Louisiana student has trouble with principal for wearing Colts jersey

[DisneyBamaFan]

Oh, I remember it well. Thought rebellion was the way to go. Got a son that was the same way. But, we faced the consequenses for that rebellion.

I don't think this is an an evil kid or anything, this may be the one and only time he ever goes against the grain. Whether its a stand he is taking or a prank to be funny--he just has to be willing to take the consequenses for that action.

I absolutely LIVED for the consequences. Nothing made me feel better than receiving a punishment that made a fool of the punisher. I can't tell you how many times I did things to provoke a response, and got exactly what I hoped to get. Why? Because I was dealing with small minded people who were focused on control. They are the easiest to control - even for a teenager.

I can see the same attitude from my son. I have learned that control isn't important - values are. You can't win when you struggle for control with someone who doesn't care about consequences. In the end, you wind up looking like a fool for trying...

 

[portocall]

I absolutely LIVED for the consequences. Nothing made me feel better than receiving a punishment that made a fool of the punisher. I can't tell you how many times I did things to provoke a response, and got exactly what I hoped to get. Why? Because I was dealing with small minded people who were focused on control. They are the easiest to control - even for a teenager.

I can see the same attitude from my son. I have learned that control isn't important - values are. You can't win when you struggle for control with someone who doesn't care about consequences. In the end, you wind up looking like a fool for trying...

We had a few in my high school like you I thought both parties were fools though. But still, as long as you have uniform rules in effect, you can't allow the few rebels to get away with breaking the rules or the school would lose all control. And despite what one might think, high school really is all about controlling the mass and dealing with the handful of rebels individually. If the school didn't deal with the one, the next time there would be more.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

You mean there's absolutely nowhere in upstate NY that does this kind of dress code thing? Not one single school? How large of an area are we talking about? One school? A school district? A county?

I'm trying to understand how you can be so absolutely, positively sure that "this entire situation would not take place around here!"? I'm really curious.

Thanks.

I never said that. I think it is pretty clear I am speaking in general. It really isn't the norm or the rule here. I think that comes through very clearly in my wording.

There are areas where this is very much the norm vs where I am from......

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

So are you saying that if a student CHOOSES (as opposed to accidently) to go against the school rules, your schools will say "oh, its just a little rule, its ok"? So who decides if the rule is worth enforcing?

I am not sure I understand how enforcing a rule is abusing power?? Abuse of power would come from intimidating the students about thier actions when no rule is in place.

There may not be major problems with inappropriate dress with the kids you know of or within the school your kids attend, but I can assure you there are students dressing inappropraitely somewhere in your area. That problem is, unfortunately, not a regional thing.

I don't really think the whole issue is about the color of the shirt; its about this young man's choice to break the rule. He made his choice and now he must live with the consequenses--sounds like a pretty good life lesson.

again, you are seeing what you want to see and not what I am saying. We could keep going through this, but as long as you refuse to see what I am saying, it is pointless. For the record, I am not asking you to agree with me, just not to read things into my words or twist them to suit your point.

 

[disney4us2002]

I work for the federal government and have a dress code policy of business casual...on the Friday before a Ravens game we are allowed to wear purple and black, or business attire, on certain days during baseball season, we are allowed to wear orange and black (Orioles games), or business casual. Rules are rules that's all there is to it. I have co-workers who are NOT Ravens fans, they show up to work in business casual and that's that. How hard is it for people to follow rules? This boy is going to have a hard time in the real world if he keeps pushing his boundaries! And what about his parents? They should have taught him about respecting authority and following rules, then they wouldn't have run into this problem.

Not a chance that the Fed Gov't would be able to enforce that you can only wear those specific teams' colors. No way.

 

[portocall]

I am not missing the point. I am saying thank goodness I do not live in an area where strict dress codes and ridiculously restrictive "color days" are tolerated in public schools. (we have color and spirit days, but because we do not have restrictive dress codes - it doesn't matter whether or not you participate. You wear whatever you want, within reason, either way.) I don't agree that uniforms serve a purpose, but that is IMHO. I believe that worrying about what color shirt a student wears, only allowing some students to support their teamand not others, and making this an issue IS abuse of power. I also feel it is counter productive to true respect for authority and the learning environment - again, IMHO. I get that he broke the rules, I am just glad our adminstrators would never make this an issue and choose to focus on truly important issues.

as an aside, whenever uniforms come up - we are told they are important to level the playing field as far as "haves" and "have nots". What is the point of that if you allow days where the kids that can afford $120 official jerseys get to show them off while other "less fortunate" kids have to "feel bad" about their black $5 t-shirts? I have never bought this reasoning for uniforms - this is just one example of why!

another excuse is that uniforms cut down on disruption - here you have a case where things have been taken so far to the extreme that the ridiculous rules and the stupid reaction of the principal are causing the distraction!

