Live within your means

[Zoesmama03]

I seem to agree if you have cut out everything and it sounds like you guys are really frugal with a 200K miles car that your housing may be on the too much side. So you may look for answers there. Get out of it if you can and into something cheaper then you can pay off the debt and then save for a dream house once your wife has found work she can do in school hours.

Ask around your family and friends someone may have a extra bed in a guest room they are willing to loan you until you save for a new one. Even a queen size air mattress would get you by. I slept on one before and it was not bad at all. It blew up to a good height too.

I have found that life does go on without television. I don't even own one actually. The tv in the house is my brothers. It can't even hook to the antenna he has without a digital box. The only way I watch cable anyway is through dvr(never have time to watch shows at the time they come on) which cost a lot more but I have found hulu to fill in dvd rentals for entertainment. Internet is truly the only thing I would splurge on.

Being unemployed has definitely shown me the meaning of bare bones shelter, food and water. I had to live without a bed for months. The floor isn't so bad and if you back is hurting it would probably do good over the bed. Try the mattress straight on the floor too. It may support it more.

 

[sk!mom]

It's really hard to know what would help your situation without knowing more information.

If your wife returned to work and you're still struggling then I can think of a couple of reasons.

First thing that comes to mind is, Are you sure that you're really living within your means? The biggest area that many people have overspent in recent years is their mortgage. Is your home more than you can afford? If it is, then your only solution may be to sell and move to something you can afford. As an example, our home is now paid off but during the time that we had one, our mortgage was only about 5% of our household income. Mortgage, taxes, utilities were only about 10%. That freed up a lot of income for other things. To do that though, we live in a modest home for our income.

If you are driving old worn out cars, can't afford a mattress, or other necessities then you need a bigger change then just cutting a few extras. We just had friends sell their beautiful upscale home for something more modest because they realized that their home was keeping them from doing things that they would enjoy more.

If your home is within your means then it's possible that you just aren't earning enough for the life you want. If that's the case then the only solution is to earn more with a second job, career change, more schooling...

 

[PrncesKMW]

It looks like I'm the 5th person to say it, but Dave Ramsey is absolutely wonderful.

I make over $50k a year and couldn't figure why, with a paid off older car and a very small rent payment, I never had any money left over a few days before the next paycheck. Reading Dave's book "Total Money Makeover" really helped me put not only spending in perspective, but also gave me my new favorite saying - "Stop trying to keep up with the Joneses - they're broke!"

 

[gillenkl]

If you can't get the new mattress work on helping the mattress you have. As another poster said - put plywood between the mattress and boxspring. Buy an eggcrate pad (maybe even 2). We have done this in the past and it does help until you can get the new one.

It's hard to give advice without knowing every detail of your income and spending. It sounds like you're having trouble building up savings and your emergency fund. Dave Ramsey is a good idea - you can always borrow his books from the library to get a better idea of what it's about.

 

[crisi]

There are two sides of the equation, income and outgo. If you can't make ends meet on the outgo side, you need to increase your income. If you can't increase your income, you have to cut on the outgo. If you can do both, it moves faster.

Don't worry too much about how "other" people do it. Other people have lower expenses or higher incomes.

I'm not a fan of Dave Ramsey the man either. But his approach does work.

 

[ReneeA]

To be honest with you, the only way we have been able to dig ourselves out of a big hole is for me to go back to school for a more useful degree. I wasn't using my original one and had stopped working to have kids.

Unfortunately, we had some family tragedy that made me aware of how much I would love to work in the medical field. I felt a really strong calling toward it, and we really suffered financially to put me through nursing school. It was super tough, especially when DH was laid off midway through. We stuck it out, and now that I'm working as a RN in a job that I adore, our income has more than doubled.

It's going to take us about another year to dig out of the huge amount of debt that we incurred, but at least there's now progress.

Any thought to changing fields to something more lucrative and in demand?

