Lethargic 10 yr old .. input PLEASE

[gopherit]

Ok. this may be long, my posts always are, but when it somes to my kids, they REALLY are.

Here's the deal: 10 yr old son, granted not the livest wire around (he's much more subdued than say, his 8 yr old brother or 4 yr old sis). But still, a 10 yr old, into sports, school, scouts, etc. Until this year, always a fairly healthy kid, too -- didn't even get his first cold until age 1, and whenever the rest of the house had the flu, you could bet that he would either not get it (or have a much milder case). HOWEVER... while he may have inherited my seemingly great immune system, he has his dad's pain tolerance (read that as LOW). Evan complains about tags in his shirt, or two grains of sand in his toes, or too much chocolate in the hot cocoa... you might say he's a bit OC, even. So when he came down with a sore throat in Jan., he acted like he had swallowed a 2x4. Well, I took him to the dr -- turns out he had strep. Hmm... Maybe his threshold isn't as low as I thought, because strep can be fairly nasty and he had been a real trooper. It was soon after that he had some blood drawn for a physical. The dr noted he had slightly low iron -- wanted to do a CBC to determine if he was borderline anemic. It was at this same time (over the period of Nov/Dec/Jan) that I felt he had become even less peppy than normal. He was so draggy, and after a basketball game would basically crash on the couch. He was still getting 10 hrs of sleep (deep sleep) each night, yet hard to wake, and realllly hard to get moving. He had stomach flu in Nov (Thanksgiving), strep in Jan. and then a resp infection in Feb.

So back to the bloodwork. His RBC, hemoglobin and hematocrit all came back as just outside (low) normal range. His MCV,MCH and MCHC all came back within normal range (but all towards the same lower side of the scale). Now I know, I know -- those are the "normal" ranges and just because you aren't inside them doesn't mean you're in critical shape. He didn't have any results that screamed problems. His white count was at the lower end of the normal range -- eveything else in the bloodwork was essentially normal, except for the EOS in his white count (slightly high outside normal range -- but again, not screamingly out of the ballpark). His dr doesn't feel he's anemic, nor does he need any special iron meds, just a good healthy diet. This is my salad kid, though -- he loves his carrots, leafy greens, fruits, broccolli. He's not a huge meat eater (no fan of chicken or other birds / pigs), but he does eat steak and roast beef when we have it. Meanwhile, his healthy as a horse good-iron brother eats NO veggies, no fruits, wouldn't eat a leafy green if you paid him, and is basically an atomic starch bomb (breads and pasta). And HIS iron is fine?! His brother also gets fewer hours of sleep -- and not nearly as deep, he's more restless -- yet Ryan is a go-go gopher, ESPECIALLY compared to Evan.

I just don't get it. Evan is very "fit" physically -- he is about 95% of height for his age group, and maybe 60% of weight. He doesn't "look" sickly, although personally I think he is paler and at times, his eyes get that watery look (he has a funny thing wherein when he's really sick his eyes get bloodshot and look pink -- not pinkeye, mind you -- just pink. Like he's rubbed them for 2 hours. Right now they look just watery and barrrrrrely pink.)

I asked the dr about mono -- he said we could test for that, but his gut feel is that he would have seen an indication of it in the bloodwork(with a high reading in "atypical lymph", I think? WHich was only 1 out of a 0-9 normal scale.) Not sure if I should have the "official" test run or not -- after all, if he had mono, there are no meds for it. Dr. felt he didn't have any spleen enlargement or anything like that (eyes aren't yellowy in the least).

I have even considered that maybe there is something psychological at play here... maybe something happened at school, or he's depressed or something? But if so -- I'm not making any headway getting to the root of it. Oh we've had some grand talks, I've tried filial play, I've tried YOU NAME IT -- and to be honest, he sure seems to be... well, honest! With himself and me. His teacher thinks he's just swell (his grades are as good as ever, made Principal's list with all A's again this term), he has friends, he is social, I just can't imagine what it would be that would have him "down".

And so I keep coming back to something medical. My DH, by the way, just doesn't see any of this. He feels Evan is fine -- just tired cause he's tired. I felt that way about Evan for a long time too -- but now I think it's been TOO long. Plus -- my son has recently been asking for me to "help him feel better". He has asked me if there was a medicine that might make him feel better, because "Mom, I'm just so TIRED all the time." We do not over-schedule him -- he has one sport and one extracurricular (scouts). The basketball season just ended for him last week, and scouts will now die down as it usually does in the spring, so really, he's coasting along for the past week or so with nothing to do BUT rest! We even had a 2 hr delay today (snow) so he got to sleep in. And STILL he complained about being tired. And he has funky pains he complains to me about -- leg pains, back pains, headaches. When I ask him to put them on a scale of 1 to 10 (he puts strep at 9), he puts his aches and pains at about a 3. What do I make of that? ANything? NOthing? AUGGGHHH!

