Love to Hate Disney?

[socrateze]

I don't think it was wasted but it really wasn't necessary at the time. Disney was going to have to update their systems at some point and that would cost a lot of money anyways. They obviously took it a little farther. They connected everything under one system essentially. The magicband concept in my opinion is very good one thing for everything, room key, FP, park ticket, dining credits, etc. Now where people would start to get upset and say it was wasted was in FP+. The FP system was changed dramatically when it really didn't need to be. Then you also have the problem of Disney spending that money and their websites and apps still lagging, crashing and not working

IMO they just moved stuff from the KTTWC to a bracelet. The exception is memory maker and they could've put an RFID in a trading pin for this. Yesterday, a friend of mine was on the website for an hour trying to purchase tickets to DL's Halloween party. After she his submit the spinning wheel just kept going. This is what is so aggravating. IMO MDE shouldn't have been implemented until they improved their website operations. There's really no excuse for this. I think their new slogan should be " Because we're Disney and we can!" Below the slogan there should be a picture of Mickey blowing a raspberry.

Lower labor requirements/redundancy...reducing outlays

I do think Disney is trying to right size their staff. For 2 years now, I have seen posts where there are fewer FP+'s available in Sept. and Oct.. Last fall, I read numerous reports where the attraction lines were long, but the crowds weren't any larger.

These things lead me to suspect that Disney is going to turn every day into a level 7.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Yea the only 2 families we know in Orlando also love FP+. That doesn't mean more or most locals hate it I guess. But the reasoning seemed to make sense. They have done the parks so many times that a commando day is long gone. They tend do after work visits, dinner and night show things. FP+ really improved those visits.

I have to say, I was surprised, but it does seem that the Orlando locals like FP+, at least from what I gather on this board and other blogs/podcasts. Which makes perfect sense when you think about it, for the reasons you mentioned. That's why, even if they do bring it to Disneyland, I think it will be accepted and liked by many local folks there too. The tourists on the other hand, probably not as much!

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I have to say, I was surprised, but it does seem that the Orlando locals like FP+, at least from what I gather on this board and other blogs/podcasts. Which makes perfect sense when you think about it, for the reasons you mentioned. That's why, even if they do bring it to Disneyland, I think it will be accepted and liked by many local folks there too. The tourists on the other hand, probably not as much!

They have actually said its the biggest improvement ever for them. Actually would not trade FP+ for the expansions they are doing. Obviously getting both is ideal.

 

[Eoghann]

Part of this is an expectations thing.

I think many of the most critical people expect Disney to go above and beyond with no expenses spared. That is what Walt Disney would have done certainly. But this isn't that company any more and I have no such expectations. Disney like all public companies is run to make the shareholders happy.

I make a simple calculation, do I enjoy WDW enough that I'm okay paying for it. If the answer is yes, I go. If it's no... well then I'll stop going. I don't really understand why people take it so personally, but they do.

In the case of MM+ it was absolutely about maximizing traffic and revenue, but it had the side effect of making my last trip substantially more enjoyable. So I'll call that good regardless of what Disney wanted out of it.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

In the case of MM+ it was absolutely about maximizing traffic and revenue, but it had the side effect of making my last trip substantially more enjoyable. So I'll call that good regardless of what Disney wanted out of it.

Yep, my local friends can't wait for an AK evening now, esp with FP+.

Even if the create tiers it will be much better than it would have been.

Hitting AK after work with Banshee/Boat ride/EE as minimal waits (instead of probably 2 hours ea) then Yak&Yeti or Tusker dinner followed by Rivers of Light.

Even with tiers they can alternate visits. Maybe Banshee/Safari/LK, then Boat/EE/Dino etc.

Regardless this is opening up a whole new evening option they are very excited about.

Again-making the AP renewal a sure thing for them.

 

[ColoradoDreamin]

I just found this site, and I hadn't even finished reading this thread and felt compelled to reply. I probably should have read more before doing so, but it just got me thinking (I was only done the first couple pages when I hit reply...)