 

[leebee]

Regarding the cars... DH drives a 1989 volvo with 210K+ miles on it, and I was driving a 1997 plymouth grand voyager minivan with 226K+ miles on it. The minivan was going to need $3000 of repair work to pass the fall inspection, and then I'd still be stuck with a badly-rusting, heavily bondo'd minivan with 230K miles on it. We looked at replacing it and were very surprised. I hadn't thought we could afford it, but we ended up with a 1997 grand caravan with 54K miles. They came down in price, we put down $1500, and they gave us $1200 trade in allowance for the old van. I WAS IN SHOCK! There is no way we could have sold that van for anything, given the condition of the body and the amount of work needing to be done. They very simply wanted to move their stock. In fact, today I saw our old van at the "wholesale" lot. I don't remember right now what we finally financed (bad, I know), but the most important thing to me was having a monthly payment that we could afford. We've ended up with $238 a month for 5 years at 4.85% interest- pretty shocking in and of itself, for a vehicle, but what can you do? Like I said, unfortunately we had to go with what we could afford, and yes I need the minivan... small car won't do, but really even the small cars were expensive.

ANyhow, I guess what I am saying is I didn't think we'd be able to afford the vehicle we need, but it was possible and within our payment ability. Go looking- you might be surprised. Just know what you can afford per month and be firm about it. Be willing to find a car with fewer bells and whistles, too.

 

[MrsPete]

FIRST: with just this limited information to go upon, I'd say that one of these things must be going on:

- You don't have enough income to live comfortably -- if so, the only answer is to work more hours, or to work at a job that pay smore.
- You have over-spent on your mortgage, which doesn't leave enough for other necessities -- if so, the answer is to downsize, although that requires more expenditure.
- You have significant consumer debt (i.e., credit cards or other loans) -- if so, the only option is to sacrafice today's wants and needs to pay for those you've already enjoyed.
- You are spending more on daily things (i.e., groceries, fast food) than you can afford -- if so, a budget to keep these things in line might be the answer.

I'm only guessing at things that often hold people back. Which is most close to true for you?

SECOND: You said that you planned and paid for the vacation. How did you do that?

THIRD: You're making excuses with the car. How often does she really need to drive the kids to school with projects larger than they are? And a 10-year old car really has no remaining value. Ditching the second car until you're in a better financial position may not be a convenient choice, but it may be the right answer. We only had one car for the first three years of our marriage (and we lived way out in the country, so it wasn't easy), and it was really the one big thing that helped us get a good financial start. Could she drop you off at work a couple days a week, especially on her day off? If she's taking care of her mother, could she drive her mother's car? Remember, getting rid of one car doesn't have to be a forever-thing, but it will help you out of the current situation.

Has your wife considered driving a school bus? It takes care of the need for transportation to/from her job, and it gets rid of the night job.

 

[SunnieRN]

First off, financial stress sucks!! It is a constant stress you can't get away from..... until you have a plan.

I am always curious how adding to an income doesn't seem to help the overall picture. It's strange, for sure. It seems like the more you make, the more expenses incurred. (I mean this in general, not directed to you personally).

First off, with you both working have you changed your eating patterns, ie: more convenience foods, fast foods, eating out? Those are all huge budget busters for sure!

The "no buy" thread is really helpful. Posting what you spend daily, can make a huge difference in stopping up the leaks in the budget.

If you are "house poor", you don't HAVE to sell. If your mortgage payment is equal to or less than current rental rates where you live, you may want to think of leasing your house to someone, as you can keep an eye on your property. If you have a surplus of income from your "rental", you can use that to finish your siding, etc. Usually you can rent an apartment, townhouse or smaller house for less $$$. Unfortunately, in many parts of the country, house sales have floundered as the rental market has become more comprtative.

Best of luck!! As for the bed situation, I slept with a mattress on the floor while I was in nursing school. Never slept better, actually.

Forgot a thought. The first year of a cars life naturally comes with HUGE depreciation. Think of car max or like companies, who sell mainly 1-2 year old rental cars at huge discounts. We bought an HHR, less than 1 year old. Dealer sticker price $21,700., car max $12,700.

 

[Virgderon]

Agreed that there is a fundamental problem here- and not knowing the reasons for it makes it impossible to offer advice.

One thing I can tell you is not to let others opinions of you influence your decisions- if your housing costs are too high don't let your ego get in the way of downsizing.

