Lots of DVC Questions - in contract for BWV

[BoardwalkSuzy]

I never took a DVC tour, but based on all the great reviews about DVC membership, I took the plunge and went into contract last week for Boardwalk Villa points. I have so many questions, and have directed these toward the seller, awaiting response. I haven't received answers yet and haven't received any disclosures yet. I have until this Friday as last day to cancel with the 10 day cancellation window required by Florida law. Perhaps some other DVC experts may have the answers. All I have so far is a fancy catalog, CD, point charts, and a 1 page contract committing to purchase price and maintenance fee each year.

Here's my long list of questions still unanswered about DVC...

> 1) What was the total quantity of points issued for each DVC resort? How were the total points calculated before they were issued?
>
>
> 2) In past, privileges that were once included with DVC membership were later taken away at Disney's discretion - for example, they used to allow DVC members to pool hop - took that away because of Stormalong pool crowding. DVC membership also used to include valet parking at Boardwalk Villas, and that was taken away and members now charged $12. What other changes can Disney make to membership benefits, and how do these decisions get made? What document has the language that says Disney can change DVC benefits at their discretion?
>
>
> 3) Are new DVC members to receive any disclosures during escrow or at closing for the DVC points, and what documents are they to receive?
>
>
> 4) Do buyers get to see annual maintenance expense reports with the expenses itemized - maintenance, reserves, staff salaries, taxes and insurance? Are there any restrictions to prevent Disney profiting from the maintenance charges?
>
>
> 5) What is the maximum amount that maintenance can be increased per year - think I read somewhere 15%? What if your home resort comes due for complete remodel or rebuild during life of vacation ownership? Could we be stuck possibly at end of the life of points with dues increasing 15% every year for a new rebuild, and is it possible that vacation owners be asked to pay into reserves for future building planned after the term expires? It seems unfair to ask owners to pay toward reserves at end of life of points, especially if the reserve charges are for planned new construction for which the vacation owner does not get the benefit since term expiring. Can there be assessments imposed separately from the annual maximum maintenance fee hikes?
>
>
> 6) Are there minimum nights that a DVC member can stay, or can stays just be one night in DVC villas?
>
>
> 7) How can we be assured that DVC Villas will be maintained at the same standards as the other resort accommodations? For example, reviews on TripAdvisor of Boardwalk Inn mentioned that the DVC Villas side of the resort was not as nicely maintained or as clean as the Inn side of the resort.
>
>
> 8) Are there any DVC resorts that have covered walkways to restaurants and other conveniences, if happen to be staying during bad weather such as heavy rain? Are there any restaurants in the Boardwalk Villas that can be reached from within the lobby or interior?
>
>
> 9) Does Disney allow DVC members to rent out their points, and are there restrictions in doing that? Can the points be "gifted" to a friend?
>
>
> 10) Are there any documents that detail the rules & regulations for members that can be provided?
>
>
> 11) Are there any indoor hot tubs or pools for any of the DVC villas at any resort, or is everything outside only? I like the option of indoor swimming pools and jacuzzis - no need for sunscreen, and can use even when raining outside.
>
>
> 12) Are there plans to add elevators at ends of hallways at the Boardwalk Villas and Inn? I've seen many written complaints about the lack of elevators at the Boardwalk Villas.
>

> 13) Why does Disney not handle the DVC point resales too, and instead buys-back and resells again? Why are Disney's prices so much more than the resale market? I was quoted $115/pt for Boardwalk for example.
>
>
> 14) Why are 2 BR villas advertised as "sleeps 8", but the floor plan shows only 2 actual beds (one in each bedroom) along with a fold out in one of the bedrooms and another fold-out in living room? Our immediate family is just 4, but we want 3 separate real beds, so one kid doesn't get stuck sleeping on a fold-out sofa for a week, while the other gets a real bed. Are there dedicated rooms in the DVC plan that do not have the fold-out sleepers in the bedrooms, or do we need to make our plans around a grand villa in order to get the 3 beds?

15) Can point sets be split - for instance, buy 300, sell 150 after 10 years when not going to Disney as much for instance? Or can only Disney split the point sets after they do a ROFR, buy back, then repackaging in smaller sets of points for resale?
>
>
Thank you to anyone on this site for taking time to answer any of my many questions.

 

[Sandisw]

I can try to tackle a few of your questions.

When you buy DVC, you are buying the points and are entitled to use them to get a DVC room (subject to availability). None of the perks of membership are part of the DVC contract and therefore, no one should buy DVC because of those. They can be taken away or changed at any time.

