Losing cusstomers

[Cormoran]

I'm curious to know: what is all this lost magic of which many of you speak? I have been almost every year for a week for the past 10 years -- in the summer even-- and it doesn't feel less magical to me. The only times things annoy me at WDW, it is the behavior of other guests. That is not the fault of the company. And why is it that Disney is doing something "wrong" just because so many people like it that it gets crowded?

The only thing that has lost some magic for me is that the dumbed- down food... I admit that. I think MDE is a great innovation and we feel that FP+ really takes some stress OUT of of day. We love it.

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I don't use the term "lost magic" Instead, I will say that I am paying more and experiencing less. I am not going to provide examples, this has been posted many times before. I'm glad you like MDE and FP+, but for me it has increased the stress and sucked out the spontaneity on our vacations. I am glad others are happy with the changes, but MDE and FP+ does not work for everyone.

 

[Laketravis]

Cost isn't that big a deal for us either, and I agree with those that posted how WDW is still a relative bargain compared to other venues. But it's also about value received, and for some that translates into how much they can accomplish each day and the cost per day to do that. For us, the cost per day was constant or slightly higher each year while we felt we were getting less per day. So we'd actually go more often. Since renewing our annual passes last November, we've been to WDW a total of 30 days so far (16 in Nov/Dec and 14 this month) and plan on probably at least 10 more before the year is over. That brings our WDW per day per person park cost down to roughly $16. We also bought Preferred AP's to USO and have used those for 16 days so far and plan on using them for another 14 before year end, bringing that park per day per person cost down to less than $10.

I understand not everyone can do that - we are emulating somewhat of a local's demographic by making such frequent visits and we have to now work around DS's school schedule so busy holidays and the summer are the only times we can now go, which means it's even more difficult to accomplish as much as we used to each day. So it's not because we hate WDW, it's because we do enjoy it but we no longer stay or eat onsite and the savings have been even more incredible while the food and accommodations (in our opinion) have been much better.

Point is we made substantial changes to the way we would visit WDW which were motivated by the realization that we were slowly accomplishing less and less on each consecutive visit as others have mentioned.

And I have to mention that I must have jinxed the weather when I commented in another thread how it hasn't rained since the 6th because it certainly did last night.

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[HappySnowmanInSummer]

To them I say BYE!

More room for me.

Very nice

Seems rather cold and not in the Disney spirit

No, I really don't think it is. That sentiment has been repeated many times over when this topic comes up.

Just wanted to chime in on this (shared by me) sentiment. I'm not sure why the thought of "that's ok if you don't like what's going on at Disney, just don't go" is frowned upon or is viewed as negative or not in the Disney spirit. On the contrary, trying to convince somebody that they should just be happy with the things they dislike and keep going back is what seems to me to be counter productive and "not in the Disney spirit". To me, the disney spirit is being happy at the parks and feeling just so excited to be there you can't stand it. That is how my wife and I feel when we're there (or planning a trip to be there...or thinking about planning a trip...or pretty much any other time anything Disney world related comes into our brains lol) and it seems to be how millions of others feel as well. But if you don't feel that way then no, I don't think you should go. That's alot of time and money to invest into something that doesn't make you happy or excited. And I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise. Because let's face it, if simply standing on Main Street and soaking it all in doesn't convince you, what chance do I or anybody else really have lol?

So for those of us who love Disney world and making all of the necessary plans and experiencing all the excitement over and over and over again, we will continue to go. And new people and families like us are being created everyday. For those who are turned off by Disney for one reason or another or don't feel like it's magical anymore, I strongly disagree with you, but that's ok! Just don't go and I sincerely hope you find another vacation/experience that does get you super excited.

 

[DisneyFive]

Cost isn't that big a deal for us either, and I agree with those that posted how WDW is still a relative bargain compared to other venues. But it's also about value received, and for some that translates into how much they can accomplish each day and the cost per day to do that. For us, the cost per day was constant or slightly higher each year while we felt we were getting less per day. So we'd actually go more often. Since renewing our annual passes last November, we've been to WDW a total of 30 days so far (16 in Nov/Dec and 14 this month) and plan on probably at least 10 more before the year is over. That brings our WDW per day per person park cost down to roughly $16. We also bought Preferred AP's to USO and have used those for 16 days so far and plan on using them for another 14 before year end, bringing that park per day per person cost down to less than $10.

