Leave Carrie Alone!!

[kaytieeldr]

That's easy. No one's civil rights are being violated.

I found this relatively standard definition of civil rights

The rights belonging to an individual by virtue of citizenship, especially the fundamental freedoms and privileges guaranteed by the 13th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and by subsequent acts of Congress, including civil liberties, due process, equal protection of the laws, and freedom from discrimination.

 

[The Orchid]

Huh? If you were to read what I wrote, I said that very few people care about the coupling of homosexuals. That's a completely seperate issue over the question of marriage for homosexuals.

That is untrue. Have you lived your life as a homosexual? If not, then I doubt you have any idea. Many people have issues with gays and lesbians. I live in a very liberal area, and even I have run across overt gay-hatred.

You don't believe this. You're purposely being obtuse.

Actually, she is spot on. I have had friends who had bigoted ideas. I have cared about these people. But yes, they have very ugly sides to them. My dad had racist feelings, and that was very ugly part of him. Yet as a whole, he was a good person and I loved him. He was raised wrong and had horrible ideas put in his head when he was young. He was finally coming to realize his judgment errors before he died, which made me very happy, but he definitely had racist ideas for years and years. Now, if my dad ran for any public office (I would say beauty contest, but I highly doubt that! ), he would not have been a good representative. Anybody who is elected or chosen to win a pageant should be free of bigoted ideas. I don't know much about beauty contests, by my understanding is that they represent their state or country. Is this correct? If so, then bigotry should has no part in it.

Not that it really matters what my intentions were. In trying to villainize the way I wrote that post, you're just removing the focus from the issue at hand. We're too smart to fall for that ol' trick!

Please don't tell me what I believe, or assume that I lack intellect. I'm pretty darned intelligent and am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions - which are generally based on what is reasonable.

I don't post (or say) things I don't believe.

You're also very appreciated!

Have a good night!

 

[TLSnell1981]

Wow!!! Day 3...post #123 and this thread hasn't been closed!!

Actually, and I'm not trying to turn this into a religious debate, the church I was raised in (the Catholic Church) doesn't consider people that weren't married in a religious ceremony to be truly "married" in the eyes of God or the Church. So, while the government does recognize the marriage, those Catholics who get married outside the Church (and don't have a later religious ceremony - since in France they have traditionally had two ceremonies, one of which is civil and one which is religious) are sort of walking a thin line between a "marriage" and a civil union.

My daughter was married in Italy and it's the same way. The civil and religious ceremonies are separate. I've stated many times I feel this would solve a lot. While many do not actively support gay marriage, they really don't care....one way or the other. They mostly don't want it to be forced into their church.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

I disagree. What religion were Adam and Eve? Religion didn't come until later.

Well, obviously, if Adam and Eve ever truly existed (rather than just being a story to illustrate a point as I feel some of the Old Testament stories are) they would believe in God considering He created them and they knew Him personally.
Evidence of a belief in some sort of deity can be seen as far back as cave paintings.

 

[PixieDust32]

LOL exactly

Carrie Prejean, she's the Ms. California contenstant in Donald trumps beauty pagent who said she was against gay marriage. A lot of people think she lost the pagent because of her answer.

Ohhhhhhh her! Well, she wants to be on the spotlight.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Actually, she is spot on. I have had friends who had bigoted ideas.

Thank you. Being bigoted is a characteristic of a person, NOT the person's entire identity - just as homosexuality is a characteristic, not the person's entire identity.

 

[PixieDust32]

Ahh I love gay people, have amazing gay friends, and last time I checked they're humans just like me.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Wow!!! Day 3...post #123 and this thread hasn't been closed!! My daughter was married in Italy and it's the same way. The civil and religious ceremonies are separate. I've stated many times I feel this would solve a lot. While many do not actively support gay marriage, they really don't care....one way or the other. They mostly don't want it to be forced into their church.