Honestly, I don't know whether to pull this kid off the couch or back into a drs office. HAs anybody else had a problem like this? I do NOT consider myself a hypochodriac, but I just have to wonder if I'm missing something here. I would hate to think that if my kid has a legitimate medical reason to be feeling this way, that I just looked the other way. On the other hand, what if he is (unknowingly) doing this out of a need for the attention? And if there's nothing wrong, what then do I tell this kid when he complains of fatigue? Go to bed? It's all in your head? Not sure I can do that. But then, I'm not sure what to do, period!

HELP!

(And sorry to make this soooo long... warned you, I have no control.)

 

[clutter]

Two thoughts:

1. Allergies

2. you said he had a respiratory infection in Feb. I have chronic sinus problems, and one symptom I've learned to recognize is tiredness. Two types, one is that I just don't feel like doing anything, and I feel a mental whine when I have to, the other is sleep. Generally, I'm a borderline insomniac. When I fall asleep during the day, sleep through the night, and still feel like I could doze off in an instant, it's generally a long-term infection.

Of course, you can do nothing unless you take him to the doctor.

 

[Planogirl]

Stay after the doctor. I was always a tired child without anything being wrong and now I'm a tired adult. But this sounds like it came on rather suddenly. It's not necessarily a big deal but it would be nice to know why it's happening.

 

[julia & nicks mom]

I would sit down with your Doctor and really talk about it - my kids are little but my instincts are always right

Julia had seizures at birth and everyone told me I was crazy - I was the only one who saw them and her eeg was normal - two months later they found out the report was read incorrectly - luckily they stopped and we have had no problems with them

Julia had 9 ear infections and at least 3 times I took her to the doctor and they said no only to have me return two days later and she would have one

Nick has a dairy allergy - the Doctor told me his tummy was just sensitive - i kept going back until someone listened to me - I was right

my point is - the doctor sees a snipet of what is going on - you see it all (I am willing to bet even your DH doesn't see everything you do) - your doctor can only rely on what you tell him - so tell him everything - make him listen to you - I think a mother's instinct is the best medical opinion out there!!

 

[poohandwendy]

Another thought: growth spurt. My kids always seemed to be a but more worn out when they started a growth spurt. It just seems like it takes alot out of them. And that is just about the age my DS (now 15) had his first major growth spurt. I noticed it started with him outgrowng his shoes fairly quickly. but I am sure all kids are different. (I mention this especially because you mention aches and pains, which mine all went through with growth spurts) There also is the hormone fluctuations that he could be just starting to experence.

I dunno, if the doctors feel he is ok, I think I would wait and see if he has any other symptoms that could point towards an actual medical issue.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I also wondered about allergies and also sleep disturbances. Are his tonsils enlarged; does he grunt in his sleep? Very unlikely but sleep apnea interrupts REM sleep so fatigue is common. I know you said he eats well but does he take a multivitamin?

How do hormonal changes influence 10 yr olds (my kids are younger so I haven't hit this stage yet). I would think that his body is undergoing lots of changes and growth so it would probably be normal to be tired as long as everything has checked out medically. It's reassuring that he's doing well in school, I'm sure the age also brings lots of social challenges. It will be interesting to hear what other parents of kids this age have to say. Good luck.

 

[gopherit]

Of course, you can do nothing unless you take him to the doctor.

Thanks for responding -- Unfortunately, I feel sometimes like I can do nothing AFTER I take him to a doctor, either, lol!

I took him 4 times in less than 2 mos -- once for the strep, once for a physical, again for bloodwork, and again, after the bloodwork. At the first visit, he rec'd an antibiotic, which we completed. At the 2nd visit, we were told of a possible low iron issue (we also had complete phys at that time). Third trip was just the bloodwork and a consult on the data (at which time dr said it "could be allergies" but did not recommend full testing since he didn't exhibit severe allergy signs.)

