Lying.. Food for thought.. Long.. Curious..

[C.Ann]

Spent most of today continuing on with my Amish research and once I developed a pretty good case of writer's cramp, I decided to spend the rest of the day - and evening - reading..

The book I read was fiction - but I won't mention the title in case someone here is reading it and the "food for thought" part would give away the ending of the story..

Basically - what happened in this book - is that someone was lying - from beginning to just very shortly before the end.. However, the lying was done by "omission".. The questions that would have required this person to come forth with information were never asked - therefore never answered - nor did the person volunteer the information..

So - do you think there's a difference between telling a lie outright and lying by "omission"? Is one worse than the other? Is one acceptable, but not the other? Should a "lie" receive equal punishment - when one is actually stated, verbally - and the other is a silent omission of fact?

Two extremely simplified examples would be:

Your DH grumbles and gets grouchy and goes on and on every time you go to - let's say Sears - because he thinks you're wasting money on clothes or shoes or whatever - that you don't really need.. (No issues in regards to being financially strapped - he's just extremely practical..)

Well - today you went grocery shopping - and to Sears.. You purchased a blouse at Sears that you really liked and it was on sale to boot.. DH comes home from work - says he tried to call you - got no answer - and asks, "Where did you go today?" You don't want to listen to the grumbling (and yet another long-winded lecture) so you reply, "I ran out for awhile and went to the grocery store.."

"Lie" by omission?

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Second scenario.. DD is getting ready for bed.. You ask her if she finished all her homework and she says yes - not mentioning that she has a project due in 2 weeks that she "could" have worked on for a bit, but chose not to..

Did your DD "lie" to you - or is it a "lie by omission"?

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What do you think? If a specific question isn't put forth - that would require either telling the truth or not (very black and white) - is the omission in the same category as flat out lying?

Just curious as to what people think.. It happens quite often when I'm in full-blown "reading mode" - devouring books left and right.. Too bad there aren't any book discussion groups around here.. Instead I have to pose my questions to people who may not even give a hoot..

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wife lied by omission. She failed to include her visit to the store and hid her purchase.

Child did not. May have made a poor choice, but didn't lie if there was nothing associated with her project due the next day.

 

[C.Ann]

Wife lied by omission. She failed to include her visit to the store and hid her purchase.

Child did not. May have made a poor choice, but didn't lie if there was nothing associated with her project due the next day.

Is one worse than the other - omission or flat out lying?

And I have to edit the homework one - didn't mean to say "tomorrow" - just "homework"..

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Is one worse than the other - omission or flat out lying?

And I have to edit the homework one - didn't mean to say "tomorrow" - just "homework"..

Depends on the ommission and if the intent is to deceive.

I would not consider a student or any person for that matter with a project that doesn't need to be completed for weeks to have lied or lied by ommission if they say they finished homework/housework/hardworking etc.

But yes---I do believe that for some omissions as in the wife example--it is lying.

And to clear it up...I am talking about conscious omissions of dishonest things. The person makes a choice to not communicate something. It is nothing more than a cover up and is just as deceitful as the act of lying. Like a friend knows your SO is cheating, but doesn't tell you. Just as bad as if you asked them and they said no.

YMMV--not everyone agrees with that. I have just had too many things "omitted" in my life to look favorably upon someone who choose not to convey something dishonest. Of course there are dishonest things that aren't a big deal (taking a cookie) and those that are. So that is another area where YMMV.

 

[bumbershoot]

I think those are by lying by omission.

And I think that that can be one of the more frustrating types of lies. Partially b/c they make you think you're crazy. Also because that sort of nonsense will pretty much always come out, which makes reactions far stronger than if they'd just told the truth.

Of course, flat out lying causes big reactions, but without the crazy-making feeling (b/c if you know someone well enough, you probably can sense when they are saying words that are lies to you, but maybe not so easily if they are NOT saying words, see what I mean?).

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

While I think the first one is kind of dishonest, I also think that husband sounds like a controlling jerk, and got what he deserved. I think that if you monitor someone, especially an adult's, every move and go "on and on" when they do something as simple as buying a blouse, at a reasonably priced store, that's on sale and they can afford, then you deserve to be lied to.

In the second case, I don't think the child lied. At any given point a child usually has some kind of project coming up. If the question "did you finish all your homework?" means "are all projects due in the distant future finished?", then the answer would always be no. To me that question is "did you finish everything due tomorrow, and are you comfortable with where you are on long term assignments?"

 

[Keli]

I don't feel like I have an obligation to answer every question fully that is presented to me. For example, I am facing some medical procedures in the very near future. I don't wish to explain to my co-workers everything I am having done and why. But one woman is asking me questions. Not for any malicious reason I'm sure, she's just interested.
But I don't feel like sharing the details. I have no idea why, it just makes me uncomfortable at this time. So I'm telling the bare necessities. I'm hoping she'll realize I'm not revealing most of my situation and quit asking.
I think for it to be lying your intent must be to deceive someone. I am not wanting to deceive, I just don't feel like talking about it right now and I don't want to be rude and say that outright.
I think intent is the necessary ingredient for deception/lying.

 

[C.Ann]

I don't feel like I have an obligation to answer every question fully that is presented to me. For example, I am facing some medical procedures in the very near future. I don't wish to explain to my co-workers everything I am having done and why. But one woman is asking me questions. Not for any malicious reason I'm sure, she's just interested.
But I don't feel like sharing the details. I have no idea why, it just makes me uncomfortable at this time. So I'm telling the bare necessities. I'm hoping she'll realize I'm not revealing most of my situation and quit asking.
I think for it to be lying your intent must be to deceive someone. I am not wanting to deceive, I just don't feel like talking about it right now and I don't want to be rude and say that outright.
I think intent is the necessary ingredient for deception/lying.

This!!! You really zeroed in on the concept of the what I was asking..

Your example is much, much better than the ones that I used..

I have always been very "black and white" when it comes to lying - either you are or you aren't - but I have to say that this book really gave me reason to pause and look at certain situations in a different light..

You are very, very perceptive..

Whatever your medical situation is, I hope it all works out well..