Losing cusstomers

[Bullseye]

Just wanted to chime in on this (shared by me) sentiment. I'm not sure why the thought of "that's ok if you don't like what's going on at Disney, just don't go" is frowned upon or is viewed as negative or not in the Disney spirit. On the contrary, trying to convince somebody that they should just be happy with the things they dislike and keep going back is what seems to me to be counter productive and "not in the Disney spirit". To me, the disney spirit is being happy at the parks and feeling just so excited to be there you can't stand it. That is how my wife and I feel when we're there (or planning a trip to be there...or thinking about planning a trip...or pretty much any other time anything Disney world related comes into our brains lol) and it seems to be how millions of others feel as well. But if you don't feel that way then no, I don't think you should go. That's alot of time and money to invest into something that doesn't make you happy or excited. And I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise. Because let's face it, if simply standing on Main Street and soaking it all in doesn't convince you, what chance do I or anybody else really have lol?

So for those of us who love Disney world and making all of the necessary plans and experiencing all the excitement over and over and over again, we will continue to go. And new people and families like us are being created everyday. For those who are turned off by Disney for one reason or another or don't feel like it's magical anymore, I strongly disagree with you, but that's ok! Just don't go and I sincerely hope you find another vacation/experience that does get you super excited.

Snowman this is what I was thinking too. Everybody has their own opinion. People come on here and gripe about every gosh darn thing under the sun and say what an awful place Disney has become and how they don't care about their guests anymore. Not all of us feel that way!! Some of us feel like Disney is doing a great job! So when we see people dumping on Disney and threatening not to go anymore we say bye bye, so long, good riddance and for that we're the bad guy...the pariah.

 

[maxiesmom]

Snowman this is what I was thinking too. Everybody has their own opinion. People come on here and gripe about every gosh darn thing under the sun and say what an awful place Disney has become and how they don't care about their guests anymore. Not all of us feel that way!! Some of us feel like Disney is doing a great job! So when we see people dumping on Disney and threatening not to go anymore we say bye bye, so long, good riddance and for that we're the bad guy...the pariah.

Unfortunately you are right. It reminds me of high school that way.

 

[Mickey&Mouse]

Just wanted to chime in on this (shared by me) sentiment. I'm not sure why the thought of "that's ok if you don't like what's going on at Disney, just don't go" is frowned upon or is viewed as negative or not in the Disney spirit. On the contrary, trying to convince somebody that they should just be happy with the things they dislike and keep going back is what seems to me to be counter productive and "not in the Disney spirit". To me, the disney spirit is being happy at the parks and feeling just so excited to be there you can't stand it. That is how my wife and I feel when we're there (or planning a trip to be there...or thinking about planning a trip...or pretty much any other time anything Disney world related comes into our brains lol) and it seems to be how millions of others feel as well. But if you don't feel that way then no, I don't think you should go. That's alot of time and money to invest into something that doesn't make you happy or excited. And I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise. Because let's face it, if simply standing on Main Street and soaking it all in doesn't convince you, what chance do I or anybody else really have lol?

So for those of us who love Disney world and making all of the necessary plans and experiencing all the excitement over and over and over again, we will continue to go. And new people and families like us are being created everyday. For those who are turned off by Disney for one reason or another or don't feel like it's magical anymore, I strongly disagree with you, but that's ok! Just don't go and I sincerely hope you find another vacation/experience that does get you super excited.

I'm going to guess that any of us standing inside of WDW will be experiencing the Disney spirit at that time. When I originally posted to IrishNYC about not being in the Disney spirit, it was specifically in response to her "Bye-Bye...more for me" post here on this thread.

Snowman this is what I was thinking too. Everybody has their own opinion. People come on here and gripe about every gosh darn thing under the sun and say what an awful place Disney has become and how they don't care about their guests anymore. Not all of us feel that way!! Some of us feel like Disney is doing a great job! So when we see people dumping on Disney and threatening not to go anymore we say bye bye, so long, good riddance and for that we're the bad guy...the pariah.