While it is true I am one of those that love Disney, and probably think they can do no wrong (although I am a pretty critical person). But I will say I don't agree with what many say that Disney has lost its way (in not those exact terms). To me, I think many have put Disney up so high, and remember something that is impossible to live up to, that they have become extremely critical of anything they might see. I saw one post early in this thread talking about how they remember when you couldn't find a piece of trash anywhere in the park, but on a recent trip he saw the same piece of trash for over a week. I just made a recent trip to Disney, and I am still amazed at how little to not trash you see. We were walking down the main road near our hotel, and I had said this to my family, and we started looking everywhere for a piece of trash. We found one piece, we were kind of amazed we found it, but it is still more remarkable that there was only one. But no matter how much anybody tries, there is still something that can slip through. I am still amazed at how great nearly every staff member is, never have I met a staff as nice as them. Sure even I have run across a bad one. There is no way to make a perfect world. For some, when they find that one, it suddenly means the Disney experience has changed and it will no longer be. Just last night a friend (who actually visits Disney 4 to 5 times a year, despite living 800 miles away) was telling me about an experience not like Disney. He said it was hit worst experience ever at Disney or with a Disney staff member. it was going out to eat at a restaurant, and was treated very poorly by the host. He ended up complaining, and what did Disney do - they ended up not charging him for his drinks all night. He said he will go back to that restaurant, he loves that restaurant. One bad host doesn't define the restaurant or Disney. But for some, that one bad experience suddenly ruins everything. They start seeing the negativity in everything.

One other experience at my last trip makes me say that the Disney Magic is not gone (and when I say Disney magic, I mean the way 'things used to be"). On that last visit this spring we stopped in a little bakery. Me and my girlfriend ordered some cookies to share. The staff was friendly, but pretty typical for Disney. As we got to the register, I go to pay, and the person that got our cookies hands me the bag and says "It's on the Mouse". I was kind of confused at first (in fact, at first I thought my mother had paid as she was ahead of us in line and had paid and left already), but after leaving and telling the rest of my family about it, I came to realize it was not my mother. The "mouse" was in fact Mickey. Later in the trip, my mother had left a soda outside a ride she was getting on. When she got out, a Disney staff member had already gotten to it and thrown it away (this happened a couple times to my mother...she tries to hide them, but not always so well). She went to a store to get a soda, and the same thing happened to her. When she went to pay they said "It's on the mouse". Having already heard my story she knew what it meant. We were amazed by this.

Point is, Disney is still and always will be making magical things happen. I think some are just extremely critical at anything they find because they put Disney at such a high level. To me they are exceeding expectations each and every time.

As for prices, and their rise. That has little to do with Disney and everything to do with Supply and Demand. Moreover, while you see the stockholders as old men making millions, that is not just who they are. A lot of Disney lovers have the stock as well. Moreover, if Disney were to lower prices, do you know what that would do? It would cause a lot of those stock holders to sell, and as a result Disney's stock would go down. As the value of Disney's stock goes down, as does the value of the company, making it less possible to do all the things they do. They have their hands in a lot of things. Just take a look at all the things possible that Disney is working on...rumors of new lands, new parks, new rides, new cruise ships, new movies, sequels, prequels, and the list goes on. The price and value of the stock is a huge reason Disney can do so much. So while their stocks may result in a higher price, they are also what drive the growth as well. And that leads me to my last point (by now I probably have little reading...), once again think about all these projects Disney is working on. While many think that Disney can do anything and everything they want, their is a limit. Disney always wants to do everything right, and carefully. To rush through any project would not be the Disney way. With so many projects they have, it is impossible to imagine each of these being done at the speed we expect a single project to be done. We live in a world now (stupid internet) where we expect everything now and right away. I don't know the numbers, but even if projects are taking longer to complete now then they did 20 years ago (which I doubt) 20 years ago Disney's net wasn't so vast. If they had 20 project 20 years ago, they might have 2,000 projects today. The reason Disney is such an amazing company is that they have been brilliant in making sure that they don't move too quickly as to diminish the product. And before you start pointing to the flaws in projects that they have completed, realize how critical you are being. Compare those same products to that of other companies. And compare apples to apples. Don't compare Universal's studios #1 product with an average one for Disney.

Ok, I have said far too much, especially when I didn't even finish the thread!!

 

[Andrew015]

I think many of the most critical people expect Disney to go above and beyond with no expenses spared. That is what Walt Disney would have done certainly. But this isn't that company any more and I have no such expectations. Disney like all public companies is run to make the shareholders happy.

Most of us "get" the entire premise that Disney is a business that is driven to make profits, and in turn, drive up their stock price. I think that goes without saying and has never been part of the debate.

I make a simple calculation, do I enjoy WDW enough that I'm okay paying for it. If the answer is yes, I go. If it's no... well then I'll stop going.

Even as a labeled critical, "negative Nellie", I make the same calculation as you do, and as of the present, I still get the same answer. While I still find personal satisfaction in going, the overall value proposition continues to go in the wrong direction with each and every (annual) price increase. At some point, the equation is going to come up with a different answer unless there is a material change in direction.