If you have a credit card problem, call your creditors and get on hardship programs or put your cards in a Consumer credit counseling program.

Get real with yourself- are you eating at McDonalds twice a week? Do you get Starbucks or eat lunch out every day? Do you spend more than you should at the grocery store? Do you have more than basic cable?

If you write down everything you spend in a month, you might be surprised at how much you are spending on discretionary items.

I was. That is why I am doing the no buy thread on this forum now- it keeps me honest.

(Sunnie! We were writing almost the same thing at almost the same time! I guess "no buy" people think alike!)

 

[TxRabbit]

These situations are difficult to minister to because even with as much as you have shared, the heart of the matter has yet to be uncovered.

I understand how unexpected expenses arise. You mention the washer, the dryer, etc. So many in a row and they add up. We had this happen to my vehicle. The transmission went out on it. It sat in the garage for months on end while we waited and waited to be able to deal with it. We sucked it up and lived with one car.

Finally, we used our tax refund to fix it. It was expensive. The next month, it was the alternator. Fixed that. The next month, the driver side door stuck. Couldn't open the door. I was at a friend's house. I climbed over from the passenger side. When we got home, the door opened, but then it wouldn't shut. The latch was busted. DH finally got the door to stick again. A stuck door is a drivable door. Unstuck, um not so much. It should've been cheap to fix, but with auto door locks and a security system, another $400. So I climbed into the driver's seat from the passenger side for over ONE YEAR.

It was hilarious 6 months into the year. One of the back windows slid down. The window mechanism busted and wouldn't support the window and it just slide right down. Well we taped it all up so the rain wouldn't get in (we lived in an apt at the time and the car wasn't garaged.). We stopped using that door because I was worried the window would rattle and actually break, so DS had to get into the car on the driver's side and I had to get in on the passenger side and climb over. For safety reasons, and because the part was super cheap and DH could fix it, we fixed the window. But the driver door remained stuck until we got rid of the car.

My point is that some expenses are necessary, but some aren't even if the result is a complete and total PITA. KWIM? Laundromats aren't convenient, but in the long run, using one may keep your budget better, depending on what is going wrong. When something comes up, you really have to analyze whether or not the spending is a necessity or not.

It's frustrating. No doubt about it. This wasn't the only time that our family has been reduced to a single car. It's happened more times than I care to talk about, this was just the most recent time.

I would suggest getting the inspection done sooner than later to see if you really have an issue there. You can guess that you won't pass, but until you try, you don't know for certain. DH's truck had a constant issue, known and unfixable (unless we got a new engine) which caused the check engine light to go on. No pass inspection with the check engine light on. We took our chances and were driving with an outdated inspection sticker for months. DH drove to work over 120 miles round trip, we just couldn't have one car only this time. We only drove to and from work, commuting only during major traffic times. I happened to be driving it on the one day and I noticed that the light was off and had been off for at least 60 miles that I knew about (it takes about 80 for the engine systems to reset I think), so I pulled into the inspection station I knew about and lo and behold, I got a sticker. We were legal again. Thank the Lord, because the light popped back on later that day. My point is that sometimes, you just have to deal with things in the best way you can without spending money.

As to the mattress situation. I totally understand. This product is a good one:

http://www.amazon.com/Mattress-Savi...1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1279490985&sr=8-1

We got it and the adjustments that you can make to it really help to give support to a failing mattress. We are still using the mattress that we bought this for years later.

You aren't alone. We've all been there.

HTH.

 

[DCLbrideSept2009]

I disagree that used cars end up costing more than new cars. A little over 2 years ago, I bought a 1999 Honda Accord EX for $5800 CASH. I think I have put no more than $1,000 into it in the past 2+ years. And that's including regular maintenance, tires, etc, which you have to do with a new OR used car. I think it has about 175,000 or so miles on it now.

 

[Judique]

So, we have been struggling trying to pay off debt. We want to start, but can't figure out where to start. Our debt isn't from excess. We have a 1996 TV, we don't have cell phones, we don't have fancy cars, we don't have luxuries. When Wifey went back to work, we figured we'd be able to catch up just fine and planned a very much needed first vacation in our family's 14 year history, including the honeymoon we never took. Planned the vacation, paid for the vacation, then didn't get ahead like we thought.