I understand not everyone can do that - we are emulating somewhat of a local's demographic by making such frequent visits and we have to now work around DS's school schedule so busy holidays and the summer are the only times we can now go, which means it's even more difficult to accomplish as much as we used to each day. So it's not because we hate WDW, it's because we do enjoy it but we no longer stay or eat onsite and the savings have been even more incredible while the food and accommodations (in our opinion) have been much better.

Point is we made substantial changes to the way we would visit WDW which were motivated by the realization that we were slowly accomplishing less and less on each consecutive visit as others have mentioned.

And I have to mention that I must have jinxed the weather when I commented in another thread how it hasn't rained since the 6th because it certainly did last night.

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Very well said. Unfortunately for many of us, going more often just isn't very feasible.

Dan

 

[JimmyV]

I've often wondered what percentage of guests were first timers vs. repeat visitor, and this is the first time I've ever heard an exact number. Where did you find it?

It's a tricky statistic, and like all statistics, can be misleading. Let's take Josh from easywdw as an example. He lives in the area and goes to a park every day, 365 days a year. (Or has someone go for him. I'm not sure if he actually goes or not.) Same with the folks at Touring Plans. They have boots on the ground every day. And remember the uber-thread from Princess Jess on her college program? She was in a park almost every day, or so it seemed. These folks (and every other Florida resident with an annual pass who flips the turnstile day after day) count, statistically, as "repeat guests". So Josh, all by himself, offsets 365 first time guests. In other words, if you take 366 people who enter a park during the course of a year and 365 of them are first timers, and one of them is Josh, you have a total of 730 "individual park admissions". 365 are first timers and 365 are Josh, (who is a returning guest) for a percentage of 50% returning guests. What would be an interesting statistic to know would be, what percentage of people staying in on-site resorts are repeat guests and what is the average number of visits that they have made?

Let's be honest here. WDW has been open for almost 50 years. The fact that someone is a "repeat guest" isn't all that impressive. That's like saying that 70% of all people who shop at Walmart have shopped at a Walmart before. If someone went once in 1987 and again in 2011, sure, they are a "repeat guest". But so what? With all the changes that have taken place, they may as well be a first timer. I think that what ellie05 is missing is the difference between a repeat guest and a habitual guest. Are 70% of WDW visitors habitual guests? Of course not. And habitual guests do find cost saving strategies that occasional guests do not. In many instances, it is the only thing that allows them to be habitual guests. I suppose that there are habitual guests who spend as if it were their "once in a lifetime" visit, with a suite at the Grand Floridian every year, and the Deluxe Dining Package. But isn't it more likely that habitual guests have different spending habits? Isn't there a specific Board on this site for cost saving strategies? Who do you think contributes more to those discussions--first time guests, occasional guests, or habitual guests? As hard as this may be for some to swallow, in the hospitality industry (when it is running on all cylinders in a good economy), businesses care less about the habitual guest who has "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt" and more about the pie-eyed first timer who wants to "experience it all". Who do you think eats dinner in their room more often--DVC owners on their 25th visit, or the family on their first visit?

 

[lugnut33]

“Well, I think by this time my staff are convinced that Walt is right. That quality will win out. And so I think they’re going to stay with that policy because it’s proved that it’s a good business policy. Give the people everything you can give them. Keep the place as clean as you can keep it. Keep it friendly, you know. Make it a real fun place to be. I think they’re convinced and I think they’ll hang on after… as you say… well… after Disney.” - Walt Disney

I just believe that current management has lost focus and is concentrating on generating as much profit as possible. It pains me when I hear Disney fans say they are OK with that because it's a business first. Well yes it's a business, but that business was built on the Walt Disney quote I posted above.

 

[disneymagicgirl]

For my family, we have gone annually and after our Mid November 2014 trip we decided we need a break. We intentionally choose low crowd times and pull out kids from school. With FP+ it doesn't matter if it is low crowd...even walk on rides now have lines, the walkways are crowded, etc. we just didn't feel the magic this trip and none of us (even me the Disnerd) have any desire to rush back. Planning to do some other trips the next few years until things improve at wdw. Hopefully opening some new rides/lands will alleviate some of the overcrowding and make it exciting for us again. I wI'll just have to suck it up as far as the annoying over scheduling is concerned b/c it seems here to stay, but that is a big deterrent as well. Guess we have gone from an annual family to a every 3-5 yrs family. We will continue to do dcl (when I can find a reasonable rate) and would like to try DL at some point as well. I don't know what year we will go back but it isn't even a thought in my head anytime soon. Such a bummer.