I don't really understand why people take it so personally, but they do.

It's not a matter of taking anything personally. Passionately might have been a better choice of words. We're passionate because contrary to popular belief, we actually do love WDW and we're not enamored with the current direction. When you see something that you're passionate about go further and further in the wrong direction, it's difficult not to express those frustrations.

 

[Planogirl]

I still find great value in going. I don't necessarily visit all of the parks though so if the value isn't there in only parts of WDW then those are easy to skip.

 

[Andrew015]

I still find great value in going. I don't necessarily visit all of the parks though so if the value isn't there in only parts of WDW then those are easy to skip.

Agreed with the exception of "great value".

 

[LaidBackDad]

As for prices, and their rise. That has little to do with Disney and everything to do with Supply and Demand. Moreover, while you see the stockholders as old men making millions, that is not just who they are. A lot of Disney lovers have the stock as well. Moreover, if Disney were to lower prices, do you know what that would do? It would cause a lot of those stock holders to sell, and as a result Disney's stock would go down. As the value of Disney's stock goes down, as does the value of the company, making it less possible to do all the things they do. They have their hands in a lot of things. Just take a look at all the things possible that Disney is working on...rumors of new lands, new parks, new rides, new cruise ships, new movies, sequels, prequels, and the list goes on. The price and value of the stock is a huge reason Disney can do so much. So while their stocks may result in a higher price, they are also what drive the growth as well. And that leads me to my last point (by now I probably have little reading...), once again think about all these projects Disney is working on. While many think that Disney can do anything and everything they want, their is a limit. Disney always wants to do everything right, and carefully. To rush through any project would not be the Disney way. With so many projects they have, it is impossible to imagine each of these being done at the speed we expect a single project to be done. We live in a world now (stupid internet) where we expect everything now and right away. I don't know the numbers, but even if projects are taking longer to complete now then they did 20 years ago (which I doubt) 20 years ago Disney's net wasn't so vast. If they had 20 project 20 years ago, they might have 2,000 projects today. The reason Disney is such an amazing company is that they have been brilliant in making sure that they don't move too quickly as to diminish the product. And before you start pointing to the flaws in projects that they have completed, realize how critical you are being. Compare those same products to that of other companies. And compare apples to apples. Don't compare Universal's studios #1 product with an average one for Disney.

Ok, I have said far too much, especially when I didn't even finish the thread!!

Everyone likes good news and praise when it comes to things we are passionate about. Accepting bad news or criticism of things we like is a lot harder. A lot of the "hate" I read on these boards comes from fair criticism of WDW by one fan and another fan perceiving it as a personal attack against one of their favorite places in the world. Things then go downhill quickly. While some people may not like reading negative comments about WDW; it is equally as frustrating reading post that try to justify price gouging and decline in the value of goods and services at WDW. Disney is not a small business and WDW is only small part of it. Iger passing gas at an inopportune time has more of an effect on stock prices than raising or lowering of gate prices. Additional monies generated by increased prices are more likely to be passed on in the form of executive compensation, or increased advertising budgets than to be re-invested back into the parks. Supply and demand doesn't explain lower occupancy rates at the deluxe hotels or DVC.

 

[Eoghann]

Most of us "get" the entire premise that Disney is a business that is driven to make profits, and in turn, drive up their stock price. I think that goes without saying and has never been part of the debate.

I disagree. There's plenty of cases where people complain how this isn't what Disney used to be or what Walt would have done. They may know it's different, but they don't like it and don't accept it. I'm talking in aggregate here, not specifically commenting on your posts.

Even as a labeled critical, "negative Nellie", I make the same calculation as you do, and as of the present, I still get the same answer. While I still find personal satisfaction in going, the overall value proposition continues to go in the wrong direction with each and every (annual) price increase. At some point, the equation is going to come up with a different answer unless there is a material change in direction.

And if it does it does. My life will continue just fine one way or the other. This is where I part ways with the more vehement posters on here and elsewhere. I observe it mostly dispassionately. I can see what they're doing. I get why they are doing it. It is for the moment a viable strategy. Doesn't do me any favors, but they don't owe me any favors.

It's not a matter of taking anything personally. Passionately might have been a better choice of words. We're passionate because contrary to popular belief, we actually do love WDW and we're not enamored with the current direction. When you see something that you're passionate about go further and further in the wrong direction, it's difficult not to express those frustrations.