Can't seem to get ahead. Every month something goes wrong. Washing machine, dryer, stove, car repairs, etc, etc.

I sit here in agony and pain. I can barely move, barely walk, barely stand the back pain. Why? The bed. The bed is absolutely terrible. We need a new bed in a bad way. I can barely make it through the day at work with the back pain. I know it's the bed. Yet, there's no money for a bed if we "live within our means."

Car inspection is coming up in 2 months. The car has nearly 200k miles on it. I know it's not going to pass. Our "new" car just didn't pass and needed money put into it. Not much, but it was money we didn't have if we were to "live within our means." The 2nd car, which is my work car, needs a lot of body work, brakes, tires, a lot of stuff. It has 200k miles on it. Mechanically it is good, but 200,000 miles is the end of a cars life due to corrosion where I live. It will cost me a fortune to keep this car, a fortune that we don't have if we were to "live within our means."

My wife wants to get out of the working nights rut. Our youngest will be in 1st grade, which means she will now be in school all day (we still had half-day kindergarten.) She would like to see her children during the school year. She would like to see her husband more than 15 minutes a day. Her husband would like to see her more than 15 minutes per day. During school as it is, she sees the girls about 15 minutes per day. She can't go grocery shopping, can't take the girls to school in the mornings when they have projects to carry that are bigger than they are, can't take care of her mother on her days off, can't work while the kids are in school, etc if she doesn't have a car. Thus, we need 2 cars.

So, it is time to replace my car. But, we can't do it if we were to "live within our means." I sit here with the printout of what my bank will give a loan for depending on interest rates, terms, and age of a car and there are no used cars that will stay "within our means" with the payments I would be able to afford. It would cost the same payment wise if I were to buy brand new compared to the payment under the bank terms if I were to buy a used 2007, 06, 05, 04, etc. etc. It never makes sense to me to replace one car that constantly needs money put into it for another car that constantly needs money put into it. We've found out long ago, buying 5 years old, paying for 5 years, driving for 5 years, and trading when it's 15 years old for nothing costs a lot more than buying new, paying 5 years, driving 5 years and trading when it's worth something 10 years old.

We want to start a savings account to save up an "emergency fund." We plan to put a mere $20 away from each paycheck until it reaches the emergency level, which is $20 that we need. We are in desperate need of a new bed so we can get decent sleep to work the next day without being in pain. We need a new car so I can get to work while she is using her car to get to work. We need a new roof on the house. And we need to buy more siding boards to finish our 3 year house project of reinsulating and replacing the water damaged siding.

How do you "mean income" people do all this "living within your means" stuff? If I was to live within my means, we would no longer have any car, we wouldn't have anything to eat, and we wouldn't have any heat in the dead of winter.

I think it can get better for you. You have some special skills. Not everyone can do what you do. Give it time.

 

[windycitymom]

Someone on my local Freecycle was giving away a Queensize mattress today. You can post for what you "want" and what you want to "offer" (give away for free). Someone posted they wanted a cell phone, and I just happened to have an unused cell phone sitting around that I gave to a young mom with a two-year son.

We need a new mattress new too, but in the meantime we bought a mattress topper from Overstock for around $100 (the mattress that I want will be $600 plus).

Do you belong to a church? Let them know what you need, and someone may help you. The people at our church are just so willing to help people in need.

I find it best to focus on the positive and always be grateful for what you have....anybody want to trade places with the tent people in Haiti? Yes, you (I mean all of us) have it better than most people on this planet. Watch Extreme Home Makeover if you want to cry over people in need. Did you wake up alive today? Praise the Lord! There is a saying: I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet.

I hope that helps...

 

[hanutedmansionmomma]

Sorry things are happening at once OP! You are not alone!! Things are always coming up for all of us. We take a break from pay down mode when major things come up. You have to!

I believe I live within my means. To me, this means that I make more than I spend each month. This also means I am actively paying down debt with the extra $ each month and/or using that $ to purchase things that come up, house repairs, go on vacation, etc. (we don't pay down that month(s)).

