Magic Key Passes

[dieumeye]

We have local AP holders in this forum that plan extensive onsite stays at the GCH and spend a ton each time they go. We also have local AP holders on this forum who only get a free cup of hot water for their tea. I am not sure if folks who come here are representative.

The exact same thing is true of day ticket holders. There are some who plan extensive onsite stays and spend a ton. There are others who stay offsite, pack their lunch, and bring water bottles to fill at refill stations.

I’ve always said there are people that go and spend a ton, and there are people that go and try to spend as little as possible. Having an AP or a day ticket does not automatically put you into one of those categories.

Different guests spend differently, regardless of ticket type. And getting into a discussion about one type of ticket holder being more likely to spend a certain way than another type of ticket holder it’s just futile because, like you said, that’s data we will never have.

 

[MonocularVision]

Different guests spend differently, regardless of ticket type. And getting into a discussion about one type of ticket holder being more likely to spend a certain way than another type of ticket holder it’s just futile because, like you said, that’s data we will never have.

There’s speculative discussion on various topics all the time on this board. You are probably right though that this particular discussion is often unproductive and mainly folks trying to prove they are a “worthy” or “more worthy” Disneyland customer.

 

[dieumeye]

There’s speculative discussion on various topics all the time on this board. You are probably right though that this particular discussion is often unproductive and mainly folks trying to prove they are a “worthy” or “more worthy” Disneyland customer.

I was agreeing with you, and just adding that how much someone spends doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with what type of ticket they have.

Speculation isn’t the problem. It’s that there are some people (not you) who seem to be certain that anyone with an AP doesn’t spend money in the park, that APs are making the parks too crowded, that APs are ruining the experience for everyone else, etc. There’s no data to back any of that up, so it gets me riled up when people start assuming these things and/or stating them as fact.

 

[DLgal]

I was agreeing with you, and just adding that how much someone spends doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with what type of ticket they have.

Speculation isn’t the problem. It’s that there are some people (not you) who seem to be certain that anyone with an AP doesn’t spend money in the park, that APs are making the parks too crowded, that APs are ruining the experience for everyone else, etc. There’s no data to back any of that up, so it gets me riled up when people start assuming these things and/or stating them as fact.

I'd be happy to send receipts to anyone who wants proof that APs spend money in the parks.

We are well over the 5 figure mark in the last 12 months.

 

[IsleofDisney]

On that note I'd bet good money the top 10-15% of MK holders spend more than the bottom 85-90% combined.

Curious, what's the top 10-15% of MK holders?

 

[MonocularVision]

I was agreeing with you, and just adding that how much someone spends doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with what type of ticket they have.

Speculation isn’t the problem. It’s that there are some people (not you) who seem to be certain that anyone with an AP doesn’t spend money in the park, that APs are making the parks too crowded, that APs are ruining the experience for everyone else, etc. There’s no data to back any of that up, so it gets me riled up when people start assuming these things and/or stating them as fact.

Oh, gotcha. Yeah I agree with you entirely. Personally, I think on average AP holders probably spend less but 1. I don’t feel really confident, 2. It probably isn’t a large amount and 3. Doesn’t make APs the problem. Even though I don’t hold an AP anymore, I dislike the anti-AP sentiment.

Going back to fun speculation: I would love to see some sort of pass that gives me X number of visits. My wife and I would enjoy a “20” day pass with some reasonable blackouts for the right price.

 

[DontSpamMe]

Curious, what's the top 10-15% of MK holders?

Top percentage of money spent.

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

May I ask why this is moved to the Community Board? This thread is directly related to Disneyland ... whereas the description of the Community Board is, "A place for those who love Disneyland to talk about everything else under the golden sun." (Seems, in my read, that the thread fits the Disneyland forum and not Community??) Thank you for considering the request.

Sure.

The Disneyland Board is there for us to help each other plan trips to Disneyland. When the thread turns more into a discussion rather than planning I move the thread to the DL Community board so that the discussion can continue here, and leave the planning board more open to questions and other planning type topics.

The DL Community board is for topics that are not really planning threads. Some, or most, of those topics may be Disneyland-centric. The Disboards has a true Community Board for general topics.