Again I disagree. The tone of many comments shows that it is personal. People feel let down. Rightly or wrongly they feel they have a stake or there is an implied promise that is not being met.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

I just found this site, and I hadn't even finished reading this thread and felt compelled to reply. I probably should have read more before doing so, but it just got me thinking (I was only done the first couple pages when I hit reply...)

While it is true I am one of those that love Disney, and probably think they can do no wrong (although I am a pretty critical person). But I will say I don't agree with what many say that Disney has lost its way (in not those exact terms). To me, I think many have put Disney up so high, and remember something that is impossible to live up to, that they have become extremely critical of anything they might see. I saw one post early in this thread talking about how they remember when you couldn't find a piece of trash anywhere in the park, but on a recent trip he saw the same piece of trash for over a week. I just made a recent trip to Disney, and I am still amazed at how little to not trash you see. We were walking down the main road near our hotel, and I had said this to my family, and we started looking everywhere for a piece of trash. We found one piece, we were kind of amazed we found it, but it is still more remarkable that there was only one. But no matter how much anybody tries, there is still something that can slip through. I am still amazed at how great nearly every staff member is, never have I met a staff as nice as them. Sure even I have run across a bad one. There is no way to make a perfect world. For some, when they find that one, it suddenly means the Disney experience has changed and it will no longer be. Just last night a friend (who actually visits Disney 4 to 5 times a year, despite living 800 miles away) was telling me about an experience not like Disney. He said it was hit worst experience ever at Disney or with a Disney staff member. it was going out to eat at a restaurant, and was treated very poorly by the host. He ended up complaining, and what did Disney do - they ended up not charging him for his drinks all night. He said he will go back to that restaurant, he loves that restaurant. One bad host doesn't define the restaurant or Disney. But for some, that one bad experience suddenly ruins everything. They start seeing the negativity in everything.

One other experience at my last trip makes me say that the Disney Magic is not gone (and when I say Disney magic, I mean the way 'things used to be"). On that last visit this spring we stopped in a little bakery. Me and my girlfriend ordered some cookies to share. The staff was friendly, but pretty typical for Disney. As we got to the register, I go to pay, and the person that got our cookies hands me the bag and says "It's on the Mouse". I was kind of confused at first (in fact, at first I thought my mother had paid as she was ahead of us in line and had paid and left already), but after leaving and telling the rest of my family about it, I came to realize it was not my mother. The "mouse" was in fact Mickey. Later in the trip, my mother had left a soda outside a ride she was getting on. When she got out, a Disney staff member had already gotten to it and thrown it away (this happened a couple times to my mother...she tries to hide them, but not always so well). She went to a store to get a soda, and the same thing happened to her. When she went to pay they said "It's on the mouse". Having already heard my story she knew what it meant. We were amazed by this.

Point is, Disney is still and always will be making magical things happen. I think some are just extremely critical at anything they find because they put Disney at such a high level. To me they are exceeding expectations each and every time.

As for prices, and their rise. That has little to do with Disney and everything to do with Supply and Demand. Moreover, while you see the stockholders as old men making millions, that is not just who they are. A lot of Disney lovers have the stock as well. Moreover, if Disney were to lower prices, do you know what that would do? It would cause a lot of those stock holders to sell, and as a result Disney's stock would go down. As the value of Disney's stock goes down, as does the value of the company, making it less possible to do all the things they do. They have their hands in a lot of things. Just take a look at all the things possible that Disney is working on...rumors of new lands, new parks, new rides, new cruise ships, new movies, sequels, prequels, and the list goes on. The price and value of the stock is a huge reason Disney can do so much. So while their stocks may result in a higher price, they are also what drive the growth as well. And that leads me to my last point (by now I probably have little reading...), once again think about all these projects Disney is working on. While many think that Disney can do anything and everything they want, their is a limit. Disney always wants to do everything right, and carefully. To rush through any project would not be the Disney way. With so many projects they have, it is impossible to imagine each of these being done at the speed we expect a single project to be done. We live in a world now (stupid internet) where we expect everything now and right away. I don't know the numbers, but even if projects are taking longer to complete now then they did 20 years ago (which I doubt) 20 years ago Disney's net wasn't so vast. If they had 20 project 20 years ago, they might have 2,000 projects today. The reason Disney is such an amazing company is that they have been brilliant in making sure that they don't move too quickly as to diminish the product. And before you start pointing to the flaws in projects that they have completed, realize how critical you are being. Compare those same products to that of other companies. And compare apples to apples. Don't compare Universal's studios #1 product with an average one for Disney.

Ok, I have said far too much, especially when I didn't even finish the thread!!

+1. Bravo!