On the 4th trip, he said ds had significant sinus drainage and put him on an antibiotic. I noted again to dr that ds was very lethargic and in fact hardly budged off the couch on Sunday. He said, "Well of course, Mom! Look at him -- he feels like CROP!" (he has a very distinct accent) So here we are now, about 10 days later, and ds claims he still feels like "crop". I know I can take him back to dr and get a new rx -- I was just wondering if anyone else had a child with similar lethargy issues and was there something I perhaps hadn't considered (besides possible allergies / sinus stuff). He wasn't exactly peppy back in Dec., and that was BEFORE the strep thing, even. Our dr, I should note, is excellent but at times very practical -- he's not one to just prescribe antibiotics at a whim, and doesn't like the idea of testing just to be testing (like testing for mono if there's nothing you can do about it). On the other hand -- he would do it, if I asked him. I tend to agree with him, however, that if the initial bloodwork didn't seem to indicate it, it probably isn't the issue. He did tell me that if a change occurred (like, a fever developed, or nightsweats) to bring Evan back in. ANd he's always open to conversations. I just thought I'd ask around here first.

I'd give my eyeteeth just to have that kid wake up tomorrow and say, "Whaddya know -- I feel good!"

Is there such a thing as chronic fatigue in kids his age?

 

[LisaR]

Gopherit,
I could have written 3/4 of your post. I am going through a very similar thing with my daughter. She will be 10 in May. Her "issues" are happening every 4 to 5 weeks. She has about three days each time when she has a headache, stomach ache, run down feeling. I think she has a virus yet nobody else catches it. She never has a fever or vomits. She says she just feels blah. She looks slightly pale during this time and her eyes look glassy. She complains of leg pain, back pain, etc. but also agrees the pain isn't that bad. This all started after a series of back to back illnesses. Blood work is normal. DH thinks she is fine and that I worry too much. I don't know what to do at this point. Just when I really start to get concerned, she perks up and is fine for a month. She does have sinus and allergy issues so I wonder if it is related? Maybe hormonal/growth spurt type thing? I am at a loss. Sorry I couldn't be of more help but I wanted you to know you weren't alone.

Lisa

 

[poohandwendy]

Lisa,

I would definitely consider that she may be experiencing ''pre''-menstral symptoms. My eldest DD was that EXACT same way for almost exactly a year before her period started. It's like a monthly without the actual 'monthly', sort of like a trial run. My ob/byn told me it was very common. As she gets closer, she may start getting actual uterine cramping too. FWIW, my DD started mentruating a few months after she turned 10. So, she was like that for her entire 9th year. During that year she also developed in other ways, that I am sure you can imagine. Also, moodiness started then too. Pm me if you have any questions.

(sorry to take the thread OT, but your post was just so familiar.)

 

[DisMN]

Gopherit,
I could have written 3/4 of your post. I am going through a very similar thing with my daughter. She will be 10 in May. Her "issues" are happening every 4 to 5 weeks. She has about three days each time when she has a headache, stomach ache, run down feeling. I think she has a virus yet nobody else catches it. She never has a fever or vomits. She says she just feels blah. She looks slightly pale during this time and her eyes look glassy. She complains of leg pain, back pain, etc. but also agrees the pain isn't that bad. This all started after a series of back to back illnesses. Blood work is normal. DH thinks she is fine and that I worry too much. I don't know what to do at this point. Just when I really start to get concerned, she perks up and is fine for a month. She does have sinus and allergy issues so I wonder if it is related? Maybe hormonal/growth spurt type thing? I am at a loss. Sorry I couldn't be of more help but I wanted you to know you weren't alone.

Lisa

I dunno about the 10 year old boy but my heart goes out to you.....such a worry they are at times.

But Lisa, your little girl...I hate to say this to you but it sounds like its possible that she's starting to ovulate. She might not have periods for several more years but still can be having many of the hormonal changes....and it really sounds like that could be what's going on for her, the poor dear.

 

[DisMN]

Lisa,

I would definitely consider that she may be experiencing ''pre''-menstral symptoms. My eldest DD was that EXACT same way for almost exactly a year before her period started. It's like a monthly without the actual 'monthly', sort of like a trial run. My ob/byn told me it was very common. As she gets closer, she may start getting actual uterine cramping too. FWIW, my DD started mentruating a few months after she turned 10. So, she was like that for her entire 9th year. During that year she also developed in other ways, that I am sure you can imagine. Also, moodiness started then too. Pm me if you have any questions.

(sorry to take the thread OT, but your post was just so familiar.)

Ahhhhhh ya beat me to it. LOL

 

[poohandwendy]

But Lisa, your little girl...I hate to say this to you but it sounds like its possible that she's starting to ovulate. She might not have periods for several more years but still can be having many of the hormonal changes....and it really sounds like that could be what's going on for her, the poor dear.