I think you're right. I think a lot of conservative churches are afraid that if gay marriage were allowed, they'd end up either being forced to perform the marriages or they'd end up being sued for discrimination if they wouldn't perform a gay marriage. I know there are churches that allow gay marriage (the Methodist church is one I'm pretty sure of) and I see no more problem with that than I do with the fact that Wiccans have their own individual ceremonies, but I don't think it should ever be forced on churches that don't allow it/support it and I can understand their fears that it might be a slippery slope. I can also see some other situations that it might enter into....for instance, should a Catholic hospital have to recognize a gay couple as being married as far as rights to see a patient/make medical decisions for a patient goes when the Catholic church sees homosexuality as a sin?

 

[PixieDust32]

No wonder I don't believe in religion or churches, the manipulation of pretty much everything is disgusting.

 

[PixieDust32]

Double post

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think you're right. I think a lot of conservative churches are afraid that if gay marriage were allowed, they'd end up either being forced to perform the marriages or they'd end up being sued for discrimination if they wouldn't perform a gay marriage.

Neither. You all remember that (somewhat blurred) line of separation between church and state, from one of those ancient documents written in the late 1700s? Well, legal marriage is a function of the government. In addition, no church so far has been required by law to carry out a marriage ceremony that goes against their beliefs. Catholic church is a perfect example. The church does not recognize divorce, therefore priests can refuse to perform a wedding ceremony when one or both parties are divorced. There's no indication that this will be any different if both parties are the same gender.

 

[The Orchid]

I think you're right. I think a lot of conservative churches are afraid that if gay marriage were allowed, they'd end up either being forced to perform the marriages or they'd end up being sued for discrimination if they wouldn't perform a gay marriage. I know there are churches that allow gay marriage (the Methodist church is one I'm pretty sure of) and I see no more problem with that than I do with the fact that Wiccans have their own individual ceremonies, but I don't think it should ever be forced on churches that don't allow it/support it and I can understand their fears that it might be a slippery slope. I can also see some other situations that it might enter into....for instance, should a Catholic hospital have to recognize a gay couple as being married as far as rights to see a patient/make medical decisions for a patient goes when the Catholic church sees homosexuality as a sin?

I dare any hospital, Catholic or otherwise, to try to keep me from my partner if she were sick.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

Personally, I think she got what she deserved. Regardless of the answer she gave, the nude photo scandal should have been enough to can her. But, then she began not showing up to events she was to be at in her contract, and giving unauthorized appearances at anti-gay rallies. She did everything she could to get herself in trouble, and then try to say it was because of her ill thought out answer. She violated her contract multiple times. So, she was rightfully terminated. Now that her 15 minutes are up, she has to find some way to remain in the spotlight.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Neither. You all remember that (somewhat blurred) line of separation between church and state, from one of those ancient documents written in the late 1700s? Well, legal marriage is a function of the government. In addition, no church so far has been required by law to carry out a marriage ceremony that goes against their beliefs. Catholic church is a perfect example. The church does not recognize divorce, therefore priests can refuse to perform a wedding ceremony when one or both parties are divorced. There's no indication that this will be any different if both parties are the same gender.

Of course I remember that line of separation, but I also see the government blurring that line more and more. You're right...so far, no church has been required by law to carry out a marriage ceremony that goes against their beliefs. However, if being gay becomes a protected class (and I think it should be) do you really think that somewhere down the line a gay couple won't sue and say that they were discriminated against because they weren't allowed to get married in the Catholic church (or whatever church)? Being divorced isn't a protected class so divorced people would have no standing to sue and say they were discriminated against.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

I dare any hospital, Catholic or otherwise, to try to keep me from my partner if she were sick.

Sorry, but they'd have every legal right to do so and they'd have every legal right to have security come and remove you if you tried to do anything to get through them. I agree that you should have rights but they should also have the right to practice their religious beliefs. Your rights do not override theirs. Women have the freedom to choose to have an abortion in this country; however, Catholic hospitals and Catholic doctors are not required to provide care after an abortion or to provide abortions. You or your partner would, however, have the right to seek treatment in a hospital not run by the Catholic church even in an emergency.

 

[beattyfamily]

I really cannot believe this thread is still open.

I wish the DIS would be more consistant with their 'rules' regarding religious and political threads.