LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I agree. I think that it is irrefutable that one fares better in park #2 under FP+. So has all of this just become about hopping? If a FP+ person spends only the afternoon in Epcot with FPs all lined up, they do OK. They get a FP for Soarin' and a 90 minute wait for TT. The FP- person who hops to Epcot probably gets a 90 minute wait at both. But the FP+ person who shows up at Epcot at 10:00 gets a FP for one and a 90 minute wait for the other, and the FP- person gets a FP for both. Different touring styles. Different results. It is hard to make the point that FP+ is superior. It is superior under certain conditions.

No--not all about hopping. Took that track she it seems you misunderstood the guest's plans in their cited example.

As stated--it works for those who want a relaxed morning and just show up late--take the midday break, or whatever.

It removes variables and inserts the ability to control your schedule.

Ride breakdowns are moot as they happened under paper where you could NOT just use that FP on another ride.

Weather is almost moot--really depends on severity, ride closure and individual tolerance to conditions.

We did couple of late days at EPCOT--didn't encounter a 90 minute wait at TT. YMMV. But for every SB example, someone may have a different experience.

But for a LATE arrival at EPCOT per your choice to cite that--the chances of having ANY FP for Soarin' are moot.

Present wait times are 60 for Soarin and 45 for TT with a single rider option.

One thing you continue to fail to add as a variable is that you must wait TWO hours to pull a second FP or until the window expires whichever occurs first.

So if you arrive at 10am on a busy day--you cannot pull another pass until noon.

And if you had a lunch or dinner ADR, that is another variable in the "what time will my pass be" game.

While I cannot say one FP is superior to the other for any guest. Neither can you.

 

[JimmyV]

We missed riding SDMT because the FP return time was past noon.

Don't call me a liar please, it does nothing to further the discussion.

I get fp+ for the afternoon park.

I'm not accusing you of lying. Here is what you said. You have a SDMT FP with a return time that you missed, and that you have FP+ for the afternoon park. I don't know how those coexist. That is all.

 

[cakebaker]

You can't replicate our sched

If you read my statement to mean that I would replicate the times as well as the rides, I apologize. That is not what I meant. I thought that I cleared that up in subsequent posts by saying "maybe not at the exact times." Replicating the times seems rather pointless. The goal here is "what can one accomplish in a day". Not, "what can one accomplish at 9:47".

That's your goal, not mine. We have never attacked the parks in a commando how much can I get done today fashion. I hate that style of touring. I'm at WDW to enjoy the moments, smell the roses, watch my grandson become enthralled with a silly spray of water. I'm not there to get it done and get out.

Again, times aren't pointless, and they aren't down to the minute. I just need Fp+'s sometime after 4 with certainty. You can't replicate that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If you read my statement to mean that I would replicate the times as well as the rides, I apologize. That is not what I meant. I thought that I cleared that up in subsequent posts by saying "maybe not at the exact times." Replicating the times seems rather pointless. The goal here is "what can one accomplish in a day". Not, "what can one accomplish at 9:47".

Why is it pointless?

Did anyone want to be done at 9:47?

What if someone wanted to be done by noon? By choice or circumstance cannot arrive until 2?

What if they did a date night and hired a sitter? (We did this once at EPCOT for an anniversary.)

What if they wanted to park hop?

What if they wanted to show up and ride just one ride with little to no wait?

What if they had a breakfast, lunch, or dinner ADR and had no interest in having their party separated so someone could go and get a fastpass?

What if spur of moment, they wanted to do a park that day--but alas, it is many hours after rope drop?

 

[JimmyV]

Except you notice that the return time for 7DMT coincides with your CRT breakfast. Now you have to figure out what to do.

No. My return time does not interfere with my breakfast time. I make sure of that.

 

[MrInfinity]

JimmyV: All done at RD with no FPs needed.
Yep, we're on the same page until........

JimmyV: I use FP that I obtained around 8:00. I was in the Tomorrowland/Fantasyland area anyway.
No no, you see.... Rope drop time was spent over at Space Mountain! We were okay up until here. So which is it. Are you heading to SDMT to grab a FP ticket, or are you using your rope drop time to do Space Mountain 3 times? Note in my plan, I had Space Mtn 3 times at Rope Drop. If you went to SDMT, waited in the FP- line for it (using TSMM as an example) you would be down the first 1/2 hour if your day by the time you got that SDMT FP-.