As far as the “bad guy” goes, I’ve been reading many more posts trying to demean and quiet people who either haven’t used FP+ but don’t like the concept of FP+ or have used FP+ and don’t like it in practice. Either way, the complaints are valid and the negative reviews are extremely useful for some of us planning trips. As others have said repeatedly, we here on the Disboards are already mega-fans of Disney- otherwise why would we be here? So I think that’s a given starting point. Some people take multiple trips per year, others go less frequently. Each person’s viewpoint matters though. Looking through the lens of Disboard camaraderie, I would hope that fellow posters would try to be a little more encouraging (yes in the Disney spirit); as opposed to the “good riddance” or “more for me” sentiment we’re seeing in this thread and others.

We don’t go every year, and the last trip we took was in August of 2012. I can’t speak to the cleanliness of the bathrooms or the CM attitudes of late; however, I am extremely frustrated with the new FP+ system. I also don’t think that in order for my viewpoint to count that I have to have used FP+. I already know that I don’t like the idea of pre-scheduling ride appointments in advance of our trip. Just the word “schedule” is a turn-off. I also don’t like reading that secondary attraction wait times have been increased due to FP+.

Additionally, venting/ complaining about WDW here on the Dis or to Disney directly does not equate to hating WDW or never wanting to return. To the contrary, we care about Disney so much that we’re hoping the complaints actually mean something within the realm of making improvements. Surely as a business Disney would welcome any and all feedback and particularly the negative feedback. That way, they can make improvements as needed.

As for me personally, I realize that FP+ is probably here to stay and will make the best of it on our May trip. However, if I come on the Dis to lament a less-than-Disney experience later, I would hope that fellow Disers would understand that I’m not coming from a position of hate. How is it in the Disney spirit to tell a fellow Disney fan “good riddance” or “more for me” anyway? I would expect a little more understanding.

 

[Dis703]

For every family that says they will never go back, there are thousands more that will.

This.

Even without all these current issues I know plenty of people who went once and never returned. Not because it was a mess of construction or because of FP+ or any of those things. They were just once was enough kind of people.

 

[ellie05]

It's a tricky statistic, and like all statistics, can be misleading. Let's take Josh from easywdw as an example. He lives in the area and goes to a park every day, 365 days a year. (Or has someone go for him. I'm not sure if he actually goes or not.) Same with the folks at Touring Plans. They have boots on the ground every day. And remember the uber-thread from Princess Jess on her college program? She was in a park almost every day, or so it seemed. These folks (and every other Florida resident with an annual pass who flips the turnstile day after day) count, statistically, as "repeat guests". So Josh, all by himself, offsets 365 first time guests. In other words, if you take 366 people who enter a park during the course of a year and 365 of them are first timers, and one of them is Josh, you have a total of 730 "individual park admissions". 365 are first timers and 365 are Josh, (who is a returning guest) for a percentage of 50% returning guests. What would be an interesting statistic to know would be, what percentage of people staying in on-site resorts are repeat guests and what is the average number of visits that they have made?

Let's be honest here. WDW has been open for almost 50 years. The fact that someone is a "repeat guest" isn't all that impressive. That's like saying that 70% of all people who shop at Walmart have shopped at a Walmart before. If someone went once in 1987 and again in 2011, sure, they are a "repeat guest". But so what? With all the changes that have taken place, they may as well be a first timer. I think that what ellie05 is missing is the difference between a repeat guest and a habitual guest. Are 70% of WDW visitors habitual guests? Of course not. And habitual guests do find cost saving strategies that occasional guests do not. In many instances, it is the only thing that allows them to be habitual guests. I suppose that there are habitual guests who spend as if it were their "once in a lifetime" visit, with a suite at the Grand Floridian every year, and the Deluxe Dining Package. But isn't it more likely that habitual guests have different spending habits? Isn't there a specific Board on this site for cost saving strategies? Who do you think contributes more to those discussions--first time guests, occasional guests, or habitual guests? As hard as this may be for some to swallow, in the hospitality industry (when it is running on all cylinders in a good economy), businesses care less about the habitual guest who has "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt" and more about the pie-eyed first timer who wants to "experience it all". Who do you think eats dinner in their room more often--DVC owners on their 25th visit, or the family on their first visit?