 

[Ozzygirl]

My parents took us for the first time in 1976. There were 5 kids and my Dad drove a truck for a living, (RIP Daddy) so they saved for our trips. I have such great memories of WDW. I continued to go every other year, sometime each year until 2000. There was a 11 year period that I did not go at all. I went back in 2013 and it still had that magic for me. It was as beautiful and special as it ever was. It was a different for sure though. I took my DH for his first visit in Oct and he loved it and I'm heading back with my Mom in a month. After that we won't be back until 2017. Not because it has lost it's magic but because there is a great big beautiful world out there to see. (See what I did there??? ) I think if I went 2-3 times year every year I would see more of the negative, sort of like ice cream is a great treat but if you ate it all day every day you'd not enjoy it as much. Every one is different I suppose but to me it will always be my happy place no matter the price or what silly FP system it has.

 

[Laketravis]

Excellent points. The habitual guest is likely to be the least profitable. Best case for WDW is an MK filled with 50,000 one day ticket guests for a baseline admittance revenue of slightly more than $5M. It only goes down from there with multiple day tickets and AP's. 50/50? Then we are down to $2.5M plus whatever day that multiday ticket guest is on and how many days the AP holders have already been. Everything is its own profit center at WDW, and it would be interesting to know just what the daily per-guest average admittance value is. I'm positive Disney knows what it is, but we never will although I'm sure it would illustrate the need for beau coup pretzel and Dole Whip sales.

It's a tricky statistic, and like all statistics, can be misleading. Let's take Josh from easywdw as an example. He lives in the area and goes to a park every day, 365 days a year. (Or has someone go for him. I'm not sure if he actually goes or not.) Same with the folks at Touring Plans. They have boots on the ground every day. And remember the uber-thread from Princess Jess on her college program? She was in a park almost every day, or so it seemed. These folks (and every other Florida resident with an annual pass who flips the turnstile day after day) count, statistically, as "repeat guests". So Josh, all by himself, offsets 365 first time guests. In other words, if you take 366 people who enter a park during the course of a year and 365 of them are first timers, and one of them is Josh, you have a total of 730 "individual park admissions". 365 are first timers and 365 are Josh, (who is a returning guest) for a percentage of 50% returning guests. What would be an interesting statistic to know would be, what percentage of people staying in on-site resorts are repeat guests and what is the average number of visits that they have made?

Let's be honest here. WDW has been open for almost 50 years. The fact that someone is a "repeat guest" isn't all that impressive. That's like saying that 70% of all people who shop at Walmart have shopped at a Walmart before. If someone went once in 1987 and again in 2011, sure, they are a "repeat guest". But so what? With all the changes that have taken place, they may as well be a first timer. I think that what ellie05 is missing is the difference between a repeat guest and a habitual guest. Are 70% of WDW visitors habitual guests? Of course not. And habitual guests do find cost saving strategies that occasional guests do not. In many instances, it is the only thing that allows them to be habitual guests. I suppose that there are habitual guests who spend as if it were their "once in a lifetime" visit, with a suite at the Grand Floridian every year, and the Deluxe Dining Package. But isn't it more likely that habitual guests have different spending habits? Isn't there a specific Board on this site for cost saving strategies? Who do you think contributes more to those discussions--first time guests, occasional guests, or habitual guests? As hard as this may be for some to swallow, in the hospitality industry (when it is running on all cylinders in a good economy), businesses care less about the habitual guest who has "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt" and more about the pie-eyed first timer who wants to "experience it all". Who do you think eats dinner in their room more often--DVC owners on their 25th visit, or the family on their first visit?