JimmyV: I do this later in the day with a FP that I obtained around 10:00. (but in reality, I would have gotten this one first, and 7DMY second)
Seriously. You're saying... if you showed up at the MK. You think you'd be able to pull a FP- to SDMT (ok) but then, at 10am, you'd walk over to A&E and FIND FAST PASSES to it? When they did cards for this it was gone in the first 5 MINUTES of the day! You are completely out in left field here.

JimmyV: I would have done this earlier in the day without a FP. (See: "9:00-10:00 ride things around Fantasyland in our morning time.)
So I've done everything that you did and still have used only 2 FPs.

So Peter Pan at 10, you would have waited an hour or more?

You skipped over Ariel, ETWB, and my hard ticket item of CRT from 10-11:30.

You have in no way replicated my day. You're not even close. Your premise is if this were FP-'able, you'd have pulled a FP to SDMT at rope drop, and then got nothing after that - certainly not A&E, and if you wanted PP, it would have been for much later.

Please go back and read my day again. It's here:
http://www.disboards.com/threads/love-or-hate-fp-anyones-mind-been-changed.3373606/page-50
Easy to find, 2nd post on the page. Can you get even close to replicating this? Having seen this plan of yours, I'm not sure even I could have done it in the FP- era now. You're kind of pointing out just how bad FP- really was.

 

[dayvewc]

I'm not accusing you of lying. Here is what you said. You have a SDMT FP with a return time that you missed, and that you have FP+ for the afternoon park. I don't know how those coexist. That is all.

I read cakebaker's statement to be that using FP-, the would not have been able to pull the SDMT because the return time was past noon, and then when they went to the other park, the FP- would be gone. Not that he had FP+ in both parks, just illustrating how NOW it works better (for him) than what FP- did.

 

[SmithSmith]

I've said it a thousand time. RD is the antidote to the limitations of FP+. When one Rope Drops, this entire discussion becomes irrelevant. But in order to ride both TT and Soarin' with minimal wait with FP+, one must RD. With FP-, it was possible to get FPs for both without being there at Rope Drop.

So you're agreeing that FP+ works well for the "RD, afternoon break, nighttime FP" strategy.

I don't see what the big deal is with EPCOT. Every guidebook I've read suggest to get your FW touring done by 11 so you can enter WS before the crowds expand. In order to see most of FW by 11, one would need to be there by RD.

 

[cakebaker]

I'm not accusing you of lying. Here is what you said. You have a SDMT FP with a return time that you missed, and that you have FP+ for the afternoon park. I don't know how those coexist. That is all.

Yes you are. You said I was making stuff up. In order to make stuff up, one has to lie.

You chided me in a post in which paper fp would've been used. I responded with how I believed it would've worked using paper fp. Under paper fp, that would've been possible.

 

[JimmyV]

Why is it pointless?

Did anyone want to be done at 9:47?

What if someone wanted to be done by noon? By choice or circumstance cannot arrive until 2?

What if they did a date night and hired a sitter? (We did this once at EPCOT for an anniversary.)

What if they wanted to park hop?

What if they wanted to show up and ride just one ride with little to no wait?

What if they had a breakfast, lunch, or dinner ADR and had no interest in having their party separated so someone could go and get a fastpass?

What if spur of moment, they wanted to do a park that day--but alas, it is many hours after rope drop?

These are all interesting circumstances......that people faced under FP- and managed just fine. Again, let's not pretend that FP+ is a panacea for every touring circumstance or anomaly. People did just fine in 2013. Their world did not come crashing down on them. If the question is: are these issues more easily addressed with FP+, then the answer for some is, "yes". And that comes at a cost. And a dozen pages ago, all I said was that it was not irrational for people to not endorse the cost at which the benefits come.

 

[JimmyV]

So you're agreeing that FP+ works well for the "RD, afternoon break, nighttime FP" strategy.

Yes. I don't think I have ever said otherwise.

 

[Laketravis]

You don't mind driving back and forth to Universal every day, I'm pretty sure you can handle a few clicks on the keyboard and I'm pretty sure the op knows that tip as well. And since we are restricted to what they asked, let's stick to them and not the supposed clueless user.

Well that was certainly a pleasant read.

Someone speculated that there may be additional FP's thrown in the pool closer to the actual day, I posted an example of how there weren't FP's available for a party of three the day before in HS for TSMM and ToT, someone said that I could try manipulating the system by booking ONE at a time and then try to get them all to overlap, I commented that seemed like work and I don't think it would occur to the average or first time user to do that and you felt it necessary to then scold me.

But thanks for your input.

.

 

[JimmyV]

JimmyV: All done at RD with no FPs needed.
Yep, we're on the same page until........