No I didn't miss the point as I said repeat guest are more likely to become frequent guest (habitual ). We don't have the numbers to say first time guest spend more. If disney wanted less repeat guest vs first timers there is no prove of that, but there is many things that indicate the exact opposite.
-bounce back offers
-converting hotel rooms into Dvc, more Dvc units
-offering ap discounts
To say that every first time guest stays at the grand floridan, does a ddp and spends a ton in merchandise I don't think is accurate. I know there is no way I would spend $40 in a Mickey tshirt unless I plan on going back. In real life I am not going to wear it at all. Our first trip we were so focus on seeing everything we barely spend time in the shops. But our other visit we have spend lots of money shopping, because we had the time. Have you gone to the budget board ? Most of the savings tips there are so people can spend more money in disney. Where people stay I don't think it depends on number of visit, but in their budget there are plenty of people on this boards that have never stayed at a value and some that only stay deluxe club level. That is why disney appeals to so many families because it you can choose what fit best.

 

[JimmyV]

I know there is no way I would spend $40 in a Mickey tshirt unless I plan on going back. In real life I am not going to wear it at all.

I'm not going to go into a point by point rebuttal, but let's focus on the statement above. First, if you aren't going to wear a t-shirt at all, then your opinion as to when you are more likely to buy one is irrelevant. You aren't going to buy one either way, so no weight is added to either side of the argument. As for the supposition that people buy t-shirts more frequently when they intend to return to a destination, where is the support for that? I have a heck of a lot more stuff from "once in a lifetime" trips than I do from places I go frequently. Also, if the visitor buys the shirt on their first visit, intending to return, doesn't that in fact demonstrate that they spent more money the first time (by buying the shirt) then they did on their second visit (when they didn't buy the shirt because they already owned it)? Or are you somehow suggesting that the person who buys the shirt with the intention of returning doesn't buy it on their first visit....or their third visit...but for some reason buys it on their second visit? Simply put, your statement shows (to the extent that there is any validity to it at all), that a person who is on an early visit, and intends to return, will be coaxed into making a purchase that they will not later make upon their return. It would seem then, that we are in agreement.

 

[Minnesota!]

For us, the changes that WDW has instituted have not been favorable in our eyes. But, we shifted how we vacation and WDW has become enjoyable in a new way. Resort only, or minimal park time. The FP+ system blows, hate being scheduled to the minute. CM's have spanned the whole gamut of dwarfs - grumpy, dopey, creepy, and sleepy.

However, we love that we can go somewhere warm, with palm trees, good pools, cheap rooms, and no driving required. And, domestic. Mexico/Caribbean, etc. holds no appeal for us.

So, we fly down, mini golf, bowl, and swim till our bodies are refreshed and go home.

So, it's how you choose to spend your vacation. If WDW no longer can meet your choice of vacation - time to move on!

 

[kathy884]

I think going to WDW has more to do with where someone is in their life personally and what appeals to them and their family than specific changes at Disney over the years or cost. The place has always been expensive, but many families can deal with that with how they do Orlando -- you can do a shorter trip, fewer park days, stay offsite in a house or condo, camp, cook your own food, etc. It also in my humble opinion is competitively priced and comparable at least for our family to other US vacation destination like popular national parks, cities, beach resorts, and tends to run us less than Mexico, a cruise, skiing or the Caribbean. And for dealing with crowds besides FP+ there is rope drop and easy WDW and touring plans that have some really great tips to help deal with all the people. There have been lots of changes since 1971, many IMHO way more dramatic that what has changed recently. Looking back over the years, the changes I liked the least were charging extra for non expiry tickets (used to be you could buy a multiday ticket that you could use for years without any premium in price) and the advent of the dining plan. It used to be that even Christmas week you could go to any WDW restaurant and be seated without a reservation in about 20 minutes. I thought the place was kind of neat in 1971 when I was 10 and WDW opened up, but I wasn't gaga about it. I preferred Cedar Point and thrill rides then, but certainly never complained to mom and dad about the multiple repeat trips to Orlando that usually were two weeks in length, included two MK park days, a meal at the Polynesian, and a dinner show like the Hoop de Doo or Luau. // In my 20s --married no kids our favorite vacations were ski trips, but we'd join other family members in Orlando just to visit with the family. In my 30s with a young child, he loved SeaWorld, but wasn't that into Disney and DH was not into Disney, so I'd just meet family there occasionally just for a few days. DS, though, really got into the all the Orlando parks in Junior High and High School, and that recent period, the last seven years, have been my favorite at Disney just because it was such a blast going there with my child. And I've done mini annual trips that past seven year (just me an DS, as DH has never been able to stand the place, but does like the Contemporary for conventions -- has attended four or five there). But now DS is in college and I'm posting this from Puerto Vallarta, Mexico -- DS still likes Disney and Orlando, but has broader tastes and interests for vacation time that appeal more to DH too, so after 38 trips I don't know when or if I'll be back. But this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with changes at Disney, and it has everything to do with changes in my family and what sounds appealing for a mini get-a-way and week long vacation trip.