I know exactly what I am spending and bringing in. I have an excel spreadsheet - and I would recommend that for you too!

If you make more than you spend, there's a way to do this.

Become a real consumer of material things...do you really need a whole new mattress set or maybe would a 2.5" foam top get you by for another year or 2? We just got one (Sam's $100, queen), and it's been great! I look at it like I just saved myself $600+, or at least put it off for a while.

Make a list of priorities, start chunking away at debt (I start with the small balance first, you see progress faster that way). Shop around for the best deal as far as interest when you do take on debt.

Now cars, I say drive them until they stop working, and it sounds like you've done just that Maybe to keep a payment low you could lease? Ugh, it's hard to even type that word! You just get hosed for so much $ when the lease is up...BUT it looks like you are looking for low payment, and it might be budget friendly.

Could your wife work in the schools? paraprofessional? library aide? lunch goddess? The hours and days off would be ideal (I know... I work in a school!)

Good luck and let us know how it goes

 

[EKW]

About the bed: you can buy a new decent mattress...name brand...at most thrift stores.

About the car: I just traded in my 15 year old Sentra that had 123K miles, but was edging up on engine failure, for a 2006. Before you shake your head...I was offered coverage on it for 5 years. For $20 a month I get free oil changes for life and anything mechanical...ANYTHING...that goes wrong during that time costs me $50! Engine failure...$50. New heads...$50. It's a better deal than I would have gotten with a new car.

Since you don't have big expenses, start looking at the little ones. It may take getting really creative to deal with the issue, but try to find some way to put enough money into savings every month to deal with those "unexpected" issues. One easy way to do that is to decrease the number of deductions on your paychecks. When you get your refund in February, put it into a savings account. I think that's the answer for those of us who live on cash...have enough in savings to deal with the occasional crisis so that money doesn't come out of the regular household budget.

Good luck!

 

[a1tinkfans]

Sorry OP! Life is often not easy or simple! So many people in similar situations........

I recently had a conversation with my ds who will be off to college soon.......I told him that I was the first child in my family to go to college, how my friend was getting a Shiny new camaro (instead of putting that money towards school) and working at the local grocery store. Gosh that car was a beauty. Me, I had the family station wagon and had to drop mom off at work, go to school, then go pick her up and then I worked nights to pay for that college education...which promptly went into my marriage a few short years later.
The choices we each make every single day impact our futures and the futures of our children. It was hard to do what I did, and state it only to show that in the Long run, that darn college education paid off for me...I worked hard (as I am quite sure you are doing) and with "goals set" both short and long time, am able to say that our life has been very blessed indeed. Has it been easy, no, losing a child, losing parents, battling cancer, the list goes on and on..........but it all takes determination and I DO BELIEVE that where there is a WILL there is a WAY!
So, the ds who wants that camaro now (funny how its the same car so many years later) was told he'll be driving the older Explorer and our $$ will instead go towards HIS education (tho the dh and I hope for some scholarship $ )...so down the line he can Get that Vehicle/whatever he really wants.....
Sometimes making even "good" decisions do not pan out.....I know that and understand it.........but thats how LIFE IS...and better to be HERE in this LIFE than the alternative!

My thoughts are: despite both working hard and resenting (rightfully so) the serious lack of family time, the housing situation MAY just be over your head. (and taking its toll on your family!)
Have you considered down sizing.....the goal is to get an easier handle on your expenses, cut the costs....
perhaps you need to reach out to your local gov't agencies to see what assistance they can offer you as well.
Basics of food and shelter are necessities that you really cannot reduce without serious dedication......it may be that "tough" decision you all need to make in order to "lift" the burdens that seem to be an every day situation versus, intermittent, unexpected events. Its no way to live and not healthy for anyone! You certainly do not live extravagant, BUT, you are both also NOT making enough $$ to live your CURRENT lifestyle, and all the issues (car, mattress, washer) that follow us all unfortunately ....I pray your family all has GOOD health!!!!
Are you able to get a Temporary second job for a while to "soften" the difficulties you now have?
Is there a local family member that can help you all out?
Any way to pick up additional hours? Sell off any unwanted or un-needed things you have?