 

[gemologygal]

My parents took us for the first time in 1976. There were 5 kids and my Dad drove a truck for a living, (RIP Daddy) so they saved for our trips. I have such great memories of WDW. I continued to go every other year, sometime each year until 2000. There was a 11 year period that I did not go at all. I went back in 2013 and it still had that magic for me. It was as beautiful and special as it ever was. It was a different for sure though. I took my DH for his first visit in Oct and he loved it and I'm heading back with my Mom in a month. After that we won't be back until 2017. Not because it has lost it's magic but because there is a great big beautiful world out there to see. (See what I did there??? ) I think if I went 2-3 times year every year I would see more of the negative, sort of like ice cream is a great treat but if you ate it all day every day you'd not enjoy it as much. Every one is different I suppose but to me it will always be my happy place no matter the price or what silly FP system it has.

That was really beautifully stated!

For us, going to WDW makes my younger brother and I feel closer to the memory of our dad because we vacationed there a couple of times back in the 80s as kids. My husband and I honeymooned there and that was his first time going back since childhood and he was blown away. Blown away so much that we returned a few more times and brought along my mom and brother and we had a great time. Unfortunately, the annual increase in cost is what gets us, despite the magic still being there, because everyone in my group has the mindset of, "oh, well it cost $XXXX the last time we went so that's what we should budget for again this time around..." and that makes planning a bit more difficult when everyone wants to stay again at the same place and buy into the DDP again. I'm currently trying to creatively nail down the right time to stay since my job limits the times of year I can be away from the office and also nail down a place to stay at where we will all be happy while still respecting everyone's budgets. It's no easy feat but I'm determined.

 

[Andysol]

No one goes to Disney anymore because it's too crowded

 

[Flight]

Huge crowds visiting the parks. Ticket prices at a very high level. On site hotels full year around. According to the powers that be, there is nothing wrong with the Disney experience. In fact, they probably believe all that magic is due to their managing the Disney empire.

However, having spent a lot of time there over the years, both as a youngster and adult, there is a change for me in the entire experience. But my perceptions are going to be different from those that have just recently been going to Disney. For them it may be magical with no reservations.

By the way, a pox on the FastPass+ system.

 

[Mickey&Mouse]

By the way, a pox on the FastPass+ system.

Bears repeating

 

[rwdavis2]

Going to WDW is a lot like and expedition to Mt. Everest. They both require extensive planning, lots of money, and stamina.

 

[kbelle8995]

By the way, a pox on the FastPass+ system.

I'd like to double that. A Double pox on the FP+ system

 

[Gary M]

Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.

Yogi Berra

 

[ArwenMarie]

I don't think Disney wants repeat customers (tourists, not locals, that's a separate issue). Not that they don't want them, sure they will take their money, but I think the target is first-timers. I'm just working backwards from what they are doing, or not doing, with the parks and resorts. First-timers don't know that the food used to be better, that the parks used to have more parades and entertainment, that the shows are old. Even take Animal Kingdom, a park that many people say is a half-day park. Or even DHS. They are only half-day parks if you have seen all of the shows and don't have any desire to see them again. But for a first-timer, they are brand new! Why put in a new show? Why not quietly take that parade out? Or maybe cut back on that bathroom cleaning schedule a bit. Or change out that chicken for a cheaper cut. First-timers won't see the decline.

Disney only has to sell the first-timer once. If they are disappointed, so what, they got their business for the big once-in-a-lifetime vacation. Or let's say even people who go a few times as their kids are growing up, but not anywhere close to yearly. Disney will literally go to the ends of the earth to find more first-timers.

Repeat customers are cranky.

 

[bookgirl]

Nature of doing business, you evolve and customers come and go, as long as customers keep coming then they keep doing business.

If people are right and it's going to decrease their business then in a few years things will swing back the other way and change, until then you adapt or move on.

No one says you have to be happy about it, or continue to do business with Disney, heck no one says you can't rant about it. But in the grand scheme of things I just ignore the hue and cry and the super Pollyanna and I make my own choice on my own experiences.

Right now Disney works for me and I can work Disney. If it changes then I will change how I do or do not do vacations.

 

[W.E.D.]

While I have no doubt that many of the complaints of long time repeat customers are valid (having myself gone for the first time in 2013, I can't say), there is an old saying that I think somewhat applies here: Familiarity breeds contempt.

When you go to the same place multiple times a year for many years, it's going to lose some of its appeal, and changes that inevitably happen have a good chance of disappointing you, as well.

This is a valid point. The few chances I've had to visit in back to back years, that second visit lost some of the magic.

 

[Kristina4109]

I'd love to see the statistics on how many first timers are in a park on a specific day vs. how many repeat guests.