Yes, MF's can go up 15% a year. The history, however, bears out approximately 3 - 4% per year. Disney does have an expense report and these do come out in December. The MFs do have to be based on expenses. However, if something were to happen to a resort, they can do a special assessment to owners.

In the contracts, it does state that a certain # of points will get someone a 5 nights stay throughout the year. I don't have my POS in front of me so I can't remember what that number is and it may be different for each resort. When buying resale, you may or may not be buying a contract that covers that.

The resale market is cheaper than Disney, IMO, because it is owners who want to get rid of their contracts. Disney doesn't want contracts back unless they have a reason to take them. Disney sells for what Disney sells. As far as splitting contracts, only Disney can do that. An owner can not.

Most 2 bedrooms have 1 king in the master, a pull out sofa in the living room, and one bed and a pull out in the 2nd bedroom (this is called a lock off because it is really a 1 bedroom and studio put together to make a 2 bedroom). Some 2 bedrooms are dedicated and have 2 queen beds in the 2nd bedroom. These are booking categories so when you go to reserve a room you can ask for one with the 2 beds. If there is availability, you can get that. If not, your only option will be a lock off.

Good luck!

 

[vicki_c]

2) in past, privileges that were once included with dvc membership were later taken away at disney's discretion - for example, they used to allow dvc members to pool hop - took that away because of stormalong pool crowding. Dvc membership also used to include valet parking at boardwalk villas, and that was taken away and members now charged $12. What other changes can disney make to membership benefits, and how do these decisions get made? What document has the language that says disney can change dvc benefits at their discretion?
>
>
> 6) are there minimum nights that a dvc member can stay, or can stays just be one night in dvc villas?
>
>
> 8) are there any dvc resorts that have covered walkways to restaurants and other conveniences, if happen to be staying during bad weather such as heavy rain? Are there any restaurants in the boardwalk villas that can be reached from within the lobby or interior?
>
>
> 9) does disney allow dvc members to rent out their points, and are there restrictions in doing that? Can the points be "gifted" to a friend?
>
>
> 11) are there any indoor hot tubs or pools for any of the dvc villas at any resort, or is everything outside only? I like the option of indoor swimming pools and jacuzzis - no need for sunscreen, and can use even when raining outside.
>
>
> 12) are there plans to add elevators at ends of hallways at the boardwalk villas and inn? I've seen many written complaints about the lack of elevators at the boardwalk villas.
>
>
> 14) why are 2 br villas advertised as "sleeps 8", but the floor plan shows only 2 actual beds (one in each bedroom) along with a fold out in one of the bedrooms and another fold-out in living room? Our immediate family is just 4, but we want 3 separate real beds, so one kid doesn't get stuck sleeping on a fold-out sofa for a week, while the other gets a real bed. Are there dedicated rooms in the dvc plan that do not have the fold-out sleepers in the bedrooms, or do we need to make our plans around a grand villa in order to get the 3 beds?

15) can point sets be split - for instance, buy 300, sell 150 after 10 years when not going to disney as much for instance? Or can only disney split the point sets after they do a rofr, buy back, then repackaging in smaller sets of points for resale?

2. Don't buy for anything other than reduced price hotel accommodations, which is what is promised by the contract you are purchasing. Perks are just that - subject to change or removal at any time.

6. You can stay as few or as many nights as you want.

8. Some do (BLT for example is one), some don't. Boardwalk has no restaurants that you can walk to inside except for the Bellevue Lounge in the resort which serves a continental breakfast.

9. Yes you can rent your points. Yes you can make a reservation for a friend.

11. No indoor pools at any Disney resorts, DVC or not. Some resorts have hot tubs in the spas, but not regular recreational swimming type hot tubs inside.

12. Add elevators -- highly unlikely. That would be a major remodeling of the entire building and I don't see that happening.

14. OKW does have additional beds instead of the sofa beds. I don't own there and haven't stayed there and can't remember if that's all rooms or not, but I thought it was. And as Sandi said, others have some 2 Q rooms.

15. No you cannot split the points for resale purposes. It's often a good idea to not buy a large contract, but to purchase 2 smaller contracts for this very reason.

On your maintenance & cleaning question, I think that was answered in the other thread you posted.

I have to be honest, some of your questions lead me to think you might not be the best candidate for DVC, but that just might be my interpretation of your questions. You just sound like you have a lot of wants / needs that may or may not be met by DVC ownership, and you might be better off to stay in regular rooms.