ITA

 

[poohandwendy]

Ahhhhhh ya beat me to it. LOL

GMTA

 

[the kabuki]

Please have him tested for underactive thryroid. At 17 yrs. old I was exactly the same way. Just felt tired all the time, didn't really want to do anything, got at least 10 hours of sleep, but HAD to take naps after school.Was dating my now hubby then and he'd want to go out, go to the movies, etc and I never really felt like doing anything. First doc said that I just needed to start taking a multi vitamin. Luckily my mom went for a 2nd opinion. Saw an endocrinologist who put me on thryroid meds, and within 2 weeks I could feel a difference. I will take one pill a day for the rest of my life, along with yearly blood tests, which is no biggie.

Follow your instincts!!! I can't stress this enough. If you don't think one doc is helping, then see another one, and even a third or fourth if you have to. It's your child, you know him best and mom's have an instinct about these things. Doctor's make mistakes, I have seen enough firsthand to know this to be true. You are only one of many, many patients they see in one day, so to be heard you must push the issue. If this as seen as being bothersome mother, or rude, then so be it.

 

[gopherit]

Another thought: growth spurt. My kids always seemed to be a but more worn out when they started a growth spurt. It just seems like it takes alot out of them.

My MIL and I wondered about this one too, but wondered if perhaps he was too young for that? At what age do some of those hormonal alterations begin to wreak havoc on them? He only just turned 10 in Jan. I haven't noticed any big changes in his height or shoes -- but I guess I'll keep an eye on them!

As for the query from another poster about multivitamin -- yup, he takes one, and diligently. And he's the only one of our trio that does, ironically. (I guess in this case, even the use of ironic is iron-ic!) My other 2 kids hate 'em with a vengeance. Apparently it hasn't affected them -- they had FINE iron!

He also doesn't drink much milk. The dr was concerned perhaps he drank too much milk (which can interfere withthe body's ability to absorb iron once they get past age 5 or so, I guess). THis kid gave up milk by choice about 3-4 years ago, though. Even prefers his cereal dry! Eats other dairy stuff (likes yogurt, occasional cheese, ice cream) but just not a big moo drinker.

Our doc is very much the type who will react to your level of concern. If I demand something be done vehemently enough, he will -- he already said he would run a mono test if I wished -- although he felt it would not be necessary, he would do it, nonetheless. So do I subject my kid to another bloodtest, to satisfy my curiosity? I am just honestly not sure how "concerned" to be -- on the one hand, maybe this is normal. He's my eldest -- maybe it's his growth, or allergies, or sinuses, or the phase of the moon and a gal named Sue... or maybe it's not. ANd if not, what then?

I honestly don't know and THAT bugs the crap -- er, CROP -- out of me. DH really doesn't see this because of 2 reasons: #1, DH doesn't deal with the illnesses, I do, and the kids know it. So it's me they come to when they are not feeling good. And #2 -- DH has a much less critical (some might go so far as to say, rose-colored) view of their health. That's not to say he isn't compassionate when they are sick -- it is to say, he is in denial they are really ill until that fact is proven to him in hard data (i.e., a fever, green globs o' discharge, involuntary emissions from one end or the other or both, you get the idea). 9 times out of ten when I take a kid to the dr, it is done with DH thinking, "Oh, he/she will be fine." Then I tell him, "Oh, she has pneumonia" and he's like , "Really? You're kidding!" and he does indeed feel compassion -- he just had no idea she was that bad off. NAd so I picked his brain tonight -- how did he feel about Evan, about his lethargy, his complaints, his aches/pains, etc? DH feels he's just run down, give it time, he's fine. ANd maybe he is. ANd maybe he's not. And in my head, I say, "Yes, let's wait unti lwe get some other concrete sign of something , like a fever, or such." But in my heart, I just don't know if I can continue trying to motivate this kid, to look past his complaints, if there's any chance that something is medically (or even psych - whatever) wrong.

I guess what I'm looking for, as much as anything, is demogaphic data to tell me if it's "normal" for a 10 yr old to do this, to act this way?

 

[Rowena]

Not in your situation, but in the spectrum of it. I didn't ask enough questions, bug docs enough....you know your kid. If he's not acting like the kid you knew, and it lasts more than a short time which it sounds like it hasn't (and not related to puberty, though I have a 10 year old son myself, and I would doubt that), be your kid's advocate. Don't stop till you get enough...or at least an answer.
You know him more than we do, if there's something wrong, keeping talking to docs until you find one who listens.

 

[DisMN]

My MIL and I wondered about this one too, but wondered if perhaps he was too young for that? At what age do some of those hormonal alterations begin to wreak havoc on them? He only just turned 10 in Jan. I haven't noticed any big changes in his height or shoes -- but I guess I'll keep an eye on them!