I am going to try to respond to your post without twisting your words...

I am going out on a limb to assume that uniforms are not in effect in your school. BUT if a strict uniform policy was in effect, and your child followed it, yet a bunch of kids didn't, what would you think the proper action by the administration should be now that it is a rule?

I think I made clear that I don't care for uniforms in an earlier post, but I will say that I am sure that the principal didn't cause much of a distraction. At our school, if you come in the wrong shirt/pants, you simply get a call home for the parents to bring the correct clothes in. Too many times of that however and in-school detention is a consequence. It is not done in a matter where it is a distraction to the rest of the class or school. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't become a distraction to the school as a whole until the father brought the issue to the media.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

I am going to try to respond to your post without twisting your words...

I am going out on a limb to assume that uniforms are not in effect in your school. BUT if a strict uniform policy was in effect, and your child followed it, yet a bunch of kids didn't, what would you think the proper action by the administration should be now that it is a rule?

I think I made clear that I don't care for uniforms in an earlier post, but I will say that I am sure that the principal didn't cause much of a distraction. At our school, if you come in the wrong shirt/pants, you simply get a call home for the parents to bring the correct clothes in. Too many times of that however and in-school detention is a consequence. It is not done in a matter where it is a distraction to the rest of the class or school. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't become a distraction to the school as a whole until the father brought the issue to the media.

As for the specific incident, I agreed he broke the rules. I agree he needs to face consequences.

I am not addressing the specific incident so much as saying the rules themselves are ridiculous...glad that stuff isn't the norm here. Those in these positions need to pick their battles and to do so over shirt color (as in imposing these rules to begin with) is just ridiculous.

I see your point about distraction - but what I was saying was: when you set up ridiculous rules, this can lead to distractions. In some cases it is one person bucking the system, and sometimes sit outs, and sometimes just general "unrest" throughout the student body when they see through the person in power (not wording that well, but hope you get the point).

Rules and enforcement are one thing, but taking them too far to the point of abuse of power is counter productive. IMHO, and I don't expect everyone to agree, this is taking it too far. I especially feel this kind of thing has NO place ina public school - private/religious is another story.

 

[luvsJack]

again, you are seeing what you want to see and not what I am saying. We could keep going through this, but as long as you refuse to see what I am saying, it is pointless. For the record, I am not asking you to agree with me, just not to read things into my words or twist them to suit your point.

I'm not meaning to twist your words or refusing to see what you are saying. Really, I'm not.

You said that you do not agree with the rules that caused the situation. Right? My assumption was that either you do not agree with the uniform policies or you think there should not have been a restriction on the colors they wore or if these rules were in place, they should not have been so strict on this young man.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Not a chance that the Fed Gov't would be able to enforce that you can only wear those specific teams' colors. No way.

So what happens when one follows the appropriate business casual portion of the policy...

But their tie on their shirt--or their slacks...just so happen to be a color that represents the opposing team? It's breaking and following the policy at the same time....so what happens?

 

[FireDancer]

I think there are two completely different conversations going on here just like there was on the Texas long haired kid thread. The first is if the rule is dumb and the second is was the kid wrong for breaking the rule. They are completely unrelated though.

There are a lot of dumb rules in life but unless they are restricting a constitutionally protected liberty (of which 'right of shirt' color is not) they are still the rules. You can attempt to change them but until they are changed they need to be followed.

And to preempt the obvious (for the Dis at least) assertion that wearing the Colts jersey was analogous to Rosa Parks standing her ground (or sitting it as it were), no it isn't.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

And to preempt the obvious (for the Dis at least) assertion that wearing the Colts jersey was analogous to Rosa Parks standing her ground (or sitting it as it were), no it isn't.

I brought her up--and I didn't say it was analogous. But it demonstrates that sometimes it does take breaking a rule--to get it changed. Sometimes rules don't get changed no matter how dumb they are until it is demonstrated just how dumb they are.

But I in no way was claiming that this boy was the next civil rights activist in training for taking his valiant stand against the establishment.

I was more so claiming that he wasn't necessarily a discipline problem just b/c he chose to take this stand.

Whether his civil liberties were violated...I haven't a clue nor do I really care outside of this lovely conversation.