 

[DVCconvert]

> 1) What was the total quantity of points issued for each DVC resort? How were the total points calculated before they were issued?
>
>
> 2) In past, privileges that were once included with DVC membership were later taken away at Disney's discretion - for example, they used to allow DVC members to pool hop - took that away because of Stormalong pool crowding. DVC membership also used to include valet parking at Boardwalk Villas, and that was taken away and members now charged $12. What other changes can Disney make to membership benefits, and how do these decisions get made? What document has the language that says Disney can change DVC benefits at their discretion?
>
>
> 3) Are new DVC members to receive any disclosures during escrow or at closing for the DVC points, and what documents are they to receive?
>
>
> 4) Do buyers get to see annual maintenance expense reports with the expenses itemized - maintenance, reserves, staff salaries, taxes and insurance? Are there any restrictions to prevent Disney profiting from the maintenance charges?
>
>
> 5) What is the maximum amount that maintenance can be increased per year - think I read somewhere 15%? What if your home resort comes due for complete remodel or rebuild during life of vacation ownership? Could we be stuck possibly at end of the life of points with dues increasing 15% every year for a new rebuild, and is it possible that vacation owners be asked to pay into reserves for future building planned after the term expires? It seems unfair to ask owners to pay toward reserves at end of life of points, especially if the reserve charges are for planned new construction for which the vacation owner does not get the benefit since term expiring. Can there be assessments imposed separately from the annual maximum maintenance fee hikes?
>
>
> 6) Are there minimum nights that a DVC member can stay, or can stays just be one night in DVC villas?
>
>
> 7) How can we be assured that DVC Villas will be maintained at the same standards as the other resort accommodations? For example, reviews on TripAdvisor of Boardwalk Inn mentioned that the DVC Villas side of the resort was not as nicely maintained or as clean as the Inn side of the resort.
>
>
> 8) Are there any DVC resorts that have covered walkways to restaurants and other conveniences, if happen to be staying during bad weather such as heavy rain? Are there any restaurants in the Boardwalk Villas that can be reached from within the lobby or interior?
>
>
> 9) Does Disney allow DVC members to rent out their points, and are there restrictions in doing that? Can the points be "gifted" to a friend?
>
>
> 10) Are there any documents that detail the rules & regulations for members that can be provided?
>
>
> 11) Are there any indoor hot tubs or pools for any of the DVC villas at any resort, or is everything outside only? I like the option of indoor swimming pools and jacuzzis - no need for sunscreen, and can use even when raining outside.
>
>
> 12) Are there plans to add elevators at ends of hallways at the Boardwalk Villas and Inn? I've seen many written complaints about the lack of elevators at the Boardwalk Villas.
>

> 13) Why does Disney not handle the DVC point resales too, and instead buys-back and resells again? Why are Disney's prices so much more than the resale market? I was quoted $115/pt for Boardwalk for example.
>
>
> 14) Why are 2 BR villas advertised as "sleeps 8", but the floor plan shows only 2 actual beds (one in each bedroom) along with a fold out in one of the bedrooms and another fold-out in living room? Our immediate family is just 4, but we want 3 separate real beds, so one kid doesn't get stuck sleeping on a fold-out sofa for a week, while the other gets a real bed. Are there dedicated rooms in the DVC plan that do not have the fold-out sleepers in the bedrooms, or do we need to make our plans around a grand villa in order to get the 3 beds?

15) Can point sets be split - for instance, buy 300, sell 150 after 10 years when not going to Disney as much for instance? Or can only Disney split the point sets after they do a ROFR, buy back, then repackaging in smaller sets of points for resale?
>