I've found that sometimes the changes start to happen on the inside before you notice the growth changes, boys and girls alike. I don't think 10 is too young at all to start noticing moodyness, lethargy, growing pains, stuff like that.

Good luck, it's so hard to know what to do when you're just not sure what IS going on.

 

[poohandwendy]

I've found that sometimes the changes start to happen on the inside before you notice the growth changes, boys and girls alike. I don't think 10 is too young at all to start noticing moodyness, lethargy, growing pains, stuff like that.

Good luck, it's so hard to know what to do when you're just not sure what IS going on.

Again, ITA. Sometimes you figure it out after the obvious changes occur. Then you look back and say "Oh, that's what was going on" That is usually just about the time where they have leveled off and are back to their normal self.

I definitely would keep an eye on him, because you just never know. I would take him to the doctor again if you really feel that this is abnormal. Only you can know what seems just wrong with your child.

 

[justhat]

I would agree with the poster who suggested thyroid testing, unless you got levels from that in the bloodwork you already did (don't remember what you listed). I know a few people who had problems with their thyroid and were constantly tired (and also some with an overactive thyroid who were constantly hungry, not gaining weight, and over-active/hyper).

I had bad sinus troubles and had to end up having surgery 2.5 years ago and am fine now so look into that too. I have tons of allergies and constantly had sinus infections. When I was sick, I was often tired, and sometimes those illnesses came as often as every 3 weeks, so it was like a constant lethargy.

I also have to agree with julia&nicks mom. Trust your instinct as moms are usually right, and your instinct seems to be that something is wrong with your son, whether it be medically or psychologically. If you didn't feel that there was something going on, you wouldn't have posted, or reiterated so many times. I know when I do that with my daughter it means I feel something's there that I'm missing. For example, she was very tired one day last December and I just felt something was wrong. My husband (who's a 3rd year medical student) said she was fine. No symptoms other than being more tired than normal. Well, that night she vomited during her sleep. Brought her to the dr, he said it was a virus, she was fine. Went home and she got a nasty, nasty cold within hours. It was so bad she was coughing and vomiting all night, constantly crying, etc. So she went back to the dr 2 days later. Again, she has a virus, we went home. Another week she was just as sick, back to the dr to hear the same thing. (And we saw a different dr each visit.) Then we went away, she was still coughing and vomiting and it's been about 3 weeks. So we took her to see a dr on vacation, who also said she was fine, but gave us an antibiotic just in case. Our dr at home said don't use it, come see us when you're home, so we did. She had an ear infection. We could have treated it a month earlier, but no one believed me. They said her eardrum was red from crying all day whenever they checked. Yeah! Of course she was crying! She was in pain! For that whole month she just wanted me to hold her all day, didn't eat, talk, crawl, nothing. A few days on antibiotics and she was starting to walk. In the 2 months surrounding her illnesses she only gained 2 oz. (and she was 9-11 months old, so that's not much).

So anyway, sorry to ramble like that, but my point is, you feel something is wrong, so keep pushing to find out. Also, I should add that I'm in grad school to be a child psychologist and I would suggest a psychological evaluation if you can't find any medical issues. I've seen lots of cases of kids with depression and sometimes it's not for any reason that could be easily detected by parents. The strangest, smallest things can get to kids so you never know what's bugging them. And sometimes it might be nothing at all, just a chemical imbalance that you can easily treat (which wouldn't be that odd around the time of hormonal changes).

Good luck to you and your son-hope he feels 110% soon!

 

[dg39]

When my dd was very young, we just thought she was a lazy child. She would lay on the couch and watch tv. She always went for a nap with no trouble at all. She wouldn't even go downstairs without being carried. Thats how lazy we thought she was. She wasn't an eater, but a big bottle drinker. I had to bring my other dd to the dr and my little one came with me. The dr. told me my little one didn't look right. He drew blood on her and at first thought his machine wasn't working. Her blood wouldn't register on the machine. He took her blood 3x's. Finally he told me he would have her blood sent out to a lab and get back to me with the results. That night I get a call from him stating that my dd was gravely ill. Yep, he used that word "gravely". We rushed her to the hospital where she was in ICU for 3 days. Her blood (iron) level was a 4 where it should be at least a 12. To make a loooong story short, after being on iron medicine and a full iron enriched diet, after a few weeks her blood(being tested every other day) went up to where it should be and now at 11 is totaly fine. This may not be the case with your ds, but, maybe its something you can mention to your dr. Good luck to you and I'm sure your son will be just fine.