 

[DizDaD7]

In terms of buying shirts and stuff. I don't generally think It's about buying a shirt on our first trip, and basically that's it.

In our past traditon, if we're at a mall, or some other store which happens to sell WDW items, or shirts, and they're a decent bargain, then we'll pick 'em up. It's nice to have different Disney shirts, along with a bunch of older favs. too. And on some occasions, I do wear them at home , and not only on our WDW trips.

Some make it a traditon to certainly buy ones on their 1st trip, that might have the Year on it...Then the next time they go , it's a lil different design/color and will have that year on...Thus creating the need to keep on collecting as you/they go....Constant profit, & a lil bit of incentive to keep spending $$$...

 

[ellie05]

I'm not going to go into a point by point rebuttal, but let's focus on the statement above. First, if you aren't going to wear a t-shirt at all, then your opinion as to when you are more likely to buy one is irrelevant. You aren't going to buy one either way, so no weight is added to either side of the argument. As for the supposition that people buy t-shirts more frequently when they intend to return to a destination, where is the support for that? I have a heck of a lot more stuff from "once in a lifetime" trips than I do from places I go frequently. Also, if the visitor buys the shirt on their first visit, intending to return, doesn't that in fact demonstrate that they spent more money the first time (by buying the shirt) then they did on their second visit (when they didn't buy the shirt because they already owned it)? Or are you somehow suggesting that the person who buys the shirt with the intention of returning doesn't buy it on their first visit....or their third visit...but for some reason buys it on their second visit? Simply put, your statement shows (to the extent that there is any validity to it at all), that a person who is on an early visit, and intends to return, will be coaxed into making a purchase that they will not later make upon their return. It would seem then, that we are in agreement.

the tshirt was a very small point to what I was trying to say. As I said before those numbers are not out there so this is a moot point. What I meant I wouldnt wear it in the real world is that I will not wear the tshirt out of disney property. I for a fact don't have more from one of a lifetime places, but I don't like to buy things I don't have a purpose for, I hate clutter. I do have lots of disney stuff mostly holidays stuff and none of it was bought in our first trip except for 1 pair of ears. My point was about disney wanting return guest.

 

[Cormoran]

I'm going to guess that any of us standing inside of WDW will be experiencing the Disney spirit at that time. When I originally posted to IrishNYC about not being in the Disney spirit, it was specifically in response to her "Bye-Bye...more for me" post here on this thread.

As far as the “bad guy” goes, I’ve been reading many more posts trying to demean and quiet people who either haven’t used FP+ but don’t like the concept of FP+ or have used FP+ and don’t like it in practice. Either way, the complaints are valid and the negative reviews are extremely useful for some of us planning trips. As others have said repeatedly, we here on the Disboards are already mega-fans of Disney- otherwise why would we be here? So I think that’s a given starting point. Some people take multiple trips per year, others go less frequently. Each person’s viewpoint matters though. Looking through the lens of Disboard camaraderie, I would hope that fellow posters would try to be a little more encouraging (yes in the Disney spirit); as opposed to the “good riddance” or “more for me” sentiment we’re seeing in this thread and others.

We don’t go every year, and the last trip we took was in August of 2012. I can’t speak to the cleanliness of the bathrooms or the CM attitudes of late; however, I am extremely frustrated with the new FP+ system. I also don’t think that in order for my viewpoint to count that I have to have used FP+. I already know that I don’t like the idea of pre-scheduling ride appointments in advance of our trip. Just the word “schedule” is a turn-off. I also don’t like reading that secondary attraction wait times have been increased due to FP+.

Additionally, venting/ complaining about WDW here on the Dis or to Disney directly does not equate to hating WDW or never wanting to return. To the contrary, we care about Disney so much that we’re hoping the complaints actually mean something within the realm of making improvements. Surely as a business Disney would welcome any and all feedback and particularly the negative feedback. That way, they can make improvements as needed.