That's quite the novel you've got there!
Seriously - read your paperwork and these boards and 99% will become apparent.
That said:
#1 -the number of points vaired by resort - don't sweat it
#2 -Disney giveth, and Disney Takethawayth...you can still pool hop - there are only minor limitations on this...the legal key is a policy change is not supposed to "materially effect" your use/enjoyment/value.
#3 - Your handbook should include the details
#4- each year you will recieve a booklet that breaks down expenses
#5- you're right, max 15% highest I think ever has been about 4% properties are well insured and reserve accounts cover scheduled up grades.
# 6- 1 (if you find a way to spend less, let me know! )
#7 - Trip Advisor is a bunch of crap - pay them no heed. Since the DVC rooms are rented out to cash paying non members for $400+...you sort that one out!
#8 - Once you learn your way around, this won't be much of an issue - of course at BWV you can always order room service
#9 - points can be rented out - research these boards for more info - as for "gifted" do you mean in fee? or a gift as in creating a ressie and hosting others? In fee - is determined by who's a listed owner on the contract which can be modified - as in 'hosting others' - no problems.
#10 - I've never seen anyone take the time to scan in all that. But the member handbook will give that as will most every other written bit you'll ever get from DVC
#11 - Not that I can quickly think of. Most folks go to FLto be outside, and most if not all pools have some form of shade available
#12 - None that are being talked about publically at this time.
#13 - the pricing is not the same because of a number of factors - DVC can usually supply exactly what you're looking for size/UY etc whereas on the resale side you have to buy only what is available.
#14 - resort bedding varies some, some have 2 double beds per bdrm plus pull outs
#15 - contracts remain their orginal issue size from your pov - once/if DVC re owns a contract they can split it

*whew!!!*
HTH

 

[crisi]

> 1) What was the total quantity of points issued for each DVC resort? How were the total points calculated before they were issued?

Room nights available X room rate (points). I think the total number of points is in the public offering statement.


>
> 2) In past, privileges that were once included with DVC membership were later taken away at Disney's discretion - for example, they used to allow DVC members to pool hop - took that away because of Stormalong pool crowding. DVC membership also used to include valet parking at Boardwalk Villas, and that was taken away and members now charged $12. What other changes can Disney make to membership benefits, and how do these decisions get made? What document has the language that says Disney can change DVC benefits at their discretion?

The POS.


> 3) Are new DVC members to receive any disclosures during escrow or at closing for the DVC points, and what documents are they to receive?

I got no documents when I closed resale. I asked and had some sent to me.


> 4) Do buyers get to see annual maintenance expense reports with the expenses itemized - maintenance, reserves, staff salaries, taxes and insurance? Are there any restrictions to prevent Disney profiting from the maintenance charges?

Yes, but its a fairly high level rollup. So you get a line item for "transportation" but we really have no idea what that breaks out to, or how. Buses to the resort, certainly. But is Magical Express in there? Is BLT getting a monorail bill? We don't know.

> 5) What is the maximum amount that maintenance can be increased per year - think I read somewhere 15%? What if your home resort comes due for complete remodel or rebuild during life of vacation ownership? Could we be stuck possibly at end of the life of points with dues increasing 15% every year for a new rebuild, and is it possible that vacation owners be asked to pay into reserves for future building planned after the term expires? It seems unfair to ask owners to pay toward reserves at end of life of points, especially if the reserve charges are for planned new construction for which the vacation owner does not get the benefit since term expiring. Can there be assessments imposed separately from the annual maximum maintenance fee hikes?

Yes, the have the contractual ability to do an assessment. I do not believe they ever have.

> 6) Are there minimum nights that a DVC member can stay, or can stays just be one night in DVC villas?

Not currently, but there is a provision for that in the contract.

> 7) How can we be assured that DVC Villas will be maintained at the same standards as the other resort accommodations? For example, reviews on TripAdvisor of Boardwalk Inn mentioned that the DVC Villas side of the resort was not as nicely maintained or as clean as the Inn side of the resort.

They aren't. You can't.

> 8) Are there any DVC resorts that have covered walkways to restaurants and other conveniences, if happen to be staying during bad weather such as heavy rain? Are there any restaurants in the Boardwalk Villas that can be reached from within the lobby or interior?

Not at the Boardwalk

>
> 9) Does Disney allow DVC members to rent out their points, and are there restrictions in doing that? Can the points be "gifted" to a friend?

No "commercial" renting is allowed. Disney has taken steps to curtail large scale commercial renting. There is some debate about the definition of commercial and how far they could go if they chose.

> 10) Are there any documents that detail the rules & regulations for members that can be provided?

The POS is a start.

> 11) Are there any indoor hot tubs or pools for any of the DVC villas at any resort, or is everything outside only? I like the option of indoor swimming pools and jacuzzis - no need for sunscreen, and can use even when raining outside.

No indoor pools at Disney resorts in Orlando.

> 12) Are there plans to add elevators at ends of hallways at the Boardwalk Villas and Inn? I've seen many written complaints about the lack of elevators at the Boardwalk Villas.

No and the building layout makes it highly unlikely.


> 13) Why does Disney not handle the DVC point resales too, and instead buys-back and resells again? Why are Disney's prices so much more than the resale market? I was quoted $115/pt for Boardwalk for example.

