owner I love Disney but they are just not number one anymore what is so hard to except about that?

I would start with the entire Living Character Initiative. Turtle Talk...Mr. Potatohead at TSM...Monster's Inc...Remy. Costume characters with face articulation. We've all seen the demo videos still emerging enhancements which enable characters to speak to guests.

Interactive attraction queues.

World of Color.

Kim Possible interactive quest.

Disney has added some nice touch-screen & interactive features to things like Spaceship Earth and The Sum of All Thrills. I cannot think of any similar advances implemented by Disney's theme park rivals.

There is no dearth of new ideas and advances in WDI. The main thing working against Disney in any comparison is simply a lack of any large-scale implementation of their advances. None of Disney's competitors have anything comparable to Monster's Inc Laugh Floor or Kim Possible. They don't develop shows on the scale with Finding Nemo or World of Color. Around the holidays, they don't have anything comparable to the Osborne lights or the icicle-style lights on Cinderella Castle.

To use a baseball analogy, WWoHP is clearly a home run for US. Some of Disney's more recent attractions and enhancements are more singles and doubles.

But you can still score a lot of runs with singles and doubles.

There's no shortage of innovation at Disney. They simply need to open up the checkbook and start maximizing those advances--particularly in Florida.

 

[Figment632]

Agreed I will give you the interactive queue they did a wonderful job and Pooh. But their main problem is TDO has become lazy and cheap.

My main problems with WDW

1 IMO Future World is a mess
2 TL is a complete disaster
3 Cheapness any proof you need of this see the state of the Yeti
4. Merchandise has become disgustingly generic.

 

[Dznefreek]

None of Disney's competitors have anything comparable to Monster's Inc Laugh Floor or Kim Possible.

and I for one am happy about that. . . . . . . . . . .meaning, I think they are just awful. . . . .

 

[Figment632]

and I for one am happy about that. . . . . . . . . . .

Well **** is an nice little Bticket but it doesn't fit in TL so there is a problem.

 

[CapnZach]

Having a successful expansion does not tilt the balance of power, unless you mean something else by being #1. To me #1 is determined by market share and mind share. I don't see Universal approaching to compete on any of these levels, but that does not in any way deny the amazing success of Potter. Potter is a true milestone, not just the ride, but the thematic design of the environment, the effort put into the gift shops, food, etc. Universal set the bar very, very high. I know Disney can do the same if they wish.

As for innovations, the new advancements in interactivity, 'next gen' experiences, auto-animatronic advancements (despite Yeti breaking, he is amazing, as is the Stitch figure), and so on. Disney's only problem is that management seems to think Orlando is mostly fine, and are spending most of their attention and money on Anaheim and Asia. Hopefully Potter, and future Uni enhancements, can change that. And just because nothing is being done right this second (that you know of), does NOT mean they are not responding.

Another nugget Marni dropped they you didn't mention: according to him, Uni has already made their original budget back from food/merch/tickets. This is a bold claim but if true, wow. I wonder if Everest could claim the same?

 

[ChrisFL]

Another nugget Marni dropped they you didn't mention: according to him, Uni has already made their original budget back from food/merch/tickets. This is a bold claim but if true, wow. I wonder if Everest could claim the same?

Hmm, that's a good question. I actually haven't seen the difference in attenance numbers at AK since before Everest was built vs. after. I wonder if it jumped a bit, OR if it just kept guests in the park longer each day

 

[TisBit]

And just because nothing is being done right this second (that you know of), does NOT mean they are not responding.

It would actually be horrible on two points if Disney rushed a response.

1. It would concede to Universal that Potter was competition and needed a response

2. And most importantly, if they slapped something together to put it out there it wouldn't be great or innovative.

The best response Disney can have is to let the Potter hype die down, in a year or two be bringing online something big and amazing which will pull back many of those guests.

There are a great number of people out there that don't really care about the theme or the park but are merely going to the newest, latest and greatest thing.

 

[Figment632]

It would actually be horrible on two points if Disney rushed a response.

1. It would concede to Universal that Potter was competition and needed a response

2. And most importantly, if they slapped something together to put it out there it wouldn't be great or innovative.

The best response Disney can have is to let the Potter hype die down, in a year or two be bringing online something big and amazing which will pull back many of those guests.

There are a great number of people out there that don't really care about th theme or the park but are merely going to the newest, latest and greatestthing.

Ok hype dies down in a year like you say and the they get it right back when HP phase2, JP phase 2, and the expansion if the old park

 

[TisBit]

Ok hype dies down in a year like you say and the they get it right back when HP phase2, JP phase 2, and the expansion if the old park

They CAN get it back....that is the key, to keep things fresh and entertaining. Something to continue to draw people back. Honestly, WDW has always done a much better job at doing this long term than Universal. There is usually something new or redone at WDW every year or so. WDW usually adds a big attraction every few years with a redo in between to keep people interested. Think of the spacing with TSM, Soarin, Everest, Test Track....every 3 years or so they have been bringing a new larger scale ride online. In the middle fo those, they update and refresh.....even if it is queue's or parades, shows, fireworks, etc. Some of the bigger ones would be recently would be small world, space mountain and space ship earth. They don't have to completely redo something to keep people from coming back....they also do things like star tours, where the ride will be quasi-new, same basic concept, but compeltely redesigned and will feel like new.

Universal has historically had trouble committing long term to these types of principals. The studios haven't really seen anything new or really even been updated consistently. IoA has had some expansions and additions, but they have looked more at grand scale instead of the slow and steady approach. It is a difficult balancing act to maximize revenue and not gamble too much on improvements.....some investments just don't have a return (in the sense of increased attendance) but do help from decreasing your profits....a concept many accountants don't understand.

 

[tjkraz]

Well **** is an nice little Bticket but it doesn't fit in TL so there is a problem.