As for me personally, I realize that FP+ is probably here to stay and will make the best of it on our May trip. However, if I come on the Dis to lament a less-than-Disney experience later, I would hope that fellow Disers would understand that I’m not coming from a position of hate. How is it in the Disney spirit to tell a fellow Disney fan “good riddance” or “more for me” anyway? I would expect a little more understanding.

Thank you this is really well written. This is exactly how I feel and I'm hopeful that things will improve.

 

[Laketravis]

I have to admit that despite my best efforts at frugality I did splurge tonight on a craft beer at Epcot and a Coke Float at HS. What the heck, it was my last night.

For now.


.

 

[goofy4tink]

I've been going to WDW (multiple trips per year) since '99. I own DVC and usually have an AP in hand. BUT......most of us who own DVC feel that Disney really doesn't care too much about us. They have our money, they know we aren't bringing in huge daily purchases when we're there. They know that most of us don't get the dining plan. We're kind of like the red-headed step-child.
Disney tends to focus on the guest that is planning that first time ever trip. They are more prone to spend a ton of money on their room, food and gifts. I know that each time I go back I tend to spend less and less.
While I still feel that WDW is a magical place, it isn't the same as it was when I first started going. That may be due to the crowds. I haven't noticed filthy bathrooms....well, there have been one or two instances, but that wasn't due to lack of maintainence, it was due to bad guest behaviour and a CM not being there immediately. Most of the CMs I have interacted with have been eager to help and been very pleasant. Yes, there have been one or two instances where that wasn't the case..but nothing is 100% perfect all the time.

People keep saying that Disney has to make changes, bring more attractions to the parks. But, they don't like all the construction. You can't have it both ways. And yes, I miss Adventurer's Club....the only reason I can see for that being closed was financial. It must have been expensive paying those actors each night. But, it was a great place to go. Disney will continue to do what is best for Disney...financially. They are going to continue seeing the bottom line. It's a business.

Nothing stays the same. I am sure that there will be people, that are starting to go to WDW now, who will be saying, in 15 years, that things just aren't the same as they were back in 2015! That things are just going downhill. I know that there were people, on various Disney boards, that were saying just that type thing back when I first started going! And I thought it was all quite perfect back in '99!!! But, evidently, for those that had been going for years and years prior to that, it was nowhere as 'magical' as it had been.
It's all about perspective.

 

[North of Mouse]

For every family that says they will never go back, there are thousands more that will.

No matter how many people don't go back, there will always be young families that just have to introduce their princess, or prince, to the magic of Mickey!! Price increases don't seem to enter into the equation!

We are those that are going less, but still go. Just got back from two weeks there, and enjoyed it, but it wasn't like in 'the good ole days'!! LOL We 'are not' the type that plans everything (especially at 180 days - maybe 30), but we did get everything we wanted, had we planned at that 180 mark! We just prefer the way it was!

Have AP's, so will go once more in the next 11 months, then will back off a few years. There are many more places we also enjoy going, so we are definitely not tied to Mickey! We enjoyed Disney the most in the 80's and 90's - lots less crowds, no planning - walked on rides - walked in restaurants!!!

 

[larryz]

And yes, I miss Adventurer's Club....the only reason I can see for that being closed was financial. It must have been expensive paying those actors each night. But, it was a great place to go.

I'll join you in the "I miss the Adventurer's Club" krewe.

Disney will continue to do what is best for Disney...financially. They are going to continue seeing the bottom line. It's a business.

Yes, it's a business. But Disney's business used to be providing family entertainment. Now, it appears, they see their core mission as making money for stockholders.

So when a company does that, they split all their divisions up into "business units," and evaluate each BU as either a revenue center (makes money) or a cost center (provides common services). Cost centers quickly are cut away because they drag down the company's profits. Those that can be eliminated outright go away. Those that provide essential services are often outsourced to drop headcount from the company rolls and reduce immediate and long-term personnel costs. This improves profitability, which in turn increases executive bonuses tied to profitability.