There is no easy answer, no simple wand to wave, but your honest, thought provoking, and heartfelt post IS a good REMINDER to all of us that ALL LIFE CHOICES have LONG impacts...............get the best education you can, work hard, Share your knowledge, earn that money and live a life that is filled with pride and honesty. Despite doing everything right OP, life STILL throws us ALL curves. (as it sounds life is doing to you right now) I really want to wish you the very best of luck in getting your home situation in a better place for your family!

 

[disykat]

The sad part about "living within your means" is that is doesn't mean you're living without luxuries. The hard and fast rule of living within your means is spending less than you take in, period. Sadly, it doesn't matter how much you do without - if you are still short, you're not living within your means.

It's hard when you're doing everything possible and still can't make it.

 

[hollypoast]

Here's hoping thing turn around for you, OP. I agree with many of the suggestions given so far. I am an active participate on freecycle.com so I'd second that one.

Not sure if you would be interested in a freegan lifestyle but I find it interesting. Lisa Ling was on Oprah last year sharing her report on freegans. You can google it to find out more. My husband has forbid me from dumpster diving however if it meant no Disney I'd certainly try it.

Here is the link to the Oprah show on Freeganism:
http://www.oprah.com/world/How-Far-Would-You-Go

Sending good Karma your way!

 

[TnTWalter]

You will never get ahead if you keep justifying making payments on a car that goes down in value the minute you drive it off the lot. You can find a great reliable ugly grandma car. Or make the repairs to your wife's car and keep driving it. The money you spend to fix it is far less than the money you dump into a new car. PERIOD.

You are fooling yourself if you belive a $20k car loan is financially better than a $5k reliable used car.

Let's pretend you are able to scrape together somehow $2-3k in the next 6 months to buy a reliable ugly used car on craigslist to get you from point A to point B. If you are ready to make a car payment of around $400 a month it would be easy to scrape $2-3k together.

BUT WAIT.....

Since you were going to BUY A NEW CAR....let's take what your car payment would have been...let's use $400 again for fun...take that $400 and put it in savings marked 'car fund' for a year...you were going make payments to a car loan anyway right?

Now if an emergency comes up with the car, you have the 'car fund' to use. But what if there's no issues in a year? 12 months go by and you now have $4800 in your 'car fund'.

Now you can upgrade cars again....go ahead and sell the $2-3k car on craigslst or what have you [not trade in to dealer]. let's pretend you get $1k....so now you have $4800 that you saved plus $1k that you made on the car...$5800 to buy another 'new to you' vehicle....we're getting better....not quite so embarrassing to drive now.

In the meantime....your back hurts. The bed sucks. The floor might be better or even a $20 air mattress to tide you over. And how about some core exercises to strengthen the muscles in stomach and back. Always helps. Can't hurt.

Now that a year has passed and you've upgraded cars....hmmmm.

New mattresses aren't much. You don't need a tempurpedic or some nonesense. A good $200 mattress....You could do that in less than 1 month of 'car fund' or splurge and spend the whole month's worth.

Now you can go back to the 'car upgrade' fund [that's what we call it].
Keep plugging $400 into it or lessen it if you have other debt to tackle.

Do you see the power when you get rid of the 'EEYORE' syndrome....'Woe is me. I'm never going to get ahead. The little man can't win.'

It is HARD. It is NOT fun. It is NOT normal. It is how you WIN. You can do it!!

In addition to immediately running to the Library and getting Total Money makeover, I suggest also getting 'Millionaire next Door', it's a great easy read. That author has another one 'Stop acting rich.'

If the library is out of TMMO, pm me.

OK...and if your combined salary is poverty level [$22k for family of 4], it's a good time to find a new career or supplement your income anyway possible.

regarding the $1k emergency fund....
It took us several months to build up $1k in emergency funds when we started several years ago. And as soon as I hit $1k and was so excited...within 1 week 2 $500 emergencies came up....LOL. But I had the cash and didn't add to the debt. And it was easier to build it back up the 2nd time! I think I was being tested to see how serious I was this time.

Best of luck. You can do it. You've been smacked around a bit. Time to brush yourself off and climb back on that horse.

Trish