Meh. How much of a "problem" that represents is certainly debatable. If you want to compare/contrast Disney parks with US/IOA, you don't have to look far to find examples of theming misfits at the US parks. I'd start with RRR which doesn't really fit any of the locations it happens to wind through.

Hmm, that's a good question. I actually haven't seen the difference in attenance numbers at AK since before Everest was built vs. after. I wonder if it jumped a bit, OR if it just kept guests in the park longer each day

DAK attendance went up nearly 10% in the first full year of Everest and it's steadily climbed since. I believe it was at 8.2mil in 2005 and had risen to 9.7 mil by 2009.

Ok hype dies down in a year like you say and the they get it right back when HP phase2, JP phase 2, and the expansion if the old park

Expansion of the potter theme would certainly be popular but I have my reservations about other expansions. Prior to Potter, nearly everything that US/IOA added didn't cause much of a blip on the radar. Mummy...Shrek...Simpsons...RRR...all were flashy additions that didn't do much to propel the parks upward.

In fact, from 2008 to 2009 Universal saw a dramatic decline in attendance, from 6.2 million down to 5.4 million. That was despite the additions of Simpsons and RRR. The economy certainly didn't help but Disney managed slight increases over the same period with relatively modest additions.

Clearly many people love the Harry Potter additions. But I don't know that they feel the same affection for Jurassic Park (last film was garbage from 9 years ago) and other properties US has purchased. Nobody cared about those attractions/properties before HP so I'm not sure why they would draw additional guests after HP.

 

[ChrisFL]

Universal has historically had trouble committing long term to these types of principals. The studios haven't really seen anything new or really even been updated consistently. IoA has had some expansions and additions, but they have looked more at grand scale instead of the slow and steady approach. It is a difficult balancing act to maximize revenue and not gamble too much on improvements.....some investments just don't have a return (in the sense of increased attendance) but do help from decreasing your profits....a concept many accountants don't understand.

I disagree, there have been MANY slow scale changes at the studios park over the years

1996- T2:3D
1997- Herc & Xena opens
1998- Twister and Woody Woodpeckers' Kid Zone
1999- Woody's Nuthouse Coaster
2000 - MIB
2003 - Jimmy Neutron and Shrek
2004- Revenge of the Mummy
2005- Fear Factor Live
2007 - Blue Man Group
2008 - Disaster, Simpsons Ride
2009- Rip Ride Rockit

Now we can talk about whether all of these were quality changes, yes, but we could do the same for Disney also.

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Rip Ride Rocket opened with a lot of excitement but it failed to reverse the declines that impacted Uni because of the economy. What Harry Potter has done is bring many, many people to Universal that 1) had never been before and 2) had not been in years. And what people found was not only Harry Potter but also RRR, Mummy, Simpsons, Spiderman and Disaster. A lot of people found out that it's a pretty damn good set of theme parks. So that is how Uni is drawing 1-2 days of a one week trip away from Disney.....as well as from Sea World.

Fear Factor is history and Blue Man Group is a separately ticketed event not really part of the theme park.

BobK/Orlando

 

[Oglet]

Im thinking that attendance wise It isn't going to impact Disney all that much when looking at overall numbers, sure a few people might cut a trip a day or two short but It's not going to make a huge difference in regard to Disney although I am sure they would rather see no one cut Disney days from their plans.

I think the recent news about Seaworld shows that they have been hit hard by attendance. Seems to me that many people who would have ventured off Disney property to Seaworld and Universal have probably decided to skip Seaworld and do a 2 day 2 park pass for Universal.

 

[tjkraz]

Rip Ride Rocket opened with a lot of excitement but it failed to reverse the declines that impacted Uni because of the economy.

Of course, Disney parks were operating in the same economy and yet saw no such declines.

What Harry Potter has done is bring many, many people to Universal that 1) had never been before and 2) had not been in years. And what people found was not only Harry Potter but also RRR, Mummy, Simpsons, Spiderman and Disaster. A lot of people found out that it's a pretty damn good set of theme parks.

That remains to be seen. I found it interesting that none of the stories about US' attendance gains mentioned the two parks individually. While we've all heard the stories of hour-long waits for WWoHP (numbers mirrored on a daily basis at Toy Story Mania, Soarin, Test Track, etc.), I haven't seen anything which suggests those crowds have followed over to Disaster or Men in Black.

So that is how Uni is drawing 1-2 days of a one week trip away from Disney.....

That reasoning doesn't exactly add up since Disney has not seen any declines in attendance.

The most likely result is that the two parks are feeding one another. Some guests are coming to town for the Disney parks and spending a day or two at US/IOA. Others are coming to town for US/IOA and spending a day or two (or five) at the Disney parks.

I truly do respect what US has done with the Harry Potter development. It's clearly exactly what they needed. And it's easy to criticize Disney for not having an equally flashy development in recent memory. I certainly HOPE that this lights a fire under the Disney execs.

At the same time, based upon my own 2009 visit to the US parks, I have little reason to believe that the adulation heaped upon WWoHP will translate to the rest of the operation. Under-staffed attractions, surly employees, too many "seasonal" attractions, tired old licensed properties (ET, Beetlejuice, Fear Factor, JP, Twister, etc), poor maintenance, often non-existent theming (imagine the uproar if Disney had done anything even remotely like RRR at one of its parks), too many simulator-based attractions, etc. I was embarrassed to have convinced my family to plan the 2-day visit. Nearly every aspect made Disney look light years better by comparison.

I can certainly see people hearing the hype about WWoHP and wanting to check it out to add some variety to recurring Disney trips. But with Disney's ticket prices heavily weighted toward longer stays (days 4+ are virtually free), it remains to be seen how many guests will consistently pay so much more for a US/IOA detour.