 

[elenex]

My point was that the tickets have never been and never will be their primary money maker. It's the money spent in the parks and at the hotels. Even the most budget-minded customer will buy food, drinks, or merchandise once in a while, and without the AP that customer would not be in the park often enough to do that.

The need APs in some form just as much as they need regular tickets. They know this.

 

[PirateBrigade]

My point was that the tickets have never been and never will be their primary money maker. It's the money spent in the parks and at the hotels. Even the most budget-minded customer will buy food, drinks, or merchandise once in a while, and without the AP that customer would not be in the park often enough to do that.

The need APs in some form just as much as they need regular tickets. They know this.

Pre-2020, the problem was described as a "Monday-Friday" problem. Historically, it's been difficult filling the parks with ticketholders during weekdays and off season (like January-February, late September), and all of the passes used to reflect this--the venerable SoCal Select pass was such a pass (Monday-Thursday, I believe, in its last iteration).

I wonder, though, what the magic # of visits is within Disney's market research, that is at the top of the spend curve, so-to-speak. Rather, what is the optimum # of visits per user to extract the maximum revenue without providing additional visits to said user.

What makes the most sense to me for whatever new "AP Plus" program they concoct will have a set number of free days "good to go" (to steal a phrase from the Flex Pass of 2019), and do a hard limit of 10, 15, or 20 "gold pass" days that can go whenever in any given year.

I totally thought they would do this last year, given what was in those market research surveys put out in spring/early summer 2020, but I also believe they panicked and did not complete development on the true AP replacement until now.

 

[DLgal]

Pre-2020, the problem was described as a "Monday-Friday" problem. Historically, it's been difficult filling the parks with ticketholders during weekdays and off season (like January-February, late September), and all of the passes used to reflect this--the venerable SoCal Select pass was such a pass (Monday-Thursday, I believe, in its last iteration).

I wonder, though, what the magic # of visits is within Disney's market research, that is at the top of the spend curve, so-to-speak. Rather, what is the optimum # of visits per user to extract the maximum revenue without providing additional visits to said user.

What makes the most sense to me for whatever new "AP Plus" program they concoct will have a set number of free days "good to go" (to steal a phrase from the Flex Pass of 2019), and do a hard limit of 10, 15, or 20 "gold pass" days that can go whenever in any given year.

I totally thought they would do this last year, given what was in those market research surveys put out in spring/early summer 2020, but I also believe they panicked and did not complete development on the true AP replacement until now.

It is definitely a balancing act. They can't price passes TOO high or else they risk people not buying/renewing them or pulling back on in park spending to offset the high pass price. If they price them too low, they will sell too many to a demographic that can "afford them" but who may not return the favor with a high enough in park spend over a year's time.

I think it's less about how many visits and more about at what price and availability calendar do people feel they are getting enough VALUE to justify making multiple visits INCLUDING an in park spend of probably $50 per person, on average.

I have taken surveys recently where they ask how much I spent on food and merchandise as a MK holder on recent visits. They are trying to hone in on how to maximize guest spend while understanding that they can't just give away tickets.

Although, anyone who has played Roller Coaster Tycoon knows, you don't make the money on the admission price.

 

[dieumeye]

It is definitely a balancing act. They can't price passes TOO high or else they risk people not buying/renewing them or pulling back on in park spending to offset the high pass price. If they price them too low, they will sell too many to a demographic that can "afford them" but who may not return the favor with a high enough in park spend over a year's time.

I think it's less about how many visits and more about at what price and availability calendar do people feel they are getting enough VALUE to justify making multiple visits INCLUDING an in park spend of probably $50 per person, on average.

I have taken surveys recently where they ask how much I spent on food and merchandise as a MK holder on recent visits. They are trying to hone in on how to maximize guest spend while understanding that they can't just give away tickets.

Although, anyone who has played Roller Coaster Tycoon knows, you don't make the money on the admission price.

One solution to this problem is to do what a lot of country clubs do. Charge a price for a membership plus a “minimum spend.”