What suffers is customer service and the overall guest experience, which, as WDW, relied heavily on lots of CMs providing common services -- housekeeping, transportation, maintenance, ride operations and the like. While AC was likely reviewed as a revenue center (they sold drinks, and as you surmised, probably at a loss), WDW failed to recognize that it was actually an attraction in its own right. That was the original idea of Pleasure Island -- an "adult" attraction area, hence the entry charge. But somewhere along the way WDW lost track of that concept and Pleasure Island was forced to stand -- or fail -- as a profit center.

 

[kiford]

I don't think Disney wants repeat customers (tourists, not locals, that's a separate issue). Not that they don't want them, sure they will take their money, but I think the target is first-timers.

If that was true, I wouldn't keep getting e-mail offers for the deluxe resorts. We always stay at deluxe resorts and the offers are addressed to me by name so they are obviously targeting me specifically with what we nornally do. I get these 2-3 times per year, more frequently shortly after we go. I think that they're targeting both. They want first timers to become repeat visitors and they want repeat vistiors to continue repeating and to have them spend more by either moving up to more expensive resorts, continue to stay at the expensive reports, and experience tours and other activities that first timers don't do or don't know about.

 

[ArwenMarie]

If that was true, I wouldn't keep getting e-mail offers for the deluxe resorts. We always stay at deluxe resorts and the offers are addressed to me by name so they are obviously targeting me specifically with what we nornally do. I get these 2-3 times per year, more frequently shortly after we go. I think that they're targeting both. They want first timers to become repeat visitors and they want repeat vistiors to continue repeating and to have them spend more by either moving up to more expensive resorts, continue to stay at the expensive reports, and experience tours and other activities that first timers don't do or don't know about.

I totally agree. They want everyone's money, no doubt. They will fill the parks literally to the point that they are teetering on the edge of being dangerous to human life, that is the only point that they close them. They want every hotel room filled, and no, they can't do that with first-timers.

But when I look at what they aren't doing in the parks, it screams to me that the main focus is first-timers. Back to my half-day park example, think about walking into DAK as a first-timer. Tons of stuff to see! Now think of walking in for the tenth time..."They need more rides here." Think how excited the frequent visitors would be if WDW even started changing out the shows, something that costs a fraction of building a ride. But they don't even do that.

 

[Cormoran]

What suffers is customer service and the overall guest experience, which, as WDW, relied heavily on lots of CMs providing common services -- housekeeping, transportation, maintenance, ride operations and the like. While AC was likely reviewed as a revenue center (they sold drinks, and as you surmised, probably at a loss), WDW failed to recognize that it was actually an attraction in its own right. That was the original idea of Pleasure Island -- an "adult" attraction area, hence the entry charge. But somewhere along the way WDW lost track of that concept and Pleasure Island was forced to stand -- or fail -- as a profit center.

I think that eventually Disney will pay for these cut backs. Guests are spending disposable income and they can just as easily spend those dollars elsewhere. I know that Disney is experiencing record attendance. But are their current guests who are in the parks during these crowded days satisfied with the experiences they received for the amount of money they spent?

 

[ArwenMarie]

While AC was likely reviewed as a revenue center (they sold drinks, and as you surmised, probably at a loss), WDW failed to recognize that it was actually an attraction in its own right. That was the original idea of Pleasure Island -- an "adult" attraction area, hence the entry charge. But somewhere along the way WDW lost track of that concept and Pleasure Island was forced to stand -- or fail -- as a profit center.

So true. I even think that with some of the merchandise. Having unique shops with unique merch for people to browse, even if a lot of it doesn't get purchased, can help set the theme and be an attraction of its own. But if they only value a shop as a profit center, then that quality is lost. And then the store turns into a mall store instead of a mini-destination.

 

[maxiesmom]

I totally agree. They want everyone's money, no doubt. They will fill the parks literally to the point that they are teetering on the edge of being dangerous to human life, that is the only point that they close them. They want every hotel room filled, and no, they can't do that with first-timers.

But when I look at what they aren't doing in the parks, it screams to me that the main focus is first-timers. Back to my half-day park example, think about walking into DAK as a first-timer. Tons of stuff to see! Now think of walking in for the tenth time..."They need more rides here." Think how excited the frequent visitors would be if WDW even started changing out the shows, something that costs a fraction of building a ride. But they don't even do that.

Think about how mad not so regular guests would be if they made plans based on shows and attractions and they changed out all of the time.