LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Robo]

I will say that A&E is the only FP that I hear about where there seems to be such an overwhelming demand that you may need to be online at midnight to have a chance to "win that lottery".

No argument here. And TSMM was the only FP that became unavailable by 11:30 a.m.

I'm going to say that with the brand new (and really spectacular) Wishes FP viewing area(s,) the Wishes FP+ will be a MAJOR "must-have" at MK.

And, with that, a really big flaw is amplified in the current FP+ system.
If someone does manage to snag a Wishes FP+, (s)he won't be able to get but TWO other FP+ attractions for the entire day at MK.
Since Wishes will be at closing time, or within an hour (maybe two) of closing time, getting a 4th FP+ during the bulk of that day will not be possible.

 

[Hokie2000]

Person who has an 8:30 ADR is the same as the person who tries to book a headliner 30 days out with no tiering.
Crab legs (which are the most popular item at Cape May), can run out. People who dine early are in "all you care to eat" mode and can wipe out the supply. And it does happen. People with later ADRs are paying the same price for the buffet, and when they arrive, they find that there are no crab legs. They are not happy. People who dined earlier used up the supply. Same as FP without tiering. People with early booking windows would wipe out the supply of the most popular attractions. Disney now allocates Fast Passes. It could just as easily allocate crab legs. Yet people never seem to complain about the inequity of popular buffet items. They just accept their fate that if they dine late, they get what they get. These same people expect to walk into Epcot at 4:00 and get a FP for Soarin'.

Ok, I get the comparison between FPs and buffet crab legs. Here's what I don't get: you say that when the 8:30 family finds that the crab legs are gone that they're not happy. But then later you say that it seems nobody complains about the inequities of buffet items. Do you mean that while they're unhappy in the moment they aren't going to bother complaining about it b/c it's a fate to be accepted? If so I would say the same applied to FP-. One might be unhappy that all the FPs were gone for TSMM at 4 PM, but I think most people just accepted it as first-come first-served. That doesn't mean that they needn't be happy prebooking their 4 PM FP+ now.

 

[JimmyV]

However, does that mean that a company shouldn't try and improve on imperfect situations?

Certainly not. I just think they headed down the wrong path. FP- was egalitarian. If you bought admission to the park, when the sun rose that morning, each and every person had equal access to an opportunity to every single FP that Disney offered. Whether you got one or not was completely within your control. I am really big on personal control. Now, no one gets a FP for A&E (and let's be honest, as more and more people use the system, TSMM, 7DMT, Soarin', Avatar, Star Wars, Test Track are all going to fall in line here), unless they are on site guests. One of the big criticisms of FP- wasn't that it was failing. Instead, the criticism was that it had the potential to fail as more and more people used it. So too here. When "about half" graduates to 80%, the people with 30 day windows are going to get squatola. We're not there yet. But we will be. So whereas under FP-, every person had equal access to every FP opportunity when they woke up, FP+ presents us with a situation where people with 30 day windows will have zero chance at improving their lot. To the extent that FP+ is an "improvement", the 60/30 dichotomy was a very bad move, in my opinion. If two people pay an equal price for their admission ticket, they should be treated equally. And this comes from someone who has always stayed on site. So yes, I am arguing against my own self interest.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Sorry you found that. Is that universally true? What did you want, and what did you book?

LT is headed down in a week, has been looking at FP+ availability about 2-3 weeks in advance. I seem to recall him saying availability was pretty decent, outside of maybe A&E or TSMM? A week out now and it seems he's seeing less availability.

Disclaimer: I am not disputing that poster's experience! I am simply sharing what mine has been as a FL Res.

We have not found this to be the case for us. The only difficult to get fast passes in that lead time for us is Mine train, fireworks, and parades. The only impossible to get has been A&E. And this includes checking for 2 people at Christmas when all of the above I mentioned to from difficult to impossible.

Toy story is hit or miss. So hard to place it as difficult or not. But I am checking now for a Saturday 2-3 weeks from now and have found 3 times 3pm
Into the early evening for 6 people.





Now the last minute trips, day before and day of for example--those get a little more challenging. But that depends on what considers "good". At that point, we as Soarin and TT to the difficult or impossible to get list. Toy Story we have found mostly impossible. But we are looking for 6 people most of the time.

Everyone's experience will be different. And will be largely contingent on expectations.

 

[DisneyKidds]

You're going to dismiss 30 extra days to on site guests as a "nod"? Please. If we are going to have a real debate, don't destroy your credibility on that point. The new system favors a specific sub-class. The debate can be whether this is right or wrong, good or bad, fair or unfair. But let's not pretend that it is not a distinct advantage as opposed to a "nod".