For example, at a relative’s club, they have a minimum spend of $500 every so often (quarter? 6 mos?). When they spend money at the club it just “goes on their tab” and then they get a bill for however much they spent. And if they didn’t spend at least $500, they get a bill for $500 anyway.

It’s a way they could keep the base cost of the passes low (maybe even lower the base cost) while encouraging in-park spending. So they don’t need to balance those costs.

Now, I’m sure people would HATE this and I’m sure they’d NEVER do it, but it is a solution to that problem. How else do you offer a low cost pass to get people in the park, but also ensure those people are actually spending money in the park?

Also, yes, Roller Coaster Tycoon. I mean, if you bought a Dream Key and literally went every day of the year you’d only be paying about $4 to $5 for each admission!

 

[bwvBound]

Sure.

The Disneyland Board is there for us to help each other plan trips to Disneyland. When the thread turns more into a discussion rather than planning I move the thread to the DL Community board so that the discussion can continue here, and leave the planning board more open to questions and other planning type topics.

The DL Community board is for topics that are not really planning threads. Some, or most, of those topics may be Disneyland-centric. The Disboards has a true Community Board for general topics.

Thank you for the reasoning behind the action!

 

[bwvBound]

One solution to this problem is to do what a lot of country clubs do. Charge a price for a membership plus a “minimum spend.”

For example, at a relative’s club, they have a minimum spend of $500 every so often (quarter? 6 mos?). When they spend money at the club it just “goes on their tab” and then they get a bill for however much they spent. And if they didn’t spend at least $500, they get a bill for $500 anyway.

It’s a way they could keep the base cost of the passes low (maybe even lower the base cost) while encouraging in-park spending. So they don’t need to balance those costs.

Now, I’m sure people would HATE this and I’m sure they’d NEVER do it, but it is a solution to that problem. How else do you offer a low cost pass to get people in the park, but also ensure those people are actually spending money in the park?

Also, yes, Roller Coaster Tycoon. I mean, if you bought a Dream Key and literally went every day of the year you’d only be paying about $4 to $5 for each admission!

Hmmmm, DLR park entrance as a Country Club model. Isn't that where Club 33 fits into the picture?

FWIW, as I respond to the survey question that asks for all my Disney affiliations ... I already feel like my various "customer relationship" angles could/should be bundled together into a type of higher-tier club. A Country Club model might fit very well for those with DVC, park APs, repeat DCL or ABD, D23, D+, etc.

 

[foolish_mortals]

Disney wants a pass that everyone buys but only the right amount of people use it per day; which is what they tried with reservations. They absolutely have data on which tiers were spending the most with those “handy” discounts they tie your pass with how much money you spend. That’s why each tier had different buckets of availability.

If they could get away with it they would make a pass something like this

• Everyone has to pay in full
• A monthly fee to substitute for the food and drink they should be buying (this isn’t a credit, just a fee)
• No discounts on anything
• No free parking
• Every hour you’re in the park you have to use the app to pay a per person occupancy fee
• Oh and the app also costs $1/minute to use

 

[DLgal]

The pressure seems to be building for Disney to address this issue.

 

[DiznyDiva]

Did anyone notice, or maybe it's been that way for a while, but the descriptions for the passes are different. very clearly now saying they ARE reservation based and just because you have a key it doesn't mean you get entrance.... The main pass page is blank now.

 

[DLgal]

Did anyone notice, or maybe it's been that way for a while, but the descriptions for the passes are different. very clearly now saying they ARE reservation based and just because you have a key it doesn't mean you get entrance.... The main pass page is blank now.

I can still access the main pass page. Shows only the top 3 passes with "currently unavailable."

 

[Wesley815]

The pressure seems to be building for Disney to address this issue.

I’ve noticed large number of comments to their social media posts too…. If they let 8/25 pass in silence I’m sure it will really go crazy.

 

[DontSpamMe]

Well, they’ve been selling an annual pass to Disneyland since the 1980s. I’d say that’s fairly good proof that they are OK with selling annual passes.

Sounds well and good, but if you think Disney is the same company today as then you're nuts. Disney is a global company with massive influence today.

As for the spending argument; day ticket guests absolutely spend more than AP holders per capita. I'm not sure why some take that so personally.