Because it isn't profitable for them to do so. They scoop up the cheapest points under right of first refusal and can resell them as "new" for $115 a point.

> 14) Why are 2 BR villas advertised as "sleeps 8", but the floor plan shows only 2 actual beds (one in each bedroom) along with a fold out in one of the bedrooms and another fold-out in living room? Our immediate family is just 4, but we want 3 separate real beds, so one kid doesn't get stuck sleeping on a fold-out sofa for a week, while the other gets a real bed. Are there dedicated rooms in the DVC plan that do not have the fold-out sleepers in the bedrooms, or do we need to make our plans around a grand villa in order to get the 3 beds?

The arrangements in ALL two bedrooms at BW is that they are lockoffs with one king bed. One pullout in the living room. One Queen and one pullout in the studio. You would need to book a Grand Villa to get three real beds, or buy a resort where that configuration is possible. There are not many Grand Villas at Boardwalk (7?) and they often book quickly, so you will want to plan as far in advance as possible.

15) Can point sets be split - for instance, buy 300, sell 150 after 10 years when not going to Disney as much for instance? Or can only Disney split the point sets after they do a ROFR, buy back, then repackaging in smaller sets of points for resale?

No, not by members.


[/QUOTE]

 

[DebbieB]

BWV had a complete renovation in the past year, it was just completed. I stayed in a renovated room in December, it was very nice. I've owned at BWV over 10 years and have no regrets.

The question of elevators came up at an annual meeting I went to about 9 years ago. They said they cannot be added. I have to say though that it's never been a big deal for us. There are staircases at the end of the halls, we have used them when our room was at the end. I think the walk issue is exaggerated. It's like saying it's too far to walk from the front gate of MK to the end of Main Street. That's probably longer than the walk to the farthest room.

 

[BoardwalkSuzy]

Thanks everyone for such great answers - I know it took a lot of your time to read all that, and to respond - big thanks!

Just so you know, I'm a property manager, and a commercial real estate appraiser, and tend to ask a lot of questions as a habit. Was licensed in real estate sales, and brokerage too, but couldn't make a living at that. I constantly see bad real estate contracts that people can't get out of, and partial ownership interests that are hard to resell. It's a great perk with DVC, that if you basically want to walk away from the annual maintenance fees, you can resale your points through an agent pretty easily, or just sell back to Disney at a discount if in a hurry.

Also, I am starting to manage a building in San Francisco where the minimum homeowners dues were being charged (garbage, pg&e, insurance), and am now having to prepare a reserve fund analysis and impose large assessments on all the owners for a new roof since old one leaking, paint job needs done, dry rot, water damage, new hallway carpets needed, etc. It's not good to be without reserves for maintenance. Would hate to have that happen at DVC - a surprise assessment, but with reserves in the maintenance plan, that should make the difference. 3-4% is definately reasonable for annual increases - salaries, and such go up in those increments. I also have learned that Disney is good about maintaining good coverage on insurance policies that cover even natural disasters too. Check out that Vero beach insurance cost - I'm sure for the hurricane risk, and flooding risk at only 13 ft elevation - that's why the total maintenance is so high. I found the break-out chart for expenses by resort.

The DVC plan sounds great especially for families who need more of a home away from home. We always have rented condominiums when we travel, or stay at a suite hotel. Am curious if add-ons for points to extend terms are planned for all resorts in the future like they are offering and selling for OKW.

Thanks for informing me about how it's not feasible for additional elevators at Boardwalk. I have no trouble walking - I'm one of those people that don't fight for parking up close, just park in back of lots, and walk, so not big deal to me. I did the measurements and looks like the Boardwalk Inn & Villas is 1/2mile wide, so it's approximately a 1/4 mile from elevator bank in middle to end of each hallway. They should put some more entertaining pictures or something up on the walls to make the walk more interesting perhaps. Thanks a bunch everyone for your responses! Can't wait for deal to close - but have to wait maybe another month for the ROFR review.

 

[vicki_c]

Good luck with your purchase and make sure to come back and let everyone know when you pass ROFR! We love our DVC and like so many others only wish we had purchased sooner.

 

[chalee94]

Am curious if add-ons for points to extend terms are planned for all resorts in the future like they are offering and selling for OKW.

nothing is planned.

the OKW extension had several issues, so i wouldn't count on any other extensions in the near future. just my opinion...

DVC resorts like BWV are a slightly different situation than OKW since it is connected to the BW Inn, and any decision about extending BWV probably also needs to be cleared with the resorts division.