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy......

Even as LT has borne out, even a few weeks in advance all but a handful of FP+ can be had. Sure, the extra 30 days that onsite guest have to make FP+ reservations might allow them to secure A&E or Wishes FPs........but since I, ME, personally don't want those, well, the extra 30 is not an advantage in any way!

(Note to self.....maybe I should start to embrace that logic, it makes 'making my point' easier!)

 

[flicx]

I think there is a big difference between with FP+ vs. FP- in that FP+ creates more availability to a large number of guests by rationing and tiering rides. There was very little of that in the old system.

How was there very little of that with the old system? You got one pass and either waited 2 hours to get another or when you used it grabbed another. That is a very effective rationing system. Of course you have to physically be in the park to use it. In my opinion all Disney needed to do was spend a little more on educating guests with the old system if they wanted it to be utilized more!

 

[JimmyV]

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy......

Even as LT has borne out, even a few weeks in advance all but a handful of FP+ can be had.

First, under FP- all but a handful of attractions had FP availability until an hour before the park closed. So this debate really rages only in respects to the "handful". If a handful are gone 31 days out, that is meaningful.

Second, we are still only in the "about half use it" stage. It is only going to go up from here. Increased usage coupled with no additional FP numbers equals what? An increase in the race for space. One used to be able to book CRT easily. Eventually, it became a game of "dialing for dollars" at 6:57 a.m. with multiple phones at the same time. It didn't start out that way. Same with TSMM. It wasn't a "running of the bulls" from the day it opened. It evolved into that. Word leaked that you had to grab your FP before noon. So people figured, "I'll get mine at 11:00". So to beat the system, you went at 10:30. And so on until RD was the final resting place (only because there was no where else to go). FP+ is still in its infancy. We must learn from history. As time marches forward, we are going to see more and more attractions sell out at the 31 day mark. We have to. What can possibly happen to move the meter in the other direction? And what would have to be done to lock today's experience in as the absolute final result? Time=more use=greater competition for the finite commodity=more aggressive bookers=faster evaporation. It has to be this way.

The warts cannot clear up organically. The CRT situation never resolved itself. It just moved to a mouse-click system rather than a dial-in system. But the ADRs were still gone in a flash. As for FPs, the warts clear up when Disney adds 7-10 more headliners, mostly in DHS and Epcot. Until then, the TSMM rush will continue on indefinitely.

 

[JimmyV]

I think most people just accepted it as first-come first-served

A concept we all learned in kindergarten. But apparently not good enough for amusement park crowd dynamics.

 

[cakebaker]

Come to think of it, if Fuzzy is correct and Tiers mean that because I can only pick one I'm contributing to someone else's enjoyment of the parks, then maybe Fuzzy would like to come along with me? Because I much prefer making my charitable contributions directly to the recipient rather than thru a third party.

You're not making the contribution. Disney is thru their policies. When you buy your ticket, you're agreeing to abide by their rules.

 

[JimmyV]

If you don't know what a nod is, then don't laugh at the use of the word. But since you're unfamiliar with it and earlier this morning you seemed to be concerned with arguing semantics- I'll just use a phrase that you can understand. They give a preference to on site guests. Right now, that huge advantage will give you a better chance of getting A&E and the Wishes FP. Other than that, 30 days is plenty of time. It's not the huge benefit it was in the beginning.
I don't dismiss that it works, but cheating and abuse are not valid strategies. It's no more a strategy than a how to on shoplifting is a strategy to save money.

Oh, I know what a "nod" is. It is a term used in the context of "recognition". Not preference. So now we've gone from:

I don't believe it favors anyone

to

They give a preference to on site guests.

That's an "improvement".

 

[cakebaker]

A concept we all learned in kindergarten. But apparently not good enough for amusement park crowd dynamics.

It's still first come, first serve- only now it's online instead of in person. Once your in the park, it's first come first serve at the kiosks.

 

[SmithSmith]

Can someone refresh my memory... which report showed that FP+ usage was at 50%?

 

[JimmyV]

It's still first come, first serve- only now it's online instead of in person.

Except over half of all guests are not allowed to get in line...on line...at the same time. This obliterates every concept of "first come first served" that I know of. It is really, "certain people are allowed to queue up virtually, and among that group, it is first come first served. Sort of. I have no idea how the computers actually work on Disney's end. When 5,000 people hit the "Enter" button at exactly the same time, what happens?