JimmyV: I use FP that I obtained around 8:00. I was in the Tomorrowland/Fantasyland area anyway.
No no, you see.... Rope drop time was spent over at Space Mountain! We were okay up until here. So which is it. Are you heading to SDMT to grab a FP ticket, or are you using your rope drop time to do Space Mountain 3 times? Note in my plan, I had Space Mtn 3 times at Rope Drop. If you went to SDMT, waited in the FP- line for it (using TSMM as an example) you would be down the first 1/2 hour if your day by the time you got that SDMT FP-. It isn't an "either or". One can spend a minute to get FPs and ride rides at the same time. It was done all the time. I am not suggesting that this extra minute is not extra effort. But it was little effort for great reward.

JimmyV: I do this later in the day with a FP that I obtained around 10:00. (but in reality, I would have gotten this one first, and 7DMY second)
Seriously. You're saying... if you showed up at the MK. You think you'd be able to pull a FP- to SDMT (ok) but then, at 10am, you'd walk over to A&E and FIND FAST PASSES to it? Yes. That is what I am saying. Piece of cake. Remember, this would have been my first FP. Just like TSMM is at DHS.

JimmyV: I would have done this earlier in the day without a FP. (See: "9:00-10:00 ride things around Fantasyland in our morning time.)
So I've done everything that you did and still have used only 2 FPs.

So Peter Pan at 10, you would have waited an hour or more? I would do this in my time between 9:00-10:00 per the above. And I would err on the side of 9:00. With the new interactive queue, I would welcome a 15-25 minute wait.

You skipped over Ariel, ETWB, and my hard ticket item of CRT from 10-11:30. Where did I skip this? You are not using FPs for these rides, and neither am I. So we are doing them at around the same time, in different orders.

There is nothing difficult in your plan.

 

[JimmyV]

I read cakebaker's statement to be that using FP-, the would not have been able to pull the SDMT because the return time was past noon,

??? They couldn't pull on for 7DMT because they had FPs in Epcot. The timing has nothing to do with it.

 

[dayvewc]

These are all interesting circumstances......that people faced under FP- and managed just fine. Again, let's not pretend that FP+ is a panacea for every touring circumstance or anomaly. People did just fine in 2013. Their world did not come crashing down on them. If the question is: are these issues more easily addressed with FP+, then the answer for some is, "yes". And that comes at a cost. And a dozen pages ago, all I said was that it was not irrational for people to not endorse the cost at which the benefits come.

But it does become irrational to insist that a method that demonstrably doesn't work as well, can in fact replicate the results of the newer method.

 

[wisblue]

Your entire premise is flawed. It assumes that there is an exact "right" time to get a FP for these attractions and still make your ADR. If you don't think that I could have gotten FPs for A&E, 7DMT and Space Mountain all in the same day, and still made my ADR, then you don't know me at all. Would I have gotten the exact same times as you? I have no idea. But it doesn't matter. I would have enjoyed the same things as you. Is the order relevant? Not to me. And again, as I point out above, your ability to plan with military precision comes with a cost. It all boils down to:
Pick One:

• 3 FPs at the MK at times certain knowing that you cannot get FPs for both Soarin' and Test Track; or
• 3 FPs at the MK for the same three rides but at less certain times, knowing that you can get FPs for both Soarin'a and Test Track tomorrow.

You pick the former. I pick the latter. It's opinion.

Wait a minute. MY premise is flawed. You set the standard by saying you could replicate the rides and times. In my dictionary, the word "replicate" is defined as "to repeat or copy (something) exactly". So, once you start playing around with the times you are not replicating anything. I'm not going to say that the times would have to be 100% identical, but they would have to be at the same general time of day. A FP for A&E at 10 AM, one for 7DMT at 2PM, and one for Space at 6 PM is not a replication of my plans.

The point is not whether you could have gotten FPs for all 3 of those things, although I suspect that the only way you could have gotten FP's for both A&E and 7DMT would be to be one of the first people to the A&E FP machine, and then take whatever you could get for 7DMT when that window opens at least 50 minutes or so later.

But, you are also conveniently ignoring a very important part of my scenario, which is that I might not plan to be at MK first thing in the morning to get those FPs. I might want to spend that morning at Epcot doing BOTH Soarin and Test Track without a FP. Or, I might want to start the day at DHS doing TSMM, RNRC, and TOT, all without FPs.