 

[Cyrano]

This thread is no longer assisting folks with trip planning. Off to TP Community with you

 

[JimmyV]

Can someone refresh my memory... which report showed that FP+ usage was at 50%?

Orlando Sentinel, 12/25/14 among others.

Also, in terms of additional usage, we are being told here how under-used FP- was. So take a stab at how many guests per day used it. 25%? 40%? Here is something else Staggs said:

But the new system has accounted for a 50 percent increase in FastPass usage, Staggs said.

So 50% increase over 25%-40% prior usage would put the number at 37%-60%. Still a ways to go which will put further stress on the 30 day window.

 

[DisneyKidds]

First, under FP- all but a handful of attractions had FP availability until an hour before the park closed. So this debate really rages only in respects to the "handful". If a handful are gone 31 days out, that is meaningful.

Second, we are still only in the "about half use it" stage. It is only going to go up from here. Increased usage coupled with no additional FP numbers equals what? An increase in the race for space. One used to be able to book CRT easily. Eventually, it became a game of "dialing for dollars" at 6:57 a.m. with multiple phones at the same time. It didn't start out that way. Same with TSMM. It wasn't a "running of the bulls" from the say it opened. It evolved into that. FP+ is still in its infancy. We must learn from history. As time marches forward, we are going to see more and more attractions sell out at the 31 day mark. We have to. What can possibly

Except over half of all guests are not allowed to get in line...on line...at the same time. This obliterates every concept of "first come first served" that I know of. It is really, "certain people are allowed to queue up virtually, and among that group, it is first come first served. Sort of. I have no idea how the computers actually work on Disney's end. When 5,000 people hit the "Enter" button at exactly the same time, what happens?

Some people extol the virtues of Universal's Express Pass system to provide preference to guests of their on-site resorts. I suppose it is wrong of Disney to give preferential treatment to their on-site guests, the ones spending the most money, filling the beds, and fattening the bottom line? I guess you are anti-Extra Magic Hours as well?

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I don't believe it favors anyone- in that everyone can book 3 FP+ exactly the same. The only difference being the nod to on site guests getting a head start. That's Disney's choice if they want to give preference to those who choose to give them more of their vacation $$'s.
I'm sure strategies will develop, but there's no getting around only booking 3 advance. Knowing the best rides and when you get the best advantages by booking them is something people already are discovering on their own. For those that don't want to work at figuring it out, no doubt there will be sites that can help them. That's completely different from depleting the supply so you can ride TOT 5 times in a row at night.

I don't consider the practice of booking dummy reservations to be a strategy, and in particular the practice of booking a fake reservation, using fake names, collecting the perks and then not paying for the reservation. I'm confident Disney will eventually stop that if it becomes enough of a problem as they will the practice of using bags full of bands for sdfp. But those are not strategies.

It also favors those that plan far in advance over those that can't or won't.

 

[DISNEYSC]

My family loves it! I can't claim we have any special strategy for making it work but it seems that we get more done and enjoy our time in the parks more than with the old paper tickets.

To us it also seems that it has reduced the anxiety during our trips. Maybe it was me bringing the anxiety to the mix but since we always tried to max out our time in the parks- I was constantly running from one attraction to the other or worrying how to get more passes in. It seems that we get on all the attractions we want to do at a much more enjoyable pace.

So- count us in the minority- we love it!

 

[cakebaker]

Oh, I know what a "nod" is. It is a term used in the context of "recognition". Not preference. But now you concede that the on site group gets a "preference". So we are getting somewhere.

Since you said:

"I'm not even sure I know what a "nod" is."

I think it's understandable that I thought you weren't sure what a nod was.


"give someone/something the nod : Select or approve someone or something"
"to choose someone. (see also get the nod.) The committee gave Frank the nod for the job."


I don't have to concede anything- Giving a nod to someone or something or some group can also mean giving something to someone. It can mean giving a preference to as you can see. Nit picking gets irritating Jimmy. I've never denied on site guests get a preference.

 

[cakebaker]

My family loves it! I can't claim we have any special strategy for making it work but it seems that we get more done and enjoy our time in the parks more than with the old paper tickets.

To us it also seems that it has reduced the anxiety during our trips. Maybe it was me bringing the anxiety to the mix but since we always tried to max out our time in the parks- I was constantly running from one attraction to the other or worrying how to get more passes in. It seems that we get on all the attractions we want to do at a much more enjoyable pace.

So- count us in the minority- we love it!

Don't count on being in the minority- except here on the Dis. Glad you're enjoying it as much as we do!