Neither of the options you listed above describes what I'm going to do with my day. My option is "3 FPs at MK at times that are certain and that fit with the rest of the plan for the day, knowing that I can also ride Soarin and Test Track without FPs ON THAT DAY and knowing that I can get 3 FPs at another park, and ride a bunch of things without FPs again tomorrow."

I get that your approach to the Disney parks is different than mine. You have said several times that you often used paper FPs to get multiple rides on things like Soarin, Test Track, TSMM, and RNRC. I also understand that to do that you had to spend all day in one park to round up and use those FPs. I also understand that FP+ makes it impossible for you to do that anymore. I'm just asking you to understand that I never had any desire to spend our days at WDW that way, and that FP+ works better for the way we like to do things. Is that fair?

 

[SmithSmith]

Yes. I don't think I have ever said otherwise.

Let me get this straight. Are you arguing that a hypothetical guest won't be able to "saunter" into EPCOT well after park opening and ride the headlining attractions with zero wait?

 

[dayvewc]

??? They couldn't pull on for 7DMT because they had FPs in Epcot. The timing has nothing to do with it.

Timing has everything to do with it. The original poster was giving a "what-if" scenario under FP-.

If SDMT had opened while FP- was still available, AND needed to leave MK by 11 am, it would be likely that unless he participated in the rope drop drag race to the machines, the available return time would be past when he wished to leave MK. Under the same "still using FP-" scenario, when he arrives at EPCOT, the return times for Soarin' are incompatible with his ADR or Illumination or are gone (depending on exactly when he arrived).

Under FP+, this becomes easily doable, as he has his EPCOT FP+ scheduled, he just doesn't get to by-pass the SB line on SDMT, which is the same situation he would have faced under FP-.

 

[MrInfinity]

JimmyV: It isn't an "either or". One can spend a minute to get FPs and ride rides at the same time. It was done all the time. I am not suggesting that this extra minute is not extra effort. But it was little effort for great reward.

It's not a minute tho. We're talking SDMT here. It would be a mob to the FP- line like it was to the TSMM line.

Yes. That is what I am saying. Piece of cake. Remember, this would have been my first FP. Just like TSMM is at DHS.

Ok, so you wouldn't pull SDMT then? You'd pull A&E? You said you'd FP- SDMT, now you're saying you'd FP- A&E first. And still ride Space 3x at rope drop, and make BBB for 8am. Are you serious? You realize if you pulled A&E first, then by 10:00, SDMT would be completely out, or have some late night return time.....

JimmyV: And I would err on the side of 9:00. With the new interactive queue, I would welcome a 15-25 minute wait.

I would welcome that too! If only it existed. I did say 9-level day, right?

You skipped over Ariel, ETWB, and my hard ticket item of CRT from 10-11:30. Where did I skip this? You are not using FPs for these rides, and neither am I. So we are doing them at around the same time, in different orders.

Detail it out, Jimmy. Here are the objectives:
BBB at 8. CRT at 10. Ohana at 5. Meanwhile, ride... Space Mtn 3x. SDMT. PP. Ariel. ETWB. IASW. Teacups. HM. POTC. Tiki. Visit A&E.

All with 4 kids, and done by 4pm in time to make our dinner res. My plan was very simple. FP+ makes so much possible that was simply impossible before. You said you "could replicate it easily" and you've made some half-hearted effort full of pulling multiple FP-'s at the same time while being somewhere else inconsistencies.

 

[cakebaker]

"Again, let's not pretend that FP+ is a panacea for every touring circumstance or anomaly."

No one has made such claim. You said you could replicate, I'm just asking you to do it and if not, admit that.

Well that was certainly a pleasant read.

Someone speculated that there may be additional FP's thrown in the pool closer to the actual day, I posted an example of how there weren't FP's available for a party of three the day before in HS for TSMM and ToT, someone said that I could try manipulating the system by booking ONE at a time and then try to get them all to overlap, I commented that seemed like work and I don't think it would occur to the average or first time user to do that and you felt it necessary to then scold me.

But thanks for your input.

.

I apologize if your feelings were hurt. It was never meant to be scolding at all. It was a compliment. You are up to more of a challenge than me and honestly, I don't think knowing how to search 1 person at a time is really much more than common sense. Look at this way- the newbie gets on MDE and tries for 3, can't get them. Common sense, says try for fewer. Try 2, then try 1. And let's say they got 1 or 2- they still have more to get. So they'll go back and try and if it works, and they find 1 more, but not at exactly the same time- well, they just made a wonderful discovery- booking 1 at a time.

It's not hard. People on the Dis figured it out, so will others.